Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. Ven Thubten Dondrub explores why seeing a qualified spiritual teacher as a Buddha is essential to Tibetan Buddhist practice, and the profound consequences of this view. In this 108-minute session, the penultimate class in a series on the spiritual master, he opens with motivational preparation and refuge-taking, then moves to the central teaching: enlightened Buddhas continuously work for beings’ benefit by appearing as human teachers in the world, making guru devotion the most direct path to liberation. Dondrub examines the logic carefully—not all teachers are actual Buddhas, but training to see a qualified, Dharma-teaching guru as a Buddha generates the purest view and opens us to their blessings, manifesting as inspiration and transformed practice. He covers the practical and karmically weighty consequences of both genuine devotion and its breach, illustrates with stories of Milarepa and Kadampa masters, and addresses the tension between pure guru devotion and using one’s own wisdom to discern right action. Pitched at practitioners already engaged with serious teachers.
File metadata (for organising)
File: DB The Spiritual Teacher Week 3 2015 04 15.mp3
UUID: 5304967a-8d40-40d5-8f68-0ac7c3c1071f
Teacher: Ven Thubten Dondrub
Collection: The Spiritual Teacher (Ven Thubten Dondrub)
Date: 2015-04-15
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 107.9 minutes
Words: ~12,399
Hi, everyone. Welcome to our penultimate penultimate class on the spiritual master. That means it’s our penultimate class in the entire series. This is yeah. So to make this time as meaningful as possible, especially to make it a dharma action, meaning something which is a cause to be free of suffering and what becomes a cause to experience genuine happiness, then from our side it’s important that we have the right motivation for being here.
And the very basic correct motivation is wishing to practice the teachings for the purpose of attaining a good rebirth. The greater purpose is so that we can get out of cyclic existence but the greatest motivation we can have is the bodhicitta motivation wishing to achieve enlightenment so that we can be of perfect benefit to all sentient beings. And again, we can remind ourselves why we should benefit sentient beings and this is because they have benefited us in every conceivable way. In beginning with Samsāra, We are completely dependent on them, especially their kindness and especially the kindness of a mother and we’ve received that from every being many, many times in saṃsāra, but we’ve also received the kindness of a father from every sentient being, kindness of a friend and so on. But all these kind beings are suffering, even the human beings of this world if we check, the vast majority of them are experiencing far more obvious gross suffering than ourselves right now, but also from another perspective they’re experiencing even more subtle suffering than ourselves because they haven’t found so many people have no sense of the meaning of life, no protection from suffering, no means to understand their suffering, reduce it, to transform it or eliminate it.
So this is the case for human beings, even more so those beings in the other realms. Thinking like this as strongly as possible, we can generate at least the effort for bodhicitta, which, yeah, at least we can generate that now, thinking that no matter what, I must use this in all future lives to achieve enlightenment for the sake of kind suffering mother sentient beings. So to achieve enlightenment, the only way to achieve that quickly and completely is to rely on a qualified teacher of the Mahāyāna and especially to rely on a qualified master of sūtra and tantra in order to achieve enlightenment quickly and to devote oneself to such a person in thought and action. So for this reason I will study this practice. So as we say the prayer, if you feel comfortable to say the prayer, it’s to make it more effective, more powerful.
We visualize or try to imagine Śākyamūni Buddha in front of us as the source of all these teachings, our source of refuge, inspiration and guidance, the embodiment of the Three Jewels of refuge and at the same time we can try and think of all beings surrounding us, at least those that we’re most connected to in this life starting with our parents on either side but as much as possible trying to have an awareness of all the different kinds of beings of saṃsāra, all the different kinds of suffering. I go for refuge until I’m enlightened to the Buddha, Dharma and the Supreme Assembly. By the merits I create through listening to the Dharma, may I become a Buddha in order to benefit all sentient beings. Then thinking the Buddha is pleased with us, we imagine the Buddha coming to the crown of our head and then when above our crown, we imagine the Buddha dissolving into blissful golden light so that that light can pour down into us, blessing our mind. So then briefly doing the nine round breathing exercise just to let our mind become just that much more calm, clearer, more concentrated so that we can use that level of mind to listen to and think about the Buddhist teachings tonight.
K. Thank you. Alright. Okay. So I’ve tried to explain why we need a qualified teacher to practice the Dharma especially if we really want to seriously engage with the Dharma in order to achieve liberation and particularly to achieve enlightenment, we really do need a qualified teacher or teachers and the more qualified our teachers are in every possible way, the more we will benefit.
And especially if we have a root guru who is a master of sūtra and tantra, then this is really very beneficial, the best. So it’s important to have a teacher, it’s important to try and have a teacher or teachers who are really qualified, but also we need that strong connection with them. But then what is particularly emphasized in the Mahāyāna tradition in many sutras, well in many Mahāyāna sutras, it makes the point that actually, because the Buddhas are constantly working, acting for the benefit of all sentient beings, the most direct powerful way they can appear is as a human being teaching the Dharma. Even though they are enlightened beings who have gone beyond the need in any way to take rebirth, they appear back in the world, not due to karma, but out of compassion, and they appear to be ordinary human beings. In various sutras, the Buddha said one should understand that these greatly qualified masters who appear as human beings are in fact Buddhas.
So this is Mahāyāna teaching, it’s not something made up in the Tibetan tradition or something that I always used to think it was unique to Tantra, but it’s not. It’s something that is mentioned in a number of Mahāyāna Sutras that the Buddha says in these degenerate times I will appear as spiritual masters. If patient I’ll look up some quotes on this but right now I’ll never be able to find them. But anyway, so what is particularly emphasised in Tibetan Buddhism because Tibetan Buddhism, one of the unique features of all the four schools of Tibetan Buddhism is the emphasis on practising tantra. That the reason to practise sūtra is to qualify oneself to practise tantra and the reason to practise tantra is to achieve enlightenment quickly and the reason to achieve enlightenment quickly is to stop the suffering of sentient beings quickly.
So in that tradition what is particularly emphasised is training to see one’s, like the Buddha said, truly great spiritual it is valid to see truly great spiritual masters as Buddhas and because they could be, because that’s the way the Buddhas actually work in this world. They can do that And so what is emphasised in the Tibetan tradition is how important it is to train to see the qualified Guru, the ones that you feel closely connected to and you choose, you consciously choose as your teachers, to see them as Buddhas. Particularly, it’s not very wise, don’t think, as Alexander Berzin emphasizes, to see all one’s teachers as Buddhas. It’s important to see them, to respect them and have a good view of them and to try and have as pure a view as possible, but it’s really only those who once decided this person is really super special. People have outstanding knowledge and spiritual qualities.
On the basis of those people, those gurus, it is valid to train to see them as a Buddha. So this is what is emphasised in the Tibetan tradition of seeing one’s gurus as buddhas. So this is a in reality, it’s very easy to say, oh my guru is a buddha and I think my guru is a buddha. That’s very easy to say, but to actually do it properly, this is very, very difficult. One of the most difficult realizations.
