Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. A verse from Sakya Pandita gives this session its central image: people inspect a horse or gem before buying, yet accept any Dharma that crosses their path like dogs over scraps of food. In this 99-minute morning commentary, Geshe Pema Tsering uses that comparison to examine what makes a teaching authentic, while working through Pabongka Rinpoche’s text on Lama Tsongkhapa’s Three Principal Aspects of the Path. He lays out four marks of genuine Dharma — traceable to the Buddha, examined by scholars, productive of realizations, transmitted through an unbroken lineage — then unpacks the verse “Listen with a pure mind” through the three faults of the pot and the six recognitions for instruction. A Q&A closes the session on what befalls practitioners who follow a mistaken path and how Buddhist calm-abiding differs from non-Buddhist versions.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 4. Day 2 AM Teaching.mp3
UUID: 6160834c-da73-4fa7-8e6b-2576eccad7bd
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: z Teachings DTL (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Date: 2006 (exact day not recorded)
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 99.4 minutes
Words: ~6,006
If you can move the instead of the. So for the mandala, because you said also the requesting one as well. Yeah. So that’s on page. Teaching periods page eighteen, and and then follow to page nineteen, twenty. Eighteen is the short mandala, and twenty, the request to turn the wheel of the Dharma.
Teaching periods. This is also in the yes. In the teach yeah. Right. Page twenty.
Yeah. Eighteen and twenty. Then, certain yes to listen to the teachings then with the motivation, with the mind of enlightenment in mind. Mhmm. Yeah.
So then we we follow on where we stopped yesterday. There is a quote from a verse from the perfection of wisdom, perfection of wisdom sutras, which is reading that all, how to say, the path that all the Buddhas, past, present, and future, practiced is none other than this perfection path, the perfection path or the perfection of wisdom. And then the text is saying that the name lambrim, or stages of the path of enlightenment, can also be traced be traced back to these to these teachings of the perfection of wisdom. And so then because of that, the text goes on to tell us that this the Dharma of lamrim, of the Dharma of the teachings on the stages of the path is even though it is a general teaching, a general quality of teaching of of Tibet, there are still those who who think that this is this is only a Gelug teaching, and and and with this thought in mind that they don’t take they don’t take they don’t practice these teachings. They don’t adopt these teachings.
And then the the author’s commentary, Pabongka Rinpoche, is explaining that this this lack of faith that they have on on on these these particular teachings is just that they do do not have enough merit. They didn’t these people who say such things, they do not have enough merit to to then take on this this path. So then the text goes on to say that not only that, but if if if we if we are to follow, to engage in this path that all the Buddhas have engaged, then we are we are going to also attain that state that’s that’s all the Buddhas have attained themselves. And on the other hand, if we practice another path, then we we might we might end up arriving at some at some how to say? We might have attaining or arriving some some some level or some some state, some strange level or state which which the Buddhas have the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas have have never attained themselves.
So then Geshe-la is explaining that this is making reference, for example, of some someone who who is practicing, for example, calm abiding or or concentration, and then attains to to the form realms or or to the formless realms and but does not does not attain liberation and enlightenment in this way. So then but then the text goes on to to to tell us that we we ourselves, we won’t, how do you say, be led astray in such a way because we were given, due to the great kindness of of of of Joe Atisha and Lama Tsongkhapa, we were given this this one teaching on on the stages of the path, which is under and and does not lead us astray. This one. So then the text goes on to tell us that if we are thinking of then practicing one Dharma, then we must not practice a Dharma which shows us a mistaken path, how to say, and we must not, how to say, practice such a path which is which is mistaken and act we must not we must avoid acting like like dogs, which eat whatever is is is is given to them without without investigating beforehand what it is that they are eating.
Okay? So then the text is quoting a a verse from Sakya Pandita, and Sakya Pandita is telling us that, how to say, even in some insignificant business over a horse or a gem or something like that, people check and ask everywhere and and consider and consider it well. People are seen taking pains like this over over even the the the smallest matters of of this life. Then, on the other hand, gaining the ultimate goal of all of all our lives, past, present, and future, depends on on the holy dharma. Yet, we price any dharma might come across, not checking if it is good or bad, acting just like dogs over scraps of food.
