Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 49-minute Q&A, Ven Robina Courtin opens with a sharp challenge: is killing a suffering kangaroo to help humans with malaria compassionate? She develops the Buddhist view that all sentient beings possess minds that fear suffering, then explores how intention—not action—determines karma. A key meditation problem: feeling worse during practice may be healthy purification, like muscles aching after exercise, not degradation. Through attachment as neediness, anger as panic, and depression as aversion, she argues wisdom and compassion must work together—compassion without wisdom often causes more harm than good. She closes with Buddhism’s two core meditation practices: concentration (steadying the mind on breath) and analytical meditation (thinking things through until you experience truth directly). The approach is sharp and direct, suited to practitioners ready for challenge.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 2011 09 08 02 – session2 8.43pm.mp3
UUID: efe2a599-9930-4b2f-b7b2-dee9aac79cd6
Teacher: Ven Robina Courtin
Collection: z Robina Courtin 2011 – too hard (Ven Robina Courtin)
Date: 2011-09-08
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 49.2 minutes
Words: ~8,311
Discussion. Given that the kangaroo’s mind can continue, which is all that Buddha is saying. I’m not asking you to believe it. I’m just simply proposing it. And I’ve got to until I know the truth of it, I’ve got to act according to this, you know, and then do everything I can in my power to lessen the suffering of that sentient being.
Does that make sense? That’s all I can try and do. You know? Yeah. What about them?
So then yeah. And that’s true. That’s where that’s where the practice of compassion comes in. And the cultivation of this wish to want to benefit sentient beings wherever and whenever we can. That’s what they mean by bodhicitta, isn’t it?
There’s a huge aspiration to never give up taking the responsibility to want to benefit beings. To take away what, darling? Some people do indeed. Yes. That’s right.
Excuse me. Each individual has to make their own choices, don’t they? There’s no big each individual makes their choice, don’t they? But you see the Buddhist view also, forget about no. Know.
According to the Buddhist view, you see, that’s individual’s minds. I mean, you might, I might, but that’s but that’s not a general principle here, is it? Talking to this gentleman. What’s your name? Gary.
Thanks, Gary. So the thing is too, the Buddhist view would say there are trillion isn’t it? We don’t have to need Buddha to say it, but there are trillions of other beings like insects and tiny creatures who drown when you make, you know, when you when you grow the rice, you get cut into pieces when you do your gardening, who get driven on when you go to the veggie shop. In the organic gardens, they’re the worst of all. You bring in this creature to eat that creature so you get a nice carrot.
That’s really sinister. So the Buddha would say there’s trillions of sentient beings all suffering even if you never eat meat, still trillions of sentient beings suffering, and all we can do is attempt to not harm them including the ants and the worms and the tiny creatures and the mosquitoes and all the rest. Because they’ve all got a mind, they all don’t wanna suffer, and they all wanna be happy. So attempt never to harm a living being, any kind. This is the general idea, you know, the Buddhist approach.
Are we communicating, Gary? Okay. Anyone else have didn’t get to your end part yet, but go on. Beth. Great a good way.
That’s right. That’s right. Exactly. That’s right. That’s right.
That’s right. Exactly. That is that sounds pretty good logic, doesn’t it? But you see, I think that’s coming from the viewpoint, which is, excuse me, with respect here, coming from all the other creator religions that don’t value even animals. They don’t even have a soul.
According to the Christian teachings, you know, according to my Catholic upbringing, God made the kangaroos and the ants and the whoever for our use. And if they’re no use, we can run the show. We can kill them all. So that’s to me, and then as we’re carrying that over to the materialist view, The Buddha has the view that everyone is a sentient being, and the mosquito of this life was a human of last life, you know. The human of this life will become a mosquito of next life.
So looking at the bigger picture, you know, if I look in Tibet before the Chinese communist came in and mucked up the country, they didn’t have such a thing as environmental they didn’t use a word. It was a natural thing for them to behave nicely and not abuse the environment, steal and lie and kill and smash the animals. They say even the wild animals were almost peaceful. They’d spend hours releasing a worm from somewhere because they valued all of life. And so therefore, interesting, Tibet never was unbalanced.
They never I mean, Tibetan medical system is extremely sophisticated in an old fashioned way using herbs and all this business and using knowing the body. They didn’t need to do those kinds of experiments because they had other ways of healing. So it’s just our materialist world, isn’t it, coming from the Christian background that ends up thinking this way, therefore not valuing mosquitoes, therefore using them as you say to help starving children. Tibetans never had to do this. You know?
So I mean, there’s a whole world view, isn’t it? Coming from a very different series of assumptions. It’s tough one to get through. Keep gotta keep looking at the assumptions every time, and that’s based on this assumption, which is based on this assumption, you know? So I want us to go right back.
Which life, where, what, Gary? What are you saying? What’s this? So what’s the point you’re making, Gary? We do indeed.
We do. Yeah. That’s right. Yes. That’s right exactly.
Not do what, darling? Not do what? Which one? I’m missing you a bit. I’m so sorry Gary.
