Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. The image of someone staggering out of a desert desperate for water anchors this 105-minute session: Geshe Pema Tsering uses it to define the “hankering” that binds beings to cyclic existence. He traces the dependency chain — renunciation must precede compassion, which must precede bodhicitta — citing Lama Tsongkhapa’s image of barley powder on beer to illustrate how weak most people’s wish for liberation actually is. After explaining the three types of suffering, the session turns to the antidotes: meditating on the rarity of human rebirth and the certainty of death. A story about Geshe Dromtönpa — who told a monk that circumambulations, prostrations, and scripture recitation all fall short of actual Dharma — drives home the refrain: give up this life. A Q&A closes with an explanation of nirvana as the freedom achieved by realizing emptiness and uprooting the ignorance at saṃsāra’s root.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 5. Day 2 PM Teaching.mp3
UUID: bd6f5a1b-ba24-45c6-827c-55993489833e
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: z Teachings DTL (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Date: 2006 (exact day not recorded)
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 105.0 minutes
Words: ~7,056
Okay. Instructing you to give rise to a good motivation. Okay. Can A little cushion and maybe one one of these things Yes. To to to put a guess’s book.
So then what is that? So then the reason why it is necessary to give rise to renunciation, Then we go to the next root verse, which reads, there is no way to win without pure renunciation. This is striving for pleasant results in the ocean of life. It’s because of their hankering life as well that beings are fettered, so seek renunciation first. Geshe-la was then explaining in a in a in a very simple way the meaning of this word.
So then the the whole idea is that is the Tibetan is word is using a word which means, like, it it was translated as as hankering, but it’s, like, thirsty, as as as someone who’s coming out of the desert and is desperate desperately thirsty for water. So then it is this way, we we are thirsty for for the happiness of of of saṃsāra, cyclic existence. We are and then we we we have this mind which is which is holding tight to to to pleasures of of of cyclic existence. And then we as beings, we are always working for money, and and the the hungry ghosts are always striving to involve in in in trying to get food and so forth. We are all involved in in in, how do say, in in in the in finding the saṃsāra happiness and the gods and all sentient beings within saṃsāra.
And then so then we whilst we have this mind and we have no renunciation, so then the fact is then that we have there’s no chance we can find liberation. And then so then we must develop renunciation. So because it is is from this mind that we want that we want to be free, from this sort of of attitude that we want to be free. So we must develop renunciation. Must destroy this mind that is that is that is thirsty for the things of of of of saṃsāra.
Okay. And then, Geshe-la was reading from the commentary which is telling us the commentary of which is telling us that if in order in order to for us for ourselves to be free from from cyclic existence, we must give rise to the wish to be free from cyclic existence. And then if we do not if we do not give rise to that wish, then and and and remain attached to the to all the good things of of Samsāra, then there is no way we will find liberation. And then and then we are given an example. Then if a if a prisoner does not develop the wish to to to to escape from prison and does not strive in ways, does not make effort in ways to then to to to release himself from from from the prison, then then he won’t find he won’t be free.
He won’t be liberated from from that from that prison. And in the same way, if we do not have the the wish for liberation and we do not, how to say, make make effort in ways, in the means, in the for to for gathering the causes for liberation, then we’ll the time of our liberation will never come about. And then and then if if on the other hand, then one gives rise to the wish to be free from cyclic existence, then at one point, then one that freedom will come about. One will will find freedom from cyclic existence. And then Geshe lais then saying, so then if one gives rise to the wish to be free from cyclic existence, then then naturally one will engage in in ways will start working at accumulating the causes for for liberation.
And and then at one point, even if one says that one does not want to be free, he will he will he will become free anyway. Okay? So the thing is, again, reiterating that if one gives rise properly to this wish for liberation, then again, naturally, one will start working to attain that liberation itself. One will start studying the the the scriptures and the teachings, one will start meditating, one will start doing accumulating all the causes for liberation, and one will will find liberation. And And Geshe-la is then saying, but we ourselves, we do not have that.
Now do we? So then, Geshe-la was saying, so then we we are all able to to actually produce that thought, to to understand what what liberation is, and then producing within our minds that the thought that thinks, oh, liberation has has many qualities and all that. How how nice it will be if if we would attain liberation? But then but then he said, alone is not enough. And then at at this at this smallest the the tiniest hardship we meet, then we immediately we we stop.
