Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 47-minute teaching, Ven Thubten Dondrub addresses a fundamental Buddhist insight: desire and attachment are inseparable, and following them does not produce the happiness we expect, only sustained dissatisfaction and suffering. He opens with the heroin addiction metaphor—we are all addicts with different objects of craving—then progresses to a detailed exploration of how attachment feeds anger, aversion, and all afflicted mental states, and why abandoning desire does not lead to meaninglessness but to the opposite. A lengthy Q&A follows, touching on the nature of enlightened mind (one or many?), the difference between Dharma and Buddhism, the distinction between afflicted desire and unafflicted virtuous desire like bodhicitta, and why even attachment to noble objects—music, art, nature—prevents genuine insight. The closing section emphasizes direct experience: learning to feel and observe one’s own desire and delusion clearly, simplifying outer life to support meditative calm, and cultivating the unafflicted wish to benefit all beings. For practitioners ready to examine their own minds without spiritual bypassing.
File metadata (for organising)
File: Letting go_3.mp3
UUID: 15116dd3-4d26-421b-8fcb-f164f012538d
Teacher: Ven Thubten Dondrub
Collection: Letting go of attachment (Ven Thubten Dondrub)
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 47.4 minutes
Words: ~5,164
If you follow desire, attachment comes. You can’t separate them. It’s very clear if we look at drug addicts, with taking heroin. There is the desire for that, there’s the pleasure, and I won’t become dependent on it. I am different, right?
But attachment goes with desire, and the more pleasure you get from the desire in the first time, the more attached, yeah, the more dependent, the more one can’t separate from it. So this desire attachment would be great if they produced what we think they produce, but they don’t. They don’t produce what we think they produce, what we want them to produce. They don’t bring satisfaction. They don’t bring lasting happiness.
It doesn’t bring freedom from problems. You become a heroin addict to solve one’s problems, the dissatisfaction dissatisfaction in one’s life, but it doesn’t solve the problem. It just creates more. So we’re all heroin addicts. We just have different objects.
Some are more socially acceptable than others. But we all have this problem. So the sooner we allow ourselves to really acknowledge that, the sooner we can let go of it, we can solve the problem. But if we don’t acknowledge it and really allow ourselves to feel our own confusion, our own dissatisfaction, and to allow ourselves to feel that the desire attachment itself is suffering. It actually is painful.
Yeah, it actually is painful. And it produces it is painful, and it produces dissatisfaction in the long run. If you give up desire, one won’t become some kind of meaningless you give up meaningless blob, some worrying, hopeless blob lying in a corner, in a black hole of depression and boredom. The very opposite will happen if one gives up desire. And I hope I can try and make that clear throughout the day.
Throughout the day. But I think you will seem all to agree with me already. I hope so. Well, you don’t have to. We can have some arguments about this, some fights.
Maybe we can take a tea break, short tea break. Yeah? Yes. Okay. Thank you very much.
Ideas, some understanding how this wisdom is not something passive, but it’s an active mind, that it cannot be distorted because it’s seeing things exactly as they are, not from guesswork, you know, because sometimes we know things, but we don’t know we know. We just make the right guess, you know. You know, like on these quiz shows, what’s the capital of something? Is it this, that, the other? And the lady, you can see she oh, it’s blah.
And she gets the right answer just by pure fluke, you know. So she’s right, but not by really knowing. But when you really know things, that knowledge is not something that can be undermined in any way. So the point is that state could never have existed in the past because if it had existed in the past of having this perfect wisdom, it would exist now because it can never once there, it can’t be obscured. So this means that the ignorance has always been there.
But you were saying this, Mike, this point, but why this is kind of implying that something must have put it there, but no, there’s nothing it’s just it is there because it couldn’t have not been there, because if it wasn’t there, there would be this wisdom. This mind and perfect wisdom, as you said, has the highest achievement, by the implication that you can polish it up till you get to that point, it becomes a singular thing attached to me whether in this level or next or so on. But then it also would be limited in number. Is it not a general vessel into which all things grow back in this mind in general? Otherwise it becomes a type which is attached to me and thereby implication it must be all limited and there must be a given number.
