Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 93-minute interview at Buddha House, Khensur Rinpoche recalls his Kham childhood with warmth and specificity. He opens with village governance — how an elected elder held power to fine wrongdoers — then moves through Tibetan festivals: Saga Dawa, Ganden Namchö, and Losar. The Losar account is vivid: barley-flour mounds decorated with butter sun-and-moon designs, pinches thrown to the Three Jewels, and the detail that “Tashi Delek” was once reserved exclusively for New Year. He then covers family history and the Chinese destruction of his ancestral home, before the conversation closes with his entry into monastic life: riding a horse to Dargye Gompa at age seven, too small to walk, becoming a monk simply by asking his uncle to teach him.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 03 RS 1988 11 10.mp3
UUID: 2fef20e3-61b4-4366-a54b-3bdcd9f4c1f2
Teacher: Khensur Rinpoche
Collection: Rinpoche's Story (Khensur Rinpoche)
Date: 1988-11-10
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 92.9 minutes
Words: ~4,355
So he was he was a he was a wife of one of his relatives. And he was Wife or husband? The what did I say? Husband. Oh, it’s alright.
He was he attained it because he had the most power. He was most honest, and he was an elder an elder. So he became the I I don’t know. So it was more just an honor that the person was was chosen from from the other? Yes.
The. So they would have a a meeting, and they would all vote Ah. On this person. Oh, how often would that that happen? Yeah.
The mix low mix. So they didn’t have a specific time that he would serve as the as this as the. But usually in a few years. So maybe four or five years. Yeah.
Yeah. And then she she Yeah. So then after four of us, they’d have a great meeting, meeting, again, they would vote for a new person. Ah. But yeah.
Oh, that’s very interesting. Yeah, he had amongst a lot of power and what whatever he said the villagers had to do. Wonton or whatever. Wonton. Wonton.
I said wonton just means power. What what sort of well, how did this show in what way? Did he did he say when the crops would be harvested and this sort of thing? So he would he would give advice on what they what was they should be doing and what they shouldn’t be doing, what was good and bad. And if someone was doing wrong, then he would punish them?
How did he punish? So he would So he would he would make them do some kind of work. Let me just check. Checking here. Is it then you you would if I think fine them.
Oh. Fine them or make them do some kind of work. Like a? I like it. Like a.
So they’d have to give a certain amount of the half a store or something like that. A tax. Impose a tax. Oh. Yes.
To impose a tax. I don’t know if that would be the same word for fine or not. No. Perhaps can you ask them what sort of tax? Would it be part of their harvest field?
She have to give some money. Oh, well, that’s another thing I would ask about is money. Oh, good. I’ve told him I find this so interesting. Was wanting to ask about different festivals, how the So there there was there was the the first holiday of of what they call Saga Dawa, which is the birth month the month of the Buddha.
Saga Dawa. Saga Dawa. Saga. The dawa, the month of Buddha. Yes.
The just the month of Buddha. Yeah. Then the the turning the So everybody So on the in Saga Dawa during this period and on the first turning of the wheel of Dharma, the the men and women would do a it’s called a nyungne, which is a fasting retreat. Right. Two day fasting retreat.
Oh, all the village would do that? The tongues of a Banga. So all of them couldn’t do it. Just the the older people The older people. Yeah.
Would do fast and retreat. Oh, no. So then the So there is Ganden Namchö, which is the birth and death anniversary of Tsongkhapa. Oh, yeah. Oh.
That was an important festival. Oh. And then the the the birth anniversary of the founder of Sera Monastery. The Sera the g y g y e. So so That would be another festival.
That would be an important So did all of Kham support Sera, or was it just this area that The Kham from Kham at all? The charge of. So and then So from his area, most of the Sera Most of the monks would go to Sera. Ah. So the so they would because most you know, it’s it was most famous in his his area.
Uh-huh. And therefore, they since most of the monks would go to that, then they had a they would celebrate the anniversary of the founder of Rock. Of Sera Monastery. That would be most to her. Different areas.
The most we go to different one of the three different monasteries mostly. Yeah. Different parts of Kham. Yeah. So his area especially went to Sera.