And then Geshe-la again was just saying again that we we we usually we we see the need to to check what what is the quality of whatever it is that we want to acquire, whatever object, be it a gem, a horse, a car, a motorcycle, whatever. And we check, we investigate the quality, and and and then we we acquire it, we buy it, or whatever. So then we must do that, and much more so when and these these things are are of very small meaning. And so we we definitely need them to to check and investigate the value of something much more meaningful as as the Dharma, which which is going to give us liberation and enlightenment. If we do not check and then practice just any teaching, and Geshe-la was doing again giving the example of someone who might be engaged in practicing calm abiding meditation, absorption meditation, and then get caught up in one level of absorption of the form or the formless realm.
There is this danger if we do not check the teachings that we are wishing to adopt. Okay? And then, again, Geshe-la was reading for the the the commentary to that to that verse of Sakya Pandita, which is then, again, telling us giving an example again that people go through through all sorts of of people investigate and and and go about asking questions and and analyzing whatever it is that they are going to buy or sell, even even the smallest things. They they go through all this this trouble to investigate it. Then on the other hand on the other hand, if if in relation to those things which are going to bring us benefit in future lives, we must not then take up anything in this way.
If we if we if we act in this way, just taking up any any teaching, then we won’t benefit. Then Geshe-la goes on to explain that we must then, having met, how to say, if we meet a mistake in teaching, then we won’t, how to say? We will all our all our how to say? The purposes of our our future lives will all go go astray. We will all be lost.
So in this way, And then the text goes on to explain that generally, having met such a mistake in teaching, then we take ourselves and go into retreat in a solitary place, in an isolated place, and then we we practice that that teaching. Then there is there is a chance, and then we will, how to say, go beyond the situation we are already in, and we will lose the meaning of, how to say, the purpose of our future lives. Okay? And then the to then the the text is quoting then from Jetsün Milarepa, one one verse from Jetsün Milarepa, which which says just just that what was said, you don’t meditate on the meaning of the personal instructions, and then you can sit in a mountain cave, but only to fool yourself. Okay?
This one. And then the text goes on to say that before, in past times, the the great translators, they they went through great hardships. They went through many hardships and and and through long distance and time. They went to India, to the land of India to bring forth the proper the proper teachings. So then because there were innumerable teachings at that time, which were which were mistaken teachings.
And in this way, the the is telling us in this way, then just just like pure water has to be traced back to to to pure snow, then in the same way, this Dharma that we want to practice has to be traced back to a traced back to a place, has to have it as its as its source, nothing less than the unmistaken teaching of the Buddha Śākyamūni himself. And then the text was also said that if we are to practice a teaching which does not have its sources in the lineage, in a lineage that leads straight to the Buddha through, as Geshe-la was explaining, through and so forth, then we can practice. We may practice for thousands of years, but we won’t bring forth not even one not a single realization. And it’s just like it’s just like churning water to make butter. Okay?
So then Pabongka is telling us that how do say? The Dharma that the Dharma that we want to practice, it should be it should have been taught by the Buddha himself, and it should have been cleaned of all of all error errors and mistakes by the scholars that have examined these these teachings through debate, through a lot of investigation, to see if any wrong ideas have crept into it or not. And it should have brought realizations to to to previous practitioners, to previous masters who have heard, reflected and meditated on such teachings, and then have been passed down to us through an unbroken lineage of of accomplished beings. This one. Okay.
So that if if if such a teaching comes about, then that is if you meet such a teaching with all these characteristics, then that is an authentic teaching. And then if we do not lapse in our effort, in our practice, then how do you say, the teaching from its own side will never fail us, will never deceive us, or will never let us down. Okay? So aside from from our lapse of of effort and and and practice, then the teaching itself from its own side will never fail us. Okay?
So then the text goes on to say that in that in in in these these authentic teachings, are are the the teachings on on Lamrim, on the stages of the path. And then these teachings also, like just as we find in all the the the the from amongst all the teachings of the Buddha, the the the the the most exalted and superior ones are those precious teachings on the of of of the perfection of wisdom. And then the teachings the overt teachings of those perfection of the perfection of wisdom is the deep meaning, the deep how do you say? The teachings of with the deep meaning, so to speak, the teachings of emptiness, then in the in the of the path, then because they are called the the teachings of deep meaning, the stages of the path, you have then these teachings are subsumed within the stages which are called the the deep the stages of of the deep path. Does that make any sense?