No. There’s many things in there. This mind isn’t attached to me. Even this pure mind isn’t attached to me because that that even what you’re saying there is showing there is not the right view of I. Right?
Yeah. I don’t I want to get rid of this I, and I see Yeah. And achieve it if you like your mind. This is a quite becomes mind, so to speak. I don’t want it like mind.
I want it have a general flow of all things. No, but when mind is liberated, when you have wisdom, there’s not a sense of mind in the way we think now. There isn’t that at all. But still, if I don’t get that right, in the next life I’ll still be suffering from what I did last time around. No, not once there is wisdom.
No, but on the path. Yes, yes. Right. Sure. Attached to me, not to the person next door at this point here.
Right. So it is a singular thing, it is just mine, which is limited. It’s a discrete entity going on moment by moment within its own continuum. Sure. Thus it’s limited in number so it must predetermine what number that is because you can’t make more.
Right. You can’t make more minds. No, you can’t make more minds. That’s true. I’d like to think that this this pure mind, is a much greater dimension than just being attached to that lineage of my own identity, whether it be I or Bruce I or mine, whatever.
But it’s just too narrow for my pain. It must flow into this great, wonderful cosmos, if you like. Well, does. Does. Can say it does, in a sense.
Sure. There are some debates about this, you see. In Tibetan Buddhism, there is like in Zen Buddhism, they have this very interesting expression, which I quite like, where they say, Not one and not two. The enlightened mind is not one, but it’s not two. So that’s very interesting to think about.
Because the point is, one thing is that the mind is existing, but the way it exists is in a way that we’re not familiar with because we are only our knowledge, all our knowledge now, is based on what we call common sense, which is a very interesting word because it is common and it’s from sense impressions. There’s sense consciousnesses, the five sense consciousnesses. So it’s knowledge based on physical stuff and the way physical things work is our knowledge. The mind works in another way. It’s one of our attachments again, perhaps, that we are too stuck to our logic, to our to pigeonhole everything instead of leaving it to let it Also in the Tibetan tradition there is one argument, one school that says that when you become enlightened there are many separate enlightened minds, still these separate continuums, just as there are now for unenlightened beings.
But there is another view which says that when one achieves enlightenment, although before that there are these separate mind streams, after that there is basically just the one mind, the one enlightened mind which is called the dharmakaya. Technically, Buddhism, in Mahāyāna Buddhism, is called the dharmakaya. But also, when you think about mind and whatever, it’s important to remember also from the wisdom point of view is that mind and matter are not really separate things. So when there is enlightenment, mind is knowing everything and is one oneness with everything. This is what unenlightenment is.
Ignorance is creating this sense separation, a very distinct separation, and the illusion that there is a difference between me and my mind and all external things, a very, very rigid separation. Where’s the market generated? Where’s the generated? Generating? Where’s the market Where’s market a little bit, but not enough yet.
Another thing you mentioned about my one more point. You mentioned desire as in polite and detachments, but desire can also be in much more, perhaps it’s a wrong word, noble sense, like listening to music or taking a walk in the bush or watching the moon rise or this or, you know, any of these things, I think they whilst they’re bizarre, they bring us closer to that mindfulness rather than attachment. Attachment? No. I I think you have to be careful with these things, you know.
I mean, if we’re going to use this word in in a Buddhist context, then it has specific meaning. You can’t mix it all up because then one will never understand what desire is. Desire always goes with attachment, and it is an affliction, and it is the main affliction. Sure, you can wish for things, but often Well, the trouble is with us, as ordinary people, we have wishes for things, but usually our wishes are mixed with desire and attachment. It’s very difficult at our level not for those things to become inseparable.
Looking for a five star hotel. In fact, you wish it away as fast as can. What you’re doing you’re giving yourself talking to the moment. You desire the continuation of that, but that is finer because the moment you stand up, it’s gone. Yeah.
