Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. Working through the manuscript of Khensur Rinpoche’s autobiography, this 93-minute session is a collaborative fact-checking conversation in which a Western student and translator untangle the sequence of events in Rinpoche’s early life in eastern Tibet. The focus is the 1930s chronology — his years between Rinda and Darge, the Nationalist Army’s destruction of Darge around 1933, Mao’s Long March forces passing through in 1938, and Rinpoche’s eventual journey to Lhasa with a Chinese merchant. Cultural details surface along the way: the Gesar oral epic tradition, folk songs with flute at New Year celebrations, and regional burial customs including sky burial and cremation with relic observation for lamas. The session ends with a brief check of Rinpoche’s preliminary practices before his three-year retreat, including Vajrasattva recitation counts.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 35 RS 1988 11 12.mp3
UUID: c581523e-e6ee-434b-a275-d3c46ea658ea
Teacher: Khensur Rinpoche
Collection: Rinpoche's Story (Khensur Rinpoche)
Date: 1988-11-12
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 93.5 minutes
Words: ~4,801
With his uncle in in Chamdo. Mhmm. But I’m I’m a little bit confused about when he was in Dage, when he was in Rinda, when he was in Chamdo with his uncle, when he came back to to Rinda, when he went back to Dage, when he left for Lhasa, and when Mao Tse Tung’s army came through. I just just wanted to just clarify. I’ve started off here, page forty.
Nineteen thirty eight Mao Tse Tung started to rise to power, and then Mao Tse Tung and his army came. Could be interesting if we could get a little bit more on that, but there may not be anymore. I think Rinpoche was in his village that time, was he? Just just to check on that. Nineteen thirty eight.
In time, when she was there In Brinda? Yeah. That first time? No. Yeah.
First time. No. No. So that that must have been at the time of the long what they call the long march. Nationalist’s long march, was. So most of them first went to study in Russia, and then he came back to China, and then he tried to, what I call, influence the people saying it would be good to bring communist idea and government.
And he started going wrong, but somehow the people protested. And it’s not very clear whether which people protested in support of him or against him. Anyway, at the time, nationalist, they they were in control, so they expelled members of this body, and they had to escape. So they came at that time to Darge. Now just technically, you know, we’re talking about the coins.
Rinpoche said that was actually just under Chinese influence. So if one was looking at a map in the history book of that period, would Rinpoche’s area be within the Chinese side of on that map? Mhmm. It’d be under Chinese. Me because I got an idea.
I think it’s best to look into That’s alright. Sorry. Yeah. So, no, that’s fine. Saying, it’s not very sure, but afterward, saying perhaps post nineteen fifty nine, there has been a lot of maps produced by Chinese showing the areas they occupied.
Mhmm. And even the whole Tibet is part of China. Mhmm. But there were some talks like there were early old maps produced by Russian showing Tibet Oh, god. A separate.
But still in old notes, we see Tibet separate, but not in that area. Yeah. Yeah. I was just really looking to identify by Chinese names. There’s a lot of history books in English on the long march, and I just wanna but that describes you.
Gotcha. Yeah. It would you just ask Rinpoche if if we could just try and clarify dates and where he was at which time? So he he lived in Rinda, then he went to Darge. Then around nineteen thirty three, the Nationalist Army destroyed Darge.
Right. Thirty three. A year or two Yeah. As being monk in Chinese at Yeah. Yeah.
So it should be around thirty three, thirty four. That’s alright. I understand up to that far. And then he went back to Rinda, and he studied with Ganden Rinpoche. Mhmm.
And he said he stayed there till thirty seven. On that time, the Chinese were destroyed by a group of nationalists under Chiang Kai shek. So it was in Mao’s movement. No. That was earlier.
Yeah. I understand that. What I’m a little bit confused, he says that he studied with this golden rinpoche, and I stayed there until nineteen thirty seven. And in the winters, he would study. In the summers, he spent with his father on the herds.