Pabongka Rinpoche himself says this is one of the most difficult realizations to gain, to be able to actually see the guru as a Buddha, to have this deep belief, not some sort of superficial gaga, goo goo, if a guru was Buddha, but some very deep conviction that one’s Guru is a Buddha. But if one can do it or approximate to it, then this is incredibly important. So why should we see the guru? And remember here we’re talking about the qualified guru, not anyone, but a teacher teaching the Dharma in the right way, who you’ve checked up and you feel this person has many, many special qualities. It’s not just a nice person or a kind person or a friendly person or a blah blah person, but someone who is really exceptional in their knowledge and practice and qualities.
Why should we see this person as a Buddha? Why see them as a Buddha? You know, this is really quite, you know, in some ways, this is kind of bizarre, because, yeah, I wouldn’t say this in front of Lama Zopa Rinpoche because he’d chop my head off, but to be quite honest, for an ordinary person, you know, to say we should go around seeing some people as Buddhas, this seems really ridiculous and something very cultish and very, very dangerous. And it is dangerous if we’ve chosen the wrong people to see as Buddhas. But why, from the good side, why should we see the Guru as a Buddha?
Because basically this is the purest view we could possibly have and if we can have valid reasons, not phony reasons, but valid reasons for seeing the qualified guru as a Buddha, then the great benefit of that is then that cuts out all doubt that what we are being taught and what we are being advised is exactly correct. It is utterly unmistaken because it’s coming from the Buddha. This is why we take refuge in the Buddha because because we we’ve come to the conclusion that an enlightened mind is perfect. It is unmistaken, and therefore the Guru is the same as the Buddha, therefore the Guru’s teachings and especially the Guru’s advice is unmistaken. It’s exactly what I need.
So that’s the conclusion one should have and that’s the purpose of seeing the Guru as Buddha. But only if the Guru is qualified. You don’t go around seeing everyone as Buddha, that can be very dangerous. So it cuts off all negative thoughts and all doubts, so that means we have fewer and fewer obstacles practice and everything is encouraging because we have what we believe to be a perfect example in front of us who can guide us correctly, unmistakenly. And so because we have that purest view, we will take the teachings of the guru to heart, we will practise them, we will really benefit the most from the Guru’s wisdom and compassion if we see the qualified Guru as a Buddha.
What is difficult to understand and explain, because I don’t really understand it and therefore can’t explain it, is by seeing the Guru as Buddha, then this is how we receive the blessings of the Buddha. We say we receive the blessings of the Guru, but we see what we actually receive are the blessings of the Buddha. The word that is translated as blessing is in sense of the Tibetan word is Jinlab, which the best English translation is inspiration. So when one is inspired, somehow the mind is in a very special state, one is genuinely inspired. Somehow the mind is lifted up into a very positive state and when one is inspired, one does things.
If you’re inspired by something or someone, you would try to do what is inspiring you. You may not achieve it, but at least one has this energy that one doesn’t have when one isn’t inspired. One has this energy when one is inspired to do something and in this case it’s practise the dharma. And so in that state of inspiration where one has this special kind of interest and energy to practise, then it’s easier to practise. That mind, one can be inspired by very ordinary things.
People are inspired by movie stars and rock and roll singers and athletes, but that kind of inspiration is a very, very low level worldly kind of inspiration. But if one is inspired by someone who you see as Buddha, you know, that is a pretty who is teaching the Mahāyāna in in a very pure, perfect, profound way, that kind of inspiration is something quite amazing, I guess. I don’t think I’ve quite got it, maybe a long way from it, but maybe teeny bit sometimes, but yeah, that, you know, that really transforms our mind and that transformed mind, that mind can achieve all sorts of amazing things. And if you read the life story, I highly recommend, it’s really helpful to read the life stories of various great practitioners like Milarepa who had this incredible he is always given as the ultimate example of someone with perfect guru devotion, who had this utter devotion to his guru. And then, you know, so he had this close connection with his guru.
He lived with him for, I don’t know how long, I don’t think it was actually very long, but then he spent the rest of his life far, far away from his guru living in incredibly austere circumstances. But it was due to that, the blessing of his devotion to the guru that he was able to achieve enlightenment. Once you have that devotion, you don’t have to be close to the guru, physically close, as long as you’ve received the teachings, all the necessary stuff, and then the guru will send you off to practise it. And that’s what happened with Milarepa. So he had this devotion in his heart and that’s what sustained him and enabled him to achieve enlightenment and that’s how the blessings of the guru come.
So basically that’s why we need to see the guru as a Buddha because that’s the purest view, to have that pure view, that by training our mind to have that pure view, is purifying our mind. You can’t have a pure view with an impure mind. One has to purify the mind to have a pure view. And with that pure view, what tends to happen, the way the mind works, is if one is able to generate one kind of virtuous mental factor, all the other virtuous mental factors come along with it to support it, like teamwork. And if one gets caught up with the mind, If one of the negative mental factors takes over the mind, all the other negative factors tend to come along with it and support it.
So, like, for example, if we are able to practice patience, we’re also able to be persevering and and all the other good stuff. Yeah. So if one can have that pure view of the guru, you know, all positive mental factors come along with it. And so then with that mind, one can accomplish all things. That’s the blessing of the Buddha.
That’s the blessing of the Guru. And that’s what we need. That’s what we need. Especially when it comes to things like trying to understand and realise emptiness. You know there are all these stories in the teachings about receiving the blessings of the Guru.
And I’ve repeated this one before because I like it, but I can’t remember who it was. And these blessings come in all sorts of situations, but in Tibet there was one of the Kadampa masters and the Kadampa masters were the direct disciples of Lama Atisha and then that lineage of practice. So there was one of these Kadampa masters and his disciple. So at one point, this Kadampa master X and his disciple Y, I’ve forgotten their names, Kadampa master X got very, very sick, and his disciple y, who was very, very devoted to him, looked after him and one of the signs of this sickness was the the the master x had diarrhea. So every day, disciple Y would, you know, clean the guru’s body without any sense of disgust or whatever, collect all the diarrhea in a pot and carry it and, you know, empty it out.
And one day as he was carrying this pot of diarrhea in a pot as he was walking down the stairs with great devotion thinking what he was holding was something absolutely wonderful because it came from his guru, he realised emptiness. I mean, he had been studying it, of course, but due to having this incredible devotion to his guru at the time, then his mind entered into a state where it is possible that all that hard work of studying the teachings and meditating on them comes together and you get the realization. And that’s the blessing of the guru, the blessing of the Buddha. That’s what we need. And to and to have that feeling that and and, of course, yeah.
The guru is like the confirmation that the Dharma is real, is true, and it works, that we need that. And especially if we see that the guru as the Buddha, then that’s the best confirmation. Okay. So then, how why am I able? What is the way?