One has to prioritize. But one has to prioritize, Gary. What do you mean in in relation to what though, darling? Sorry. The kangaroo.
Yeah. Saving killing the kangaroo. That’s right. Yes. I understand that.
Well, that’s but I don’t have such grand decisions as that. It’s a very grand priority to make. I don’t think like that. No. No.
But I that’s fine. But everybody doesn’t have to deal about malaria. I don’t have to deal with it. My job is to lead my life as well as I can in the conditions that I’ve got in my life to every second to try not to harm a living being. That’s my priority.
That’s my priority. That’s how I would say it. I’m I’m sure you are, but I’m just giving you the way I’d express mine. So I’m not saying complaining about yours. It’s okay.
Who can’t darling? Do what? Gary, who can’t do what? You’re too grand in your views, know. I can’t come down to earth and be ordinary.
Tell me what Gary can’t do, not we, not we. What Gary can’t do, Gary? I we agreed that you have to in your life when it’s a real decision. That’s perfect. But how often do you have to save malaria patients?
I don’t think it’s part of your job. Well, you might have to. You have to make your decisions, but I’m saying again, all decisions are based upon a view, are based upon what you think. So we have to look at what we think. That’s all.
Do you see my point? So you have to look, go beneath the next level of assumptions and check what you think, and then it’ll come up with a decision. Because it’ll be fundamental fundamental principles that we have to use as a basis for our decisions. So by unpacking our actions, we can come to our assumptions. And by looking at our assumptions, we’re gonna discover what we think.
We have to all do this, this is perfect. Hang on a minute you people over there, this corner is kind of busy. What? Oh shush now. You’re so you’re full of principles.
Good God, come down to earth. Excuse me, I don’t want to be part, I don’t want to be involved in killing you just because death’s part of love. It’s your job to die when you’re ready, okay? That’s right, so back off and mind your own business and let it die naturally then maybe. I’m just saying, I’m just talking.
Stop interfering you know. Go on. It’s a very interesting night, thank you for coming Gary. Yeah, Come on. He didn’t want to speak but now he can’t help it.
Go on, go darling. It’s eight o’clock already. What we’re supposed to have something at seven o’clock? Oh, okay fine. We’ll see what happens.
We’ll see how it feels. Go darling. Right, that’s right. Yeah. Give me an example, sweetheart.
Yes. Yes, yes. Yes, right. Sure. Right.
That’s right. Okay, the one about karma then, coming back right back to the general ideas here. The main factor that determines the karma we create, the word means intention. So if a person sitting in a bus and they see you being, you know, beaten up, and they’re sitting there just thinking, well, I’m a bit nervous. I don’t wanna get involved.
Well, you can look into whatever’s looking whatever they’re doing in their mind is the karma they’re creating. Now if they’re blind and they don’t see it, they’re sitting there thinking of loving thoughts and don’t realize Gary’s been beaten to death, well then clearly they’re not creating negative karma. But if they’re sitting there and he’s being beaten to death and they’re enjoying it, then they’re creating negative karma worse than the beater, you know. So it’s whatever’s in the mind is the karma a sentient being creates. Whatever’s in the mind.
You know? That’s the one. Yeah. Yes. You mean more angry, more annoyed, more fearful, more jealous, more depressed, which one?
All of these? Okay. Okay. Ridiculous. Okay.
It depends on you know, it’s sort of like if you were sitting in let’s say you go to the gym, and you’ve never been to the gym, and you’re overweight and all the muscles are all floppy, and you go starting to get fit. How would you feel when you came home? If you really work hard, how would you feel first time at the gym? You’d feel terrible, wouldn’t you? It’d be awful pain.
So you know it’s not logical to say, oh my god, I’m getting worse, I better stop. Let me finish. Let me finish. Would you agree with that analogy? That that you realize it’s good pain because the because you’re you’re pure you’re fixing yourself.
You get home and you’re full of pain. Would you agree with that thought? Which is that? No, I didn’t say that, did I? I said if you’re doing well, let’s say if you’re doing well at the gym and you really work hard, and you come home, you’ll have a lot of you feel a lot of muscles you never thought you had.
So you know very well it would be not logical to think, oh my god, must stop this bad pain. You know it’s a good pain. You get my point. Now if you’re sitting in the couch doing nothing and feeling that pain, then you’ve got a problem, haven’t you? So in general, I think in general, if you are doing well with your meditation and not doing the pushing, but doing it nicely, and really working on your mind, and really trying to be a better person, and really trying to be compassionate, and patient with a person who irritates you, actually, they even say in the very first stages of meditation that you think you’re getting worse because you feel more agitated.
But it so it could be like the first kind of pain at the gym. But if, like you said, the person at the gym pushing themselves, then it’s a wrong pain. So you’ve got to see whether you’re pushing. And maybe sometimes you just have to relax because maybe we are pushing too hard, and that’s pretty common. Give ourselves a break, you know, and have a good sleep.