And in this part, I’ve got nineteen thirty seven. And then I’ve got in nineteen thirty eight, I returned and stayed at my home, but I already got he was at his home in nineteen thirty seven. Mhmm. So when did he go with his uncle to Chando, and how long did he stay with his uncle in Chando? So this one is saying when at Darge, Rinpoche stayed till nineteen thirty seven.
Yeah. And during those time, he sometimes go back to his house. Well, it’s all the same village you see. One’s up on the mountain, one’s down with his father. So he spent time, some months with his father and some months with.
Ganden Rinpoche. And after that, how did he? Well, then I said, I’ve got I returned home, but that wasn’t his home. So I don’t understand why I I feel as if I’ve got something not quite in sequence. I returned home, but that wasn’t his home.
Mhmm. And I and I worked in my home. I’d help with the plowing and planting. So this could be saying, retreat cave happened. So this is the which is a retreat place.
It’s about half an hour from home. And during winter, which I would go up there and study, and I’ll to the house. I’ll I’ll I’ll go to the Maybe if we can just talk about when Mao Tse Tung came, because I think that’s when the where the problem is. That was must be after that. Was it because Mao Tse Tung came that he then went with his uncle afterwards to Chamdo because of Mao Tse Tung’s army?
They ran away. So what when when did Mao Tse Tung come? Nineteen thirty eight. And then Mao’s army, and they they came, and they already returned. And after, they returned back to mainland or wherever they went.
Sorry. The army returned back to China again. Is that what you’re saying? Yeah. So wherever they or they went, they returned, so they returned.
So after that Rinpoche went to Chamdo with his uncle. Right. Right. Right. So it’s after that.
It’s after that. Yeah. So he had this many years in in Rinda with his with the Rinpoche and with his father sort of up and down. Mhmm. And then the Chinese came.
Mhmm. And when they came, didn’t they all run away for some months and hide in a different part of Kang? Area around around Rinda Ah. For some months. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Came. They went to that area. Mhmm.
Then they returned to their home village. Mhmm. And then after Rinpoche went with his uncle to. Oh, that’s good. That’s good.
So was it any any connection with Rinpoche going with his uncle and the Chinese invasion, or just happened that that happened about the same time? Didn’t didn’t have anything to do. Right. It’s just Remember to see his uncle in Chamdo. Mhmm.
I just got the two things in the one chapter, and I wasn’t sure how to link them together in in some sort of sequence. But I think the sequence is just the date being nineteen thirty eight. So somewhere here, we’ve got Mao wasn’t a simple person, and then you’ve made a note the Tibetan word must be humble. So maybe if Rinpoche could just elaborate Mhmm. We get the right words about Mhmm.
His impressions of Mao at that time. Time. Mhmm. What people in in camp thought of Mao at that time. Mhmm.
And then later on, of course, when his holiness went, he had a different impression. Then the the more. And what else fall after that? Mao wasn’t a simple person. He was an evil person.
Mhmm. It says later in fifty four when his holiness went to China, afterwards, his holiness said to Rinpoche that Mao had said all the Dharma and teachings of Buddha were no good blood poison. But Rinpoche says at first, I thought that maybe Mao Tse Tung was a good person. So I was interested in those first reactions of the Rinpochees and the people in bit more detail. The the They didn’t even they didn’t even say the Chinese.
They just escaped away. But some people who remain remain in the village guarding the houses, they told so many Chinese king. I just said, Rinpoche must be talking about so a report talking about how his holiness felt about law settlement. His holiness in Beijing over when in fifty six to China. Mhmm.
So first time when his holiness saw, I’ll call it Mao Tse Tung, his holiness was supposed to have said, there was a talk in the religion everywhere. And his holiness was supposed to have said, oh, that he felt most of them was an old elderly person with great experience. But afterward, when his holiness was about to leave for Tibet returning back. And, again, he had another with his mouth. And then said, religion is poison of the people.
And then his whole plan is something bad. Mhmm. So should we still say Mao wasn’t a simple person, or should we say he wasn’t a humble person? Or what word should we say? So we can record skip that because haven’t seen at all.
