Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. A researcher’s questions about monastery structure draw out detailed firsthand recollections from Khensur Rinpoche in this 90-minute oral history session. Working through a chronological record of Rinpoche’s life at Sera Je monastery, the interview covers college and district-house governance: the roles of the disciplinarians, how public announcements were structured, and how debate timetables were coordinated between colleges and district houses. Rinpoche explains the khacha gegen system, in which every monk required a personal guarantor who managed his finances and stood surety for his conduct for as long as he remained in the monastery. He also clarifies the proper use of the title “lama,” morning customs including early prostrations, how monks removed their upper robes for debate, and how a teacher’s students shared food and clothing equally regardless of individual wealth. A valuable primary source on pre-diaspora Tibetan monastic life.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 50 RS 1991 06 21.mp3
UUID: 0ca991d9-c92e-477b-9467-c7c8746a77da
Teacher: Khensur Rinpoche
Collection: Rinpoche's Story (Khensur Rinpoche)
Date: 1991-06-21
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 90.6 minutes
Words: ~5,821
So to Rinpoche that I’ve been spending quite a lot of time going through all the those and telling him that I’ve also made a table, which we call chronological table, about his life. So if we could just go through that. I realise we’ll have to go through it many more times, but it’s a start. I’m just reading from page one of section seven, Structure of the Monastery and the Key People. It’s under file, Sera one ed, on my computer.
What are we talking about? We’re talking about the Gigu. He would read and what he does in in the the puja. Think that maybe the Guru Puja. He would read any type of letter that would be addressed to all the monks.
I’ve got clarify, get an example. Oh, I don’t know if that really word. It was a So what letters would the monks receive in in a general way like that that the giku would read? So what was college business, in other words? So the the the disciplinarian The Gegen.
The Gegum would — I mean, the he would would read out an announcement and it would begin with the going for refuge — going for refuge — may the teachings of the Buddha remain long. May they not degenerate. May the teachings of Tsongkhapa not degenerate. Then may individuals such as the Dalai Lama live long lives. And then he would list the patrons, those who were who were making donations to the to the monastery, may their, you know, may their parents be whatever the circumstances were.
For example, if a parent died, may they not be born into bad migrations. May they be may they have healthy lives, may they be born as humans, may they enter into the teachings, and then in this life may all their Dharma activities and other activities be successful without any hindrances. So, the first it was this kind of formal introduction, know, the various going for refuge, where the teachings live long, etcetera, and then announcing the patrons and may they whatever wishes that they the wishes that the patrons were hopeful of making make prayers in to that end. And then from time to time, not always, then they would make very special announcements. Sometimes the disciplinarian would talk about the necessity of discipline and the what what is you know, how they should be acting, way they should be acting, what they shouldn’t be doing, what they should be doing.
They shouldn’t act in contradiction to vows. And then if there was some special work that needed to be done, then he would make that announcement that, you know, at such and such a time and such and such such a type of work needs to be done and to meet their to make plans for any type of work, things like this. But this would just be occasionally. And this is at the whole Sera Je Tsogchum? Yeah. College.
Yeah. The entire assembly at the college. And was there some sort of a similar thing in in the comes and sometimes too? Comes and the. Yeah.
So it was a very similar kind of Yeah. It was the same. But just referring to the actual the actual khamtsens and the It would be the same except for I mean, in general, they had it would overlap, but then they might have specific information for that just that particular khamtsen that district has. And in in terms of time, like, how many times a week, would the comes in have it more often than a a for college, or would it be once a day for both of them? The the reading of this letter?
Yeah. The So it wouldn’t be it wouldn’t be always. It would just be when you had patrons Oh, right. When there was an offering being made. The next thing is we’re still talking about, I think, what the does, and he ran all the various activities.
For example, the debate sessions. I think we’re talking at the the college level here, so I just got a comment. Could you elaborate what this involved? Was there a lot of timetabling? I mean, at a school or a university here, someone such as that would just about all their day capping timetables and moving around flowcharts.
General, same debate timetable is followed every month, so there wasn’t any necessity for them to be disciplinarian to be making timetables only on special situations would timetable be altered. But in general, the class representative would be taking care of the timetable if there were any exceptions which were going to occur. And so the the disciplinarian really didn’t have much to do as far as the debate timetable because in general, it was always the college sort of link in? I’m just trying to get an overall picture with with the the moral disciplinarians for the the khamtsens. Did was their role overlapping, or was it only during the time that the khamtsen had a role in the whatever their college did?
