Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 26-minute session, Ven Robina Courtin explores identity through the example of “Audrey,” explaining how the sense of self is merely a conventional label, then traces what happens at death: the subtle consciousness persists, carrying karmic imprints into rebirth. For awakened practitioners, meditation access to this consciousness brings intentional choice; for ordinary beings, rebirth follows karma unconsciously. The teaching pivots into a direct debate on social justice, with Robina arguing that laws cannot force inner change without minds transformed through compassion. She emphasizes keeping practice authentic, staying in touch with genuine emotion—anger, jealousy—rather than cultivating artificial “holiness.” The talk closes with detailed Chenrezig visualization for purifying karma and obstacles. For practitioners with some Buddhist familiarity.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 02 1998 10 30 WM.mp3
UUID: 380a0a2e-2149-4231-8023-08ab7a7dfacd
Teacher: Ven Robina Courtin
Collection: y Wisdom Mind (Ven Robina Courtin)
Date: 1998-10-30
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 26.3 minutes
Words: ~3,773
What’s the point then? Think about it. Audrey, what’s it going? No, know you’re not. It’s very sincere.
Know that. What you something subtle does go on. The very subtle level of your consciousness? Well, I guess, I’m just sort of intensely curious about that. Because because to me Uh-huh.
That does relate back to the notions we’ve been talking about, about impermanence, about emptiness, about the fact that there is literally this is proof that there’s potential to to make different decisions in a practical level because we’re capable of changing, because we’re not fixed. Sure. So then So me, it does relate then not fixed. Go on. What are you talking about?
Not an answer to what? What’s your question? There’s answers to everything, Audrey. Of course, it’s a conventional you, just a conventional darling. There’s no Listen, there’s no Audrey, I am saying it is you, but there’s you who is only a conventional you, there’s no Audrey ness.
Audrey finished! Well, listen to me then! Well, listen, wait, you’re being nihilistic about it. Audrey is simply a label for this particular package of certain characteristics that we can discriminate between and no, it’s not Dani, because we can see it’s different, it’s a different package. So by the time you stop breathing, already all the conceptual level of who Audrey is, concept of who she is, I’m this and I’m that, born from this mother, these experiences, and these politics, and these loves, and this hates, and this art, and this music, all of this, all of this has gone, gone, gone, ceased, finished completely.
Only what is left of all that is reverberations or imprints of whatever Audrey did left on this subtle consciousness. There’s no longer evidence of Audrey, Audrey’s finished. Then the mind, when it stops breathing, is still in the body, a couple of days before it leaves, but it goes through this gradual process of getting even more subtle. So, is what they call the subtle consciousness, which is now what we usually experience during dreams, this is now active and so even all this keeps getting thrown off and gets ever more subtle, ever more subtle, to the point where it gets to the subtlest level of your conscious being, beyond which it cannot get subtler, known as the indestructible consciousness or the clear like consciousness, whatever you want to call it, just generally speaking. This is this very subtle consciousness, just words for it because you can’t see it, taste it, touch it, smell it, you know?
It has all the imprints of all the things Audrey has done and all the past beings carried from what’s in Audrey at the moment. This subtle consciousness then, due to the way, due to karma, goes into the intermediate state, which sort of wakes up into a slightly grosser level in the intermediate state, just like a dream, but already it’s programmed for its next life, and even the quality So, okay, by now, by the time it gets into the intermediate state No, even by the time the clear light consciousness is existing, even before it’s left Audrey’s body, there’s no you can say in the conventional sense, there’s no Audrey-ness there at all. There’s no male or female characteristic, or human or animal or any other characteristic, which is the way we think about soul, that is uniquely yours with a human characteristic, which is why Christians would say animals don’t have a soul, right? There’s just these beings made by God for our benefit, which is how we were taught as Catholics, do what we like with them, right? But in Buddhist terms, this subtle consciousness, which is yours, but doesn’t have any ordinary nature, has no human nature, has no male nature, has no female nature, it now is this very subtle building block, if you like, that’s impermanent, that changes from moment to moment, that is empty, that doesn’t exist from its own side, doesn’t have an inherent nature.
It now still has these characteristics, and now due to what karma has ripened at the time Audrey died, she’s already sown the seed, which will now ripen as the new life of the new person. It could be as a dog, if she’s been very negative, could be as a male scorpion, a female bird, a spirit, a hell being, whatever the way the consciousness, which is the bare building block, will now form into a new form, a new being, according to karma. So now it’s this new person. Sort of like, one minute this material is a cup, and then you recycle it and it turns into a little house for a bee, or something. I mean, just, you know, takes a new form.