And then so that we all we all after having studied, for example, the the the good qualities of the Buddhas, then we all think, oh, how how how good it will be if if if I myself attain or if I had all these qualities also. We all think that, don’t we? I think it’s like I said, but then then in order to accomplish that, that enlightenment, then we have to we have to practice generosity, we have to practice morality, we have to practice concentration, so forth. We have to go engage in so many hardships. And then and then seeing that, and then we immediately think, oh, now that that won’t happen, now will it?
So then again and then and then in this way, when when one thinks to oneself, oh, there’s no way that I will be able to attaining liberation, and there’s no way I will able to attain liberation. And then one just it stays like this and doesn’t do anything else about it. Mhmm. What is it that we need? Geshe-la is asking what what is that we need?
What we need is is to develop that mind that that is that that wishes to attain liberation. And then so then as a preliminary to that to that to the development of wish, then the text is telling us we need to understand how is it that that in which way the cyclic existence goes about. And then Geshe-la is then saying, so then we need to understand how cyclic existence works. We need to understand that there is within cyclic existence, there is nothing but suffering. There is no happiness to it whatsoever.
We need to understand that it is all in the nature of suffering and so forth. Okay? And then Geshe-la is going on from the text, and Geshe-la is explaining that so what is it that is that is called saṃsāra? What is it that is called cyclic existence? It is as Geshe-la says tells us, it is the five contaminated aggregates, the aggregate of form, feeling, discrimination, compositional factors and consciousness.
So then so then, again, I guess, I went for for the text and the text is telling us that so then the cyclic existence is that taking again and again taking this this how do you say? This this five contaminated aggregates. Was then telling us, we don’t need to look at anything else. We just need to look at this the five contaminated aggregates. And then the text asked, what is it that then that binds us to saṃsāra?
And then and then we are told that it is karma, actions, and afflictive conceptions. So then so then Geshe-la is explaining what is it that is that is is called karma or actions and afflictive conceptions. So the first Geshe-la is explaining afflictive conceptions is referring mainly, I would say, to to that ignorance, to the ignorance of self grasping, to the to the to the ignorance that does not know the way that phenomena actually exist. So then that that is what is meant by afflictive conceptions. And then out of that afflicted conception, out of that ignorance, then we engage in all sorts of activities.
We perform all sorts of actions. And then so then that is what those actions are the ones that are referred here as to karma or actions itself. And then so then Geshe explained. So then, again, we whilst we are overpowered by this by this ignorance, then we engage in all sorts of activities. And then Geshe-la was explained, so then we we we then accumulate all sorts of contaminated virtues, and and we accumulate non virtues.
And then we we we, how do you say, have this not knowing the way that things So then so then Geshe-la Geshe-la was explaining before before what Geshe-la just said. Geshe-la was explaining that so then once we are overpowered by by that ignorance, then we engage in all sorts of activities. Then, again, not knowing the way that things the phenomena actually exist, then we we start we we keep on attached to the happiness of of Samsāra even though even though we we believe that happiness of Samsāra, which is actually suffering, we we think that it that it is real happiness. And then but because of that ignorance, we do not understand it. We do see it we do not see it that way.
We do not understand it to be actually the nature of suffering. And then we create attachment when we see something and and we think it is good. And even though it is not good from its own side, Geshe-la was then saying, we still we think that it is good, and then we create attachment. And then we we when we meet other other others with other phenomena, and then, again, we we we think that it is bad, and then we we get angry. And in this way, we we keep on keep on producing karma.
And then Geshe-la was then saying, again, with respect to karma and afflictive emotions and afflictive afflictive conceptions that And then and then finally, Geshe concluded, so then understanding all this, then Geshe-la was then saying we we we need them. We understand that we need them to to get rid of this action and these afflictive conceptions. And then if can rid ourselves of these, then we can attain liberation. And then so then the text asked us asked previously, so then what is it that binds us to cyclic existence? It is then actions and afflictive conceptions.
And to what are we bound to? And then again, the text answers, we are bound to that to those five contaminated aggregates. And then Geshe-la was then saying, so then again, have been born again and again uninterrupted. Since beginningless time, we have been born in in this in in in within this contaminated aggregate, within cyclic existence. And from now up until the day we attain liberation and enlightenment, again, impelled by karma and afflictive emotions, it will be just so.