The formal khamsan with the. So each of them were concerned with the maintaining of the rules, and one was maintaining the rules of college, one was concerned with maintaining the rules of the district house, and that’s what they would that was a concern. And then if somebody did something which was contradictory or contradicted, were in conflict with the district house rules, and then it would be the responsibility of the district house, disciplinarian and the opposite, I mean not the opposite, but in case of that was in contradiction to the college rules and then the college disciplinary would be responsible for taking care of it. So they had their areas of concern to meet to be to enforcing the rules of the district and and the college. Right.
So there’d probably be a lot of overlap, but it must just be kind of tradition, which which one So if something would contradict it is in conflict with both the rules of the then each of them would would see to it from their point of view that contradict in conflict with the college and the college disciplinary would take it. If they did something really, really bad, they didn’t So if he did something really very bad, then the and the district could throw him out of the district house. They could if in the case of the college, then the the college disciplinary could throw him out of the college. Could you have a case where a monk gets thrown out of his district house but can remain in the college? So if he’s thrown out of the district house, then he’s thrown out of the college.
Right. Right. So that wouldn’t happen. Right. I’m just just trying to to clear things because So with timetabling for debates and pujas and ceremonies, would the college be the one that had the big overview picture and then the khamtsens would fit in the free time and have their ceremonies when there wasn’t anything occurring in the main college.
The younger young. If there’s a conflict of scheduling, the district can ask permission not to attend, for example, an offering or something like that at the college, and if the disciplinary of the college gets permission, then they can have something occurring at the same time. Uh-huh. If he doesn’t, then then then the district house people have to go to the college. It took all that to get that.
There’s nothing else said. This is just on the bottom of page three. If the monks came early to the morning prayer, they’d do hundreds of prostrations. Is that right? Or just a few prostrations if they came early before the ceremony started?
So they would offer prostrations before the beginning of the assembly, but how many they offered obviously depended upon how early they got If they came five minutes early then they couldn’t offer very many, but some would come fifteen minutes or half hour early and offer, you know, thirty, fifty, hundred prostrations. Oh, that’s great. That’s all I really wanted to clear. That’s fantastic. So I’m up to page five now, and I just want to clarify a bit.
We’ve had some stones making a pleasant sound in the morning to wake the people up. I’m not sure if I did this with you or with Dawa. And it just says on with hearing this call, a person would go around and had a stone, and he would beat this stone. It sounds like it’s singular. And then I’ve got they had a very pleasant sound.
They would hit two stones together. So I just wanted to to clear up a little bit about Was a stone or two stones, how big and where they could be? [To wake] people up. So they’re so they had this big a big a large stone? Yeah.
Very large stone. You’re making, like, it’s about the size of this or so. Is that The. Oh. Double.
Maybe half beside the the surface of the table. Right. And then they would beat it with a small stone. Hit it with a small stone. Good.
Good. Small stone. Do it. Do it. I’ve just got there’s just something here at the bottom of page five about they take off their shawls.
That must be their cloaks, wouldn’t it be? Or the is it a is it that a doggone? Is it what’s It’s called a zen. A zen. z e n.
I’d have to find out. Z e n, but that’s how it’s pronounced. It’s the the upper robe. Upper robe. Oh, is it that this one wrapped around like that one?
Oh, it’s not a cloak at all. No. Uh-huh. And wrap it around. No.
That’s not just that. Sometimes they would wear cloaks. Uh-huh. But they wouldn’t wrap them around. So I’ve got using the wrong word here, hmm.
We all took off these. It should be the same thing, shouldn’t it? No. And they sometimes they did wear cloak. Well, they’re both.
Yeah. They could have been both, but you don’t wrap your cloak around her. No. You don’t. So you sit there you sit there on the ground?
Yeah. So I’ve gotta clear that up a little bit. So it would have been difficult to debate wearing the zen. Is that right? And then the clothes, I would have taken off probably for For the person standing up.
He he takes off his Only the the answer, is it? The questioner. Sorry. The quest The person standing up. Oh, yes.
The answer is sitting Sitting. Front. Yeah. Alright. And is that just so he can Leave it.
Alright. Okay. This is another question I need to ask Gompershade. On top of page eight, the bottom of page seven, generally, would be no prayer session after the morning debates, but on special occasions, there might be one. During the course of our year’s study, we have this period of debate and a break period when there’s no debate.