Oh. Yeah. That’s fine. Are there other festivals? Aside from there weren’t any other great festivals.
Could could Rinpoche sort of explain the Tibetan year, how it starts and how the months go and what they’re called in his from his area? So according to each of the monasteries, they might have special holidays, special festivals. The local monasteries, not the. Yeah. That’s kinda for example, For example, the all the Gelugpa monasteries would celebrate the great prayer festival.
Once a year. Yeah. The the monasteries that he founded. The monastery he founded, they would What do they celebrate? His They would they would they would celebrate his this the prayer festival.
Oh, I see. That’s the one thing. Could could Rinpoche go through the year, the Tibetan year from the first month and give the names and just explain, you know, how they The Losar. Yeah. How do they celebrate Losar?
What what day do they celebrate Losar? So, you know, according to the to to the Buddhist calendar, the it’s the the Tibetan tenth month in the sixteenth day sixteenth day of the Tibetan is the actual is the new year. But so this you know, we’re talking about the secular. So the secular year Yes. Yes.
Or the Buddhist year. Well, probably, it’d be good to have both. What about the secular one? The. Uh-huh.
Uh-huh. So, okay, we go by that by the secular month year. Then it begins with the with Losar, the new year. Mhmm. And then the first occasion is Losar?
Mhmm. And you want him to describe Losar? Just go through the just go through the holiday? I would love him to describe because yes. How how what are his first memories of Losar as a little boy growing up in Kham?
So alright. So he’s just he’s describing Losar as when he was a child. That we love him. Yeah. So he gets up and washes.
And then he take the tsampa. Take the tsampa and barley flour Yeah. And add butter. Yeah. And rub it and then add sugar.
Sugar. Then he make a he form form this into. They make them oh, so then it then they make this mound of barley flour, having added butter and sugar to it. And then on this, they would shape the moon and sun. They make different drawings.
Oh. They have drawings on top of this. Draw. On the bowl of I think it’s I think it’s I think it’s stuck. So then then they had this a couple of flat a piece of flat board.
Yeah. And then this, they would using butter, they would make designs, like sun and moon Yes. Different designs. So just So then they would they would take a pinch of it and then make these these various prayers. And then then then they had some special words there.
Tashi, this is where the this they used to only use this Tashi Delek only at this time of Losar Oh. In Tibet. This is and they would put some salt for me, all good things, may have all good things. So really, Tashi has been sort of bastardized by us? The moment, So they wouldn’t they wouldn’t say much aside from the at the New Year.
Ah. Mhmm. Then they would yeah. Then Mhmm. And Offer it to Three Jewels.
These little pinches. Yeah. They just how do they offer? They throw it. Yes.
Do they offer? They throw it. Yes. Oh, that’s all fine. And then eat a little bit.
It’s over to everybody. So there’s this is something coming from the ground. They grow they grow called torma. torma. torma.
torma. And it’s the chi chirocarpone. Normal marble. Normal. Normal.
A marble. Oh, it’s sweet. It’s not red. It’s sweet. Oh.
It’s sweet. Sweet. So it’s red on the outside, white on the inside, and it’s sweet. It’s not a sweet potato, is it? Red sure.
I don’t know what to do. And then they mix it with butter and sugar. No. Just Do they do they cook it? The so good.
Yeah. Yeah. So good. But add they cook it in butter and sugar. Is it good?
And they’ve got which means tsampa is butter. Means? Toma Makos. Toma Makos means just means butter. Oh, really?
And then Toma, whatever that is. It must be kind of Toma Makos. Some kind of grain. It’s not? Wow.
It’s beautiful. It is. You can still taste it? So the So this is the butter they had in Tibet. It wasn’t adulterated.
Therefore, it was good for you. So it was good for you. But, like, butter they had. In India, they don’t put fats in. They don’t know.
They’re adulterated. It’s not good for you. Not good. Mhmm. So they did just the butter was just only made from churned milk and what didn’t have anything else added into it.
Into bit. This is from the oh, what’s that animal? The dzomo. Dzomo bark, is it? Or Is it taste the same?
So the the butter made from dri is a little bit better. So that’s a bit bit more bit more expensive, wouldn’t it? You get more milk from a dri, but the milk from a dri is better. Better for the making of butter. It’s it’s better taste.