One shouldn’t think that desire attachment is for gross things, gross physical things. Desire is a very, very subtle mind. It’s just like millionaires have desire and poor people don’t have desire. Poor people have lots of desire, too. It depends on the motivation.
But yes, sure, it can be. Also, one has to understand in a Buddhist context I’m just speaking very honestly. I could say it’s all okay, but and I’m not saying you should stop seeing context. The Mahāyāna teachings, as I tried to say, any religion, the basic quality of a religion is that it is trying to show us that there is more than this life and the things in this life. There is something much, much greater.
Sure, there are good things in this life pleasant things, nice things, enjoyable things. There is no doubt like sitting by rivers, seeing beautiful beautiful trees, sunsets, all these kind of things. They’re very nice and enjoyable and pleasant, definitely. But none of these things by themselves altogether, no matter how long you will experience them, will bring inner satisfaction. Right?
This is the point. This is the point. Maybe it seems a very strong point, but how to say this? Just go back again. All I can say to repeat myself is that we want this pure, lasting happiness, and anything else is only dissatisfying.
The point is, from the Buddhist understanding, we can achieve it. We can become Buddhas. We can have perfect, lasting happiness. Actually, I’m getting really sick of this word happiness because it’s a really unsatisfying word, but I hope you know what I don’t mean sort of going to parties and giggling and that kind of happiness, but deep peace, contentment, a sense of meaningfulness, complete. We have that ability.
It is there, and nothing else can compare to that. Everything is far, far less. Right? Because we don’t have that, we are dissatisfied, and we’re seeking that all the time. But it gets distorted to limited things.
And while we have some, even attachment to very subtle things, it keeps us within the cycle of what is called saṃsāra rebirth again and again and again and again. It keeps us trapped in a limited experience again and again and again. And to some extent, you could say, That’s not so bad. That’s not so bad. But the point is, it doesn’t work in the process that you just have nice lives one after the other.
It doesn’t work like that. Why there is delusion in the mind? Because the point is, if we have one delusion, one affliction, we have all of them. They all go together. The potential is there.
Right? Because the affliction, any affliction depends on the root affliction of ignorance. So if there is desire, attachment, then there is anger, there is jealousy, there is pride, there is fear, hate, irritation, annoyance, depression, boredom, everything, or at least the potential for it. And I think it’s not all there’s also the restriction of our very language, which is so Western orientated that very often you can’t find the right words for what the soul wants to say. Even from your point of view, must be so difficult.
But as you try it in the language, in a sense, there’s so many more subtle tones, but we just haven’t heard it, and therefore it becomes very difficult to get that truth of the thought across. But to some extent one can, maybe I can’t. I think to a large extent I won’t get the idea. But I think what I was saying about the language problem is that we have to be aware that in Buddhism, words have a specific meaning. Words in our language can have other connotations.
If you listen to them in the Buddhadharma, one has to try to understand them from that perspective and not bring all this other stuff along. Otherwise we don’t understand it. We’ll never get the point. Because you say, Oh, attachment is affection and affection’s good. Sure, affection is good, but affection isn’t what is called attachment, is not part of attachment.
Affection is a quality of loving kindness, and loving kindness has got nothing, nothing to do with attachment. In fact, while you have attachment, you can’t have love. It is impossible, real love, because that’s the way the mind works. You can’t have two opposite minds existing at the same time. Attachment is an affliction.
While there is an affliction in the mind, while it’s actually operating, you can’t have love. If you have love, you can’t have attachment in the one moment. So anyway, while there are afflictions and the potential it doesn’t mean that we have desire all the time and all these other negative minds all the time. But while there is ignorance, there is the potential for them all the time. And they’re all there.
You don’t have just If there is ignorance, you have the potential for all afflicted thoughts, not just one or two of them. You have the potential for all of them. So the more you follow one of those, the more you’re creating the causes for the other ones to develop as well, more and more. And eventually they will because of time and because of karma. We have all these karmic imprints.