What yeah. Why am I there’s two questions. Why am I able to see the guru as Buddha, and how am I able to do it? So how we’re able to do it, I’ll talk about next week. Why why are we able to do this?
See the guru as the Buddha? The the way to see the guru Buddha as Buddha is basically by appreciating the qualities of the guru. So the more we appreciate on the basis of realizing or having decided that the guru has many qualities and has more good qualities than bad ones, the more we appreciate those qualities and see how not pretend that they’re special, but realise how important those qualities are, how wonderful they are, then that helps us get this pure view by focusing on those good qualities more and more, and especially combining that with the understanding, as I mentioned last week, that a real practitioner, such as a qualified guru, doesn’t openly show their qualities. They’re not interested in showing people, oh look how clever I am, how wise I am, how much I can do this and I know that. They have no interest in those things whatsoever.
So, but because they are realized beings, you you can tell that they have some quality. And so that’s, you know, like I mentioned last week, that’s like the iceberg. The fact that you can see this means that there’s much more hidden than what one can, as an ordinary person, see or know. So therefore by focusing on those qualities, one can start to see the possibility of that this person actually is a Buddha, or it’s valid, at least it’s valid to see, to train to see this person as a Buddha. Because it gets very tricky, this whole topic, because there are some gurus who are Buddhas, and and many gurus aren’t Buddhas, but it’s still valid to see them as Buddhas.
Even though they’re not, it’s valid to see them because of the qualities they have and what they’re doing. Try and talk about that more later on. Also, by having decided, checked that the guru, this teacher, has very good qualities and knowledge and practise and whatever, and not many bad qualities and the bad qualities that this person has aren’t seriously bad ones, then actually it is possible to use one’s perception of the bad qualities to enhance one’s faith because by thinking, it is not just because I see a bad quality in someone, it doesn’t mean they actually have that bad quality, because my perception is impure, it’s mistaken. There’s many things I make mistakes about all the time. What is actually impermanent, I see as permanent.
What is suffering, see as happiness. What is empty of inherent existence, I see as truly existent. I’m constantly making many mistakes about life. So just because I see someone as having a fault, it doesn’t mean they actually do have that fault. That’s one thing.
And the other thing is that in fact the faults I see in the guru are actually acted out by the guru for my benefit. That the Buddha, you know, the Buddha not the Buddha the guru takes on, you know, displays these faults for purposes of teaching disciples, which is what they do. So as Loden says, actually, by thinking in the correct way, one can realise that the faults one sees in the guru are a great kindness of the guru to appear this way. But again, you have to make sure that it’s the right guru. That’s the tricky bit.
Anyway, the most important thing when one has any teacher is to focus on the good qualities of that person, not the negative ones. Because by focusing on the negative qualities, this will undermine whatever benefit one is receiving from that teacher. Whereas by focusing on the good qualities, that will enhance whatever benefit one is receiving and one will be able to build on it. Questions? Going back to what you said before about person is not a Buddha Mhmm.
But they are a guru Mhmm. Sort of contradiction in terms to what we’re saying before, wasn’t it? A little bit. Well, when we get on to next week’s topic about how the arguments for seeing the guru as Buddha, the way Lama Zopa Rinpoche presents these arguments prove that a guru is a Buddha. I don’t think they actually do prove that the guru is a Buddha, which is probably going to get me into a lot of trouble, but at least I can say that those arguments act as a basis for saying that it’s valid and useful to see certain people as Buddhas even though they’re not.
Right? Because oh, wow. So if if the teacher there are yeah. I don’t know how many teachers are actual Buddhas, but look. Put it this way.
One of the great Kagyu masters of of recent times who unfortunately passed away some years ago was Kalu Rinpoche. He was a very controversial lama. He was a very great, like, tantric master, very considered to be very highly realized being, and he was famous for sort of speaking very straight, not messing around about anything, and he made this comment in a book, in a text, that actually most of the incarnated lamas, the tulkus, are, you know, not much, well, shouldn’t say what he said about them, it wasn’t very inspiring. He said they reincarnate not for very spiritual reasons at all. So if he can say that, it tends to imply that many, you know, lamas are not as as realized as many people project onto them, but one can never tell.
But the point oh, this is getting I’m making a mess here. Because I do believe this point myself, is that if you have someone who is teaching the Dharma and they’re teaching the Dharma correctly, and from their side, they’re teaching it with a good motivation. Right? They are teaching the Dharma according to the tradition and they’re teaching it more or less correctly. The more correctly, the better.
And they’re teaching it with basically good motivation and the better their motivation is, the better. Even if this person is quite ordinary being, if from your side, if from our side we see that person as a Buddha, that view protects our mind. Actually I’ll say this bit now, I was going to talk about it later, but Lama Zopa Rinpoche, I never heard Rinpoche say this, unfortunately. I just read it in a teaching Rinpoche gave. But I find this really fantastic and very helpful.
Rinpoche says, To really understand the teachings on guru devotion, which is about seeing the guru as Buddha, these teachings only make sense otherwise they’re completely ridiculous. They only make sense in the context of one thing, and that one thing is having faith in the existence of the Buddhas and what Buddhas do. If you don’t believe in the existence of Buddhas and that the Buddhas are acting for the benefit of sentient beings all the time, then guru devotion, seeing the guru as Buddha, makes absolutely no sense. But if you do have that faith, then guru devotion makes every sense because, roughly what Rinpoche said was this, very roughly because Rinpoche says it much more beautifully and precisely and wonderfully than anything I could ever say, but Rinpoche’s basic argument was something along the lines of we can always find, you know, ordinary people or ordinary people who have better qualities than us, who are more kind, more compassionate, more loving, more generous, more this than that. And this is not because they are inherently like that.
This is because they have practiced these qualities either in this life or in past lives, and so as a result, they have more of that. They are more kind, etcetera, than myself in this life. But these are just very, very ordinary people. But then on top of that, there are people, dharma practitioners, who are consciously cultivating these qualities. And so they have much more love, compassion, patience, wisdom, etcetera, That right?
Than oneself. And then well, let’s go back a bit. Even among ordinary people who who don’t even necessarily have any religious beliefs, there are people who are really dedicated their life to helping other people, and they try and help them as much as they can. But they’re just ordinary people and they’re not, you know, spiritual don’t don’t necessarily have any religious beliefs, blah blah blah. But there are people who have, you know, like a Buddhist who are training their mind in Buddhist methods and have been doing it for all of this life or many lives.
So it is the nature that their compassion increases increases their wisdom, loving kindness, generosity, blah blah blah. Yeah? And they’re they’re wholeheartedly dedicating their lives to others, but they’re not Buddhas. Yeah? But then there are people who, you know, become bodhisattvas, become Ārya Bodhisattvas, who are, you know, who, you know, a hundred percent dedicated to others.
