Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. The moment a nineteen-year-old monk left his village for Lhasa — villagers lining up to offer scarves and cups of milk as he departed — gives this 94-minute oral history session its emotional core. Khensur Rinpoche describes monastic life at Darge Monastery in 1940s Kham: the seasonal rhythm between home and monastery, the rainy-season retreat, and the annual Tibetan opera festival where fifteen hundred monks gathered under one vast ceremonial tent. He recounts the 1944 departure for Sera Monastery — an unusually large class of a hundred monks going at once — his two-month horseback journey from Chamdo to Lhasa with a small trading party, and his first visits to the Jokhang and the Potala. Conducted through an interpreter, this is warm, detail-rich personal biography.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 06 RS 1988 11 17.mp3
UUID: e9ebed53-a9bb-4704-a6e3-e9197513311e
Teacher: Khensur Rinpoche
Collection: Rinpoche's Story (Khensur Rinpoche)
Date: 1988-11-17
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 94.3 minutes
Words: ~5,053
They would import at a time. From China? Mhmm. Yeah. From — and they came on yaks.
So they had, like, a corporation. They had for — they had six centers from all the monks of Dargay Gompa. Some were somewhere in China, somewhere in Lhasa, somewhere in Chengdu, and they would work together. It’s a very big business. It was, but it was all to build the monastery again.
So, yeah, the main purpose was to rebuild the monastery. So what happened in nineteen forty one? How do you remember? I think it’s forty. The fourteen.
Nineteen — nineteen forty. And the — young girl. So, yeah, they went back to — so which — he went back to his home. His father had died. Father.
When did when did he speak? True. Before he came back to Darge? Darge. He came — my.
Mhmm. Yeah. He died six months before he came back to his home. Wow. Did his father die suddenly?
I wonder what he died — can I? He was sick before he died. That’s notable. Not very long.
Yeah. It’s very sudden. Quite sudden. Yeah. Yeah.
So before that, he wasn’t sick. Then he became sick, and then a month later, he died. Was it a fever — so it wasn’t — it probably wasn’t a fever. And he wasn’t there when his father was sick. Oh, wow.
So how many people were left in his home then in Rinda after his father went? Yeah. Except for his father, the rest were still there as when he had left to go to Chamdo. Chamdo. I know.
Chamdo. This one meditator in Dharmasala, his name is Chamduka. His monastery — so he came back in the summer. He was stayed at his home. In the winter, he went to the monastery.
Oh, the same. Was there some sort of cutoff point? Like, you say summer and winter, but there is autumn and spring. Was there some — each of the seasons has three months. So and then the — so the tenth, eleventh, and twelfth months are winter — that he would stay.
The tenth — eleventh and twelfth month. And twelfth. That’s winter. Winter — and stayed at the monastery. Yeah.
And then this — so the other nine months, he stayed at his home. Oh, so whole nine months. Yeah. So before when he was learning with — is it Ganden Rinpoche?
Ganden. Ganden Rinpoche. Did he stay with him only for three months and nine months with his father? He’d stay maybe five months with him in the chair. The winter and part of the spring.
And part of the spring. Yeah. Then when it’s getting warmer towards summer and the whole autumn. So about from the third or fourth month, he would go with his father up in the mountains. The third or fourth?
Yeah. Yeah. How do the months work out for between ours and Tibetan? Can we go through them just to get an equivalence, or is that being done? In what way?
They have twelve months. But we’re starting at the same time. We’re not starting at the same time. No. I think because we’re starting in — I think he’s — I think he’s talking in terms of Western months.
Oh, I see. When he says first, second, third. Oh, is he? So he’s talking, yeah, he’s talking about the Tibetan months. Right.
So — we — so it — the first month for the Tibetan year — can I just get this straight? First month, what’s its name? So it’s usually maybe one month different between the Tibetan and the Western calendar months. So we say February for the first month or March or February. In yeah.
Generally, you could say anywhere between February and March. This is the — so it’ll just carry on down there. So Rinpoche’s talking about Tibetan months. That’s all — yeah. He’s talking about Tibetan months.