Yeah. So or I could just say from what I heard. Yeah. Yeah. I could just insert that.
Yeah. Or Page fifty one. This is just a a word, I think. No. No.
Maybe we’re talking about when Rinpoche goes to Lhasa. Mhmm. But I just wondered before I check on this word, he was in Chamda with his uncle, then he comes back. Mhmm. Does he come back to Rinda or to Dage or to both?
Mhmm. Then he goes to Lhasa. Returning from. Oh. And before going back.
Oh, right. Yeah. He was there for one year. Yeah. Oh, I didn’t realize that.
Oh. Yeah. Oh, good. So my account says my uncle didn’t accompany me to Lhasa. He had work to do, so he stayed in Chamdo.
Does that mean his uncle, he came back from Chondo alone? Rinpoche did. No. From what? When when Rinpoche first came back from Chondo, did he come back with his uncle, or was your uncle stayed there and he just came on his own?
Chumdo. Right. So he was going to see Chumdo. So how did how did he travel to Chumdo, and how long did it take? He must have gone with someone.
About it takes about one month. To get there? Yeah. And about five people together, and they’re normally called the moving persons of Darge Monastery. Oh.
So yeah. And they have to along with them, they had about thirty soldiers. Mhmm. About thirty horses and minions. So I’ve got I’ve got trill, but that doesn’t seem like a word, and you said could be dray.
Twenty something. Yeah. Would that be minions? Yeah. They muse.
Yeah. Muse. So dre. Dre? Dre.
How do you spell? Dre doesn’t have any. Dre is the close in d r e hyphenate a. I’ve got t r I l. T r r l.
Best. No. No. Okay. Okay.
So that is that might be enough for today, is it? Yeah. I’ve got some more few more questions, but maybe if Rinpoche has an hour on Sunday, I could just ask. It’s Sunday, the twelfth of November nineteen eighty eight. Hear long and pleasant story, then the best story is once upon a time, there was a long tree on which is a with a pleasant walls.
So that’s long stories. The parents would tell them, and that happens even now. It’s gorgeous. Yeah. Same thing.
You know, my mother, she she was very old. She was eighty six when she died. She tells me a story too. They used to say in English, it was a dark and stormy night. Oh, I’ve forgotten what it was.
And something about the sea, and the captain said to and the stormy ship was on the sea, and the captain said to Antonio, Antonio tell us a tale and this is the tale story you know Antonio told and you just keep repeating that again it was a dark and stormy night and the captain said to Antonio, Antonio, tell us the tale, and this is the tale. It goes on and on and on. Same sort of thing. Mhmm. Mhmm.
That’s like a Yeah. So did Ramesh hear all those when he was a child? Well, it’s easy to memorize, and many people can sing in our So it says, I will call it song about whole. The king talking to his minister about the strategy, and then minister applying back. So all being said by the people who yeah.
And whatever king says, it’s the same. And then the whole minister replied back. And then they what call then they will the whole description about how they hold their weapons and how they start fighting with the enemy. Yeah. And there’s a whole lot.
So it’s like a dialogue to Yeah. Dialogue. That’s right. And just different person sing with two different parts or same person sing? I can be vocal mixed with other people.
So other people sing the other part at one and sing sing the other part. No. No. So it would depend who was there or maybe would do his did his auntie tell him these, or was it men that sing these songs or women? Oh, there’s there are a lot of text, scriptures.
So is monk uncle. Oh. Told to. You read these, then it will help you read the actual dharma scriptures more better. So, yeah, as a training, it just She wouldn’t say Jampa.
Important in a whole. It has all these special eyesight and special galloping part. Uh-huh. And it can circle the whole three rounds. Is this is this the part of the?
Yeah. All of. Yeah. Know what you’re saying. I should get.
Okay. Nowadays, they produce home songs together with pic pictures and big big pictures in a book form. Mhmm. And they send it on market. Mhmm.
A lot of westerners in the past, they they used to buy. But now there’s, of course, English translation. Mhmm. I think there’s one outside. Mhmm.