And then so then so there in order to to be free from that, in order to engender liberation from from that cycle cycle from from Samsāra, then we must we must see all all of cyclic existence to be to be actually in the nature of suffering itself. And then we must then give rise to this to this mind that has aversion to it, and then this has strongly opposes attachment to that. And then we have then to give rise to this sort of renunciation. Then, so then now this is very difficult. Then reading again through the sentence and then going through through the the part of the sentence which which tells us that we must see, understand that all cyclic existence, all of saṃsāra is actually in the nature of suffering.
In which I was saying, so then understanding that, seeing that is very difficult. Then what the text is telling us is that we must see, we must understand that every happiness that we experience, every pleasure that we experience here as human beings, all the the wealth and material possessions and everything, everything that we that we call happiness, we have to understand that all that is actually in the nature of suffering. But then, Geshe-la is saying, but here we are believing that it is actually happiness. We all understand the sufferings of the hell realms, the suffering of the preta realms, the sufferings of of animals, And we all understand the disease, sickness, illness, and and and the suffering of of cold and heat and so forth. But then Geshe-la is saying that there are three types of suffering.
There is a suffering of suffering, which is very obvious suffering, and there’s a the suffering of change, and there’s a suffering which is called compounded suffering. And then Geshe-la was explaining there is nothing within cyclic existence, which is not one of these types of suffering. So then which we call happiness in cyclic existence is actually the suffering of change, in the nature of the suffering of change and the nature of the compounded suffering. And then, Geshe-la, is anything so then Geshe-la said previously, so then that that’s very difficult to understand that. And then now, Geshe-la was then saying, so then when we see somebody who is extremely wealthy and and and fortunate, and we we we immediately we think, oh, that that’s very good.
And we we we assume that it is good, and we see only good qualities to that person, and we see no fault whatsoever, isn’t it? So then, because we associate only good things to that, then we immediately we think we have we have this wish within our minds comes about it, may may this happen to me. And then in in this way, we cannot develop, cannot we understand that it is suffering, and we we cannot then develop the wish to be free from it. So then, Geshe-la, I’ve been saying he’s he’s been telling that we must then understand that it is suffering. How is it that how is it that this this this this happiness is is actually suffering that because because it is completely unreliable.
Say that happiness of human beings lasts lasts just a few years, and happiness of gods even it lasts many hundreds of years only. But ultimately it will end. So then there is a big fault to this phenomenon, as we call happiness. It has to end because it arose out of causes that were actually, again, karma, actions and negative conceptions. So then it is all they all have a rise in how do you say?
Out of work that one has engaged in, actions that one has produced, that that that then produce this, how you say, contaminated virtue. And then so because of that, because they have they have they they come out of causes, you know, so because of that, they must they must end. Because of that, they are unreliable. And then as I was saying, so then still now so then we these five aggregates of ours, still they are dragged about by this karma and afflictive afflictive conceptions. We do not have any independence.
We don’t have not have any any control over it. And again, because because we are still being being dragged about by by karma and afflictive emotions, again, in the future lives, So then again, in the future last, we will be still being wondering about within cyclic existence. We’ll be, how to say, producing these contaminated virtues, and we’ll be producing non virtues, and we’ll we’ll accumulate the causes of more cyclic existence. We’ll accumulate the causes to be born in in the lower realms and in in in as prettiest animals and so forth. So then if we then meditate in this fashion again and again, then we will understand that phenomena are in the nature of suffering.
But then right now, presently, we we do not understand that the happiness of gods and the happiness of humans is actually suffering. So then Geshe-la came back to the text, which is then telling us again, he reread the same sentence with his pointer. So then if we are to be free to to engender this this freedom from from cyclic existence, then we we must then understand, see all of cyclic existence completely as in as in the nature of suffering. And then Geshe was then saying, so then we have this, then we have then to to meditate just as Geshe-la explained, and then have meditated in this way, we’ll be able to see cyclic existence as suffering, and then seeing it, we’ll then be able to engender that wish to attain liberation. Okay?
And then the text is telling us that if we do not have pure renunciation, then we won’t be able to reverse that mind, to oppose that mind which is striving for for the happy results of cyclic existence. And on top of that, And then the text is telling us that here in this context, that which is called hankering, which was referred to as hankering or that thirst for the happiness of cyclic existence, is also another name for craving. So then, whilst by power of that mind, which is craving for the happiness of cyclic existence, then all sentient beings are bound. So if that is so, how is it that’s how to say? If if that is so, would you think that you yourself is not bound to?