As I explained before, at the end of the morning debate, both debate and break time, each college would provide tea for its own monks. Was that was it both times? Would do I mean college or do I mean council providing tea for their monks after I think there’s a bit of a confusion between college and comes in again there providing tea for the monks after the debate sessions. Morning Debate session. College.
The college. Okay. And the and the break time in the kamzan, was that the same or not? The the consonant? No.
Mean, if there’s no the Oh, what happens when there’s in the break time, the comes and all the Drehulk comes and has its own little debate sessions irrespective? So during the break time, there’s from time to time, there would be key at the concern, but otherwise, it’d be just in one individual room. Oh, fine. That’s great. I just needed to clear all that.
That’s fine. Now this we’ve got another bit about this this cloaks. Is that a dug up over there, the Rinpochees? Good. And is that the ones that they lie in a line?
They remove out their cloaks, and they lay them in a line to continue debating before they debate. Is that right? Yeah. That’s right. Okay.
So this is definitely one of them. It’s a. So I could get a photo of Rinpoche’s with him wearing it. Would be Mhmm. Better He sits on a cushion in front of the monks.
This is at what at eleven thirty, another bell would ring, and we finished debating. And the abbot might give teachings, but if he didn’t, then the would come. So so, for example, yeah, that the if the abbaton come, then they would have a chanting session, chanting prayers. Oh, right. And the the the Umze is a chanting master.
Right. Yeah. So they would they would chant such prayers as the heart of wisdom sūtra. Right. All of that.
And the. But if the abbot came, then he’d give a little teaching. The temple of. Nice. That’s right.
And I guess I’m also asking, do they sit in the same place, or does he have a higher throne that only he’s The the doesn’t sit on the throne. Right. Does he stand? So, they they chant for half an hour, so he sits, but he doesn’t sit on his throne. He’s he’s just in he sits on the same level as the other monks be.
He sits in front of them. Ah. But the the the kimpos the abbot’s throne would always be there, would it? And he’d only he would sit in. To kimpel Mhmm.
There there. Mhmm. So the the abbot would sit on the throne he if when he came. Mhmm. This seems a really petty question, but I think I’m making a timetable, and that’s why I’m asking and trying to fit the times in.
After lunch or after the midday break, having eaten, we’d all go to the various shrines around the monastery offering prayers. Would that be at one or at two? Or Having eaten. Yeah. So just after so I don’t know if that’s suitable either.
Page nine. At one o’clock. One o’clock? Yeah. Yeah.
Uh-huh. After eating. So they’re doing a call after this. At twelve o’clock, they have lunch. Right.
Good. One. So, Rinpocheh, I’m making little tables, so if I get all the facts right. Can they be really helpful? So let’s get now.
This is Anytime day. It could be in the morning or afternoon, and the students of that particular teacher would ask permission of the Geiger to be excused from debate and attend this. After this, the new students just doesn’t follow who were in three Dudra classes on basic logic would go to their teachers and be taught. Oh, I mean, maybe just check the upper classes could go to their individual teachers at any time. But I guess it’s from the perspective of the teacher.
Does the teacher in in any one day teach his senior classes first and then his lower classes? Just don’t know if my wording here just doesn’t make sense. What was the question? The question is when when the students go to their teacher I’ve forgotten the, you know, Dharma teacher. They might go at any time during the day, the senior classes.
Mhmm. And then it says something about the new students in the dhutra classes would go after the other students. Is that is that is that right? Would would an individual teacher teach always his senior students first and then his basic logic classes? So the day he he teaches the upper classes first.
Oh, yes. Okay. So the the upper classes The upper classes would be would be taught during the course of the day, and then the three dudra classes, they would meet regularly at six thirty, and then he would begin with the upper dudra class and ask them what they were debating on, then review what they were studying, and then he could move on to the next dudra class and ask them what they were debating on, review what they were studying, and then the lower dudra class. So this would last to about eight o’clock in the evening. Oh, great.
Oh, thank you. So the upper classes were had teachings during the course of the day, but the dudu classes had teachings regularly at six thirty in the evening to about eight. Oh, that’s very good. This is good a time to ask, if any. I’m I’m really still on about the monastery versus the the college and the Dharma teacher.