So that is just to say I was just asking, Gela. So that is just to say that the perfection of wisdom sutras have as its the overt teaching of the perfection of wisdom sutras is then this this deep meaning, what’s called the deep meaning, which is then the teachings on emptiness. And then this these teachings of the deep meaning in the teachings of the stages of the path, they are subsumed under the stage which is called the deep path. So then Geshe-la is explaining that emptiness is called the deep And and and it is deep because it is very difficult to attain. So because of that, it is called deep or the deep one.
And then the teachings on renunciation, on great compassion and on the mind of enlightenment, they are called the vast teachings. Also, there’s another translation, which is the far reaching teachings because they involve all sentient beings. They’re working for the sake of all sentient beings, so they are vast. So they are called the vast ones. Furthermore, then the vast meaning of the Sutras of the Perfection of Wisdom, again the vast teachings of the Sutras of Perfection of Wisdom, they are subsumed in the stages of the path, of the vast path.
And then, so then, because they all, how to say, revealed in the stages of the path, in the teachings of the stages of the path, then those who who want to practice want to practice the Dharma, then they should sorry, first sentence is because so because they are all revealed there, these two these are revealed in the stages of the path, so then this Dharma of practice is both complete and unmistaken, and only the teachings on the stages of the path to enlightenment are such, are complete and not mistaken in this way. And so, because of that, those who want to practice to practice Dharma, then they should definitely then engage in such in such a path, in such Dharma. Then moving on to another paragraph of the text, this part of the text is telling us then that some people, because of attachment to the traditions or the work passed on to them by their parents, So they they they hold on then to to mistaken teachings, such as the Bon the Bon teachings and so forth. And because of and and because of that, then the the the purpose of the great purpose of the future lives is is, like, carried away as as as if carried away by the wind.
And then then we are told the story of Druptop Gyalwa Chokyang, who was a practitioner, who first, he was an adept of the Bon tradition. And then after investigation, he found that the the sources of the or the origins or the very premises of the Bon tradition were were mistaken. They were incorrect. Having seen that, then he he engaged then in the Nyingma traditions, Nyingma tantric traditions. And that also, he he found fault with that too.
And then and then because of that, he went he went away to India. And then in India, he he learned and trained how do you say? He learned the the the the new, how do you say, tantric teachings and brought them to perfection, and in this way he accomplished, how to say, many realizations. This one. Okay.
And then Shantön Chöje, who is another great teacher and others, They may and and others, they have they have practiced. They have they have done things in in this in this manner also. So then because of that, then this is then the path which is praised by all the the Buddha’s the holy Buddha’s children, and this is the path that they that they they how to say? This is the the good path that they they go through, which is not mistaken, which is non deceiving. All those, how to say, who wish to engage, all the for all those fortunate ones who are wishing who wish to attain liberation and must then if they want to engage in in such a path, then this this path is the very entrance to liberation itself.
So then So in this way So in this way, Je Tsongkhapa is telling us that he will then, for that purpose, then, how to say, explain as far as he is as he is able these three principal aspects of the path, which is this this door this doorway to the path of liberation. And then the text explains that when Lama Tsongkhapa is saying that he is going to explain as far as he is able, when Lama Tsongkhapa writes in this way, those are just, how do say, humble words of his. And the meaning, how do you say, the the specific meaning of of of those words is to say that he would he would he would do the best he can to fit such a a vast meaning within such very few words. Okay? So then there is another way to of of commenting in this in this verse, specifically on the line that refers to all the teachings of the victors.
So then from from chanting the names from this this text called called chanting the names, we have the renunciation of the three vehicles lies in the end in a single vehicle. And in and such sayings, which is referring to all the teachings of the Buddha, then is explained to me that that in the interpretive teachings of the Buddha interpretable teachings of the Buddha, the Buddha talks about three vehicles. But the definitive ultimate meaning of of of of those teachings of the Buddha is that there is only ultimately, there’s only one vehicle. So then I guess I was explaining then that the Buddha has taught these three different vehicles, which is the hearers, the solitary realizers, and the bodhisattva vehicles. And but, ultimately, all of them lead to enlightenment.