And then the text answer is, of course, you are. So that so then from from this moment on, then from the very beginning, we must search for that pure renunciation that wishes to be free from cyclic existence. And then so then in that in that one verse, why is it? There is no way to win without pure renunciation this striving for pleasant results in the ocean of life. It’s because of the hankering life as well that beings are fettered, so seek renunciation first.
Geshe-la was reading the verse again, and the text is telling us, so then here in this verse, have subsumed within it, you have both the paths of the beings of small scope and the paths of beings of a middling scope. So then I guess I was going say, then what is the path of the beings of small scope? It is is the practice of the abandonment of the ten non virtues that aims at attaining higher rebirth as humans and gods. So then so then those those beings of of small scope, Geshe-la was explaining, they they because they are striving because they are striving to attain higher rebirth as humans and gods, they are not do not have the wish to be free from from the whole of saṃsāra because they do not they do not understand that the whole of saṃsāra is actually the nature of suffering. So because of that, they they do not have the wish to be free from the whole of it.
So then that being so, they are called beings of small scope. And then as for the beings of of middling scope, the the the object of their goal is then liberation, and their practice is then the meditations and teachings on the four noble truths and and and the the three higher trainings. And then So then and then because I was reading for for the text, which is then telling us that that there are some people who think that in order to attain enlightenment, one only needs to meditate on the mind of enlightenment itself, and one does not need to meditate on renunciation. There are some people who think in this way. But even though even though there are being beings who who say who say so, and then not only renunciation is necessary even for the mere attainment of liberation, and then Geshe-la already added that it is also necessary for enlightenment, for the attainment of enlightenment itself.
So then the text the text was reading. So then one not only one needs renunciation in order to attain liberation, one needs fierce renunciation. And then Geshe-la was then saying, so then just the the the merely thinking about the fault of cyclic existence and then giving giving rise to the to the the weak thought of renunciation like like we do, that that is not enough. Okay? And then the text is then quoting Lama Tsongkhapa, and then Lama Tsongkhapa himself is quoting is he says something like this.
It’s about this this attitude of renunciation. It is just like Geshe Sharawa described it. Suppose it is no stronger in your heart than a thin film of barley powder is spread out on the surface of some homemade beer. Then your wish to avoid the causes of saṃsāra, the true origins, will be no stronger than that. And then, Geshe-la was then saying, so then not understanding, again, the sufferings that that that saṃsāra is in nature of suffering, then again, won’t be able to give rise to renunciation and to to then to give rise to the wish to attain liberation.
And again and again, then your aspiration to reach nirvana where you put an end to suffering and the causes of suffering, then that too will be just the same way. Then again, Geshe-la was then saying, then again, we won’t be able to give rise to that too. And then again, then your wish to accomplish the path that leads to liberation will be nothing but empty words. And then again, Geshe-la was then just saying to that, we’ll be just mere talk, and we’ll never be putting it into practice. And then also, without renunciation, then again, one won’t be able to give rise to that compassion which cannot bear to see sentient beings suffering whilst they are wandering with cyclic existence.
So then again, Geshe-la says, so then again, without renunciation, you cannot give rise to compassion. Without compassion, you cannot give rise to the mind of enlightenment. So then there’s a great fault in not giving rise to renunciation. And then again, just the text was saying what Geshe-la already anticipated. So the text was then saying now without compassion, then one won’t be able to give rise to that uncontrived and strong determination to free all sentient beings from cyclic existence, which is the mind of enlightenment.
So then Geshe-la then says so that without renunciation, we cannot give rise to compassion. Without compassion, one cannot give rise to the mind of enlightenment. So then it is completely wrong, it is not all right to say that in order to attain enlightenment, one only needs to meditate on compassion, one does not need to meditate on renunciation, as it was said before in the text. And then and then the greater way, the Mahāyāna becomes just some flimsy understanding of the descriptions that one finds of it in in in the in the books. And then just saying, so then it’s just that in the the vehicle.
It’s just it’s just empty words. It’s just mere talk. And then so then that that is was said by by Lama Tsongkhapa, And then like this, the Pänchen Losang Chökyi Gyaltsen is then adding to that. So then in order to give rise to the to produce the mind of enlightenment within one’s mental continuum, then before that, one must engender that compassion that they cannot bear to see sentient beings tormented by suffering. Okay.