Would the Dharma teacher for a student always come from the same kumsan, or could he come from anywhere in the college? So it was according to one’s wishes. It didn’t necessarily your scriptural teacher didn’t necessarily come from your your district house or even from your own from the college sometimes. Sometimes May would go to Jay and Jay would go to May. So even went to different monasteries amongst amongst the three seats of learning.
For example, in Buxar, they went they might go — a Je student might go to a teacher at Loseling, and Loseling might go to teacher from Ganden Sharze. Some things of this nature. Mhmm. And that was the the student’s choice, was it? The ghetto so so ghetto remember, students came.
He had students from Ganden. Oh. And did they request him to give them teaching according to their liking for a particular teacher, their faith, they would request that teacher. So if we get back I’m always trying to do shuffles in my mind to understand. If we get back to the sort of structure of the fourteen class thirteen or fourteen classes we’ve got with the three dudras and the shunsapa and the pachen and all that sort of thing, If we take the students in, say, the the first dudra class or in the class, would they all go to the same — they wouldn’t all go to the same teachers, would they? So When are the students in classes?
Well, in in one year. In one teacher class, would all the students go to one teacher? Yes. So they would have many different teachers. Then there’s thirteen district houses and each of them had monks who were in the dudu class for example.
And each of them might have a different teacher teaching the dudra to to their particular khamsan students. Right. So one class would have many different teachers. So was it in the debate sessions the only time when that whole class for the whole or whatever come together? Did we just debate?
Just just that debate was the only time they would come together, the entire class. Oh, and then have Me, Sera Je, and Sera May together? Or The debate? Yeah. So they they they have different they have their own separate debate sessions.
Right. So they would be separate, but they would be having them at the same time. So they would have different debate sessions at the same time. Mhmm. Each of these each of the schools each of the colleges has their own separate text written by different teachers that they make use of.
So it was it was just that the time was the same, but the actual programs were different. They have debate sessions at the same time. I mean, not but it’s not the same place. Right. No.
They’ve got their own separate so each college has got a huge debate area, and each comes and must also have its own debate area. Is that right? Smaller. Each of the individual debate areas, each college. So the college odds would have to be huge, wouldn’t they?
Do I have to hold all of mine? I’m just And then the kamsans would be a bit smaller. The kamsans? A lot. Kamsans.
Smaller. A bit smaller. It’s just it’s so different to try and comprehend. So the khamsan gegen was like the moral disciplinarian for the Khamsan, and the Gegum is like the moral disciplinarian for the Tsogchen College. Is that right?
Mm-mm. Okay. If you’re caught not going to your teacher, would it be the or the for the college that would discipline you? Or would it could it be either? It’s the the khamsan petty Gegum.
The Khamsan Gege, Tsogchen Gege. But Khamsan — so, that would be the district house. Would be the concern of the district house disciplinarian. Right. Good.
Now I’ve got here when he he put when he gives him what a stupid question. He had a big stick, and I’ve got lots of wooden. Sometimes I just wonder about myself. The first three classes might assemble with one teacher who would recite all the various definitions which they are expected to learn. Mhmm.
I wonder whether this is in the morning or what. Well, this must be the evening, I think. I think this must be the the evening session. The three dudras would go and have a group group teaching. You know?
I’ve got the gig. Was that this is for the whole college, was it? That been for all the Dudra classes in the college, not the Khamsan? Because I’ve got the Gegum would look around. He usually uses the term Gegum for referring to the college and Gegum khamsan Gegum referring to the to the council.
Then it’s got responsibility of each individual teacher to look around and see if his students were attending. So Rinpoche said it’s for the whole college, didn’t he, all the Dutra classes? I know. So I kinda wanna clear up the individual teachers, the Khamsan Gaggen and the Gegum in in the role at that time with the four or the three dudra classes and whose whose responsibilities and and who gets the blame if the students aren’t there and they haven’t memorized. Gondra touching. So this this this was — this didn’t necessarily take place. He’s talking only with respect to district house.
Didn’t necessarily — this wasn’t necessarily followed by all the different district houses. Tre Khamsan comes in. So Tre Khamsan, they they regular evening teaching Right. For the three classes. Right.
So that that wouldn’t be the same for the rest of the that wasn’t a part of the college role then. It was only the council that did that. Not all of the college. Not the entire college. Not the entire college.
Okay. Okay. So that then it was it would be the Khamsan gegen that would be responsible. But then there was something about individual teachers. If their students weren’t learning well, then they would be they would be embarrassed, and so they would have to do some disciplining too.
