Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 96-minute oral history, Khensur Rinpoche traces his early life in Kham from age seven, when he spent afternoons shaping tsampa dough into small animals alongside monks preparing ritual tormas at Dage Gompa. He walks through his daily monastic routine — rising late while his uncle circumambulated, sharing lunch of dried meat and yogurt, sitting still through hour-long afternoon pujas — before recounting the political quarrel between a monastery official and a lay official that eventually brought a Chinese army to burn the monastery down, which the young Rinpoche watched as a column of smoke from a distant mountaintop. The session then follows his return home to Rinda, lessons in Tibetan alphabet and grammar, and years at a small school under Ganden Rinpoche where he memorized White Tārā and Green Tārā prayers, Lama Chopa, and the Mañjuśrī mantra. An intimate conversation conducted through a translator, suited to anyone interested in traditional monastic life in pre-occupation eastern Tibet.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 04 RS 1988 11 10.mp3
UUID: 8953b60a-b720-4d11-a20c-7b313404c295
Teacher: Khensur Rinpoche
Collection: Rinpoche's Story (Khensur Rinpoche)
Date: 1988-11-10
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 95.6 minutes
Words: ~4,800
Mandatory that they go to the one of the three monasteries for at least three or four years. Otherwise, they would never become someone. Someone who only stayed three years. At Sera, they had to stay four. Some of them remained there and became Geshes, but most of them, after that period, they came back to, for example, Dage Monastery. Then if they hadn’t done that, then they would never become highly respected.
Wow. Like, it was very necessary if they were going to become highly respected in their own district, then they had to go to the Lhasa Monasteries for three or four years. So how long or what were the first things Rinpoche did? How did his life — yeah, could he just describe his day in his life or his, you know, sort of his pattern from when he went there at seven, when he was first there before he went to Lhasa? At the age of seven.
So at the age of seven, he didn’t — because he was little, he really didn’t have much work. So he would play nearby — there was a place where the monks perform offerings. Mhmm. And so they used to prepare these ritual cakes. Mhmm.
tormas. Mhmm. So he used to always go over there and learn how — and they used to show him how to make the tormas. How to make these ritual cakes. So with the flour and the butter?
That’s right. And so that would be nice. He’d be chatting with the monks and having fun, would he? The tormas. Drinking lots of tea.
Yeah. Because he was little, they used to like him very much, and they used to play games with him when they were showing him how to make the tormas. What sort of games did they play? It’s easy.
So he used to make little animals. Like, out of the tormas, he used to make like goats and sheep and horses and things like that, model them. Yeah. He used to make — that was one of the games they played, making these animals. Yeah.
There’s an — they didn’t fry them or anything like that. They just made them. Yeah. When I was in Sydney, Sewang had this scorpion, and they made them when they were frying animals for their Tibetan — some Tibetan ceremony that they had, and he said that was a protective thing that they always did first. Was it something quite different?
So, yeah, they just — now they have all over the floor, these little animals. But they just made them — they were just made out of this tsampa, barley flour. But they weren’t fried or anything. Yeah. Were there many young ones about his age when he was first there, or was he one of the few very young ones?
There were lots of little monks. Did he get to know them all very well or just a few? Ah. Was it? They became good friends.
Any idea about how many there would have been at around about his age? Yep. With you? Yeah. Fifty?
Or — they would come and they would become a monk. And then they would go back home. Oh. Most of them would live in their homes.
Oh, they didn’t live in the monastery? Most of them, they didn’t — Oh. They were children then — to monastic knowledge. Monastic knowledge. Yeah.
Most of them lived in their homes. So he was one of the very few that actually lived in there. So maybe some of the teachers, maybe they had two or three monks who would stay with them, then the rest would return to their homes. There weren’t very many young monks in the monastery. Oh.
Most would stay in their home. Can we get sort of like a rough outline of a day? What time he’d get up in the morning, whether he’d have morning prostrations, prayers, whatever. What did — when he was at the age of seven? Yeah.
When he — yes. Yeah. So his uncle, who he stayed with — he would go, he’d get up about five and go out and do circumambulations, but Rinpoche continued sleeping. Sleep. His uncle would come back about seven o’clock.
And then Rinpoche would get up about seven. And his uncle would help him get dressed, and they’d have tea together at that time. Or patsanadi. Patsanadi. You would — that would be — you’d patsanadi.
You’d practice that? After breakfast. Right. Mhmm. Yeah.
First, drink tea. Patsanadi. Then he’d go over to where the monks were making — did their offering ceremonies, and he’d go over there and play with them. Play with them? Yeah.