So while we remain in saṃsāra, in this limited situation, it means that sooner or later all our karma has to ripen. And we have sorry, the bad news from a Buddhist point of view, every living being has created, of course, lots of good karma, but we have created all sorts of unbelievable negative karma in previous lives because of ignorance, not because we are evil but because of ignorance, of not knowing. So while remaining attached attached to the nice things of this life, which are nice and pleasant, we create the cause, the situation, where we’re going to experience our negative karma, at the very least. Right. Not only in this life, but most of other aspects.
Yes, because while one is enjoying the nice things of this life, that is our good karma and running out. And we may do nice things in this life during that time, but it doesn’t necessarily follow that our next life will be the same. Right, of course. Yes, yes, sure. We are bringing the ignorance with us, Yeah.
So also one thing I would like to try and make clear also is that because I think also Western Buddhists kind of mix the Buddhist view with all sorts of other our previous cultural and religious views. And when we talk about delusions as afflictions, one shouldn’t think of them as being evil. Right? Because if you think of them in that terms, then the mind doesn’t really want to listen to what it really means. Or even if you do want to listen, then you feel so much loathing.
I’m full of desire, therefore I’m full of evil. I’m an evil person. I have desire, anger. It doesn’t mean that at all, which is not to say that desire, anger, these things are good things, but they are not evil, that they are coming from ignorance, they are unskillful, they are not meaningful states of mind. They are not ultimately meaningful.
They are unskillful. They don’t lead to the good of the world, as the Buddha would say. They don’t lead to what one really wants. One is not evil for following them, but one is not so wise. I think it is really important to understand that.
Also, we talk about karma, negative karma isn’t evil. You don’t create negative karma because you’re evil, and negative karma itself isn’t the creation of evil. It’s the creation of unskillful acts that lead to suffering, unsatisfying experiences. And it’s not evil people who create negative karma it’s good people, because everyone is good. Everyone has basic goodness.
But we basically good people, out of our confusion, out of our ignorance, of create negative karma. Good people suffer, too. It’s not just evil people who suffer. It’s good people suffer because also good people have created negative karma in the past, and the suffering results have experienced at some time. I will say this point.
Maybe it will upset you, but this is my understanding, my view, and I feel as a Buddhist monk. I should try and say these things. I also like sitting next to rivers watching them and sunsets and all these nice things and being in forests and seeing trees and oceans and all these beautiful things, but this also can be attachment, yeah, and beautiful music. I love paintings. I spent my life studying paintings.
I like all these things. I definitely like them. I am probably attached to them all. Not so much now, I hope. I hope I’m much less.
But the point is, even these nice things, and if you’re attached to them, none of these things, all the great literature of the world, the great music of the world, none of it will make make us happy. None of it will bring us inner satisfaction, in my opinion, I think in the Buddhist opinion. It’s not to say these things are bad and evil. They have some great truths in them. These great paintings and works of literature and music and so on, and just experiencing nature.
They can bring some peace and understanding, but not the complete thing. You can definitely be attached to these things, incredible attachment to them. Just generally speaking, because I can’t understand, know how specific people can relate to these things. And I think certain people in certain ways can use these things on their path, but think generally it’s very difficult, very difficult. So these things, one’s attachment to those things, just enjoying the pleasure of those things, which can be a very subtle pleasure.
Right? But the attachment to that, it doesn’t allow you to work with your mind. I mean, there are people in the world who can enjoy these things. Their life is devoted to the beautiful things of this life: beautiful food, beautiful music, all the various kinds of arts. But those things will not lead to insight and wisdom.
If you go to Buddhist monasteries and temples and things, they try to make them beautiful for the same reason. In quieter places, and so and quiet places in natural environments, sure, because it is conducive. But if you get attached to the things, you can spend your time looking at the nice thangkas and stuff and you miss the point. I would debate a little bit on that.