Yeah. When he says ninth, eleventh, and twelfth month, he’s talking about the Tibetan months. Yeah. So that would be, you know, roughly December, January, February. Mhmm.
Yeah. Alright. I was wondering too. I know this is sort of jumping, but about the years — sometime we’re getting the Western years, but it would be nice to have both the Western, the names of those years. You know, the years Rinpoche has given me — what are their names?
And can we translate them literally — like do they talk about water? You’d have to — you could get an astrological calendar and just look up what that year is called. I see. It wouldn’t be too difficult. Okay.
Alright. Okay. Yeah. We have a native birth element in an animal. Mhmm.
I mean, an element in an animal. Mhmm. Mhmm. Okay. So should we stop, or should we go on?
I’m happy to go on because I don’t wanna push anything. No. Whenever you want to stop. Oh, no. I don’t want to stop.
I just wanna know if he wants — you want to stop. I wanna go on. Okay. I wanna go on a little further. Okay.
So he returned home in nineteen forty. Forty. Just for interest, can you ask Rinpoche if he knows what that year is in Tibet and what year it was? You mean the year according to the Tibetan calendar? I mean, not even — or do you mean the name of that year?
I mean, the — I’m so different. I’m sorry. The the where they start — there there are countless starts. I mean, they actually — the numbering the numbering system or — oh, I see. Or do you mean that element and animal name?
Oh. I mean, you could — but tell Rinpoche that what I’d like to do eventually is get both of those two things and have it side by side with the Western — yeah. With the Western. You just tell him that’s what I’d like to do in the end. And the and the.
Oh. The. Left figure. You can — it should — okay. You shouldn’t — it won’t — it wouldn’t need to be difficult. That’s fine.
To go back and find out what those years are called. Good. And also the — that’s actually the Buddhist year. Yes. It is.
Yes. So we should — we could give it — be nice to give it the three ways, really. The name, element name, Buddhist year — yeah. And then Western. Yeah.
Okay. So you can direct me to something that I’ll — yeah. It shouldn’t be too hard. So we’re back at. Keeps coming — so in nineteen forty three, he went to Lhasa.
Those — see, until nineteen forty three, he remained in his. In the winters, he would study the scriptures at the monastery. And then the summers, he would do work in his home. And then nineteen forty three when he went to Lhasa.
Tell him that sounds like a really sensible balance to me. It’s very. So during this period, they — you know, they had the — what’s that? The summer retreat. And this would last approximately from the Tibetan eighth month — from the sixteenth day of the Tibetan eighth month for three months. And then at the end of that, they had — they would have — when the end of the summer retreat was over, you know, it would only be the monks who would stay in the monastery during this period. This is at Darge. Yeah. At Darge Monastery.
Mhmm. And then they would have a huge picnic. And they would go out. And all the monks, they’d put up tents. And all the village people, they had finished their harvesting, and they would come and put up tents.
And then they would have a opera. Maybe they haven’t. Yeah. What theme was the opera? The Lhamo. Lhamo.
Lhamo. Lhamo. In general, they were these three operas. Three.
Three operas. Of those each year. And the. Again, the main subject of these operas is the law of cause and effect. Uh-huh.
So what — yeah. So what are the names of the three of them? The business one? That’s the second. So this was about a king and a queen and his minister.
Oh. So the third one is. Sometimes it was called the. Oh. Definitely.
It’s the same one? Same one. Same opera. Is this only in Kham that they have this, or is it in all of Tibet? The operas?
Yes. The same three at the end of the summer. The — so if the only the big monasteries would put on these operas. And they would usually present these same three operas. And they also like in Lhasa, they present these same three operas.
So they still present these same three operas, like in Dharmasala and Dalhousie. Alright. So it’s all — Mhmm. Three operas. Dropping — jumping a little bit.
But in Lhasa, did the three monasteries do them — like they wouldn’t present it together. Yeah. They would — would — Norbulingka. Norbulingka. So they’d all join together at the Norbulingka.
Oh. Oh, lovely. Was it? Oh, so it was the laypeople who actually put it on. They — but the monks would gather.