Oh, yeah. This one. And then the tax is telling us the text is telling us that in order to produce that compassion, then one must do that based on on oneself, based on on having developed understanding in relation to oneself. And then on top of that, then one thinks one meditates on compassion in relation to others. And as I was explaining, so then without having previously understood the suffering in relation to oneself, then one won’t be able to understand the suffering of other sentient beings, and one won’t be able then to give rise to compassion in this way.
And then the text is quoting Jowo Atisha, Lama Atisha, who was then how do you say? Gently how do you say? Gently it’s not scolding, but Admonishing? Yeah. Admonishing just admonishing the Tibetans.
He said something like this. Only in Tibet have I found people with the wish for enlightenment who haven’t yet found love and compassion. So then so the question is, there is it is impossible. There is no no way that that it can be someone with the mind of enlightenment that has not that does not have love love and kindness and compassion. I don’t think that’s I think the industry is talking about that one.
Los. So then so then now the Geshe-la then says something we can understand then how important renunciation is, and we can understand then the title of this part of the commentary, which is saying, so what are the reasons for for for the need to give rise to the renunciation? So then it it is it it is very difficult then to to give rise to renunciation, always in it. It is very difficult to understand that all of saṃsāra is actually the nature of suffering now, isn’t it? Oh.
Okay. So then I go to the second part, again, of this commentary on renunciation. And then then it’s the way to give rise to renunciation. That has two parts. So then it’s it’s then the way to, how do you say, oppose attachment to this life, and secondly, the way to oppose attachment to to future lives.
And then we we then go into the first one, which is then the first half of the next root verse of the text. And then we read you all have the text, I have a different translation, okay, so you can compare. So leisure and fortune are hard to find. Life is not long. Thinking constantly in this way, stop desire for this life.
And I guess I was answering. So then, again, leisure and fortune, this precious human rebirth, again, is is very difficult to find. And then our life our lifespan is very short. So then if we have then to meditate constantly, repeatedly in this way, and then if we do so, then we’ll be able to stop attachment for this life. So then, Geshe-la, was reading for the the commentary to these two lines of of verse.
And then so then when when we, how to say, wish that it happens to us or when we wish to have something such as what what what is called any any any collection of of good things such as food, clothing, and fame that that someone else has more than than we do. So then when we when we see this this person or someone else who has more of this than we do, then when we have that wish to have that too, when we we wish them to obtain those things, then and then we we, how to say, have the wish to have this this happiness and these pleasures of this life and to to have the the profits and the fame and so forth, then this is what is called attachment to this life. So then and then the text is telling us, so then in order to practice Dharma, then one must then oppose that attachment to this life. And Geshe-la was explaining, so then if one must then oppose that mind that was just described in the text, that mind that wishes for the the things of this life, one must oppose that.
And the text is then telling us how is it that we oppose that, that we oppose that attachment to this life. And then it is by meditating on the preciousness of this life of freedoms and opportunities and and and and on on how difficult it is to find such a life, to to to meet with such freedom and opportunity, and then also meditating on the impermanence of death. And then if one thinks in this way, if one reflects in this way, then one will be able to oppose that attachment to this life, and then one will be able to give up this life. As for the freedoms and opportunities, as for what is meant by the freedoms and opportunities, it is just this human body that we have right now, this body that we have already attained. And this body is it is very rare.
It’s very precious because it is it it is is a result of having accumulated in the past virtue, contaminated virtue, and the virtue that causes happy rebirth as humans and gods. And so then because of that, we have this very favorable condition of this human body where we can accomplish anything we want without much difficulty. It’s extremely meaningful also because, as I was explaining, because with this human body, we can if if if we are inclined towards the path of the the great scope, the beings of great scope, then we can accomplish enlightenment if if if you want. Or or if we are inclined to the path of beings of medium scope, then we can accomplish liberation.
And if we are inclined to the path of being beings of small scope, then we can we can also accomplish higher rebirth as humans and gods. It’s very it’s very precious. It’s very meaningful. So then and also and then the text is telling, so then that we must meditate on the the preciousness of of this human rebirth of of with the freedom and opportunities, and then the text is then saying that we must meditate on on the difficulty of of finding so of of meeting with such a rebirth. And then Geshe-la is then saying, so then it is difficult.