Well, maybe leave this for now. I’ll get it. I’ll try and get the question coming up on the next page, page thirteen. When a teacher found out that his students were answering poorly or didn’t know what they should have known, he would tell them to get out and not come back because they were a disgrace to his teaching. So he wouldn’t throw them them out at class.
He would just He’d just straighten out. They would just, you know, tell them that they had to study, that they had to look their tricks. Mhmm. But it it says here that the teacher wouldn’t pass them if they didn’t do well, and the older older students would tell them to leave, saying that unless they answered well, was no reason for them to be there. I think maybe the older students just act as sort of pressure to get them to study, but then if they don’t actually pass their exams, then they might go.
Is that the teacher wouldn’t pass them if they didn’t. At at Sergei they didn’t they didn’t have this policy whereby if you didn’t you weren’t succeeding then you would be held back and you wouldn’t advance with your class. At Sergei that you went ahead with your class, you stayed with your class, proceeding along with them. Some the other monasteries had a policy where you would be held back. Right.
Well, that’s good. I’m really glad I cleared that up because but did the the senior students often try and embarrass the the younger ones if they weren’t studying? So the older students would criticize the younger students and tell them to they should study better. They’ve come a long way and they shouldn’t waste their time. Page seventeen now.
Guess we’re just getting back to actually arrangement of the the Cumsden. Was there only one courtyard? I often say courtyard or front yard. Is there is there only one place of assembly in the Khamsan in Lhasa, or is there more than one courtyard where they’d have debates and khamsan? Yes.
So it’s just — they just the the district houses just had one inside gathering, place of gathering, and one outside place of gathering. They didn’t have many outside. That’s fine. I just wanted to work that out because seem to use different words, and I confuse myself. Fine.
I have this a pic It says I don’t know if it’s today or in the past. Maybe it’s presently. So they have a They have a big they have a big statue of Maitreya Mhmm. At Sera, and this may be this statue. This may but he’s not sure.
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Jhumpa, can you give me a good definition of what I’m of the term lama? Can you define it, or should I have to ask permission?
The Guru. Guru. Guru. Guru. Guru.
Guru. It’s just that it gets used in so many ways, and it seems to be used when there’s so someone in one of the advanced classes could also be called a lama, presumably, could he? Or would he have to have been through past Advaita You have to have great, excellent qualities to be called a lama. Is would you say that that that means you have to be through all those courses, does it, the Lord? Mhmm.
Seems a very That’s not Mhmm. It’s not a No. It’s not a It’s not an officially bestowed title. No. It’s It’s one’s own wishes of one student.
No. No. So it’s other people that might start to call you that. That’s right. When you wouldn’t Which I mean, I I hate to be so blunt, but it’s sort of like a rag bag term.
If you’re not a Geshe and you’re not a rinpoche or a toku, then then it’s quite nice. You might be, you know, referred to as a lama. I mean, I’m trying to get an explanation for Westerners. No. It’s too much referred to one you refer to somebody as one’s teacher, a spiritual teacher as a lama.
But often we say this is where all the Geshe’s and the lamas and the students see. Then there’s three ways that you can then sometimes they refer to it. Now I mean, they can refer to one individual spiritual teacher, but also to reincarnated masters. So those would be referred to as lamas. Yes.
But not an ordinary monk. So, I mean, one can refer to one’s teacher as a Lama, as your Lama? Sorry? As one’s own Lama? Yes.
So that’s one’s individual choice. Right. But generally, to be renowned as a Lama, to be well known as a Lama, then you have to have some kind of excellent, sort of well known, excellent qualities. To have a general reputation, likes the community. You could refer to, even if he was an ordinary person, if it was your teacher, could refer to him as your lama.
Right. It’s just that in the West and in India, every Tibetan is called Lama. Like, Indians just call it Lama jinn. Almost every Tibetan that walks past. The Nipcha Phla.
Tibet What’s that? Eating pa, the So it mixes a bit of tea, bit of pa. Yeah. It’s just that people in the West just call everyone lama or in India, but, you know, just ordinary Tibetans, they call them lama ji, whether they’re male or female. That’s quite funny.
You just said funny. So if I work out some sort of definition based on what you’ve just said, that should clear that up. Mhmm. Okay. I’m gonna age twenty.
I don’t go through as long as I was boy, I was. Is that the term for the material needs teacher? Dreldrel? Dreldrel? Is that right?