A bookshelf I might buy. So Kate’s story is that one. Mhmm. Long kiandas, pleasant words. Regarding king queen stories, there’s not much point in those stories.
But he had lots of stories about kings and queens of Tibet or come. Oh, just Just old stories. Yeah. Like, old people, talk about past things in Queensland. It can be general and some other.
Yeah. Yeah. Good. That’s did do they were they big big singers? Did they sing many songs?
Just ordinary songs in his village, or were they mainly parts of the saga of Gesar? Do they come at a special time of year or any time? So mostly tall dance and horse races. Those things only occasions like a celebration after completing new meal fasting. Uh-huh.
And during the New Year. Uh-huh. Just only on those occasions. How many how many times a year would that happen? It’s only perhaps mostly on today and fourth month.
Mhmm. And that’s the that’s the time of which which people call which is the in in the fourth twelve month, there is a time and day which is when Buddha got enlightened and turned turned the wheel of Mhmm. Down. Yeah. And it is safe that they any residing or many things can have multiplied, benefit hundred thousand times.
Mhmm. What sort of instruments when they are singing? What sort of music? Not many instruments. Mainly flute.
Flute? Yeah. Yeah. Sing songs will have to be songs are are sung through mouth. So singing voice.
The voice Mhmm. And the flute. Yeah. And the flute. And they have to wear wood clothes.
Bamboo flute, Yes. He did? Ah. So maybe then we’ll ask about the the burials. Mhmm.
In Lhasa, they had the sky burial, and then that film, Nando, they had the same sky burial. Was that the same custom in Rinpoche’s area, or did they have different custom? So in languages workplace, mostly it is what I call giving to giving to the virtues. So I I try to clarify because in English, we say, and it seemed to the meaning of the whole thing. It’s not a good word.
And I asked what would be the appropriate to the traditional route. So the nearest is generosity to the vouchers. That’s the nearest route. So in that case, principal’s name is just to put cut it and give to the worshippers as the Cutting the worshippers. Yeah, cut them all.
And worshippers, the worshippers, supposed to have a special connection whenever there’s a rat meat being cut or Red meat. Over there. Yeah. And special rainbow. Rainbow?
Yeah. Special rainbow. So, what is rainbow? Special rainbow emerges and attracts their eyes. From the red.
Yeah. From the red. And they can know where where the red meat meat is, so they can’t so people cut it. Or happens generosity to the fish. In this in this case, the body is, you know, thrown into river.
Uh-huh. But in the case of a person dying of very bad chronic disease and epidemic disease, in that case, because there’s danger of killing the watchers and face, so it’s buried under the ground. Oh. So that’s only on those cases. And with with the generosity to the fish Mhmm.
Would the the body just be put in whole, or that wouldn’t be cut up? Sir, Rinpoche is not very sure because he hasn’t seen any actually, it happened before, but that’s what Rinpoche heard, and what’s fish. Oh. Fish. Uh-huh.
Whereas in, you and in the monastery, a monk sometimes being well, what we’re giving the words with. So before it was given, monks were invited to do specific rites and prayers, so he has gone that’s saying. What I’m what saying. I that’s best burial disposal for the body is a a big fire. Mhmm.
Big fire and then ashes in the Ganga in Ganges. Mhmm. Is which would be considered the best for Tibetan then or someone from Wimshah’s area? You know, with the Hindus, it’s only because those who are around river Ganges, then they can then then they can really do what they what they believe. And in their beliefs, river Ganga is considered as a god.
Mhmm. And they think because it is god, if they wash bath in it, then sins get washed, and also then buried or burnt ashes. They throw in their grief. Yeah. Our sins get washed.
Mhmm. Well, every Indian or Hindu, they can’t afford or they know that form. Mhmm. For today, maybe giving towards your system best. And in the case of special case like lamas or a hot person, then perhaps do this specific, what I call, cremation lines.
Cremation? Yeah. Cremation line. And then that it’s not called ashes, but it’s called the, you know, body representation, and that thing is installed in there. This would be a lama that become like a Buddha.