That — that was — that dramatized, I think. He was like, yeah. He would go watch them and play with them. Then at about twelve, he’d come back and eat lunch. So what would they have for lunch usually?
Butter and — and dried meat. Dried meat. And dried meat. Yeah. Smoked or salted or just dried?
Oh, just dried in Tibet. Well. And and yogurt. And yogurt. It’s a combo.
Dried meat. So would he just have that with his uncle or with a big group of people just in his uncle’s — just the two of — Mhmm. Just the two of them. Sometimes his other uncle would come. He lived in a room above.
Oh. And sometimes he would come down and eat with them. Alright. From time to time. Alright. And then after lunch, what would they do?
Then go to an offering ceremony. It’s a puja. Puja. Offering ceremony. That would last very long.
Like an hour and a half. Mhmm. Did he have to sit very still, or was he able to move around? Couldn’t. Couldn’t.
He had to sit still — he was surrounded by monks. There’d be a row of monks in front of him and a row of — and his uncle and then all the older monks. And so the monks sitting around behind him, so he was surrounded by monks. So he couldn’t just do what he wanted to do. So he had to keep very still.
And he then — was it talking about the old statue of what? The partner with the name of the. So he couldn’t play games, but he used to have some of this tsampa flour, and he used to make things like this. Tell him, my father was like a Christian lama and I had to go to church and sit in a big wooden seat for at least an hour and I used to hate it. Guess I had to draw on paper.
Were they long benches — Long benches. The lama was sitting on — No. No. No. On the ground.
Yeah. Is it? Cushions were on the ground. Oh, right. Because when I was in Tashilhunpo, they had them off the ground about that, and they had long, long rows of them.
But that would be the same as sort of horse hair. The cushions? Yeah. They were long. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then they ring. Yeah.
Very, very long. Right. Must be the same, but his were on the ground. Because sometimes the — so did they — were they drinking any tea during that ceremony or any — it’s all come to the sitting.
Yeah. They were drinking tea. It’s called pa. Oh, pa too. So that might go on from one to one or two or two hours.
Sometimes it’d be two hours, but usually one hour. That was every day? Mhmm. Every day. So what would they do after after that?
Go back to his room. Stay — did he have to learn alphabet or anything? So he’d play around in the room. Got the — so. Alright.
So he just stayed one year. Oh, that’s when — after one year, the Chinese invaded. I was wondering if we could work out what year. Even if we do it in Tibetan terms, what Tibetan year was he born in, and then what year did they come? So nineteen twenty five.
Nineteen twenty five. This is born. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And the December?
The twenty fifth of — yeah. Twenty fifth of December nineteen twenty five. Oh. Twenty fifth of December nineteen twenty five. Just do some.
The towers were in. That towers, isn’t it? Nineteen thirty two. He went — he became a monk. Mhmm.
In nineteen — so one year after he had gone to the monastery, the Chinese invaded and destroyed the monastery. Destroyed the monastery? Did they just come suddenly — was there warning? Could they — and would he — were they able to get away? As much detail as we can get.
So before the Chinese came, everyone evacuated the village, took everything they had, the animals and everything. They moved — they moved away. So they stayed about three or four months in another district. How many hours from — the number — five days away. They buried their possessions in a forest.
In the forest near Dage Gompa? No. This other place where they went. Oh. There was lots of forests.
So all the monks went to Chamdo which is near Lhasa. Oh. Chamdo. It’s near Lhasa, yeah. This is the older monks, is it?
Or Rinpoche. Did Rinpoche go to? So the older uncle went with him and the family in his new district. The other one went — the younger one — to Chamdo. Oh, Chamdo.
They went to Chamdo with the other monks. The younger one. The younger one went with the other monks to Chamdo and the older went to — went — yeah. Went to.
What was the new district? What was the new district — Khunu Nom. Yeah. That’s that’s what I’m hearing. Khunu Nom.
And that’s in Kham. It’s in Kham. About Rinpoche’s family’s house? Was that alright at Rinda? Did the Chinese come near Rinda?
They didn’t destroy the houses. Just the monastery. What was the reason for destroying them? So it seems as if one of the bigger — I’m not sure what you would say. Anyway, one of the important people at Dargay Monastery was having a dispute with another official, and they had a very bad relationship between them.
Tibetan official or Chinese? Two Tibetans. Yes. And one was an official at the monastery, and the other — So he was just — he had — he was having a dispute with a lay official. And some of the monks from Dargay Gompa went over and — oh, they wanted to — oh.