They would go to it. They would attend. But it was the laypeople who put it on or something. So no. They just do it at the monastery.
In Lhasa, the laypeople would put it on. But in his district, the monks would put it on. They would actually present it. The performance. The monks perform.
The tharpa. Carrying the blood — tharpa. Mhmm. Yeah. The laypeople would — I see.
A company of laypeople would — oh, I hear you. So they must have been rehearsing in Darge Gompa during a summer retreat. Yeah. The young monks, they would practice. They would train for the opera.
They train for one or two months. You — I didn’t. He didn’t. He study. Why not?
Most of the people who trained for the opera were the older monks. The ones who had come back from two or three years having stayed in Lhasa and had come back to the monastery, they were the one — and only two or three of the younger monks who had never been to Lhasa would train for the opera. Occasionally. Yeah. You know, this picnic.
I guess you call it a picnic. They have very, very beautiful tents and rugs and lots of good food. And all the people would come. Did it just last the one day, or did it go on longer? I think you said two weeks.
The most — the opera itself was two or three days. Two or three days? Mhmm. Is it — were the tents a little bit tall like that? Good.
Yeah. It’s like that. At work? Ah. There’s a picture in the Tibet guide being — yeah.
It’s very similar. Like this design? Yeah. The same design? Yeah.
What does that represent? There’s no special design — but it’s just the Tibetan design on the side. Very beautiful design. Yeah. It’s just a beautiful design.
It doesn’t have any particular meaning. Nice to look. The tents were much bigger than this one. Bigger?
How many people? One tent — the all fifty — about fifteen hundred monks could — fifteen hundred? Could gather together. So when they had an offering ceremony, fifteen hundred monks would gather underneath one tent. So it’s called Chiknonga.
Oh. They would have tea. They would have food and tea and all fifteen hundred monks. Underneath the food too. Oh.
Oh. So the summer retreat — how — what routine did they follow during the summer retreat? So they would do retreat. The monks would do retreat during that period. Summer — oh, they call it rainy season retreat.
Oh, or summer retreat. Yeah. Anyway, it’s translated differently sometimes. So how was it different from an ordinary day in the life in their life in the monastery? Yani described the — yani did — so doing you know, during the other than rainy season or that summer retreat, most of the monks — they didn’t do retreat.
They had various work to do. But during this period, most of the monks would do some sort of retreat. So is this — would this really be following the Rains Retreat in India? Mhmm. That’s part of the.
Yeah. Part of it. So so nineteen forty four, they had a special ceremony because many of the monks were going to Lhasa. Some were going to Sera. Some were going to Drepung.
And so they all gathered together, and they put on their best clothing. And they made — presented khatags, scarves to the lamas and the abbot and the student because in his class alone, one hundred monks went to Lhasa that year. Yeah. In same class. They all joined the same class.
They all — a hundred monks left the monastery. Oh. In the same class to go to Lhasa. To go to — to what? Sera.
The. Sera. Yeah. So they — one class, it’s a hundred monks. All went to Sera together.
So they didn’t send monks to Lhasa every year then? So, monks would go to Lhasa, but this year, it was extraordinarily large — an extraordinarily large number of monks went. Sometimes there’d be, you know, fifty or sixty monks regularly going to Lhasa, but this year, there was an extraordinary number — the first big group since the rebuilding, perhaps, of the monastery.
So because — so during this period, you know, the long period — so there was a period when the monastery was destroyed. So during that period, there weren’t any — there were lots of young people saying they were going to become monks. But there was no monastery for them to stay in. No. And, so when they started gathering again.
And then all these young monks who hadn’t become monks yet — yes. They were — had been living in their homes, so they gathered together. And then a lot of them had become very old. It was a tradition that you became a monk when you went to Lhasa. Oh.
And so some were getting old, and Rinpoche — the Lama said, why haven’t you become a monk yet? Used to. And they were — they were getting — usually, they would go about when they’re seventeen or eighteen years old, but some now were — she says seventeen or seven. Seventeen or eighteen years old. Right.