I would disagree to some extent because attachment has certain qualities the nature of it and the object. Sure, some people can be I would say people can become attached to Buddhism. Sure, you can become attached to Buddhism, but you can’t become attached to the Dharma. There is a big difference between practicing the Dharma, being a Dharma practitioner, which is what we are trying to be, and being a Buddhist. It’s very easy to be a Buddhist and to be attached to all these things and having thangkas and nice blah blah blahs and ringing bells and all that kind of stuff.
You can be attached to being Buddhist and being a religious person, but you can’t be attached to the Dharma. Buddhism is the creation of ordinary people. It is a contaminated phenomena, and the object of attachment, desire, is always phenomena. The Dharma is not a contaminated phenomena, and you cannot be attached to it. You can wish to follow it, and that wish is an incredibly important wish generate because that wish will lead you out of suffering.
And that wish is absolutely essential to generate. And one of those wishes is called bodhicitta, the wish to achieve enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings. That is an unafflicted desire, which is what we are supposed to generate, the desire to become a Buddha for the sake of all sentient beings. But that desire is not desire. It is not afflicted desire.
It is a pure, perfect, virtuous thought that does not have anything to do with ignorance. It is a mind arising from wisdom, and it leads to all good qualities, whereas attachment and desire is produces suffering. That’s the trouble. We can play with these words and say, oh, you’re just attached to this and that, but you can’t be attached to the Dharma. I would definitely argue that you can be attached to your version of it and being a Buddhist and Buddhism, but you can’t be attached if you have a correct perception of these things, you can’t be attached to those.
The trouble is we don’t have enough desire for these things because of our attachment to lesser things. Why we don’t have the wish for enlightenment of enlightenment of bodhicitta is because we’re attached. We have attachment to the things of this life. And attachment has the function of just generating the illusion of this isolated self. I mean, even when you listen generally speaking, even when you’re listening to beautiful music of Beethoven, looking at the most greatest paintings in the world, there is this sense of I appreciating these things.
It is not the I that goes out and murders people, but it is still a sense of I which is the source of suffering. Because we shouldn’t think that the source of suffering is something evil, some terrible evil thing growing in us that has to be killed because it’s so disgusting and filthy. It’s not. Ignorance is just a confused mind that is misconceiving misconceiving things. It is a very, very subtle thing, but it leads to all terrible things.
Right. I hope I’m making some sense. Yeah. Because while we have these imprints of ignorance in our mind, even as good people There are so many things to say about attachment. I haven’t got there yet, right?
There’s many things. But also, one negative quality of attachment is that it leads to anger and hate and aversion, irritation, annoyance, contempt, loathing, fear, and everything else. Anger only exists because attachment. This is an important thing to contemplate because we have this attachment to our pleasures, and anything that makes one self feel secure and strong, that is naturally good from its own side. Anything that exaggerate that.
Because of that, anger and aversion arises. Particularly anger aversion always arises because we had wished this happiness and we were attached to the little small pleasures we have, then anything that interferes with that is evil and bad and has to be, you know, eliminated, removed, eliminated, destroyed. First, just kind of stop it, move it away, harm it, kill it. And it’s all because of attachment, attachment to what I’ve got or what I want. There’s no way anger can arise without attachment being there first.
Then anger itself is an extremely harmful mind. We all have the potential for it because we all have attachment, because we have ignorance. And because we have the potential for anger, if we put in a particular situation, we could do all sorts of terrible things if all the conditions come together. Because the single strongest attachment we have is to me, to me, the sense of me. So when that is threatened, and if it’s threatened strongly, then anger, hate, loathing, bigotry erupts.
And the interesting thing to understandmaybe I’m saying too many things at once bombarding your mind, sorrybut one of the We have the potential for afflictions in our mind. The potential is there all the time because ignorance is there. It’s been there during beginningless time. Potentials for all the afflicted thoughts are there all the time. One can go throughout one’s whole life thinking, I’m a nice, warm, loving, peaceful person.