Because one time I mean, in terms of the good pain, one of my friends who’d been in years of meditation retreats, And at one point, he’s out of his brain with kind of rage and anger, talk about agitation. He was really distressed. And he went to see Lama Zopa, and Lama Zopa laughed and laughed. He said, great. Fantastic.
The dirt has to come out. So it we have to be assessing ourselves reasonably. And I think you know yourself well enough. You’ve got the wisdom to see that if you are pushing, honey, stop meditating. Give yourself a break.
Go and have a holiday. Look at the sky. Eat a nice meal. Because unfortunately, the pushing part when it comes to spiritual, we get a bit fundamentalist, you know. We we are our own worst enemy sometimes, and that’s just plain dumb.
Really not appropriate. So I think in in your heart, you know the answer. Don’t you? About yourself, for example. There you go.
No. But you’d you’d see the person, wouldn’t you? No. So I think we have to be it’s gotta be skillful, you know. Because we are we get a bit sort of fanatic and then go push too hard and then break a bone, break a muscle, you know.
It’s dumb. But it’s gotta be have enthusiasm. Let’s practice the same. Have enthusiasm but have a long term view as well, you know. And then and I think rejoice, delight in our progress.
Delight in how far we’re getting. That makes a big that kind of softens us, you know. We push ourselves too neurotically. It’s ridiculous. I agree.
Someone else? As a Buddhist, what you’re trying to do, one approach, is being you know, like I’m quoting Lama Yeshe, being your own therapist, okay? And that means really, as we talked last weekend actually, really understanding the nuts and bolts of the Buddha’s model of the mind. He says we’ve got these positive states of mind, are at the core of our being, which we can develop to a stunning degree. Okay?
And then we’ve got these negative states of mind, which break our hearts, which are the source of our pain. The fundamental one in day to day life is this bottomless pit of dissatisfaction which manifests itself as neediness, which craves cakes and this and boys and jobs and blah and praise, especially, and all these things. This is attachment. It’s a cute word, but for a very profound mental illness. We’re never satisfied, always craving for more, always wanting more, always dissatisfied, and it’s just heartbreaking.
And then the second it doesn’t get what it wants, it’s called anger. But anger goes out, and you want a punch in the nose, or anger goes in, and you call it depression. So it’s internalized aversion. And which which is basically when something something doesn’t go right, this kind of the mind is distressed and fearful and despairs and just becomes hopeless and goes in, becomes inert. That’s depression.
So the key in Buddhism is to know your mind really deeply and well, and to catch ourselves this thousand times a day and seeing where we’re heading. But our trouble in our materialist culture, we don’t have methods for looking at the mind, and so we don’t think to look until you’re so bad you can’t get out of bed one morning. Then you gotta go find the therapist and get the pills. You know? But if we would catch our mind every moment, then we can be so skillful to the event to the point where we don’t have to go screaming out and punching and kicking or go in and wanna kill yourself.
You catch it before and you learn to work with it. That’s the real result of good practice. You understand? But meanwhile, we’ve got a body, and the, you know, the imbalance of the chemicals is the the materialist view of saying what what’s wrong, then sure, take your Prozac. It’s cool.
You know? But you go to your Tibetan doctor, he’ll instead he’ll feel your pulses, and he’ll feel your subtler physical energies. Oh, we’re being such an imbalance there. And they’ll give you your herb pills, which will calm the physical thing down, which will then help your mind more clearly. So we we’ve got a body.
We’ve got to take after it as well. You know? But the mind is so for the Buddhist approach, take your Prozac. Calm the physical crazy energies down. Now you can begin the job of looking at your mind.
The real job starts, you know. You understand? Does that make sense? Okay. Someone back there?
Somebody else? In the distance? Or is it back to Gary? Yes, honey. What?
This is what I said now. Just what I said exactly. Uh-huh. Sure. That’s right.
But the key point still is that the mind isn’t the key point still though is the mind isn’t the brain, the Buddha’s view, and depression is not physical. Depression is merely the a name of for a state of mind that’s triggered by a certain level of physical imbalance. The physical imbalance is that. The depression is the mind. It’s a certain state.
It’s internalized aversion and anger. And that’s quite hard to see. And that’s what the Buddha’s dealing with being your own therapist. Then you learn to I beg your pardon? That’s a good word.
Yeah. Buddha would like that word. Yep. I beg your pardon, darling? Buddha would agree with you there as well.
Buddha would agree with you. Thank you very much. Anyone else? Yes, darling. Yes.
Okay, sweetheart. Yes. Yes. Yes. I understand, darling.
Yeah. Well, I think it’s all the way the Buddhist view would generally be that until you’ve got to the level of being completely an enlightened being, you’re still gonna have levels of the neuroses. So okay. It’s all a question of degree. So we can so I think of a person, let’s say, who’s, you know, got a lot of kindness, a lot of compassion, but also a lot of attachment and neediness to be loved and approved of.