Mhmm. So the body is not. Is that what you say? Any lama. No.
Any lama. No. Then it depends. Not not necessarily quite completely realized. No.
There is a possibility of of finding their reincarnation next time. Yeah. Continue the language. So in that case, you know That would cremation? Yeah.
Cremation. Well, in that case, there’s a whole lot to whole lot to, what I call, observe regarding the way smokes go, regarding the regarding the actual fireplace, there would appear a lot of different signs and indications about the post of birth or the reincarnation. I know in in in a tradition, you call him a young. Mhmm. If an dies and then he’s cremated, then they can tell if he’s realized because there’s a pearl.
They say there’s a pearl in the ashes. Mhmm. That means he’s Yeah. That happens to to many lamas, but in our case, we call it relics. Oh.
Uh-huh. A bone. It’s basically a bone. Just lived from. Yeah.
Like in Sanath in Yeah. So I think Rinpoche was referring that when he talked about there’s observation to be done about where smokes go, you know, more natural fireplace in the ashes. So similar. Yeah. So where we saw in that film where all the animals were being buried in that pit, was that true?
That they would bury animals or people if they had some sort of disease. They would do something like that. Somebody told me that wasn’t correct. They wouldn’t do. Mhmm.
Remember? One, it’s just a bit of old and Mhmm. Because there are some who are not completely dead and still being buried. Oh. And whereas in to and there are cases that animals do have epidemic disease Mhmm.
Called the earth disease. Earth disease. Yeah. And in that case, they die off of the disease, and it’s quite dangerous to eat the flesh. Yeah.
Yeah. So in that case, they they do worry. But only when they are dead. Not before. No.
No. Don’t understand. Chinese do polka. That’s right. So the last question, if Rinpoche could just comment a little bit on relations with people in his village and around that area and and Chinese people in relation to the fact that he went to Lhasa when he’s going to see her with a Chinese merchant.
So there must have been some good trusting relations as well as some bad. Oh. Right. There are occasions when Chinese merchants or travelers pass through, and in that case, they hire and And whoever owns the horses, they might have to go along with that horses, with those. And So when the case, it was because had had been doing business or, you know, business.
So and that Chinese was also a business person. So there had been some, you know, some sort of connection through business. And, you know, with that, she came along with. So they would have known each other for some time. Not sure.
No. It just seems a long and dangerous journey to trust for a young a young monk to take. Mhmm. So many other people, many other Tibetans traveling with him? Long past.
Like, have long we’ve got nothing to do with communist and nationalist China. Just real traditional old Chinese. Trade is? No. Traditional old Chinese.
Real old form. Who hasn’t got anything to do with nationalist or communist China. This is this is the people Rinpoche’s Yeah. Traveling with? Yeah.
Good. Please, Thank you. That should finish all the first part of the story. I’ll just retype that all. That’s the four chapters.
Yeah. No. This one, we got in a lot of trouble in September when I came back and Tenzin was translating and it was all very technical about Rinpoche’s retreat and we only just started. And I was typing this all up last night and there’s quite a few things to check. So does Rinpoche want to start that now or leave it and start on Friday?
Has he got some time to go on, or should we leave it till next Friday? Got some time. Oh, which area is fine. Yeah. I can go a little bit. A little bit.
Just to start. We were talking about some photos of Lhasa. I might leave that bit. Oh, just to check the number, this is preparatory to Rinpoche’s three year retreat. Guru Yoga.
Is it was it one million or ten thousand mantra? I think we might be getting confused with that English numbers. It’s a hundred thousand. A hundred thousand. Yeah.
I think it’s better to write guru’s guru’s name mantra related with Guru Yoga. Oh, thank you. Guru’s name mantra, name in capital G. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Mantra. Mhmm. Normally, it’s only called Guru’s name mantra. Mhmm. But because Guru Yoga is fine, Hundred thousand.
One hundred thousand. Yeah. One hundred thousand. Thousand. Yeah, one hundred thousand.