So there was this dispute between an official of Dargay Gompa and a layperson, a lay official. And the monks from Dargay Gompa went to go arrest him. They wanted to get him. The lay official. Yeah.
Yeah. And the lay official escaped to China. And he requested — he got the Chinese to help him — Oh. To get back at Dargay Gompa, and that’s why they came to destroy Dargay Gompa. So they had some warning that they were sending an army or whatever.
In advance? They were — they said they were having disputes for a year with the Chinese. Oh. Did this official come back, or did he stay in China causing trouble? And then he came back, yeah, with the Chinese when he invaded and destroyed.
That great monster. Will Rinpoche know what — was it Chiang Kai-shek, or was that pre Chiang Kai-shek? Was that Kuomintang? Or who was it — was it Sun Yat-sen before Chiang Kai-shek?
I’m gonna have to check out my Chinese history. Cameron. That’s — so that was the name of the man in charge of the army. I asked him who was the head of the Chinese — Galondo. Galolo. Galolo. Right. How far was the Chinese border from Kham then or from Dage Khompa? He never — she.
But he didn’t — he never went to the border, so he’s not sure. But these days, you can go there in one day by car. Oh, yeah. Did Rinpoche see any of the army? Was he around, or did they — was it — did his uncle take him away before the soldiers came?
He must have been a bit disappointed at seven. But when he got on top of one of the mountains, he could see the smoke rising from the burning of Darge Monastery. But he didn’t say — he didn’t say the soldiers. Was he frightened or sad? No.
They came — she — don’t. Did he want to fight them? Yeah. So he was — he had liked staying in the monastery, and he was sad that it was being destroyed. He had to leave. Do they build it again?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I said, so for ten years, nothing happened. Ten years?
And then after ten years, the monks returned from Chamdo to rebuild the monastery. Oh, so for ten years, they were in Chamdo? No. You mean the monks in general? So, yeah, during that temporary period, most of them stayed at Chamdo.
So they must have built some sort of a temporary — So during that period, the Tibetan government gave them an allowance, but they didn’t build it. They didn’t rebuild the monastery. They said individual houses. Tibetan government, this is from Lhasa? So there was a Tibetan government in Chengdu.
Chengdu? Mhmm. So it was a regional government, or was it — oh, I must — oh, gonna have to change his date. I don’t know what they call it. Kuta.
Kuta? Kuta. You know what it — it’s a government position. I’m gonna look at it. Sawa.
Sawa. Sawa. Sawa. I don’t know what that — maybe maybe it’s like a district official. It’s a name of a type of level of official.
Uh-huh. And what’s Sawong? That was his name in particular? Sawong. Yeah.
No. That was his official title. That was his official title. And what that means, I don’t know. But in Chamdo, there was this type of official.
Right. So he’d be a certain level — the highest official representing the Tibet government was there — was one in. One of these. I don’t know what they call it. Yeah.
So the Chinese came and destroyed the monastery, and then when they destroyed it, they left? They left. They left. And then Rinpoche and his family, they came back after about three months back to their home. Oh, so Rinpoche went home to Rinda?
Daughter. Yeah. He came back to his home. So how long did he stop there then? So when they came back, there was someone who recites the sutras or the discourses of the Buddha who was there.
In Rinda? Yeah. Carrying on — in his home. Oh. And that’s when he began to study the alphabet with his teacher.
Oh, did this teacher come specially for him, or did — was it just by chance? He stayed outside. Oh. So, yeah, he came. He stayed a year, but he didn’t stay in the actual home.
Mhmm. He was, in general, just giving teachings. How long did it take him to learn the alphabet? Very important question for you. And what did Rinpoche learn after the alphabet? Mhmm.
And he began to study the grammar. The grammar. Yeah. Does that take long time? So then after that, he was studying with his teacher for six months, and he studied with his uncle for six months.
Oh. Then he went after that, went and stayed with — what was it? Ganden Rinpoche. Oh. Ganden Rinpoche.
He went to stay with him. Who was on the mountain? Yeah. He lived in the village. He lived in the village?
Ganden Rinpoche. It’s a little bit above the village. Probably fifteen minutes above the village. Oh, so not far up the mountain, just a little way. That — yeah.
It’s close. And he would go up there? So then he stayed there at a little school with children, and he stayed there — at at the Ganden Rinpoche’s hill or — the or in the in Ladakh. Yeah. So he stayed there all the time at the school of this.
Oh. They lived in the. So the school — he had to walk up to the school and then he lived there, did he? Or Mhmm. Yeah.
He stayed there all the time. He just returned sometimes to his family house? Some from time to time. Yeah. Here we go.