Right? You know? Who who give up their life to benefit others genuinely, not out of some neurotic way, but completely are willing to sacrifice their life for others and have done so life after life. So the point is, if that’s the case, if that is the case, how can one think that when someone achieves enlightenment, when they are totally free of all ego, totally free of all limitations and obscurations, all their positive qualities have been fully awakened, how can one think that such a being isn’t perfectly acting for the benefit of all sentient beings all the time? They are, because there’s nothing stopping them.
Right? Well, couldn’t they be a Buddha then? What? Couldn’t they be a Buddha then? No.
They are Buddha. No. That’s what I’m saying. The people who are Buddhas, they are doing that. That’s all Buddhas do.
What so So if one has that belief and faith that the enlightened mind, the dharmakaya, is constantly acting for the benefit of all sentient beings, then how does the Buddha do that? How does the enlightened mind do that? The enlightened mind does it in many, many ways. But as I’ve mentioned before, in the lower realms, the Buddhas cannot do much to benefit sentient beings because beings in the lower realms are incredibly obscured by suffering. But the Buddhas do stuff.
They do appear there, but there’s not much that they can do because of the obscurations of sentient beings. In the god realms, Buddhas can’t do much, again, because of the the the being beings in those realms are too distracted by pleasure and bliss. So it’s really so the Buddha’s are Buddha mind is there acting for those beings, but it’s very limited what they can do. So it’s really in the human realm that Buddhas can can directly benefit sentient beings. And even among most human beings, the Buddhas cannot do much because most human beings are again obscured in so many ways.
If you, you know, remember meditation on the precious human rebirth. Yeah? So so it’s really Buddhas are helping all these beings in limited ways, in small ways, depending on the karma of those people and their level of obscuration. Who the Buddhas can most directly benefit are people with the precious human rebirth. That is someone who has developed faith in the Buddha, knows of the existence of Buddhas, believes in them, has has refuge of some degree in in the triple gem.
And how does how does the Buddha’s how do the Buddha’s then benefit such people? The most powerful way the Buddha can benefit any sentient being is teaching the Dharma. Because the only way any sentient being can be free of suffering is to change their mind. There’s no other way. You know, you don’t can’t take a pill or jump in some water or go to a particular place and be free of suffering.
You know, even if we were in as Buddhists, we’re encouraged to go to places like Bodh Gaya, which is where the Buddha enlightened got enlightened. But just going to Bodh Gaya is not gonna free us from suffering. The point of going there is to be inspired to practise the Dharma. That will free the mind. But just going to Bodh Gaya is not gonna do anything, you’re just gonna catch a cold probably.
Because Hollins always says he sacrifices his nose every time he goes to Bodh Gaya because Holiness always gets really sick when he goes there. Anyway, yeah. Right? So Buddhists can do all sorts of amazing things, but actually the most amazing thing, the most direct way the Buddha can change our mind is to teach the Dharma. Right?
But, you know, the Buddha can’t teach the Dharma to dogs or polar bears or centipedes or beings in the hell realm or in the god realms or to even to most human beings because they’re not interested. They don’t give a damn. They’re watching television or jumping up and down in raves or whatever they’re called, mosh pits and stuff, or screaming at football matches or killing each other, blowing each other up. But there are a few people who are interested in the Dharma, and the and so the Buddha can teach them. Yeah?
And that’s what he does. Which, by the way, doesn’t mean I’m a Buddha. Please, I’m not saying that. I’m just blah blah blah blah. But we’re talking particularly about people who can really teach the Dharma, and not just in the words, but from a state of complete realization.
Yeah? So those beings, yeah. Right? The Buddha’s as in the teachings it says, the Buddha was to appear as a dog, no one’s gonna take interest in a dog, That’s just too low. Or if the Buddha was to appear as a drunk, no one’s gonna have developed devotion to some drunk lurching around saying everything is empty.
You’re not gonna listen and pay attention. Right? The Buddha has to appear in a way that you can relate to and if the Buddha appears too special, one’s going to freak out, you know? We all like to think, Oh, I wish that the gurus or his holiness would have performed a few miracles, know, whip out all those thousand arms or something like that, and prove he’s Mañjuśrī. But if he did, we’d all freak and run away a mile.
If you really think about it actually, if you were you know, I’ve had the good fortune to be physically very close to his wholeness and for him to be talking to me personally, And it’s very nice, but it’s also quite scary. It’s quite, you know, because this is not little Freddy or nice Freddy. This is some very, very, very, very special super powerful person who can read your mind, you know, like a book. You know, it’s so but he appears as this nice person, fortunately. But, you know, His Holiness has got this incredible power.
And sometimes I’ve been in teachings where His Holiness has shown His displeasure with people, and that’s pretty scary. Yeah. Let me get a bit from him that he just likes to be all over the monk. Yeah. He does.
Yeah. But he’s not he’s not an ordinary monk by a million. Yeah. But that’s the yeah. That’s his great quality.
Yeah. But when you’re in your presence, you know this is not some simple monk. His Holiness is not a simple monk. I mean, he’s simple. He’s a monk, but his simplicity is he has this amazing mind.
Just even from an ordinary point of view, his understanding of the Dharma and his ability to teach it is just mind boggling. Anyway, so what am I trying to talk about? What am I trying to say? I got lost. Yeah.
So so, yeah, the the the Buddhas can’t so they have to appear as a human being. So they can’t appear as as too too holy and, know, super special or too degenerate because we just can’t relate on either hand. So out of great kindness, the guru, the Buddha appears as a human being that we can relate to. And the Buddhas appear as many human teachers with different sorts of personalities to fit the minds of different human beings. But one thing, know, His Holiness makes the point that to appear as a human being, what is the feature of a human being?
What the general characteristic of all human beings? It is that they have thoughts. So the guru, the Buddha, to appear as a convincing human being has to appear with thoughts. You know, I’ve read these ridiculous articles about his whole and said, why does he wear glasses if he’s a Buddha? Or I I can remember.
When he when his whole I think it was the first time his holiness came to Australia. I was in Sera Monastery, and my brother sent some newspaper clippings. And some lady reporter said, if if the guru if his holiness in Dalai Lama is a Buddha, why has he got hairs on his legs? Gosh. Buddha.
Sorry. Yes, is rather dumb. Yes, also, yeah. But that’s the thing, people look at all these little things and miss the whole point. Miss the entire, you know, what’s actually really significant.
So my point is, so the Buddha is working for all sentient beings, and the most powerful way the Buddha can directly work for sentient beings is for the Buddha mind to actually manifest in what appears to be a human form teaching the Dharma. So that’s what the Buddha does. But also it follows that there are other people teaching the Dharma who range from tenth, ninth, you know, Aria bodhisattvas, people who are not ārya beings but are bodhisattvas. Then there are teachers who aren’t bodhisattvas, you know, all the way down. But if someone has devotion to them and sees them as the Buddha, then the Buddha mind can work through that person.
Oh, here’s a disciple. Here’s someone who seriously wants to practise the Dharma. They haven’t met a really highly qualified teacher, but they’ve met this one. So this one’s at least teaching the Dharma a bit. So if, you know, as a dependent arising, if the person sees that person as a Buddha, then the Buddha actually can work through that, I think.