It is difficult because because of of its causes, the causes of such a human rebirth, which is to keep to keep pure morality, and then not only that, to practice the six, how do you say, the six perfections. Actually, I didn’t want to use the the word perfections, but to practice generosity, morality, patience, perseverance, concentration, and and wisdom to practice those. And then not only that, but also to to make pure aspirational prayers. And then we can see how difficult it is because right now we have a lot of difficulty in just practicing this, but then we can understand how difficult it is to accumulate those causes, how difficult it was to accommodate those causes in the past. Okay?
And then and then finally, the text has mentioned in the meditation on on the impermanence of death. So then, again, we have this we have attained this this this precious human rebirth, which is so difficult to find, again, because we have practiced pure morality, and we have practiced the six perfections, and we have made pure aspiration and so forth. So now now we have this this precious human rebirth, but still, it won’t last any longer than maybe a hundred years. If even worse, we might die tonight, we might die tomorrow, we may die the day after tomorrow, or after that, we may die at any time. So then if if thinking this way, that is the meditation on impermanence of death.
Okay. And then so then, Geshe-la was reading again for that same sentence, and then the the final part of the sentence is then telling us that if we then can reflect again and again in this way, preciousness of rebirth and difficulty to find it and impermanence of death, etcetera, then we will be able to then oppose attachment to this life. Will be able, as a result, then to give up this life. Okay? Okay?
So then so then, as I was reading through a difficult sentence that I didn’t understand, so I was explaining the the meaning of the sentence, which which is then telling us, so then why is it what why is it what is it that stops that stop us from practicing Dharma? And even when we practice Dharma, what is it that stops that Dharma from turning into real Dharma? It is then that grasping or attachment to this life. So then the text is quoting. One one that’s very meaningful mind training four line verse, which is called parting from the four attachments, which is then which is then saying, if if there is attachment to this life, then you are not a a real dharma practitioner.
And if if there is attachment to saṃsāra, then you have no renunciation. Then if if it is if if you are acting for your own welfare, then you do not have the mind of enlightenment. And if if there is grasping, then you do not have the view. Okay? So what is it?
So then again, Geshe-la was reading the those those first two lines of the verse, which is then saying if there is attachment to this life, then you are not a true dharma practitioner. And if there is attachment to saṃsāra, then you do not have renunciation. So then, again, the text is then saying, what is then the borderline of between dharma and non dharma. What is it that that characterizes the actual dharma? And it is it is having say, giving up this life or not giving up this life.
That’s that’s the borderline. Okay. Then So then, Geshe-la was reading through a couple of sentences from the text, which is then which then are telling us that usually when we practice Dharma, then it comes together with with concern for this life, with with worldly activities. And then but then if one if one has given up this life, has developed that mind that that gives up this life, then one’s Dharma practice, one won’t be mixed with worldly activities. One will be pure Dharma practice.
Okay? And then in this respect, then the text is quoting Geshe Dromtönpa, which then was was was talking to to to another monk who was who he was saying this to to this other monk. He was saying to he was saying this monk, a venerable monk is very is very good that you are doing circumambulating the stupa. But it it would be it would be better if you were to practice Dharma. So then and then that that monk, he thought that he said, wow.
Then maybe is not Dharma. Then he started to make to make many prostrations. And then again, Geshe Dromtönpa came and told to him, oh, it’s very nice that you are doing prostrations, but it will be will be even nicer if you were to practice Dharma. And so then that monk, he he saw himself, wow. Then so you can believe it’s not Dharma, then pursuing it’s not Dharma.
So then then he decided that he would he would recite the scriptures, he started reciting many scriptures. And then again, Geshe Dromtönpa saw him, and when he met him, he said, again, it’s very nice that you are reciting these scriptures, but it would it would be even better if you were to practice Dharma. So then not knowing what is real Dharma practice, actual Dharma practice, then that monk went to ask Geshe Dromtönpa what is how should I practice then? And Geshe-la Dromtönpa answered him. He said, give up this life.
Give up this life. Give up this life. Oh. So then concluding then, Geshe-la concludes that if one does not give up this life, then actual dharma won’t come about. So, yeah, so we stop here now.
Do you have any questions? There you are. Jeffrey? Two questions, really. The first is renunciation of saṃsāra and rebirth is one thing, but desire for nirvana or liberation is another.