So that’s the meaning of of those those verses. And then, ultimately speaking, the text goes on to say that ultimately speaking, then all these teachings of of of of the Buddhas were for the sake of of ultimately to to to give rise to within the mind streams of of the disciples to renunciation. Okay? So then because of that, then in order to give rise to a mind which is disheartened, disenchanted with cyclic existence, and then which wishes to attain liberation, then renunciation is taught and how to say, the disciples are incited to practice it. And in this way, it is produced within the minds of the disciples.
And here, again, in these teachings of on on the three principles of the path, then again in the beginning, then the the meditations and teachings and teachings and teachings and teachings and teachings on reflections on Renunciation are shown first. Then referring to the to the to the another line of of that verse, which is then talking about all the holy the holy children of the victors, then it is said that that that is explained to refer to the fact that the all the Buddhas and the and the children of the Buddhas, bodhisattvas, then they take as as their their hard practice, the most important meditation, and the one that they praise the most, the very center beam of the Mahāyāna teachings, which is the teaching on the mind of enlightenment. And then that line of the verse, which is referring to the fortunate ones who wish to to attain liberation is explained to be referring to to those how do you say? Is is explained as as referring to the fact that the only entrance to how do say? For those who wish to for those disciples who wish to attain liberation is then the teaching on the correct view.
Okay. So then therefore, if one wants to then attain liberation from cyclic existence, one must then cut through the the the ignorance, which is the root of cyclic existence. And if one wants to cut through that, then one must produce the wisdom that realizes selflessness. Okay? And then in order to produce that wisdom, then, again, the correct view is then explained right here in this, how to say, pledge to compose the three principal of the path, the text on the three principal aspects of the path.
Okay? So then we conclude in this part of the commentary explaining that Lama Tsongkhapa has then composed the pledge he has then written the the pledge to compose the text in the in the manner that was prescribed by by master Dignāgā. And so he he included in the pledge itself all the topics that are going to be treated in the main body of the work. He included every essential point in the pledge itself. And in this way, Je Tsongkhapa has already taught the essence of all the paths, the three principal aspects of the path in the very first verse.
Okay. So then we go to the third part of this preliminary teachings, which is then the encouragement to study, and we read the next root verse, which reads something like this. Listen with a pure mind, fortunate ones, who have no craving for the pleasures of this life, and who, to make leisure and fortune meaningful, strive to turn their minds to the path which pleases the victors. Okay? And Geshe-la was then explaining.
So then, again, the text is telling us not to be attached to the happiness of this life, that we must then make the special human rebirth that we have with all the the the freedoms and opportunities. We must make it meaningful. We must put effort in making it meaningful. So then in order to make that, we must engage in that path which pleases the Buddhas, which is then the three the very three principal aspects of the path. Again, renunciation, bodhicitta, and the view that realizes emptiness, and we must then listen with a pure mind, that is to say, we must listen to the teachings with faith in the teachings.
This one. Okay. So then look. Oh, yeah. And Gela was reading from the commentary to that verse, which is then just saying with adding a few more words, saying that all those who do not have, even for one moment, a mind which is which is craving for for the the happiness or the pleasures of this life and are endowed with the wish to then to attain liberation.
And for that reason, with that in mind, trying striving to make, how do you say, the the the lives the precious human rebirth meaningful, they then they take taking the essence of this life in this way. Those who wish that, then they they must engage in a path which is they must not engage in a path which is erroneous, which is which is going to lead them astray, which which is just a part of of a teaching or a piece of a teaching with an is an incomplete teaching. They must not engage in such in such a path. They must then engage in a path that even that pleases even the Buddhas themselves an ultimate path that which is not mistaken, which is not going to lead us astray, which is complete, in such a such a path, they must train themselves in. Okay?
So then, I have to say, the text is quoting then from the four hundred verses. How is it that that a student who wishes to practice the the path who is such a student who wishes to practice the path? How how he must be how this student must be? And the text is telling us that we we call someone a proper vessel for for study, one who is unbiased, who is intelligent, and who is willing who is willing to strive to make effort. Okay.