Therefore it’s valid to see someone with some quality as a Buddha, as long as they’re teaching the Dharma properly with a proper motivation. Right? Anyway, check out. Think about I haven’t got onto my topic yet. That was the introduction.
Well, that’s all very important. I’ll repeat some of that next week anyway. So then, the topic is the advantages and disadvantages of relying on a qualified spiritual master. Okay? So the advantages are that if one relies on a qualified teacher and particularly trains to have a pure view of that teacher, and especially trying to see that person as a Buddha, the benefits are that this will bring us closer to enlightenment because we will practise the Dharma and we will listen to the teachings, we will take, you know, we will really listen, you know, not just with our ears, but, you know, we will engage with what is being said properly.
By seeing the guru as Buddha, this is pleasing to all the Buddhas, and so this is how one receives the blessings of the Buddhas. And another benefit, one of the most important ones, is that the more we correctly devote ourselves to a qualified teacher, seeing that person as a Buddha and acting appropriately, then we are creating the cause to always be guided by correct spiritual masters in the future. If our teacher is not a Buddha, but we but is teaching the Dharma properly, etcetera, etcetera, and we have that good view of the guru, we are creating the cause to meet truly, truly greatly qualified, realized beings in the future or even in this life. It so, you know, So by meeting gurus life after life, then we can continue to practice, you know, follow the path. So this is an incredible benefit.
And we’re creating the cause to meet more and more qualified teachers and also we’re creating the cause to have a purer view of, you know, our teacher may be a Buddha or some highly realized being, but we don’t have a particularly good view of them. But by training, you know, working on, practising, trying to develop our pure view, then as our mind becomes purified, our experience of the teacher becomes more pure. Now, I mean, as I said, when I when I first met my my teacher, Lama Zopa Rinpoche, in the first three days, I had a very, very impure view of him, and he appeared to be, you know, extremely ordinary and, in fact, you know, and less than ordinary kind of person. But I I really for once in my life, I really worked on changing my state of mind and recognising that I I this the way I was behaving, my mind was behaving, was really negative and harmful to myself, and I really had to cut it and stop it and just try to shut that mind up and just be a nice person and have a good you know, just have an unjudgmental view.
And I did that and my whole perception changed. My whole experience changed as a result. So that’s just a very gross example, but by training the mind more and more, our view of the guru can become purer and purer, and the benefit that we receive becomes more and more powerful as a result. So also this protects us from falling into the lower realms because if we see the Guru as Buddha, we will practise, we will practise correctly, more and more correctly, more and more strongly, more and more continuously, and the basic practise is avoiding negative actions and subduing the mind. This is what the Guru, the qualified Guru is encouraging us to do, inspiring us to do, being an example themselves of a purified mind.
So this will help us not to fall into the lower realms. And more specifically, at the time of death, if we are able to recall the guru at the time of death, having that devotional thought towards the guru at the time of death, it is said in the teachings that there is absolutely no way one can have a bad rebirth if one is thinking of the guru at the time of death, because that’s the same as thinking of the Buddha. Also, by having correct devotion to a qualified teacher. This protects us from misleading teachers and bad friends of every kind because we have this amazing, wonderful example in front of us, before us. And so, you know, all other teachers, one can say, oh, compared to my teacher, this person is just, you know, rubbish.
So, you know, this person is teaching rubbish, teaching it in a rubbish way, themselves behaving in a not very inspiring way. But if we don’t have that example, we could be easily influenced by all sorts of phony people. And if we have the example of, you know, a great teacher, then we won’t be influenced by, you know, ordinary people who say, oh, what you’re doing is rubbish, you know, practicing Dharma, trying to do this is all nonsense because you’ve you’ve got this example of this is this is what happens if you practice. You get you know, I I you know, you yeah. I’ll become like the guru.
Because some people make the mistake, unfortunately. When when Lama Yeshe was on this earth not so many years ago, I mean, he was, I mean, really the most wonderful, inspiring person. Just really, really incredible. I think sorry. This is maybe just my arrogant views, but anyway, it’s my view.
I think some people who were his students made the big mistake of thinking that Lama Yeshe was somehow a truly existing being, that he was like that oh, what am I trying to say? Anyway, what I’m trying to say is Lama Yeshe was like that because he practiced the Dharma, but I think some people saw him that that was just him. He he was like that not because he practiced the Dharma, that that was him. He was this super special, loving, kind, funny, spectacular, unique person, but he wasn’t. He was a product of practicing the Dharma.
And that was his message. You know, if you practice the Dharma, you become somebody amazing and inspiring. Okay. We’ll take a break. We’ll come back and talk a little bit more, and maybe maybe discussion time.
So it’s said that another advantage of having strong devotion to the Guru as Buddha is that it helps us to be able to withstand all the afflictions, all our delusions and all our negative impulses and habits. And this is because the more we are devoted to the Guru, the more we’re inspired by the Guru, the more we will want to practice what the Guru teaches us. We will want to please the Guru and the way to please the Guru is to practice and practice involves overcoming our delusions, not following them, not following our negative impulses and so on. So we should have some natural wish to do that, but what enhances that is our devotion to the Guru, wanting to follow what the Guru is teaching, what the Guru is advising. So the more devotion we have, the more genuine devotion we have, then that means the more we will practise and we will protect ourselves from all these negative impulses.
So then another great advantage is that our devotion to the guru, seeing the guru as Buddha, enhances our accumulation of merit. Our devotion to the Guru will inspire us to practise merit more and more, to engage in virtuous actions more and more, but also just practicing in relation to the guru, creates the greatest merit anyway because the amount of good or bad karma we create or the strength of the good or bad karma we create depends on four factors. Remember, for those people who studied the DB module on karma. So one of the factors involved in determining intensity of the karmic imprints we make is the object to which our action is directed. So guru is the most karmically potent object of all.
So anything we do in relation to the guru, good or bad, creates the most powerful karma. Any negative actions towards the guru is the worst we can possibly engage in, and any virtuous action done in relation to the guru is the most powerful. So in the teachings it says, even if you offer just one glass of Guru, one glass of water to the Guru, seeing the Guru as Buddha, but not offering it to the guru as an ordinary person, but seeing the guru as Buddha, skies of merit, skies of merit, inconceivable amount of merit, giving one glass of water to the guru as Buddha. So this is why we have these practices which we do here every fortnight, the Lama Chopa practice, the guru offering to the guru where one visualizes the guru and you make you set out all sorts of actual offerings, but also one visualizes all sorts of offerings. So one tries to do this, so you have the perfect object, which is the Guru Buddha, then you try and do it with the bodhicitta motivation and you offer all these different things actually set out and visualised.
So one makes enormous merit this way. Yeah? That’s why we also do medicine Buddha Puja. I would encourage people to come to these things. I don’t ever see many discovering Buddhism students coming to our Pujas.