Dreldrel. Dreldrel. No. Oh, those pictures are good, aren’t they? What’s that?
Is it just a big? Oh, So it’s called. Kacha. Kacha. K y.
I think we’re K a. K Yeah. C h a? Don’t what this is. C h a.
K ka. And kha means someone who stands surety. Lending the money. Yeah. Someone if you wanna borrow some money, then someone stands surety.
So this in order to become a monk, have to have somebody that will surety for you. That you that you will he he takes responsibility for your physical necessities, that you follow the rules and everything. Yeah. So he’s the he’s your guarantors. Oh.
So this is this this is this person who stands surety for you or or is it have to know him in advance? Yeah. Usually, someone well known is well known to you, who knows you well. If not allowed to stay in the monastery, if you don’t have the the khachak again. Oh, right.
So would that be sort of the role that Rinpoche had with his nephews when they came? So, you have to have at least gotten to the — draw the Yeah. You can become a khacha gegen, before you can stand surety. To the Vinaya. That’s a long way along.
Oh. So you have to before you can be a guarantor Yeah. You have to have at least a team have So when Rinpoche’s nephews came, he hadn’t gotten to the Vinaya class as of yet. He was in Uma class. Oh.
And so his teacher, because of their relationship Yeah. Was was his nephew’s kacha kacha. Oh, I see. He he wasn’t able to. And the the opposite question to that was at what stage did the monk assume his own responsibility, or did he you know, did he have a sort of looking after him until the naya class all the way through?
So even even an older monk has to have a. Really? Right up to where? As long as one stayed in the monastery. Oh, really?
So it never ended. If you didn’t have a khacha gegen, then you couldn’t stay in the monastery. Oh, even There’s no student without a teacher. A khacha gegen. You well, so what’s this dreldrel term that I have?
Is that nothing like? Each monk had only one dreldrel. Dreldrel, mentor? Dreldrel. Just — who was his material needs? Sorry.
It’s not doesn’t seem to ring ring a bell. You use the term pecha pecha. That’s the that’s the scriptural teacher. Oh, right. Right.
Like Pecha. Pecha is the same word. Comes from the same word. Pe means to teach. Pecha, the teaching of the scripture.
Oh, good. Now I’ve got what we’ve got here, no matter how much money a student brought into the monastery, it was distributed equally. The food and the clothing would be shared out equally amongst the khacha gegen’s, all of the khacha gegen students. Like, if one bought five rupees and another bought five thousand, it would make no difference. Can you clarify that a bit?
If the teacher had say five students, for example, if the teacher had five students and three of them had lots of money and two of them didn’t have any money, then when the, you know, the would buy he would supply them with tsampa, with food, with clothing, and they would be given equal out of all their money, they would be given equal clothing, equal food, that they all get the same. Mhmm. Wow. But Rinpoche said at one other time, when he came to the monastery, he he didn’t have to do a lot of the chores of the young monk because he had money to pay for someone else to do them. That was why the Nyapa didn’t like him.
So he was able to to if he could if you could give money, then you weren’t you could be excused from doing work. So that was his case. So one didn’t have to give all one’s money to this kacha gegan? He would give the money to him, but it wasn’t it didn’t become his money. He was holding it for you.
He offered. So that if you had a project, you could go you could go and say, I need some money for this particular reason. Right. And he would give it he would give you it back to you. Right.
So is that what happened? The So, yeah, went through his contract again and said, I’d like to be excused from doing this work, he talked about it with his contract again and he said he agreed. So they took part of the money and paid for a substitute substitute person. Oh, that’s really interesting. So then when that’s beautiful.
It’s so lovely, that butter. So, in the in the case in the reverse case, where Rinpoche was really starving those years when he had nothing, was that the was it the that just kept him alive by giving him a little bit of and so So if we ask him to, he would buy him tsampa, for example. Belongs to Pauline, and she’s transcribing — some started transcribing a couple of tapes of Rinpoche’s. Mhmm. Taped — it’s a tape, oh.
This is when Rinpoche had that trouble as a new monk, and I still need to clarify a little bit about the clapping. Just the clapping rhythms and so he said, dukkor, the white umbrella, and and it clapped. I was it clapped three times quickly, and then we chant some more and clap another three times. But I checked that out with Tenzin, and he seemed to be quite confused, so he said I should ask Rinpoche again about the clapping for dukkur. Mongolian came to India one.
Oh. Is that the it’s not the current effort. Oh. Yeah.