So then they to say they used to say that the taxis telling us that we we must be like this. We must be unbiased. We must be endowed with intelligence, and we must be willing to put effort in our in our studies. And then the text goes on to say that just as like like it was said in the four hundred stanzas, the four hundred verses, then a fully characterized student, disciple then must then have his mind set on the dharma without bias. These these fortunate disciples then, they must free themselves from from, I would say, adverse conditions such as the, how to say, the three faults of the pot, which is called the three faults of the pot, and they must then, how to say, endow themselves with favorable conditions like the six recognitions for instruction, and in this way, they must listen to the teachings with a pure mind, and that’s how the the the text is is encouraging us.
So then the three faults of the pot, which is called the three folds of the pot, Gesela was explaining, so then is the recipient with the students that’s been then compared to a pot. And so then the pot must not be the faults of the pot are then the pot having a lid closing it or the pot being dirty or stained and the pot and thirdly, the pot having a hole in the bottom. Okay? And then and as for the six the six images for instruction, then, okay, shall I give just just the the the first few ones, the the the the three or four first ones of those. I guess I was gonna explain.
So then when when one is listening to the teachings, one must see the teacher as as the Buddha sorry. One must see the the the lama as as how do say? The doctor. One must see the Dharma that he’s teaching as the medicine. One must see oneself as the patient, and then one must follow the teachings as one will follow the prescriptions of a doctor precisely and for as long as it’s necessary to heal the illness.
Okay. And then there is another way, the text is saying that there is another way to explain, to comment on those lines. And then referring to the line that says, those who have no craving for the pleasures of this life, then that line can be explained to be referring to renunciation. And then those, how to say, to strive to make this life of leisure and fortune meaningful, that line then is explained to be referring to the the to training one’s mind in in the mind of of enlightenment, which is then, how to say, the way to make this life, to take this essence, to take the the how to say, the the very best essence of this life of pleasure of leisure and opportunity? This one?
And then and then that that line of the verse, which is saying which is referring to the which which raised the path that pleases the Buddhas, then that is one can apply the the the meaning to that part that refers to the view then, to the view of emptiness. And just just as as as Lama Tsongkhapa himself has written in the in the in this very text of the three principles of the path, in another verse, which then we we quote then. A person has entered the path that pleases the Buddha when, for all objects in the cycle and beyond the cycle of existence, he sees that cause and effect never fail, and all objects lose all solid appearance. Okay. And then so then like this, then the these the three topics, which were then the the the very first verse of praise and and and prostrations, and then the the pledge to compose, and the and the the the verse of encouragement to study, then they were explained.
And then if we compare then these these three verses to the, how to say, middling and extensive teachings on the stages of the path, then that very first line, which is talking about, I bow down to all the high and holy lamas, then in relation to the middling and extensive teachings on the stages of the path to enlightenment refers to the teaching which is demonstrating the eminence of the author in order to show that the teaching comes from an authentic source. Okay? And then that that second verse, which is which which starts from, I will explain as far as I am able, the teachings of of the victors and so forth, that then is related to that section of the Lamrim teachings, which is then explaining or showing the greatness of the teaching itself. And then that verse, that part of the text which is talking about listen with a pure mind up to how to say those who do not how to say The the diverse from from from that point on why why why the text is telling us to to listen listen with a pure mind. Then from that point on, it is is the the the part that corresponds to the that section in the stages of the path to enlightenment on how to study and how to teach the stages of the path.
This one. This one. And then so now so now so now now we go to the main body of the text, which is then leading the students on how which is then leading the students on on the steps of the path itself. So then we go then to the to the second main part of the commentary, which is then the general the main body of the text that has four divisions. So the first division is the explanation of renunciation.
Then the second is the explanation of the mind of enlightenment or bodhicitta. And then the explanation of the correct view, the pure view. And then lastly, how do you say, having found the encouragement to practice after one has found certainty, confidence in the teachings. Yeah. So then and then as for the first the part, the first of those three, which is an explanation on renunciation, it has three parts.
The first one is the reasons why it is necessary to give rise to renunciation. Then secondly, the way to give rise to renunciation. And lastly, when is it that renunciation has arisen? And then we we are going next in the afternoon, we are going then to to start with the the the root text and the commentary on the root text. Okay?
Okay. Yeah, yeah. Danded. Geshe-la is asking if you have any questions.