To discover more Buddhism this way. So remember, in order to achieve enlightenment, we have to accumulate we have to complete the two accumulations of merit and wisdom. So both are achieved rapidly, quickly, most rapidly, most quickly, that’s the same thing, most easily, most effectively by relying on the Guru. By making offerings to the Guru, one accumulates a merit by practising the teachings, one accumulates merit. By pleasing the guru, one accumulates merit.
So incredible benefits. And then final advantage is like a summary of everything, that by relying on the guru, Buddha in the correct way, then one will be able to realise all one’s temporal and ultimate aim. So the temporal aims are developing one’s Dharma practice in this life, one’s good qualities in this life, and then one’s ultimate aims are of course achieving liberation and enlightenment. So really one can only achieve liberation and enlightenment by relying on a qualified teacher. So those are the advantages of properly relying on a qualified teacher and then the disadvantages are basically the opposite.
By not relying on a guru, then one doesn’t get closer to enlightenment. It’s very difficult to achieve enlightenment if one doesn’t rely on a guru. One could in fact say it’s impossible. One doesn’t please the Buddhas and by not pleasing the Buddhas, then it’s difficult to receive the blessings of the Buddhas. By not relying on a spiritual master, one is not creating the cause to meet spiritual masters in the future.
So there’s enormous obstacles to being able to follow the spiritual path. By not relying on a qualified teacher, then it’s very easy to fall into the lower realms to create the causes even unknowingly that lead to the lower realms. By not relying on a qualified teacher, it’s very easy to be misled by false teachers, false friends, because one doesn’t have that good example, that perfect example. By not relying on the spiritual master, it’s much, much more difficult to overcome one’s delusions, to even recognise one’s delusions and to give up one’s negative tendencies. It’s much more difficult by not relying on the guru, it’s so much more difficult to accumulate merit and tend to be mindful of the bodhisattva ideal because the guru is the perfect, the guru embodies the bodhisattva ideal.
And by not relying on the guru, it’s very difficult to realise even one’s temporary goals, let alone ultimate ones. So comparing the advantages with the disadvantages, one should decide to relate to a spiritual master, to pray to meet the perfectly qualified spiritual master, and to never be separated from such a person in all one’s lives. So what is really very horrible is that having met a qualified spiritual master that you connect with and then consciously decide this person is my guru or one of my gurus, then if you break that devotion, this is the worst kind of negative karma that one can possibly create. This is the heaviest negative karma that has the worst possible results. So in the teachings it says that if one breaches so that means if you develop really negative views towards the guru, you criticize the guru, you insult the guru, you actually even harm the guru in some way, you denigrate the guru, you make fun of the guru in relation to other people, anything like that.
Also just not following, deliberately not following the guru’s advice. You know, you ask the guru for advice and then you think, Oh, that’s rubbish. I’m not gonna do that. So that kind of thing. These are all examples of breaking one’s guru devotion.
So if one does that, then it is said that this brings the same result as showing contempt to all the Buddhas. Anger to the guru destroys one’s positive potentials established over eons. And even if one practices tantra, one won’t gain any results as a result of that once one’s broken one’s guru devotion. This is why in following a guru, one should make sure that the guru you’re following hasn’t broken their devotion with their guru. Because if they’ve broken their devotion with their guru, then by following someone who’s broken their guru devotion, ourselves won’t get any benefit.
So so that you could and and you’ve broken the impression with you, and then you can’t, is that still possible to be pure power? Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Sure.
Four opponent powers, Vajrasattva, and especially there is the practice of Samayavajra, Damtsig Dorje, which is a similar practice to Vajrasattva, which is specifically for purifying broken commitments with the guru. But it is advised to do it as quickly as possible, confess. Actually, one thing is to actually say to, if your guru is alive, to actually say to them to apologise, to the guru if possible. It said that if you break your devotion to the guru, will never in that life, you will not be able to gain any extra new understanding of the dharma and whatever actual understanding of the dharma you have already, you will lose as a result of that. In this life, one will be tormented by illnesses.
At death, one will fall to the lower realms and possibly what’s even worse, by breaking one’s devotion to the guru, one creates the cause not to meet spiritual masters in future lives or you meet false ones and therefore it becomes very, very difficult to follow the path to get anywhere. So of course this all depends on how strong one’s connection with the guru is in the first place and how badly one breaks that devotion and so on. But in the worst cases, this is the kind of result one can have including in this life. One can go crazy as a result, go completely bananas as a result of breaking one’s devotion to the guru. So this is why it’s incredibly important that in recognising that it is very important to make a connection with qualified teachers, one should make sure, one should check that the teachers you connect with are really especially the ones you decide, this is my teacher, this is someone I can completely trust, and I will see this person as a Buddha.
You have to be really sure that this person is someone that you can trust and is what they appear to be. Because it does say in the teachings that even if the guru, you know, you’ve accepted someone as a guru and therefore you’re seeing them and trying to think of them as a Buddha, once you do that, you can never stop that. You have to continue it even if it turns out the guru is really quite, is not what they appear at all and is even doing negative things, quite seriously negative things. You still have to mentally see that person as a Buddha. You don’t have to follow them anymore, especially if they’re doing really bad things and teaching bad things, but you have to keep a pure view of that person.
Impossible myself, to be honest. But that’s what the teachers say. And and unfortunately, there are examples of that happening in recent times of people finding that, yeah, that their teacher wasn’t what they thought they were. So that’s very, very, very difficult. Of course it depends on what they have done, in some cases maybe not so difficult, but if they’ve done really gruesome things.
Think one thing someone once said something along the lines of as a way to try and maintain that view is to remember that everybody, even the most terrible people, have put in nature. So when the person, the guru who turned out to be not so good, when one had that pure view of them, when they were acting well, they were acting that was definitely a reflection of their Buddha nature, So that was valid and what they did was beneficial. So it’s important to hold that view of that. And that other side, that’s the deluded side, but that other part was a reflection of their true nature. So somehow you have to think along those kinds of lines.
But I think in past classes I’ve mentioned some examples of you know, the tantric teachings, there are many kind of unbelievable stories of gurus and disciples and really amazing things that the guru asked the Buddha, that their disciples to do. And of course, know, Marpa, who was the guru of Milarepa, asked Milarepa to do all sorts of really, really difficult things to do. And Milarepa did them happily without any any doubt that what his guru was asking was done out of pure wisdom and compassion and was only beneficial for him. He had not the slightest doubt. But at one point, I think when Marpa sent Milarepa off to live by himself up in Himalayas and everything, Marpa said to him, In future times, you and your disciples should never treat your disciples like I treated you because future disciples will never be as good.
With the degenerate times, people will have less and less faith, less and less devotion. So you can’t treat the disciple as harshly as I’ve treated you. I could do that because you were such an amazing, pure disciple. So when the guru asks us to do things which are contrary to the Dharma, then we don’t have to do them. I mean, in the path these great tantric masters asked their disciples to do things which appeared to be contrary to the Dharma, but the disciple knew because they were realized beings to some extent that there was a pure reason for that.