And that recipe would be a very nice person who’s always trying to help people, but never looks at themself. And they’re so their their compassion is still compassion, but it’s polluted by the the neediness, the you know, which we all have. You know? Or look at the compassion of a mother. That’s completely a classic.
The mother’s first of all, he’s immense attachment for the child, but enormous compassion too. And but the compassion is blinded by the and and miss and often is over exaggerated, and is in is neurotic, is is intervening because the mother’s got so much attachment. Whereas skillful compassion would maybe allow the child to fall because you know they they’ve got to learn themselves, but you’re there watching, you know, careful, skillful. But the attached compassion would leap in and pick them up and all lovey dovey. You understand my point.
So it’s really quite tricky to see. Yeah. When you’ve got less attachment. The Buddhist view, the wisdom wing, the wisdom wing and the compassion wing, it’s really nice. And what’s so fascinating, the Buddhist approach, is that wisdom and happiness come together.
So the approach to get happy is to remove from your mind the neuroses, like attachment and anger and fear and jealousy, which cause you suffering, but they also cause you not to have wisdom. So as you lessen these neuroses, you get happiness and wisdom, because they literally blind you. The attachment of the mother blinds her from seeing really what’s right for the child. She leaps in with her attached compassion. So you you have to know as you practice.
When you’re practicing grade one, if you don’t know that you’ve accomplished it, well you haven’t got a clue, really. You have to have that wisdom at that level. You’ve got to know. The more you understand the mind, Buddhist view, the more you understand the nature of of attachment, the more you know how as you lessen it, you see clearly, more clearly. You’ve got to know where your own self is at.
Otherwise, we’re in big trouble, aren’t we? I think to know that what is appropriate. Sometimes it’s best to not act. That’s the greatest most compassionate thing if you’ve got the wisdom to see what’s you see, wisdom okay. His Holiness says compassion is not enough.
Or as Lama Zopa puts it, meaning well is not enough. We need wisdom. And the wisdom is the whether it’s the kangaroo example of Gary’s, with compassion, no question. But let’s say even my side, I’m not even very compassionate. Let’s say Gary, definitely compassionate, cannot bear the pain of that kangaroo.
So out of compassion wants to stop the kangaroo’s suffering. Total perfect logic. How could I complain? But the Buddha’s view would say that if you haven’t got the wisdom, in this case, to see the mind of the animal and know what kind of life it will take after it leaves the kangaroo’s body, then it’s not it’s compassion, which is fine for Gary, but he might not help the kangaroo. That’s just the way he would say, you know, not complaining about anybody.
We all do have to do what we have to do, you know. Gary takes responsibility for his life. It’s fantastic. But that’s the wisdom ones, knowing knowing that not only that you want to help that person, but you’ve got the wisdom to know that that action or that non action will help them. You get my point?
That’s a tough one. And we have to all we can do is use the wisdom we’ve got. We can’t be idealistic about it, you know? Yes. No.
Yes. Darling. Yes. That’s right. Yes.
Yes. Uh-huh. Right. Yes. Well, that’s that’s the point I’m trying to make to Gary.
This is the Buddhist explanation. Gary doesn’t have to accept it or believe it or even he could even think it’s stupid, but that would be the Buddhist thinking. Yes. That’s what’s one is attempting to do. Well, you you’ve done an action out of compassion, which is good for you.
You create good karma, but the action you did mightn’t have been so wise, and actually in the end, the sentient being suffered even more. And we all see in our daily life, we do this. We mean well, but we make a mess in the end because we’re not wise enough to make the right decision. We’re not wise enough to give the best advice. So it’s the idea of having wisdom here that we’re discussing as well as compassion.
Compassion already is amazing. You know, I mean, I remember one time, Gary, driving down the Pacific well, ages ago, this is forty years ago, driving down the road, you know, between Sydney and Melbourne on the beach with a bunch of friends. And this we saw this goanna crossing the road, And this truck coming from the other direction, he swerved to hit Goanna. We could not believe this poor Goanna, you know. It was that was that was I mean, I couldn’t believe that evil people, you know, like harming sentient beings is so terrible.
It’s heartbreaking. Gary, it’s good. It’s obviously a topic for you, so you go for it. Yeah. Good Gary, go for it.
Sure thing. Yes, that’s right. Unbelievable. I’m sure, yes, hideous. No, those sheep, wasn’t it?
That’s right. The terrible things that we do to animals. I if we’re talking about what we do to animals, I agree. The suffering is unbearable. It’s evil just to use for our own food.
It is evil. You’re right. It’s just appalling. I agree. Yes.
There is a wisdom. Yes. Well, I couldn’t agree more if you try and stop the sheep from any action we can do to help listen. The bottom line has to be that anything we can do to alleviate the pain of sentient beings, but it has to be based on wisdom, we do our best. Gary, all we can do is our best, darling.
But surely that reaction of that woman is sort of. That’s good. But she didn’t That was wisdom. That was acting wisdom. But, of course, it’s wonderful.
I couldn’t complain about that. We’re not discussing that. We’re discussing whether we have the wisdom to kill. That’s all. That’s a different discussion.