Yes. They would go to Lhasa, they would become a monk at that time. But now some of them were in their twenties, twenty three, twenty four. And so they had this — this is why they had such a big number at one time going to Lhasa. So Rinpoche would have been about the right age, though, wouldn’t he?
Okay. He was about nineteen. Most of them would be eighteen or nineteen years old. And they would stay three years in the monastery? And then they become a monk at the age of twenty?
You can’t — you have to — you cannot — you become a fully ordained monk until you’re twenty. Oh. And then having become a fully ordained monk, then they would come back to their own monastery. Right. So they’d go there at eighteen or nineteen to Lhasa.
To — and stay three years? Approximately three years. And then — before their ordination. And then at the age of twenty, they would become a monk, and then they would come back. So they must stay in Lhasa three years before they could be ordained.
They look. Alright. Okay. And then the door. This is his monastery’s tradition.
They do it three years at the monastery. Three years at Sera, three years at Ganden, or four years at Drepung. Oh. And then they before they could — they would come back. Before they could become a monk.
Yeah. But this isn’t part of Vinaya. It has nothing to — but this is the tradition — yeah. That’s the tradition. So this was — you know, he got all dressed up in his father’s clothing, and he went and made offerings and presented khatags to the lamas and the abbot.
And he said this was probably in about February of nineteen forty four when he actually — yeah. Probably not February. And then he went back to his home? So they had — he went back home, and he was going the next day, and all the people in his village came and they presented him with a scarf and they had lots of food. So they lined up, and they ran cups of milk and — and offered khatags to him.
He said he had a cup of milk. And he was he was just doing — he would sprinkle a little bit. He’d flick his finger in a little — yeah. He would flick the tip of his finger into the milk and flick it. Oh, so this this is — his family too.
Yeah. Now we’re crying. We’re crying. Was he crying? A little bit.
No. He wouldn’t meet them again for three years. He wouldn’t meet them again. Some of these — yeah. This made him unhappy.
They wouldn’t meet them for three years. I wouldn’t meet. Again for three years. Was it very good fortune for the people that he was going? I mean, was it would it bring good fortune to the person?
The — so was it an honor for the village to have one of them — they all liked it. They liked it. They liked it. It’s the sambo. Sambo.
So it’s an auspicious occasion. So so then he went — so then he left his home in February, and he went to Chamdo. And he stayed in Chamdo to the tenth month of the Tibetan year — wow. Which is when Tsongkhapa’s birthday is. Wow.
He stayed there. He stayed in Chamdo with his uncle from February until the tenth month of that year. So his birthday is around about the same time as his birthday. Yeah. That’s an auspicious time for him to go.
So he went — they made offerings, and then he and his uncle went to Lhasa. A great occasion. What can you remember about it? When when it’s first coming to — so first, when they first arrived in Lhasa, they stayed with one of the Darge traders, one of Darge Gompa’s traders — uh-huh. Who did the same type of work as his uncle.
Yeah. So they left Chamdo on the birthday of Tsongkhapa. Mhmm. And they arrived in Lhasa about, I think, maybe about January twenty third. So then they went to the Jokhang?
That’s the first thing they did. And they made offerings of butter lamps. They put — there’s a special big butter lamp in front of the image in the Jokhang. And they put butter — they offered butter, and offered incense and khatag. That’s that image is —
So there used to be — three — two Jo — from India one from China and one from Nepal. Nepal. And the. So there used to be another statue in a room above.
So he doesn’t think that. Did you see that? At Ramoche. At the Jokhang? Jokhang, not Ramoche.
Ramoche. Oh, Ramoche. Ramoche is. Where is that — Ramoche — is that statue still there? I don’t know.
I don’t know. They’re rebuilding it now. I don’t know. I’ve — they think the Chinese destroyed it. I don’t know.
I thought I heard it come back, but I don’t know. So before there were two — these two — yeah. Statues there. Is he — the statue? One as well?
No. So there was a statue of Chenrezig. Chenrezig. What? Thirteen — thirteen face?
They destroyed that one, but there may be a new one there. They destroyed that one. I think there might be. I think there is one there now. Yeah.