And, also, the the meat from dri is better than dzomo’s. So we’re back at at Losar. Did they all make these these things together, the village, or was it just the household that made them together? The whole village? So each family would make one of these.
And then they they make one for each of the the various the altars in their homes. Oh. They had different altars, and they make one for each of the altars. Did this home have many altars? The canary.
The. They won big altar. Why would that have been? The color. Go then and check.
Yeah. So I check. So there there are eight rooms. Mhmm. Oh, in this second floor?
In the second floor. There are eight room. So in your third room, this is where they have the So So they’re in a row sort of eight in a line. Shimba. I remember.
Yeah. The third room had the main deity. It’s the main It’s the shrine room, wasn’t it? Yeah. Shrine room.
Yeah. So there’d be some places. In this room, they’d be just it’s like a shrine room. They’d be, yeah, image of the Buddha and and deities and their these seats, but there there wouldn’t be a lot of that. There wouldn’t be other this was wouldn’t be other use it for any other functions.
Yeah. So that’s where they put the main Mhmm. Different Yeah. They put this in the various offerings in that room. And did each of the other rooms have Did the village all come together for Losar?
How did they come together? Losar. Losar. When he was a boy. So they wouldn’t they wouldn’t all come together So each each house?
A few would visit each other. Right. And is that is that the main things they do for when he was a boy? Good food they make good food and stay have a good time inside. Do they have?
They they would drink all day. But in the they asked not only that. They they usually they drink a lot throughout. Usually, they drink a lot. Not in Kham.
No. In his in Kham, they didn’t like chang. Sounds like a wonderful place. I think it might be time to stop, is it? Yeah.
It’s good. Next time. Did you know that you had to change the clock for an hour? Yes. It but that one’s not changed.
Is it? Has that changed? No. It hasn’t been changed. Wish it changed.
Yeah. It won’t change. Yeah. Oh, good. That’s a family that’s a Rinpoche’s family tree.
It’s Rinpoche. Yeah. Just a reference. The. Could you just ask which one was the eldest?
Because we used to put the eldest. We start with the eldest on that side. Do you know his mother was older than his his his So is What does that wondered whether his brother had any brothers and sisters. Yeah. So you had two brothers who who are monks.
Oh. What do we call those? Who said Well We talked about those two monks. Well, unless I’ve got them mistaken with them. That’s that’s a mother’s brothers, isn’t it?
That’s a monks. It? And then so that’s right. That’s right. That’s right.
And then. Yeah. He had two brothers. And they’re both monks? They’re both monks.
What what were their names? The oldest was? Tsangga. Tsangga? Uh-huh.
Tsangga. Oh. T s a n g. I’m just guessing. G a.
Mhmm. Tsangga. Tsangga. Tsangga. That’s his only name.
Well, and the other one? Which one was the eldest one in the family? The father or Tsangga? So Tsangga was the oldest. Right.
And And then and then the baby was. Oh, that’s right. Oh, and the nephews, do we the nephews, are they still do they have families? Did they afterwards, did they get married and have Rinpoche’s nephews, these three? Yeah.
Does he know whether they they got married and Lobsang Migmar and Milan, Prince Artoma, That’s the first one. Yeah. So when he was at when he was staying at Sera, Lobsang Migmar came and stayed at Sera for three years. Oh, that’s lovely. Then he went then he went back.
To Tibet? To Kham? And then he went back to his home. He went back to it. I’m aware of his living now.
He went back to. Oh, wasn’t that wonderful? And Which one? That’s the second one. Yes.
Think it’s encouraging. When he when he went to When he went to the Sera Monastery in Lhasa, was four years old. And Ting Sao was was two years old. Oh. And then Ting Sao Oh, So when he had been at Sera for three three or four years, there was a epidemic, I guess, in his village, and they both died.
So none of them are are in his home now. Yeah. He died. I think I mean when when he said he stayed at Sera, I think he was talking about staying at Sera in in in Lhasa. Oh, okay.
Not not in not in there. So in his home now, there are five people in Mittina Oh, And so is there. So they still live? They’re not none of the things are negative. But the the oldest daughter died.