Because he kept his memory. When you’re a highly evolved being, and you access the subtle consciousness during your meditation, and eventually can keep that alive, in other words, when you stop breathing, the gross person has ceased, but because you’ve accessed your subtler consciousness in meditation, which is the real level of your being, if you wish, then you’re all the time aware, and so you even choose, I will now die, I will now go into that womb, you choose exactly to do what you do, you have complete volition. So you don’t lose The description you just gave before was What description? Oh, it’s ordinary people. I’m not talking about highly evolved people, this is an ordinary person.
But nevertheless, still the subtle consciousness of Lama Zopa doesn’t have a male or female nature either, but he chooses to do what he wants with it. He’s already programmed his mind, can have choice, he can have volition completely. So he can, you know, he goes to a subtle level, he stays for a while in a pure realm, and he’s zapped into the new womb of the new mother that he chooses to be born, and off he goes, you know, with awareness, which is why he could crawl up the hill and know who he was. Unless you’ve accessed the subtler level of your consciousness through meditation, you don’t have any control at all, you’ve gotta practice, I mean, just like you go to your driving test, and you haven’t practiced beforehand, you’ve got no control. You’ve gotta practice, then you’ve got control.
That’s a highly developed state, we’re talking here. You have a clearer, Audrey? Right. That’s it. Okay.
Anybody else? On a different tack altogether maybe? Anything at all? Emptiness? The nature of social justice then What’s social justice?
Well, yes, I was just going to say that it’s a word that, you know, it’s a phrase that’s used a lot and I guess, well, my view would be that it is a kind of awareness that things aren’t equal for people and there are underprivileged people So it’s an awareness in certain people’s minds about the need to be kind and compassionate. That’s all you’re talking about. It’s like the presence of compassion and kindness in people’s minds. So what about it? About it would be that sometimes you do get fairly pissed off when you see that certain groups have missed out or that things are not happening.
Exactly. And I use that strong language to emphasise the kind of feeling that comes up in many, many people. In Lama Yeshe’s Introduction to Tantra, I understood that he said, don’t go for, you know, necessarily for communist or socialist systems of living. Look at your own mind constantly because you it’s, I’m not sure if you use the word dangerous then or, there is no way that you can create a system like that unless you’ve all looked at your own individual mind. Right.
Exactly. That’s what Buddhism is saying. Because a so called system is simply the external expression, isn’t it, of individual minds. That’s what it is. Everything comes from mind.
So a system is simply based on the minds that label form it and shape it and do it and act it. So if the minds are very deluded, then it’s a deluded system. If the minds are positive, then the system is positive. And that can only be this way if people have worked on their minds, of course. So, I just want to say very humbly that I might disagree with Lama Yeshe on that because I work Which point do you disagree with?
I disagree with the point that there is that you have to simply work on your mind. He didn’t say simply work on your mind. You’re misunderstanding him. You didn’t even say that before. You’re turning that around now.
He never said simply work on your mind. It’s obvious that if he’s on the Bodhisattva path, he’s not asserting that. If he simply worked on his mind, he wouldn’t be benefiting others, would he? You’re not understanding him properly. It’s obvious, the Bodhisattva path is a person who has developed this wing, which is called wisdom, which is working on your mind, and then you develop this wing, which is putting your money where your mouth is and benefiting others.
That’s what the Bodhisattva Path is, it’s action in relation to other. It’s obvious, Lama Yeshe isn’t saying what you’re saying. It’s action in relation to others. It’s obvious, isn’t it? That’s what compassion is, you act, and that’s what a system is.
If a system is compassionate, then it means many people have come together to benefit others, but it’s come from compassion in the mind, comes from the work those individual people have done on their minds. I can accept that, I really sat there with it, and I thought Well clearly you got it wrong, may I suggest? Yeah. So go back to it and work it out, anyway it’s evident you’re wrong, because Lama Yeshe is obviously a person who isn’t saying that, because his whole life was the one of action for others, he’s a Bodhisattva, he’s on the Bodhisattva Path. Now if you understand what the Bodhisattva Path means, you know it’s action, it’s compassion in action.
So social justice is simply compassion in action. So it’s okay to try to create systems. What do you think? You tell me, just based on what I’ve said. You just said that, action from wisdom.