There’s a small piece of the original one in. Super cool. Wrong — extremely important image that the thirteen headed, thirteen faced Chenrezig. Tsondru Gyatso? Yeah.
Was had something to do with — let’s see. Something — the two princesses. One brought — one came from — yeah. India. One came from Nepal.
One came from China. China? Yeah. Oh. Oh.
So he’s saying that the two princesses, one of them entered the arms on the right side, one entered the right side, one entered the left side and — it’s of the statue. Of the statue and then what’s his name? What did he say? The king’s name? Songtsen Gampo.
Songtsen Gampo entered his heart. Now what that means by entering — so it’s sort of impregnated with the three. Oh, maybe — oh, it means that the — I maybe concept penitentiary. So they are and the. Which one?
Was it? No. They’re not. So it’s somewhere. Which shoulder was the — so they entered into the statue.
I’m not sure what that means. Yeah. Shoulder was the Nepali princess? Right on the — so the Nepali princess is the right side. Right side.
Then Chinese was left. Maybe Songtsen Gampo. Songtsen Gampo who had great faith and had a lot of great faith. And he made requests to the statue, and the voice of Songtsen Gampo came from the heart of the statue. They couldn’t see it, but everyone heard the voice coming from the heart of the statue.
This is after he died or — Mhmm. After he had died. Now these days, it doesn’t — it doesn’t exist. But it used to be extremely precious. It’s a big administrative center.
That’s where the tax collector lived. You don’t have this in Tibetan language, do you? No. I know the government puts one. Yeah.
I’ll see if I can get one. I’ve got that from Melbourne. I’ll see if I can get one. This is Thursday the twenty fourth of November nineteen eighty eight and I’m about to begin the seventh session with Bob Santuptan Khensur Rinpoche at his room at Buddha House. Could you just say to Rinpoche that we got to Lhasa last week, we got to Lhasa and we got to the Jokhang.
Mhmm. And I was wondering whether Rinpoche would be happy just explaining — just talking himself without me asking too many questions, just to go through everything that happened from coming to Lhasa and in as much detail as he can because we’d be very interested in even the smallest detail. Specific questions about when he came? Oh, he wants. He wants.
Do you need to say no if you like? Well, I can. I can make up. I can ask each one. But we just remind him — he first told us he came to the Jokhang, and he offered the butter lamps — and what happened after that?
Yeah. I was just thinking, actually, before, we didn’t really get any details about the journey. It must have taken a long time and how many people went together, and was it a big group, or did he — they have to organize the party? I mean — Mhmm. Okay.
What that referred? Was it the name of that town? Oh, Mhmm. So his uncle didn’t accompany him to Lhasa. He stayed — he had work to do, so he stayed in Chamdo.
Chinese sales tradesperson. Oh. Chinese tradesman. He accompanied him from Chamdo to Lhasa. Oh.
Gama me. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. No.
That — that just means Chinese trader. Oh, does it? Yeah. You can’t think of it. You think of his name.
Oh. Min? But were there more people and how many animals and servants? One — the trader? Mhmm.
One trader? One secretary? Mhmm. One one food carrier. One person to carry food.
Yeah. Twenty mules. Oh. One or two horses and twenty mules. So Rinpoche must have known this trader from trading — Rinpoche had two horses.
Oh. So he’s riding horseback. Oh. There’s no cars. He was riding horseback. Was it two horses so he could change?
Was something — Tashi. The Tashi. One horse would carry the supplies. Oh. The — so he didn’t know this Chinese trader, but his uncle knew him.
So he was this trader — this trader was going to Lhasa, so his uncle thought it would be good to travel together. So were the robes very dangerous? The. No. Was it dangerous?
No danger. Must have been other parts of the country where they had to have big groups. So there were two routes — there were two routes from Chamdo to Lhasa. One route, you didn’t see people for quite a long periods of time. Mhmm.
And so there was a lot of danger. Oh. But the route that he traveled, each day they’d be near a village. And so there were a lot of people on the road. And so there wasn’t any danger.