But the affliction, the potential for hate, loathing, is there because ignorance is there, because the sense of self, the wrong sense of self is there, is here, folks. It is in us right now. And why we go on thinking I’m a nice, sweet, loving, kind, generous person is because we have the good fortune, the good karma in this life or for much of our life not to meet the object of our anger. But when the object of our delusions, when we meet the object of the delusion power, the delusion arises without any awareness or control. This is the main cause of our disturbing thoughts to arise.
The main cause, well, is the potential in our mind, the seed, the karma, the seed of the delusion in our mind that’s been generated moment by moment since during beginningless time. But then you meet the object. And when you meet the object, it arises. So if it’s a desire, you know, you see some beautiful person, attractive person, thing, or whatever. The desire was there before, but the potential was, and then you meet across a crowded room, right?
Boom. And then all of sudden, you look at someone and you can’t stand them. You hate them. You’ve never seen them before. You’ve never spoken to them before.
They haven’t said anything or done anything to you, but you can’t stand them because you’ve met the object, because the imprint is there. Yes. Right, right. Yeah. Well, secretly, I have been producing one of the main trying to explain one of the main strategies, but I do it so subtly, most people miss the point.
Sorry, I’m just joking. The point I’ve been trying to make is the simple fact that if one starts to see these things for oneself, to understand that, that is one of the main solutions, in my opinion. I think in the opinion of the dharma too. There are specific things to do, but I think one of the main things is just allowing ourselves to know, experience our own delusions, our own attachment and desire objectively, to feel our own desire and attachment. And if you feel it, we can feel its pain, that it is disturbing the mind.
And as soon as we allow ourselves to know that, not up here but in here. Yeah. And that’s the problem, because it’s easy intellectually to know it up there, but one has to allow oneself to feel it. And when you feel it, you start letting go. There’s millions of strategies how to you just have to do that yourself more and more, to allow oneself when there is desire there to really feel that desire.
Usually you don’t. No. You just operate on it instantly without even being aware of the ‘I desire’ Just like when there is anger, people say, Don’t get so angry. I’m not angry? Who said I’m angry?
I’m not angry. You can’t even admit it yourself. You’re not even aware of it in the time. Or you it up with other words, I’m just a little annoyed. I’m just upset.
I’m just a little excited at the moment. But I’m not angry. Anything but to admit to ourselves what our actual state of mind is. But this is sati, awareness. Yes.
So this is why one of the basic methods we need is just to have a calmer mind. If you do something like the breathing meditation regularly, become a little bit adept at it, if we become a little bit skillful in that, our mind in the meditation becomes calmer and clearer. And in that state, if desire attachment arises, one can see, one can feel its nature more in that state one can see it. But also, as one develops that kind of meditation in one’s daily life, life, there’s a little bit more calmness and clarity in the mind in one’s daily life. And so when desire arises in the mind in that state, when you are leading basically a calmer, more simple, less confused, busy life when desire arises, which it will still, because it’s not going to go away overnight, one can see it more clearly.
One can feel it for what it is. That’s one the main strategies: working on the mind just in a very general way, allowing the mind to be more calm and clear. Of course, one does that formally in meditation, but for these meditations to work successfully, more and more successfully, one’s outer life has to be calmer and clearer anyway, a less busy life, a less complicated life. I mean, these two things have to harmonize our inner practice and our outer life as much as we can. I mean, we live in a very bizarre, agitated world and that we can’t control, but we can try to modify our involvement in this excessively speedy, distracted world.
If we want to develop our mind not just temporarily but for the long term, and not just for our own sake but for the benefit of the people around us, and not just for the people around us, but for everyone. If we try and generate that wish, that virtuous desire, that unafflicted desire to benefit others, then we need to simplify our life. But again, of course, why do we have such a busy, agitated, frantic life? Desire, because of attachment, because we think these things will make us happy. And because we don’t trust our inner qualities that there’s oh, there’s nothing inside.
There’s nothing really in there worth looking for. But out there, there’s always wonderful things. Look at them. They’re getting bigger every year and shinier and more expensive.