And I think the question is for something that one has not experienced or tasted, having a desire for things unknown, there is no desire. And it’s a little bit like saying to someone, you should only desire chocolate and nothing else. And take it from me that it’s the most incredible thing and it will remove all suffering, so just desire it. But if you’ve never seen or tasted chocolate, it’s almost impossible to desire it. So it’s one thing renouncing and pushing away things that you know cause or cause suffering, but it’s quite another to have an incredible and singular desire for something that you haven’t tested.
And the second part of the question is, is a guarantee that liberation or nirvana will produce no suffering at all in itself? It’s a long question, isn’t it? So then for the first part of your question, okay, I I I can’t I’m not able to translate exactly what you said. So I I assume that you had a certain understanding of it, and then I I I put forth one question. So I assumed what I am understanding my understanding of your of of your question is that you did not clearly understood what nirvana is.
So then I I was asking Geshe-la, so then I I was telling him, I think he did not understood the meaning of nirvana. So then so then Geshe-la wasn’t explaining. So then nirvana, which is then translated as freedom from cyclic existence or liberation, it is then just freedom from the suffering of cyclic existence. So then once you know the happiness of cyclic existence to be actually suffering, once you know that that the whole of cyclic existence to be suffering, and you know that suffering, so then if you know if you experience suffering, if you if you understand that you are experiencing suffering, then you will naturally develop the wish to be free from that suffering. Freedom from that suffering is nirvana.
And with that endowed with that wish within your mind, then you will will start to to to look for ways to be free from it, to free yourself from it. You will Wait a minute. In order in order to he he is gonna try to to make it easy to understand. I just want to ask, sir, there is no other condition no no other experience attached to it. It is purely freedom, and there is no other kind of experience involved that might that might be the cause of suffering.
nirvana? Yes. So then there is within nirvana, once you have attained freedom from suffering, which is nirvana, freedom from all suffering, then there is absolutely no suffering experience whatsoever. That is the meaning of freedom from suffering. Right?
No. No. So, Gisha, I’m gonna try to to make it clear for you. Is explaining that all phenomena within saṃsāra, they they be it happiness or suffering or or or all phenomena, then they they they they come out of causes. And the causes of those phenomena are then karma and afflictive conceptions, actions and afflictive conceptions.
And then the all of them, they originate in this erroneous mind, erroneous consciousness. And then so then out of that erroneous consciousness, one generates the the causes for for the the the the experiences within cyclic existence, and that is an erroneous consciousness. And then so that is then Samsāra. And then and then Geshe-la was then explaining. So then and then on the other hand, you have the realization of emptiness, which is then an unmist non mistaken, a non erroneous mind.
And then from that, having realized that non erroneous mind, which is, again, which is a correct consciousness, it’s a, how do say, nondeceiving consciousness, then one will not produce any more negative emotions and actions out of that. So then one that is then the attainment of liberation, of nirvana, of freedom from the suffering of cyclic existence. Cool? Did you understand? Yeah.
Yeah. So then, again, mister Jeffrey, it was you heard he he was saying the word tawa, which is translated as freedom, liberation, or nirvana. So then what is that? That is then freedom from from afflictive conceptions and and and the actions that are that are controlled by those afflictive conceptions. So then there is there is freedom ultimately from the root of all afflictive conceptions, which is then ignorance.
So then once that all all sufferings within cyclic existence, they originate in that ignorance. So then on the other hand, if you if liberation then is then is then, I would say, the elimination of that ignorance by by the conscious that that realizes emptiness, and then having realized emptiness, then whilst having realized emptiness, then one is not overwhelmed anymore by by that erroneous mistaken consciousness of ignorance which which gives birth to all the suffering and suffering. So then if one got got completely rid of that ignorance, then there is no more cause of suffering, there is no more experience of suffering whatsoever. So then so then again, Geshe-la was then elaborating a bit more, saying that so then the attainment of liberation and the attainment of enlightenment, it depends on the realization of of emptiness. And then so then we can see then how important emptiness is.
And then what is emptiness? Emptiness is then understanding emptiness is understanding that phenomena do not exist in the way they appear to ourselves to exist, And that’s what it is. So then Geshe-la is explaining. So then all of all the experiences within cyclic existence, then they arise out of this erroneous mistaken mind consciousness. And then all phenomena of nirvana and liberation and enlightenment, they arise out of this non mistaken, non non-erroneous conscious mind.
Yeah.