Whether I have the wisdom to see them. The simple point I’m discussing here, not to not have compassion for animals, not to rush out and even give my life for animals. Of course, anything you can do. I mean, you hear the stories of these Buddhist yogis who allow one old monk in Dharmasala allows this creature to live in his nose, eating away at his bone because he’s compassionate. Lama Zopa would feed his blood to the fleas and his socks.
He would have his shirt over his head at night during the summer in the rainy season, his attendant would go with a cup of tea, and these lamas are meditating, and the mozzies are eating him alive. Now honey, that’s compassion. Different levels of compassion. He’s feeding his body to the mozz mosquitoes, you know. So different ways of talking about compassion.
There you go, that’s right. Different ideas. What else people? Yeah. They don’t they don’t go around killing them, but they don’t kill.
No. That’s not the Buddha’s. We’re just talking ordinary things here. That’s not the Buddha’s view. But that’s okay.
That’s different. It’s not the same, it’s it’s different. Own your own ideas, don’t dump them on Buddha. Sweetheart, sweetheart, say it, but don’t say it’s the same as the Buddha, you’re incorrect. She doesn’t wanna hear it.
She just can’t better hear it. Look. It’s different, darling. It’s different, sweetheart. It’s different.
It’s different. That’s all. So just own your own ideas. Don’t get into the Buddha. It’s cool.
They didn’t. They slaughtered animals. Excuse me. Don’t be so romantic. They didn’t.
They killed animals all the time, and they didn’t. They killed all these white people. Don’t be ridiculous. I’m not saying they’re wrong, but excuse me, if you kill. Okay, I’m being provocative, what a provocative night, a fascinating night.
Excuse me, be careful what you say. We romanticize people. What’s your name, darling? Kate. Can I suggest, just remind you Kate?
Just wanna say, I don’t care what Buddha says to anybody else, we can all do what we like. The Buddha would say, can you please listen to me, Kate? The Buddha would suggest that you don’t harm any living being. And get Kate, did you hear that word? That includes the buffalo.
That includes the white man. That includes everybody. So just it’s a point for your mind to think about Kate to meditate on. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
Would anybody else like to ask a question please in this very interesting evening? Yes, where are you? Patrick? Who used that word? Oh, the suffering, causing suffering, yeah.
Sure. Yeah. I know, I never use it actually, it’s very odd that I said it. Know, never use it. But go on.
What’s that? Why a person harms another? Yeah. Attachment. So if we look at the lion, the lion mummy, why she goes and rips the guts out of the buffalo for breakfast.
The Buddhist analysis of it would be this, was Buddhist psychology refers to all living beings. Okay? That she’s overwhelmed by this intense attachment, craving like a junkie to get her blood, and she’s got this very massive, very skillful killing machine of a body with good claws and speed and power that enables her to get what she wants. Therefore, she’s completely blinded to the suffering that she’s causing the buffalo. She simply is incapable.
Now look at our minds when you’re angry, and you scream at that person. Someone else can watch them crying and burst into tears and see the pain we’re causing. But as we’re so angry because our attachment is so offended, we just can’t see the harm we’re causing. So that also comes from ignorance, of course. So any strong aggression, which is based on strong attachment, blind us from seeing sentient beings, and that’s why we harm each other.
So ignorance is at the root of it. Yes. Whether it’s the lion ripping out the guts of the buffalo for breakfast or me punching someone in the nose, you know. Primordial sense of self gives rise to massive attachment, which gives rise to the aggression that you will utilize to get what you want, therefore harm others. And we’re blind to it.
We just can’t see. The fisherman who loves fishing, you know. A friend of mine who’s her boy went fishing all his life, she said, and she hated it. But she never complained because she didn’t wanna be rude to her boy. And he asked her one time to come fishing with her.
She went in the boat, and she and he’s blissed out by fishing. All his life, he’s been fishing, killing all there’s all these fish hopping in the boat, you know, and there they are flapping around in the nets. And because she doesn’t kill and she has compassion, she all she sees is suffering. All she can see nakedly is the fish would rather be in the water, please. But her boy who’s really loving and really kind and really genuine and intelligent cannot see suffering because his own massive attachment and addiction to doing this has blinded him from seeing the fish suffer.
He just sees dinner, you know. So it depends on what’s in our minds. And it’s the delusions, attachment, and anger, and fear that blind us from doing the good things, and that’s why we harm each other. So it’s rooted in ignorance. Do you understand?
This is the Buddhist explanation. So as you lessen the neurosis, so you get more happiness and joy and fulfillment and love, and you get more wisdom. You see people more clearly. That’s the interesting point. Know?
Do you understand? Yeah. Anger and fear. Yes. Well, fear is rooted fear is the is the taste of all of them.
Ignorance is the root. In this hierarchy of Buddhist psychology, the primordial delusion is called, unawareness. This primordial primordial grasping at the sense of self. So fear is its natural state. I talk in Buddhism about the fears of saṃsāra.