Can you — what villages? Can you remember any of the places they passed through? No. We don’t have it. Never mind.
I’ve got that map, but that map, we had trouble finding Chamdo. There’s Chamdo on this map. It’s Chamdo. See, Chamdo is the capital of Kham. We can’t find Chamdo.
Chamdo. And we just couldn’t find it on this map. It’s on the confluence of two rivers — three rivers. So I thought if we found — what is that there? It may have a different name.
That’s. What is that there? No. That’s Gothen. Should be Chamdo should be west of Chamdo Nghen.
I ask you if it should be, shouldn’t it? Chamdo Nghen. So it’s ridiculous because it’s one of the main cities, and you can’t see it. Shows see. It’s at the confluence of everything.
It should be quite neat. It should be. It’s at this city council. That. That’s why I brought that map, you see, because it’s there.
But so Rinpoche, I can’t remember the towns, but never mind. Because we’ll just move on because so that’s one. Which find it on here later. There’s too many little names. Tends to come in — he might be able to find it.
Might have a different name instead. It’s got it on this map. And it’s — I mean, it’s like a state capital. Unfortunately, this map doesn’t distinguish between little villages and big capitals. All.
How many people would have lived in Chamdo? Chamdo — Chamdo — we should find Lhasa and work backwards perhaps on the main road. He said he knows his. And he said that was north of there, but he can’t find it. Oh, it’s north of here.
Yeah. I didn’t know. Oh, that’s ridiculous. Oh, we got something. So it’s somewhere.
Surely, it’s got to be somewhere just around here. That’s crazy. I can’t find this — should be, it’s clearly ridiculous. It should be, shouldn’t it? So it must be — this map was made by. This is a Chinese map. No. It’s not. No. It’s Tibetan government, Dharmasala.
I mean, the people who took care of the mules too. So there were two people who took care of the mules. There was the trader. There was the secretary, the cook, the food carrier, I guess, the cook. And so that — and Rinpoche made six.
Oh, that’s a small group, really. And so I suppose the Chinese merchant was bringing tea to sell in Lhasa. So — gave me some. So he’s carrying pottery or dishes? Dishes and tea.
Yeah. Full that jar. Yeah. Dishes. Dishes.
Where would they have come from? The. Yeah. From China. Oh, Chinese bowls — so he would have been a merchant that was in that Darge Gompa circle of sellers.
I mean, no. He would have been one that probably carried things for the monks. So he was a trading business partner with his uncle. So what did Rinpoche go to see in Lhasa after he’d been to the Jokhang? The Jokhang.
Jokhang. The Potala? Uh-huh. So then he — the first day he went and offered at all the various images at the main Jokhang — then he went the second day, went to.
We talked about this before. Yes. He went there the second day. Yes. That’s — there is one — that’s in the Potala.
It’s in the Potala. I didn’t understand that. It’s in the Potala. The special one he was telling us about was in the Potala. He went there the second day — yeah.
I didn’t quite understand that. Mhmm. But that’s where it was. It’s called. So they were there two days and then they had dancing — religious dancing.
Oh, what was the special? So this was during the winter, this time when they made offerings of tormas. Mhmm. These ritual cakes. So this happened every year?
Mhmm. It doesn’t have — what the name of the holiday. Ah, but it was a special winter. Yeah. Yeah.
It took place every year when they walk with these and they had religious dancing. Not long before the New Year. Probably, because he arrived — jumped out. And so on Tsongkhapa’s birthday, that’s late December. So January about January nineteen — about January twenty third.
Yeah. Oh, so that festival came just after that. Yeah. Yeah. He arrived in Lhasa.
Must have been about the twenty fifth. So maybe about the twelfth Tibetan month, twenty first or twenty second. January. The twelfth Tibetan month, twenty first or twenty second of the twelfth Tibetan month. Twenty first.
Of the twelfth. When did you leave Chamdo? On the tenth month — tenth of the — the what? The twenty fifth day of the tenth month of the Tibetan year. Twenty fifth day of the tenth month.
And then it took them all that time to get to Lhasa. It was almost two months with — yeah. It was