What happens to poor unfortunate people that do take the wrong lama and the wrong path? Think in good intention that they’re learning the Dharma but maybe they’re not on the right path. What happens to them? So then, well, such beings, generally speaking, as as as the text was telling us, they won’t they won’t benefit. And then, Geshe lah was then saying, if, for example, we we we take someone who is practicing calm abiding or the the concentrations by themselves, then this this this person will probably be be reborn as as as a god within cyclic existence.
He won’t attain liberation. He won’t attain enlightenment. So then if one is practicing calm abiding meditation, which is a path which is common, as Geshe-la was explaining, it is a teaching or training, a path which is common to both Buddhist and non-Buddhist teachings, traditions. So if one is practicing the calm abiding meditation by itself, then one will eventually reach the very first concentrations. And having reached the very first concentrations, the first, the second, the third and the fourth, then if one then practices to that, to one of those levels, one will be reborn as a god in the formless realms, and if one keeps on practicing, then one will eventually reach the concentrations of the formless realms, and one will be born as a god of the formless realms.
Didn’t the Buddha reach enlightenment through Kalapa-sadim meditation? So then, yes, a calm abiding is necessary, but not that that common teaching calm abiding. Yes, a calm abiding meditation is something that you just absolutely cannot go without, but one must not practice that calm abiding teachings which are common to the other traditions. Those that are those calm abiding teachings which are common to other traditions do not involve refuge, do not involve renunciation, do not involve the mind of enlightenment, they do not have the correct view of emptiness. So they are practiced only for the sake of attaining happiness for oneself alone, attaining happiness, the happiness of the gods of higher realms.
But on the other hand, the the the Buddhist calm abiding, it involves all that. You must have in order to practice the Buddhist calm abiding, you must have Oh. Refuge, you must have renunciation, the mind of enlightenment, and then you practice calm abiding on the view of emptiness, or you practice calm abiding in relation to the the to the enlightened deities and so forth. Explaining that when one is practicing Samatha, which again Geshe-la says is something that you just cannot go without, it’s absolutely necessary, but when one is practicing, then before one gives rise to the motivation of enlightenment. And having given rise practicing Samatha for the sake of attaining enlightenment, then that Kama Bodhi meditation is going to turn into the cause of enlightenment itself.
On the other hand, if one is practicing Samatha and one has developed the motivation to attain liberation, again that calm abiding meditation is going to turn into the cause of attaining liberation. Now if one is practicing calm abiding only for the sake of attaining the great bliss and happiness of Gods and humans, then Geshe-la said that’s not alright. Yes? Is the happiness or the pleasures that we experience in cyclic existence, is that as a result of the positive karma we’ve done in the past? And I guess is the problem that if we’re not renounced to it, is it that we sort of spend all our money in the bank and we’re not creating new karma, positive karma?
Guess the first part of it first. We’re not creating any more new positive karma while we’re So then, yes, this happiness that we experience as humans and the happiness of of gods, it is a happiness that arises out of having practiced virtue in the past. But as as Geshe-la was explaining, it is a contaminated virtue or it’s called contaminated virtue. Explains then that we have not realized emptiness. We have not realized selflessness.
And then so because of that, we are we are constantly overpowered by the ignorance of the self grasping mind, and we we do everything that we do we do whilst we are overpowered by the self grasping mind. So then everything that we do is then contaminated in this way, And then good or bad contaminated virtue and non virtue. And then on the other hand, if if one has then realized emptiness, then whatever one does, then it’s it’s not contaminated, uncontaminated. Okay. Yes?
When we are attracted Beautiful. Look at that. I saw this snake in in the garden over there. He said, I said, because we saw it, he followed us. So what was the question again?
So when when one in order to counteract attachment to objects of attachment, then one must see the default or the shortcomings of the object of attachment. One must see shortcomings of that mind of attachment itself. One must understand, as Geshe-la was explaining, that when one sees an object of attachment, one thinks immediately, oh, that’s good But then one must understand that that object is not good on itself, by itself, it’s just because we are labeling it good, because we label it, we how to say impute. We also from our side, we impute it to be good, we assume it to be good. So we must see the faults in this way.
The snake. It’s not coming. It’s what I get what I say. It’s gonna come inside. Beautiful snake.
Oh, do you say? He he has been here five times before, and he and this is the first time that he saw us here. This is really special. Auspicious. Well, I’m that Okay.