It’s just a Buddha Buddhist word for suffering is saṃsāra. So it means that its nature you know when we are attacked by somebody, and what we call instinct for survival would arise? Buddha would call it ego grasping. This primordial sense of self completely panic stricken that gives rise to massive attachment, which gives rise to anger and all the rest. They’re all rooted in fear.
They’re rooted in fear. So as Lama Zopa says, once you’ve realized emptiness, once you’ve gone beyond all this, there is no fear. There’s only clarity and bliss, and then ability to see clearly what beings need and the ability to help them perfectly. Okay, very good. Okay.
Sure. Yes, yes. Uh-huh. Sure. Sure.
Fear the Buddhist view of fear in the Buddhist explanation of the mind, that fear is the very nature of all the unhappy states of mind. They’re all rude. You look at the look at what anger is. Observe a person getting angry. Their eyes are wide with horror.
What are they saying? This can’t be possible. How can this happen? It’s like John McEnroe. What would he say?
No. Now what would John McEnroe say? This cannot be what would he say? No. This cannot be happening.
That’s the voice of anger. It’s like anger is this absolute panic when the thing you can’t bear is right in front of you. It’s like What, darling? Tennis after you. Must be some good end.
In being angry. No. He probably played even better if he didn’t get angry. But your fear is in the but we’re so used to it. You know?
But look at all the panic attacks we have every day. This is mild versions of fear, you know, that’s all. This is panic attacks, you know. That’s fear. If there’s no delusions, there’s no anger, there’s no jealousy, no depression, no ego grasping, and Buddha says that’s what our potential is, then the mind is literally clear and wise and blissful, but not boring.
It can be very strong, be very powerful, be very brave, but there’s no fear. Even as you’re drowning, there’d be no fear. That’s we can’t conceive of that in our materialist models of the mind. Would be it sounds insane, you know? It sounds like you’re mentally ill.
But fear is the natural state of all the delusions. Just why we suffer so much, because it’s fear. Look at us. Ordinary daily life. Depression, anxiety.
Unbelievable. What a fascinating night. God, help me. Yeah, go Gary, say it. Yeah.
Oh yes, right. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Well there you go, it’s probably making the most of it, isn’t it?
Sort of getting the bad out of it, getting some good out of the bad, isn’t it? Don’t you think it means that, doesn’t it? It means that, do you think? That’s an interesting point. Very interesting point.
That’s very interesting. Yeah. Very good. Very interesting. Wow.
So what else folks? Yes? Yep. Sure. You mean about killing?
The lay vows are not killing. So what’s another one that’s difficult to kill? Yes, it is dying. Now don’t be fundamentalist about it, darling. It’s a question of harming people.
So how if you if I cook you a cake and I’m a lousy cake maker, how could it possibly benefit me for you to say, Robina, was a terrible cake. I mean that’s just that’s just being too narrow minded. Pardon? That’s right. Yeah.
But it’s not your job that you I’m I’m, you know, you’re you’re my guest. You might, you know, if you think if you’re close to me, and you really know, okay, this is the point about wisdom. You have to know that what you say to me will help me. No, there won’t be. You do your best every time.
You be brave. We’ve to something, we’ve to fake it till we make it, you know? Come on, that’s what practice is, fake it until we make it. I’m not kidding. Yes?
I understand. You mean the the wishing that they’d bloody go away and leave us alone, these wretched Muslims? Is that what you mean? We dare and say it that way, but is that what we mean? I know.
But the thing is, think they say the number of refugees on boats is about sort of millions of percent of all the refugees that come into this country legally. So what do we say? Just because they make a big noise. We get panicked. It’s a bit irrational.
I know. We have to just look into our look into our minds, darling, and be rational and clear and be intelligent and try and come. I mean, no, that’s right. That’s right. Uh-huh.
I just think that’s the that’s the fee, you see, that’s the one. If they were English, I mean if we’re white people, are we all white people here? No, we’re not. But you know, if it’s your family, which is white people, and we see a bunch of English migrants coming on a boat, I’m not so sure we get so fearful. It’s only because we see foreigners.
I mean we’re just all very narrow minded naturally, you know. You know, the Chinese have the rudest words for white people. I mean, they do. They’re most terrible words for white people. You know, we’re all racist.
We all like our people, you know. As long as they like us and have pink hair or blue eyes or whatever it is, we think, oh, that’s my people. This is how we are, and our delusions rise up, you know. This is how we are. We’re human, you know.
Yeah. Oh. But it was spinning. Yes. And and the artist said that.
You go. I understand, darling. I think all these things I mean, life every day brings something, you know. I mean, our pretty blissful life is true. Every now and again, someone will disturb our peace.
Aren’t we fortunate? God. Yes, Kate. What would you like to tell me? There you go, good, I hope so.
Well, let’s hope. Well done, sounds pretty good. Yes, darling? Yep. Decisions.
Yes. Yes, for example. Whatever. Uh-huh. Right.