And then one one of the daughters has a husband. Ah. So there’s there’s Five. That’s the five that still live there. He wouldn’t have seen those daughters then, I suppose.
The This is a house, isn’t it? Be. This is new. This is his house, but this this is new. This is this is the husband of one of the daughters?
The younger daughter or the other one? This one. This one’s a nun. This is her husband. One’s a nun.
Was it would she be the younger daughter? Youngest daughter? The is the older. Older. Yeah.
The is the older. Yeah. Okay. And then these two these two boys are the sons of this Oh, that’s nice. So their family is still going on.
Two boys. Which one? Is it dead? She’s Oh, yeah. She’s dead also.
So now it’s just Because they would they would be ten or twenty years older than Rinpoche from what I Wangdag, w a n g, d a g. And what is your great niece? The bigger one. Oh. How do you spell what?
Alright. Great. H e y. And This is this is just beautiful. Is that from the ground, or is it I don’t know.
A. And look at the doorways. Look at the the wood. It’s almost a swastika. It’s beautiful.
It was it was lovely. But that What is it? It is. I may remember it well. It might be.
Lobsang That’s fun. It’s beautiful. She and the nun came to India. Did she? Oh.
Dalai Lama gave her her nun her novice vows. Oh, that’s lovely. And she stayed four or five months at Sera. Well And then she went back home. Oh, that’s wonderful.
So does she live at home now with her sister? No. No. She’s she’s she’s at home. And that beautiful building there, it’s nothing like what Rinpoche described as it.
She This is Yeah. So this is only this building is only two years old. So before they had big huge houses, but when the Chinese came, they destroyed them. And now since they started rebuilding them, they just built very small houses, and many are made out of wood. Oh, okay.
So his whole house was destroyed? So the the many of the the big houses were confiscated by the Chinese when they invaded, and his his house was taken over. And many of the houses and the owners didn’t take care of the houses. So many of the houses were just were ruined? Destroyed.
Destroyed. Naturally. And they destroyed many houses. And some of them just weren’t taken care of. And they would and so they would take they got a lot of this wood from the old houses.
Oh, And this and this house was just newly built. It’s a beautiful house. Except for that, Homi doesn’t have one. Only in here. It’s beautiful too in its own way.
It’s very beautifully made. They must be good craftspeople. Yeah. Yeah. The animals are staying underneath there.
I don’t suppose they’ll have so many animals now. Yeah. Things on. There’s only five people. The how many animals you would have, it would depend upon how many people there were in the family.
When Chinese came, they rounded up all the animals. And just made one big herds of sheep and goats and things like that. They didn’t have individual herds. I don’t know. Yeah.
Was just a one general herd. Oh, she’s Then they redistributed the herd according to the number of people in the family. So if you only had a few people in your family, you just got a few animals. So you had eight or ten people in your family. You got lots of animals.
One horse. They have one horse. Or one. And one dzomo, one cow. They probably don’t have any sheep or cow sheep or goats.
I used to, but I don’t think didn’t think they do. Yeah. That’s very good. They don’t have did Rinpoche’s horses when he was a little boy have names? Did they Kyung is a, like, a reddish color.
Oh. Maybe it’s very So to do with its mother, its color. Yeah. And so there was female, reddish color. So there were some spotted horses?
Uh-huh. Is that their name, or they just called spot or Yeah. They’re called female spotted horses. Oh, that’s much like it. And the other spot.
Yeah. That’s sort of what we we do too. They did they it seems that they were I’m not sure. But they would name him after the markings. Right.
The black mouth horse or something like that. Maybe they had a black or black patch. Yeah. Has Rinpoche seen any Australian horses yet? They went to they went on a picnic in Sydney, and they saw lots of horses.
Are they similar? Like bigger? They’re dappled. Mhmm. Pretty pretty tight.
Dappled. It’s very similar. Tell him we’re getting a horse in our paddock soon for one of my daughters to ride. I think it’s coming tomorrow. Thank you.