Not very often. His practice is right. I think he must have been a good student. Love to. Love to.
Yes. I was asking him, when was he recognized as a tulku? Oh, yeah. And he said nobody recognized him. He says, I remember.
He told the story about when somebody was sick and then he peed on the fire. The fire and to the rocks — where then people could say, well, he’s probably a Lama. That’s when he got recognized as a Lama. So before — when he was living in the monastery, they used to play games with the other monks. They used to pretend to shoot guns.
Guns. Mhmm. And then they’d shoot at each other and the older monks would think that — you know, thought they were acting very strangely. Mhmm. And then when the Chinese came and destroyed the monastery, then they thought, oh, well, they had some — they knew what they were doing.
They had some idea what was going to happen. Did any of the monks try to defend the monastery? Did they fight the Chinese? Perhaps, last school. Yeah.
So they had been fighting for one year before the monastery was actually destroyed. They were shooting each other. The monastery? The monks. So religious — yeah.
They were — they had been fighting each other for a year when the monastery was actually destroyed. So they said the monks had long swords. They’re not knives. Because from a long distance, they would shoot guns. If they were close, they’d use their knives.
So the Chinese got many monks and monks got many Chinese. So all the time Rinpoche was here as a little boy playing, there was fighting going on close by. So for that year, there wasn’t — they weren’t — didn’t have any problems with the Chinese — Oh. That he stayed there.
Oh, it was quiet. Yeah. Peaceful. And then after that year, that’s when they invaded. And they were fighting for a year before he was destroyed after he left or?
This is what he heard, that before he came to the monastery, there was all this fighting going on. Oh. But during the year he stayed at the monastery, there wasn’t any problem. But he heard that there was a lot of fighting that had been going on. Oh.
He didn’t — he only heard this. They heard that — I mean, what they said was that, you know, this official, they tried to arrest the man away to China. Mhmm. There was a lot of, like, negotiation going on for a long time, so the fighting didn’t break out all at once.
Yeah. Yeah. When negotiations broke down. I guess. And you thump them.
Same old story. At Dage, was there a village as well as a Gompa, or did they have to be all self sufficient in the Gompa and grow their own vegetables and do all their own cooking? Yeah. So it was a big — it was a very big monastery. Just like a small town.
Right. Right. So there wasn’t necessarily a village or anything there. It was all itself. So within the monastery itself, some of them had office workers, they had traders, they had farmers.
So they were completely self-dependent. These were all — these were all monks. Yeah. Were all monks. Yeah.
I mean, this is very interesting and unusual for Westerners, you know, to — They don’t want to rather stay in the — to — the lay people want to stay in the monastery. Pardon? The lay people would rather stay in the monastery. And then they — so they had cooks and — they do. Then amongst amongst them, they have many different types of workers.
Did they — once they were assigned to a role like that, did they stay in that role for a very long time, or could they transfer from garden to cooking? Like — some of the jobs would last one year or two years or three years, and they would never change. Some of these tasks. Yeah. They never changed.
Oh. Well, that seems reasonable. Would be deadly otherwise. That’s the way they stayed. Did they still continue their practices, their spiritual, you know, or did they spend most of their time actually doing these tasks?
So aside from doing their individual practice, you know, their commitment, they wouldn’t go — they wouldn’t study or go to the prayer seminars. They wouldn’t do anything. And it’s also like a — they would just do their individual jobs. So back at Rinda, he stayed with Ganden Rinpoche at the school for how many years perhaps?
So he stayed there — I mean, I guess he’s talking about initially, but anyway. Yeah. He stayed there the winter? Yeah. And then the summer, went with his father up on the mountain. That’s good.
Yay. So he studied most in the winter? Mhmm. Oh, good. Yeah.
Yeah. Summer’s the time for herding. Yeah. He stayed with his brother on the mountain with his brother. Oh, that’s nice.
Looking after the herds. How many did he have in the herds? Yeah. I didn’t realize it. Yeah.
I thought there might be more — yeah. They just come out. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
That’s fine. So how long did he stay there? Well, in with this pattern, more than one year? So then in the winter, he came back down and stayed at Ganden Rinpoche’s place in Rinda. Some time from time to time, he would stay in his home.
And then he stayed there till he was twelve years old. Oh, with that sort of yearly pattern, the summer with the father. And already — yeah. Yeah. Mhmm.
What — did many other students stay with Ganden Rinpoche? Was he the only one? Ganden Rinpoche, I think. Not — himself had himself and four of the students. Living with him.
They lived with him? Yeah. Stayed together. But there were day students who came in the morning and then they studied, and then they would go back down to the village. Just came for the morning?