Okay. The Buddha’s view, generally speaking, like I’m saying, is there are trillions. They say that Buddha would say there’s not an atom of space where you won’t find sentient beings. Here, atom of space. All the air under our armpits is like a zoo, apparently.
You know? In our bodies, we know everywhere you go, there are beings. They’re all minds for the Buddha. They’re all beginningless minds. They’ve all been humans countless times, and dogs countless times, and horses countless times, and whales countless times, and all kinds countless times.
So then your question? But there’s no punishment here, is there? No one’s doing it to us, are they? No. So then your question is?
How does how does an animal an animal Kate’s gonna get very upset now. Kate will get very upset about this one. That’s okay. Animals haven’t got a chance in hell of doing anything. They might if let’s say one yes.
Dogs maybe create some good karma because they’re helping humans in spite of themselves. But the old lions out there and all the fishes eating each other and slaughtering and the spiders is driven by this nightmare that they live in where they have to survive, so they’re all harming each other out of fear and panic. So there’s no virtue. There can’t be. But they’ve got human imp they’ve got imprints of virtue from fifty two lives ago.
And eventually, that karmic track will run out, and one of their human karmas will ripen again, like us. We’ve all been lions and dogs countless times too. Buddha says, you know. I mean, it’s the nuttiest idea, I agree with you. I’m just stating what he says.
I’ve gotta be consistent in my views, you know. I’m trying to be take Buddha’s view as my full you know, as my hypothesis, not just take what I think is nice and leave the rest, that’s just cheap, you know. Yes. You mean a mean ugly bloke who hits your wife and everything, you naughty person. Habits.
So you’ve got these habits, and you’ve this person you’re harming now, you’ve got strong karmic connection with her, that’s why you feel compelled to harm her because she’s been mean to you in the past. I use up that that that I mean there is no Clean it up, you mean? Oh, yeah. We did all we did all that last night. We did all that last night.
It’s called purification. There’s no karma you can’t change. There’s no karma you can’t change. So there’s no payback. Don’t say payback.
That sounds so heavy. If you pull out the sweetheart, if you if you have a garden full of weeds, and you keep nourishing the weeds, the analogy for being a bad person, then the weeds, it will come from seeds, and you can stop nourishing them and you can start pulling them out, can’t you? Before they and then you can pull out the seeds before they ripen the next lot. The weeds are there, you do your best. But the ones that haven’t ripened yet, you pull them out before they ripen.
That’s just common sense. That’s purification. Every okay. Again, using the simple logic of seeds and fruits, every moment of happiness is this is the finishing of that seed. And every fruit, every moment of suffering is the finishing of that seed.
So the practitioner who say can’t change the situation will then interpret the suffering as a result of karma, therefore will learn to be kind of okay, you deal with it. You you kind of, you know, that’s it. You’re you’re happy. I remember a rabbi, a Kabbalah rabbi, and they have the view on karma. Okay?
I did this conference in Miami years ago, and the topic was why do bad things happen to good people? And I did the business about karma, and he clapped. He said, oh, we agree. And then he puts up crass jokes about Hitler and that I mean, just Jews don’t do that, you know. Anyway, he did.
And he said, we have a saying. He says, every bad thing that happens, you think great. One less debt to repay. So it’s sort of like that. You learn to get brave in the face of suffering.
You know it’s the fruit getting you’re getting rid of the rubbish, you know. If you can change it, go for it, change it. Yeah. Fascinating night. So you mean new people came just because it said question answer?
How fascinating. I can’t believe it. Kate, no, it’s not your turn. Shush. Someone else.
Kate. Kate. God almighty. You wanna come up here Kate, would you like the chair, Kate, would you like the chair? And the mic.
What’s your question? What do you mean by small beings, children? Well done. Sounds good to me. Go for it.
That’s good. Perfect. Would anybody else like to say something or ask a question or give a teaching? What, darling? Yep.
Who are you? What’s your name? My name is Scott. Well, I’m happy to meet you. Go on.
Yes. Talk to me. We could later. Yeah. So tell us what you wanna say.
Yeah. That’s right. That’s right. There’s two kinds of meditation according to Buddha. Millions of techniques.
But once you know the two styles, you you know what you’re doing. And the first one, which is the crucial one, which is the one I was previously discussing before, coming straight from the Hindus, Buddha took them from them, you know, but they’re happy to share. It’s constant this marvelous way to focus the mind, to go beyond all the insanity and the craziness, and to plumb the depths of one’s own mind to get to the more subtle level, where one can really do the deconstructing of all the misconceptions and actually get some realizations. It’s a it’s a highly sophisticated psychological technique. It’s totally marvelous, and anyone could do it.
Communists should do it, you know, because it ain’t religious. It’s just this technique. It’s the mind. It’s marvelous. Then the the second kind is called Yeah.
Watching your was watching your breath’s a good start. Watching your breath is you gotta learn to focus on something. The simple idea is we can see our mind now is all over the place like a dog’s breakfast like my grandma used to say, or maybe it’s a duck’s breakfast, I can never work it out. Probably dog. Anyway, our mind is berserk.