Oh, I had first I had one million, then I had ten thousand, so that’s good. That’s really good. So that was the first preparation. Is that correct? Mhmm.
Saying that that that’s the first preparatory thing I’m checking. So that Guru’s name mantra would perhaps be the second one then? So that that will be Rinpoche’s root guru. I was wondering if you could help me to spell that in English. Yeah.
Yeah. That’s fine. Yeah. Okay. Mhmm.
So I don’t know if. Mhmm. Yeah. That’s fine. Good.
And I’ve got here I’ve got here then Vajrasattva, but I’ve got a check mark. I’m not sure. Is that the third? Third. What’s wrong?
We’re Mhmm. Wondering. Oh, was just thinking. Oh, I’ll Which series? It’s good.
I think it might be in there. At the end of Rinpoche’s book. Yeah. That’d be lovely. Could Rinpoche explain that one in English?
That would be really that would be lovely to have that. The stages? Case, like in that picture, we have to get permission from the copyright. From that book? Yeah.
But we won’t use it exactly the same because there’s many different versions. I’ve got another version that’s not copyrighted. Yeah. So All the poetry is a poetry. We can get someone to draw their own version.
Maybe I’ll The picture. She’s a minister picture. Oh, I see. Yeah. Everything is fine.
You can draw. I don’t in the Buddha House newsletter with Rinpoche and Lama Zopa and Lama Yeshe, you know that one that came and the head was cut off? Denson, you know what? Yeah. Well, where is that one?
Because that one where’s the original of that? You’ve had it fixed. I don’t know. Yeah. Is it is it still got that funny?
Yeah. So when you put it in the Buddha House newsletter, somebody just fixed it a little? Yeah. They fixed it. Did they take another photo of it?
Yeah. I think so. Yeah. So there’s Yeah. Yeah.
That’s good. Isn’t it? Jason here? Very big. So I went down from the corner pain.
Patient in the yes. They call me. We get this clearer? Didn’t do that. No.
What? Carter. Hasn’t he like heels in the tube? Carter. Yeah.
Get different. That’s correct. Yeah. That’s correct. Is it?
Yeah. Okay. If you can like, just work out. Oh, the English. Oh, it’s yes.
You’re fine. Like No. Basically, he’s saying, you recite, like, one hundred syllable mantras. And then Oh, so that’s correct. Yeah.
Hundred syllable mantras. Yeah. Yeah. And then you think about your past, negativities, and have a sense of regret and purify them, and make a promise not to get. And then along with that, recite the mantra, the act is coming from body, your crown, feeling your that’s good.
Yeah. That’s good. We got it we got it right. Yeah. Alright.
Great. And how many times for that one? I believe you did it on because it’s sorry. And did the So, Rinpoche recited one hundred thousands, and on top of that, he recited ten thousands. And on top of that, he recited one thousand.
And on top of that, he recited hundred. And on top of that, he recited another one round of rosary. But that’s why it happens is because as a requirement, when you recite one hundred thousand, there’s possibility of misspelling of extra and, you know, missing some parts. So to top those up, you have to recite ten percent extra, for which hundred thousand is ten thousand. And then for ten thousand, it still is possible you have done something extra or less.
So ten percent is one thousand and then hundred and then another. Oh, Is that the is that the case for all of the others? The the first one and the second one? So because Rinpoche was busy and his guru advised him to work with his students, he completed five preliminaries instead of nine before commencing. Is that correct?
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Actually, in that case, in the other one, Rinpoche says Rinpoche’s guru requested that, for the time being, recording activities need to serve the students.
It’s more beneficial if he emphasized his energy and time to teaching Right. The students in their monastic, you know, syllable, like monastic course and their studies. Yeah. So that was part of this. Sure.
So that’s more So you’ve already done this Yeah. With Rinpoche? Yeah. Would it better preliminary whole lot. It be better to get that from you rather than go through Rinpoche?
In that case, yeah, it can be good, you know, to see which part you can import from there. So can you ask Rinpoche if that’s alright? Then we don’t have to Mhmm. We want to go to the left. Mhmm.
And then to