Yeah. Mhmm. Were there any girls, or were they all boys? No. No.
He must have become very good friends with the four other boys that lived there. They must know each other very well. Love to. These four other students were — but they were with the relations of.
Relatives. Yeah. They became very good friends. Were they also monks? Or — they dropped out of it.
They were. Were. They were the same. They were of the same age. So he would have started the school especially to educate this — yeah.
Yeah. Said that’s right. Because before, he didn’t have a school up there, did he? He just sat there — before then, there was no school. He began to read the text.
And then at seven o’clock, they’d have tea. Then they’d go outside. Then they’d have — they’d take after that, whatever they’re memorizing, take it to Rinpoche, and he would test them to see if they had done their memorization. So they were playing like they were at Darge Gompa — Uh-huh. And that there are all these monks there in the temples and the abbots — it’s as if they were in Darge Gompa — if that was a very big monastery, they’d play as if they were in a big monastery.
People would come and sit in and say, oh, that’s a very good game because of that type of game. Then the monastery will be rebuilt very quickly. Ah. So did the other four boys come from — so he might have known them at Dage?
They came to Shuktu, Dage Gompa Shuktu, and — no, one. So one he knew one from the monastery. The other three had been staying at home. So they used to say that that was a very good game that they were playing. That’s because of that type of game, Darge Gompa would be built very quickly. And then one year later, they chomped on younger. And then in a year after that, the monks — some of the monks started coming back to begin rebuilding the monastery. Oh. What were some of the — oh, is Rinpoche going to say something?
What were some of the texts that they had to memorize? Were they all sutras and things? Or the land of the land of a hundred joyous deities. Ganden. Ganden.
And the White Tārā, prayer to White Tārā, prayer to the Green Tārā. Lama Chopa. Lama Chopa, the offering to the spiritual master. Yeah. So various prayers.
Yeah. Just prayers mostly. So it’s all — but no text. No text? Not a question.
Mentions. There’s a text. Just prayers. Oh. And the first mantra that they learned was the Mañjuśrī one.
Was that the same for all children or all monks, or was that just because of the particular teacher? So this mantra is learned in order to increase wisdom, so most of the monks — this was the custom. So I was wondering. Yes. Yeah.
And it was good. Should we stop soon? Or if you want to go on? No. No.
That’s fine. Yeah. Can’t keep it. I said okay. Okay to stop or to go.
Yeah. I just said okay. She said, because — what about you? I’m happy to go. Chicken comes in.
I just — time to eat, is it? So before you asked Rinpoche if he had a big hat? Yes. So he sent a letter to Sera asking him to send his big hat. Wonderful.
Ask Rinpoche, is there anywhere we could get any photos of that old Dage Gompa before it was destroyed and the new one, but — the Dage Gompa. But I think I saw — he said it’s difficult, but I think I saw a. He might have a picture. An old one. Yeah. He was at the same time.
Yeah. He was one of his — I know I know about the one who’s seven, but I know before. We could certainly get off the new anyway, could we? So he and after a while, he went to — he stayed at Sera for eighteen years. Eighteen?
In Lhasa? Yeah. Sera Monastery. Oh, this is after he was twelve, perhaps. Yeah.
He didn’t mention exactly. Yeah. But he was — this then replied to your question whether Darge Gompa was destroyed again. And during this period of time, you know, they had rebuilt Darge Gompa. Many monks had come and developed all the institutions again, debating and things like this. It was very vast and extensive.
And then — but then, again, the Chinese invaded and destroyed it. But it is totally completely unused. It became a field — planted for planting. Was that after fifty nine? Fifty nine to sixty one.
It’s being rebuilt now again. Yeah. So these days, it’s being rebuilt again. So some of the buildings are already finished and the residents are monks. They keep building under the same pattern?
Of his monastery. They were about to finish building the assembly hall. Oh, I see. So the incarnation of Ganden Ngawang Rinpoche is doing a lot of work there too. The — was that his teacher?
Yeah. Ah. He could — did things on the Yongsi Day, should we do? Forty. Oh.
But Rinpoche, of course, couldn’t go back. He’s just heard all this, I think, from his relatives — and I’m sorry. You know, hasn’t been back. Oh. He hasn’t been back since he was nineteen years old. Oh.
When he went to when he went to Sera. When he went to Sera? Yeah. It must have been twenty five, roughly forty five. Oh, forty four.
Should I change and go on, or should we stop — as about to run out? Maybe we just — maybe we can stop. We should stop. Yeah. Alright.
This is Sasha. Thank you.