We know this. From the second we wake up, it’s on we’re on a train a thousand miles an hour till we fall asleep exhausted. And we all go in the west, that’s normal. Well, Buddha says it’s mental illness, dear. And he says, we’ve got some techniques here that he’s used himself, that the Hindus have used, that are simply into in intelligent skills that enable you to focus the mind.
So the first start to do is you gotta focus on something and attempt to not follow the thoughts. You can’t make them all go away. They’re all crazy like a million you know, you got a million kind of roommates in your head, flatmates in your head all raging on. The angry voices, the jealous voices, and the fearful voices, and the kind ones, and the loving ones, all mixed together. You understand?
So our job is not to make them go away, that’s foolish. It’s to decide you’re gonna watch something, so you take the breath as a start. The it there’s there’s a sensation here. And for three minutes, you start with determination like you’re not gonna miss one breath. You watch it go in and you watch it go out.
Okay. Second breath, already you’re off following the thoughts. So you bring it back like a ridiculous person onto the breath again, and slowly you develop this skill. There may be one minute, two minutes, and then guess what? The thoughts, if you don’t argue with them all and feed them all, they begin to kinda soften a bit, you know.
Slowly slowly. So then you start to get clarity from this a little bit, and almost immediately one of the benefits will come from this technique is not even so much concentration, but the miracle of miracles is you’ll step back from the craziness, and and the intelligence inside is like the awareness that’s the boss in there if you like, is watching more objectively. So then guess what? You bring this to bear in your daily life, and before in another situation where the words would have vomited out your mouth because you didn’t notice your thoughts, here you’re actually noticing your thoughts, and you grab it and stop it before it comes out. How fantastic.
You understand my point? It brings the ability to be more clear to step back and to see the chaos. And then even even better than this, even better, even more better than this is that you start to less we right now, I identify. If I hear angry thoughts, I am so angry. If I hear depressed thoughts, I am so depressed.
But you loosen the grip a little bit, and you just see angry thoughts, oh, shut up, Joe. Go quiet. Just lie down to bed. You know, you hear a depressed one, you give her a little bit of a boost. You’re alright, sweetheart.
There’s some wisdom in there that begins to talk to these crazy people, which are your roommates, which we they’re not you. They’re just there, you know, and slowly you give them less power. And guess what? The kindness and the wisdom and the clarity in this begins to grow stronger. That’s the practical process of getting enlightened.
It’s a practical psychological technique. You know? That makes sense? Buddha’s a very cute guy. You know?
He’s a very wise person. I mean, who am to say he’s wise? It shows I’m wise. How arrogant of me. But I think I think Buddha’s cool, quite frankly.
So sensible. The second kind is called insight meditation. And so the classic approach in this Indian Buddhist, Mahāyāna Buddhist approach, it’s really it’s a dis you know, they call it in Tibetan Buddhism analytical meditation. But it’s a very fancy phrase for the verb to think. So basically, as Beth very sweetly pointed out before, she’s come from being a zen person for centuries.
She’s now gotten to the better, and she said, well, I’m a bit confused about analytical meditation. I shouldn’t say that, but analytical meditation sounds to me like thinking. And I said, well done. Because that’s all it is. So what you’re trying to do, what we’re doing here verbally between all of us, we’re nutting things out.
And how do you learn maths? But you do that. You hear the simple principles, you go home and nut it out. But look what happens when you nut it out. What you know, if your teacher says one plus one is two, you haven’t got a clue.
Right? She says, go to your homework. What does she want you to do? Two things. She wants you to get she wants you to think it through, therefore to verify it, and and then to have the experience yourself of it.
Would you agree with that? Well, that’s what we’re trying to do here. So Buddha’s view is that there’s this, the mind is this, and karma, this, all his stuff, his worldview. You’re trying to familiarize your mind with this until eventually you make it your experience, and then you will discover one of two things. Either your teacher is wrong, and one and one isn’t two.
Buddha is wrong about what he’s suggesting because you now see the truth, and you will say and then as the Dalai Lama says, if you can if you discover directly from your own experience that Buddha is wrong, you must reject him. So we’re trying to verify and experience what Buddha says. And an enlightened mind is a one whose mind is in sync with the Buddha and sees the world as it is in the way he’s saying it is, and they prove that’s how it is from their direct experience. That’s the point. That’s what we’re trying to do.
Are we communicating people? So it’s up to us. It’s up to us. We’re the boss. Buddha’s not the boss.
Do you think it’s enough? So for those who wanna be holy, we’re gonna segue as Americans say, I don’t I don’t think it’s the right word, segue into Americans love that word. Kate must like it. That’s the way. We can now stop for two minutes, have a go and have a pee pee, or do a cup of tea or something.
If you want, then we can do this little bit of medicine Buddha for Lama Lhundrup who passed away. If you’d like to do this. If not, goodbye, and I’ll see you next year, or next week, or tomorrow, whatever you want. So for the finish, that’s just the finish of this part of the program. Alright, people?
Yep. Okay.