But in our case, since we don’t have realizations and have direct perception that our guru is a Buddha or highly realised, then it is not wise to do things that the guru asks, which we know from our Dharma understanding are contrary to the Dharma. That’s why it’s important to understand the Dharma in order to for a start. Even if our guru asks us to do something which is perfectly Dharma action to do, but we find it very difficult to do that, then the teachings say it is okay to request the Guru permission not to do it, explaining, I just can’t do this, this is too difficult. Rather than getting angry with the Guru for asking this or just ignoring and not doing it or doing something else, then one should explain to the Guru, Sorry, I can’t do this. So that’s okay.
But one shouldn’t do things that are contrary to the dharma, even if the guru asks that for it to be done. Yeah. Because the guru is, you know, yeah. If we were at a very high level and could understand why the guru, know, But, you know, the guru shouldn’t a proper guru wouldn’t ask us to do something wrong if, you know, if if we’re just at an ordinary level. If we’re at an advanced level, it would be different.
Usually, have much clearer perception of Because you know you can’t. Well, you can try to do it but then you find out you can’t, you simply can’t do it, then you say, Sorry, Guru, can’t do this. Please, sorry. But this goes back to this very complicated thing that we try to see the guru as Buddha, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that the guru is a Buddha. So the guru can advise us to do something, but it may not be what we can do, what we’re ready for.
So one has to use one’s own wisdom. This is the point in this relationship, in every way, whether one can do this, how well one can do it, if one’s ready to do it. Is it a Dharma thing to do or not? Because at our level now, the reason well, I think I left this out, it was most important. Well, it’s implied.
The reason to see the guru as Buddha is to cut that negative mind that is finding faults and finding excuses not to practise and so on. But sometimes, yeah. So of course, if we follow the logic completely, if we’re training to see the guru as Buddha, whatever the guru says, we should just do instantly. But the teachings themselves say, you know, that is not wise. One has to check one’s own wisdom and so on.
Use one’s own wisdom to some extent. One has to trust the guru, but also one has to combine that with using one’s own wisdom and understanding of the Dharma. And it’s a tricky, but this is what we have to do. I mean, because also, probably most of you have heard that there’s this story of the Buddha himself when he was before he was a Buddha and he was a Brahmin and he had a guru, and the guru told him that Brahmans, because they’re special people, they can steal. If they’re if they’re they’re if they’re hungry or whatever, they need something because they’re Brahmins, they can steal.
So he sent all his disciples off to steal various things for him, but the being who became Śākyamūni Buddha said, Sorry, guru, can’t do this. Stealing is wrong. And the Brahmin, the guru said, You’re right. I just said that just to check whether the disciples were smart or not, but they they just blindly followed my advice. Yes.
Yes. It was very tricky. As I was trying to say last week, the purpose, what can happen, especially this is what happens in cults, is that the disciples become slaves to the guru who just blindly follow whatever the so called guru says and does. But a real teacher I was trying to think of the right word. I used the wrong word last time.
Said a real teacher is trying to help the student become independent. That’s not the right word, because no one’s independent. We all depend on many things. What the real guru is trying to encourage the student to be is a self reliant being, a self reliant person. In other words, is to develop their own potential for wisdom.
This is what Lama Lama Yeshe did. He was always saying, check up. Check this was his motto, his mantra. You know? He would say something, quote from the dharma, and then say, check up.
You check up. And to you, you know, always kept saying about use your own wisdom, check your own wisdom. I mean, again, this is a tricky thing because one can be arrogant about that and think, Oh, whatever I think is right, but that’s not using your wisdom because much of what we think may be completely wrong. Much of what we’ve been thinking since beginningless time has been completely wrong, contrary to the dharma. But once we have the dharma and we start purifying our mind and accumulate merit and we learn to be more honest with ourselves, then we can start checking up.
Our checking up, using our inner wisdom can have some validity. And that’s what the real guru is trying to encourage us to do, not become some, you know, oh, guru, tell me what to do, what to think, what should I eat today? You know? But to really become a self reliant, courageous, smart person. Not smart, that’s not an intelligent person, wise person.
I I don’t know if I’ve got any more to say and there’s not enough time for a discussion group, so you have to ask me questions. More questions. Yes. Yes. Go on.
What to do if things go wrong? When things go wrong? Oh, what to do I did not haven’t I explained that? What to do when things go wrong? So it’s okay to still need to have mental respect for Yes.
Well, if things go wrong, if you we’re not. Yeah. When things go wrong in the sense that you no longer feel that you can follow this this teacher, that what they’re teaching or how they’re teaching isn’t comfortable anymore or you feel it’s actually wrong, that the behavior of the guru is wrong or what they’re teaching is not correct in some way? Or is having a sorry? It’s actually something major.
I mean, surely they’re not a teacher and I’m trying to learn to them, I’m not gonna know if they’re wrong about teaching. Well, let’s just go to the major thing first. If it’s major like that, then it is okay to stop, how can you say, being guided by that person. You stop receiving teachings from them. You stop asking advice from them.
You sort of yeah, you stop that connection with them in one sense, but mentally, you still, as I said, need to see that person as your guru even though you don’t follow them anymore. So if things go seriously wrong like that, that’s basically what they advise. If things are going wrong in a lesser way, I think the main thing is you need to talk to the teacher, to the guru, and and explain. Because if the guru is a real guru, they’ll help. And you were talking about in relation to your relation with that person.
Mhmm. Yeah. And if if if you go and talk to them and they start screaming and yelling at them, you can realize you were right. And you can just, you know, say thank you very much and bye bye. But, you know, it all goes back to really trying to not rush into taking people as one’s teachers or gurus too quickly, too easily.
Because it’s best to be able to maintain that good relationship all the time. Is the reason why breaking guru devotion is one of the worst karmic thing you can do, is that because essentially by breaking devotion to the guru, you’re breaking devotion to the Buddha? Yes. Yes. Yes.
Same thing. Yeah. Because the guru could be a buddha. You know, this is the thing. You know, never really knows.
Only a buddha can tell if another person is a buddha. Well, probably, know. Would a Buddha or would be a Buddha? Yes. But also phonies tell you that.
That’s the trouble. Usually Buddhists do not go around saying they’re Buddhas. Phonies do. I’ve met a Buddha, shook shook hands with them. Not not a real someone who thought they were Buddha.
How did you know he wasn’t Buddha? Maybe he really really was. No, I think he yeah. It was this young man who came to Chenrezig I’ve told you this story many times. He came to Chenrezig Institute many, many years ago when I was there.
And he walked up to me and shook my hands and said, Feel the power. I’m a Buddha. And he knew he was a Buddha because he’d been sitting in meditation and everything had gone black. He’d fallen into this big black experience. And when he came out, he knew he was a Buddha.