It’s now Thursday the tenth of November nineteen eighty eight and I’m going down to Buddha House to record the third interview with Khensur Rinpoche. Which is. Could you ask Rinpoche if we could talk about how he first became a monk and all of his life and life in the first early life in the monastery and then all of that side of his life today. We can talk along those lines. After the age of seven, he stayed at home.
And then he was made a monk by, as we said before, Gaden Rinpoche, and he was given the name of Rinpoche. I’m just is Gaden Rinpoche the one that lived up on the mountain? King. Yeah. So, yeah, he’s the one that lived in his village on the mountain.
But that was he was the only three when he got the name from The the So, yeah, yeah, that’s right. So he was given that name when he was three. Mhmm. But he wasn’t given a another name when he became a monk. Right.
Right. So how didn’t actually he actually become a a novice. He just said he he just called himself a monk. He was said that he was a monk. He actually take ordination at the age of seven.
Oh. So that’s that’s when So So you didn’t take take his or his novice ordination. And only when he arrived in Lhasa later on did he actually take his ordination. But at this time, So he he moved to the monastery at the age of seven. At the age of called himself a monk.
They just called him a monk, but he actually wasn’t didn’t take ordination. Did he have his hair shaved? Was that is that usual to do it that way or is it a little bit unusual? The So, yes, they would just leave their home and move to the monastery. Though they didn’t had they hadn’t actually taken ordination yet, they would just say they were a monk Yeah.
And live in the monastery. So at seven he went to Dargye Gompa and so he they say he became a monk. I mean, they say, you know, I become a monk, they they actually at that time, they don’t actually take ordination. Right. But it physically he’s going?
He moved to the monastery. He went to Dargye Gompa. Was there a special ceremony or a farewell from the family? Or how did it, you know? So at this time, there’s no particular there’s no special ceremony.
It’s just you have to go to someone and say, you be my will you act as my teacher? And then they and they they accept you to be their student. So this is all that that takes place at that time. So nothing special. All that talk.
That all he just said? Yeah. He said he said, yeah. He was just repeating what he said when he it wasn’t that nothing special happened when you go to the monastery. They just the teacher you just ask someone to act as your teacher, and then and they at that time, perhaps, they will give you a name, but he already had his name.
Yeah. So who was Rinpoche’s main teacher then? Was it the same? So his, you know, his two uncles were staying at Dargye Gompa. So the older of these two two uncles That’s right.
Acted as his teacher. Yes. This is this one up here. His mother’s mother’s son. Yeah.
So that’s Yeah. That’s that was his teacher. So he had a big monastery. Well, his uncle did. Yeah.
Oh, and so where did Rinpoche sleep? So it wasn’t such a big change, was it? Yeah. So it wasn’t much difference between when he went to the monastery. Said many of the people he saw were familiar to him and living with his uncle.
Right. But it’s very much the same. So it was a very comfortable sort of a move. It was very at ease back. He didn’t have any problems when he moved away from home to the longest time.
Were were his family sad to see him go, or they didn’t have any problems either? Tears? Yes. There’s tears. Close.
They live very close. The monastery is close to home. How many is it miles or kilometers? Or It’s a car. We on time.
Okay. Hours? Walking. Walking. So much closer on horseback.
Did he walk to the monastery? So he was little and he couldn’t walk, so he rode a horse. And his uncles came with him, I suppose. Yes. Yeah.
They came along with him. His father, his uncles. His father came too? About What were some of Rinpoche what’s Rinpoche’s first memories of the journey and being there? What were the first had he had he spent much time there before, or was it Correct.
Quite new to him? The Yeah. He had been there before he became a So he he knew the place quite well? Yeah. I think.
So he had been there before because on the New Year, they perform a dance. So he had been to that dance at the monastery. So was was the Dargye Gompa a big place? Could he just describe a little bit? So they were monks from all from from all the three monasteries of Sera, Drepung, and Ganden were there also.
They’ve been. That it they trained at all of those, but they were now at. And then driven. What’s it? Yeah.
So they used to go from many districts around, and they would go to each of the of their respective monasteries in Lhasa. Someone would go to Ganden, someone would go to Sera, they would say maybe three years in Ganden, three years in Drepung, four years in Sera, and then after that period they would return, and then they would come back to Dargye Gompa. I’ll change this one.