No, I didn’t say wisdom, I said compassion. It’s obvious. Listen, you work on your mind, don’t you? Let’s say you work on your mind, you become kind and loving, then you have a mouth and you have a body, right? Sure, you.
You use those on the basis of what your mind is doing. Now that’s simply your body and your speech are the expression of your mind, aren’t they? Yep. Right? So if you’re a creep and you’re angry and you’re jealous and you’re paranoid, your fist and your mouth will show it.
If they’re not, then your fist and your mouth, your hand and your body your mouth will show it. Well that’s all a system, quote unquote, is, is a bunch of people acting out what’s in their minds. Think about it, it’s so logical. Do you see? It’s obvious, it’s not existing from its own side, and what a communist system is is a bunch of people who’ve got a bunch of ideas who act them out, so the proof of the pudding is in how they act.
The Dalai Lama is the expression of kindness and love. Any old idiot, non religious person who’s as thick as a post can see that what comes out of his mouth and what comes from his body is kind actions, because that obviously indicates where his mind is at, and that’s the work he has done on his mind. Starts with the mind. Everything is expression of the mind, everything. There’s nothing that isn’t the expression of the mind.
I was just going to say, adding to that, when I worked in the field of EO, what’s EO? Sorry, Equal Opportunity for Girls in Education, laws had to be passed because a certain number of people believed, you know, in a certain number of things like fairness for girls in education and then because of those laws being passed people move How does that make more than what I just said? How’s that extra to what I just said? How’s that extra to what just said? How’s that extra to what I just said?
How come you didn’t hear that I’m basically saying that when I listen to what I just said? I can’t hear. Yeah. Now how come you don’t think it’s there? I guess there is still some thought in my head that what I read was you don’t impose a system.
You can’t impose a system precisely, you can’t force, yes, you cannot impose a system. Yeah, that’s what I was reading about. Well you can’t impose a system, you can’t force a person, that’s what Lama is saying, you cannot force. We think in the West, and you think, you’re even conned by it as well, oh we made legislation, it’s now the law, who cares? If nobody does it, it’s irrelevant, and we get so sucked into believing that it’s now existing as a law, but you can’t make people think that way, you can have as many laws as you like about sexism and racism, but where the change finally comes is in the mind of the person who makes the decision to stop being sexist, and stop being racist.
This is the big con trick, and we’re just duped into believing this, and that’s why in our culture now, in America, in this country, and in the West, we’re overwhelmed by this insane, everything becomes a law, because we think it now becomes real, because it’s a law, but you’re now trying to shove it down someone’s throat, now you must not be racist. Excuse me, it hasn’t made the fraction of difference in America, they’re more racist than ever. Why? Because the karmic imprints for delusion and paranoia and racism are deeply in the minds, and until an individual person makes a conscious decision to change their mind, a billion trillion laws won’t help, which is why communism was an absurd failure, and why our ridiculous democratic cultures are becoming an absurd failure too, because no one takes any notice of laws, just because it’s a law, because I say you must be this way, we go, oh now it’s a law, who cares? Don’t you think that having legislation influences the mind?
It might, my dear, but you check. Lama’s point, you see, Danny, the point Lama is making, which you have to see is true, is that you can’t force. It doesn’t mean you throw the baby out with the bath water and don’t have any laws. This has been two hours of meditation. If you want to be silent then I’ll leave the room.
Why not? You’re hearing the wrong thing. What do you want me to do, be quiet. What do you want me to do, come on, I’m now provoking you. What do you want me to do?
You want me to say nice words and have a quiet voice and smile? No. Yes. I understand that my darling. Yes.
Yes. I would like to have the meditation before Alright. We can do one. I understand. What kind of meditation would you like to do?
What kind of meditation would you like me to do? What do you like to do best? Okay. But before we finish, we can do. Definitely.
I understand. Thank you very much. So somebody else wants to say something before we finish and we can do meditation? Enough. Keep them fresh.
You mean keep not just make them boring, you mean? Well, if you do the same, go and swallow it. I understand you. Mhmm. This really, I think, just means, keeping things fresh.
I think a combination of things. Too much thinking can make you kind of mind knotted sometimes. Just go round and round, you’re not getting any answers, and that’s just bashing your head and it’s not helpful, you know? But at the same time, it’s to keep fresh trying to make everything a fresh experience comes from freshly motivating every day, freshly reminding yourself of why you’re doing it. It is hard, but it is hard.
There is no doubt. It is hard. I’m gonna do meditation soon. What’s wrong, darling? No.