And I think his proof was that ever since then, was able to get girlfriends much more easily. So he’d come to Chenrezig Institute to meet the there was we had a Geshe, Geshe Loden, who was a very powerful, amazing lama. So he wanted to meet the Geshe to check his compare notes. Know? He wasn’t joking, wasn’t he?
No. He wasn’t joking. He was serious. He was just deluded. He was just a confused young guy who thought who thought that he’d had some great mystical experience.
But then there are other people who How did you keep it straight? What what can you do? What can you do? That would have been disrespectful. Yeah, very quick.
As soon as he met Geshe Loden, he knew that he’d made a mistake. Oh, dear. Please tell me you saw that. No, I didn’t see that. Just imagine the look.
Did he apologize? No, no. Because I mean, was done in complete innocence. Wasn’t, you know, he was just because also, he hadn’t really had no idea what being a Buddha meant anyway. I don’t know what you want.
But unfortunately there are some more serious people who have some qualities who really think that they’re Buddhas or and go around. Yeah. That’s a worry. That’s a real worry. And they have lots of disciples, web pages, the whole shebang.
Yes. I think we’re gonna have to finish early. I’ve run out of things to say this is a miracle. We are seeing blue jeans. Sorry?
We’ve had so much wasted that. That’s not that early. No. It’s not that early. Come on.
Some questions? What do you think about this subject? What do you think? Do you think this is very weird? It’s very No.
It’s very interesting. It’s very interesting. Yeah. Very interesting. But do you think it’s I think it’s really useful.
I think it’s true. I actually yeah. I think it’s really useful to be able to actually have understand that that it’s a different relationship. Look. Yeah.
Especially in our society where there’s this whole idea that no one is better than anyone else. And in one sense that’s true. We all have Buddha nature. We’re all equal in that way. We’re all equal in wanting happiness and not wanting suffering, but I think a lot of people have no idea.
And this is, this is my situation when I met Lama Zopa. I had no idea. You know, I had the idea that there are people who are smarter. You know, there are people who are more intelligent than oneself, have more knowledge about this and that, but I had no concept that there were people in this were in this spiritual state, because I had no idea about spiritual states anyway, that they were in some other kind of, I know what, dimension or state. And then you meet this person who, Lama Zopa Rinpoche when I met him was, well, he’s basically my age, so it’s very difficult to have you know, a high opinion of someone your own age.
And he’s very tiny, was very thin and he had all these still has some unusual mannerisms and he appears from an ordinary view to be quite nervous because he kind of moves a lot and his English, know, he repeats himself and coughs a lot and all sorts of strange things and he he taught most of his time with his eyes closed, you know, never looked at anyone, very serious, rocking back and forwards, you know. What’s this, you know? It wasn’t my idea. I’ve never met a Buddhist monk in my entire life. I had never thought about it, but I I had an instant concept of what they should be like, especially a Tibetan lama had to be something amazing.
And but then after a couple of days, you know, something you you start to realize that this person is just is you know, they’re just not an ordinary person, and they’re not crazy. They’re a long way from being crazy, you know, because crazy people are not ordinary either, but this is not ordinary, unordinary in that way. This is someone who is really alive and awake and really on totally on the ball in a way that I’ve I’ve never met anyone. So what? So what was my point about that?
I’ve told you before, it’s very mundane reasons. I think I had three reasons. One was I’d paid a lot of money for this and I would lose it all and I didn’t have any money, so then I would have to, you know, starve myself if I left. Whereas if I stayed, I’d have food for a month because the course had just started. No, that was one of the main reasons I stayed.
It was this thing that I said that I recognized that I was just falling into this very critical mindset, which I noticed I had, but I still have unfortunately to some extent, you know. And I just somehow prior to that in my life, I’d started to realize that that mindset was really harmful for me that brought a lot of suffering to me being so critical of other people. So I thought I have got to stop that. And combined with that was that many people who were there had come for the second time to hear Rinpoche. And I thought, well, you know, I can understand people making mistake the first time.
I can give, you know, but not the second time. And they seem normal, intelligent people and whatever. So I thought it was very arrogant of me to think I was the only person who’d realized that Lama Zopa Rinpoche was a phony. Yeah? So there was that.
And then like this friend of mine who’d done the course before had said, You have to be patient. Yeah? And he’d also had similar thoughts. He’d decided at one stage that Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche were part of a communist plot to destroy Australian youth by teaching these weird things. And then he came to the conclusion that wasn’t true, that actually the Lamas were very great, but you had to be really patient, especially with not with Lama Yeshe, because he was wonderful and very easy to relate, but it was Rinpoche who gave most of the teachings and you had to be just patient.
And if you were patient, think it paid off. So I thought, I’ll try. I’ll go back and listen. And as soon as I went back with that mindset, like I said, I could start understanding what Rinpoche was saying and it made this it really started to really hit home. And I had this experience I shouldn’t my one spiritual experience, which lasted about three quarters of a second, where I think, but I’m not sure, I really kind of it was like some light was coming from Rinpoche into into my my yeah.
Into there. But I probably had just imagined that. I’d like to think it actually happened for about a second. Oh, yeah. From Rinpoche, anything’s possible.
At times, it never happens. Mhmm. But then, yeah, everything changed from then. Yeah. But I can then remember thinking he was a phony, and then it crossed my mind.
Or I don’t know if I thought he was a phony, but just just really it just this was, you know, just painful and, you know, yeah, just awful. It was just awful. It’s really hard to believe that the beginning of the meeting. It’s not so much believing what they were saying. It’s just that whole presentation was just really out of this presentation was just really out of this world.
Yeah. It’s just too much. Are you able to explain what happens when a great being like that great being like that dies? And I was reading I was talking about Rabten. Mhmm.
And someone was talking about they had Geshe Rabten as a teacher Mhmm. And then had been back to Sera Je and his reincarnation was a little boy. Mhmm. Walked in and, you know, was talking about how he acted and all that kind of thing. It’s it seems almost like you have you still have a pure devotion to as he was in that previous life as well as some kind of allegiance to this new reincarnation or how does that work?
Well, I I don’t really know. Are you saying do you have that same devotion to the incarnated lama? Yeah. Or are you still mentally you’re devoted to what you remember as Geshe Rabten as well as like Well, I think ideally, if you can have devotion for the incarnation, it would be great because the incarnation is the incarnation. It’s the same mind stream, but I don’t think that necessarily follows.
Yeah. Maybe if you’ve got really great devotion, it would. But I don’t think there’s any obligation to have the devotion to the incarnation, yeah, of yeah. So you can continue to have guru devotion to that being in a past life. Yes, you do.
That’s the guru, yeah. And what you’re devoted to is what their teachings and how they manifested in that life. That’s your inspiration. And, you know, so that particular manifestation is finished and now they’re manifesting in a different way, but that new way may not be what you connect with. I mean, to be quite honest in my own case, maybe we can turn that off.
I don’t wanna get into too much trouble here, especially this gets