It’s not okay. I wanna hear what she has to say. Good. You’ve got to leave soon? You’re okay for time?
Do it soon. Do you soon? Okay. We’ll finish soon, darling. Of course it’s hard, but this is what the job is.
This is what the job is. This is what your job is, to keep on the ball, on the alert. It’s like anything, any relationship, any job you do, we just get bored because we’re habitual beings, we make things boring, you know. We lose the taste. That’s why we keep changing objects because we’ve got to get excited again, but somehow this is part of the job of learning to look at every day, seeing your mind every day, looking at every day freshly every day, motivating every day, slowly an experience comes.
Motivation in the beginning is only intellectual. You wake up in the morning and practice from the second you wake up, which is what Lamas say, you you think about I am alive, how fortunate I am still alive, have this perfect human rebirth. Most times in the beginning even it is boring, but slowly, if you say it with sincerity and try to feel it, slowly it will come and you get a realisation of it. Then it becomes real. And then it gives you energy to then want to practice.
I mean it just comes slowly, but you have to be on the ball, alert, fresh, and you have to make that effort. There is no secret to it, I don’t think. But I think what has to come to is not, I think when we think of a religious path and we have this kind of concept of holy, we act holy sometimes, we’re being holy. That’s very artificial. In a way, like she’s talking about emotional pain, and it’s very painful to have emotional pain, but actually to be in touch with the emotional pain is much better than walking around thinking you’re all being holy.
Everything’s lovely and lovely and I want nice things, you know. That’s just fantasy land. Because when you’re really practicing, you’re in touch with your emotional pain, you’re in touch with the hurt, you feel the anger, you feel the jealousy. So it really is biting at you, you know, you have to know that. And that’s what then gives you the energy to want to go beyond it.
But just to float along thinking everything’s nice, that can be just as big a delusion. And then that becomes boring after a while too, you know, when you give up. So I mean we have to know our own minds well, really. So why don’t we visualize in front of us the embodiment of, you could say, the embodiment of all the compassionate qualities of the enlightened being, known in Tibetan as the compassionate-eyed one, Chenrezig, compassionate eyed one, as Lama Zopa calls it. And you think of this Buddha as a form, a shape, you know, but actually it’s simply the expression in a visual form of compassion which is our own potential, the unencumbered mind, the mind that is beyond I.
It’s kind of oneness with empathy with others. In other words, in a sense you can say that the compassionate mind is an I that is as big as the universe, identifies with every living being, not just a miniature little I here, which is the ego grasping one. Chenrezig has got a white body, very blissful white light, radiant white light. And he’s got four hands. The first two are his heart in the mudra of prayer holding what they call a wish fulfilling jewel, you know.
His other two hands are held aloft, his right one holding a crystal rosary and his left one a white lotus. His face is very radiant, very blissful. Long narrow eyes, enormously compassionate, full of love and kindness and empathy with others, no separation, very sweet red mouth. His eyes, in the Indian style, he’s got this sort of he’s dressed like an Indian, like a bodhisattva, the five pointed crown, long black hair, held up in a top knot. Decorations, you know, jewelry on his ears and ankles and wrists and throat.
Very beautiful. Everything’s radiant white light. He’s sitting on a white lotus. And on the lotus is a flat sun disc and a moon disc, which are like two cushions that he’s sitting on and they represent wisdom and compassion. And the white lotus, is born out of mud but untainted by it, symbolic of our enlightenment, is born out of delusion, if you wish, but untainted by it.
You think that this is a mirror image of your own potential. The reason to meditate on this compassionate being is to activate that potential within yourself, to show you how you can become. And if you have a lama or teacher, then the mind of the enlightened mind of Chenrezig is the same as the enlightened mind of teacher. Oneness with this. Now from the brow of Chenrezig, will visualize that he sends very powerful beams of white light that enter your brow.
Filling you completely, this powerful laser light. What it does is purify completely all the suffering of your body, all the sickness and pain, and all the harm you’ve done since beginningless time in countless bodies to any living being. All of this completely purified, burned up by this blissful white light filling us. Now from Chenrezig’s throat chakra he sends powerful beams of red light that enter our throats, filling us with this blissful red light. What it does is purify all the obstacles of our speech, our inability to express ourselves appropriately or clearly, all the uncontrolled speech, the gossip, the harmful speech, the lying, all the harm we have done since beginningless time to any living being with this part of us, absolutely burned up, eradicated by this powerful, blissful red light filling us.