Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 100-minute afternoon teaching from a Kālacakra Initiation retreat, Ven Thubten Dondrub walks through the classical Buddhist framework for overcoming afflictive emotions by investigating their faults rather than fighting them with anger. He unpacks the second half of verse nineteen and verse twenty of a root text, beginning with the metaphor of waging war against inner enemies: the victorious warriors disregard their own suffering to conquer hatred and other afflictions, while those overpowered by negative emotions commit senseless acts like killing corpses. He then systematically defines the six root afflictive emotions—attachment, anger, pride, ignorance, afflicted doubt, and wrong views—with concrete examples (a person clinging to an old car, someone paralysed by uncertainty about liberation) that illustrate how each one distorts perception and undermines freedom. The core teaching is methodical: to engage in battle with afflictions, one must carefully analyse their complete lack of genuine benefit and their countless faults, accumulating knowledge that gradually erodes their power. He concludes with verse twenty-one on how suffering itself—by crushing pride and generating compassion—becomes a doorway to virtue. The Q&A explores the relationship between free will and the moment before attachment arises, and how realising emptiness permanently eliminates the root cause of all afflictions. Aimed at practitioners with foundational Buddhist training.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 11. Day 2 Teaching afternoon.mp3
UUID: 8e744ee1-870c-4788-a810-2e1a9dcff495
Teacher: Ven Thubten Dondrub
Collection: KI Retreat (Ven Thubten Dondrub)
Date: 2005 (exact day not recorded)
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 100.5 minutes
Words: ~5,761
So now we are in the we’re going to the second half of the nineteenth verse and the text, the commentary mentions the division, which is the fourth division of what is that? Of the four. Okay. So, is the fourth division of how do you say cultivating the patience that embrace suffering, right? So this division is called the benefits of putting effort in abandoning afflictive emotions.
So we go the second half of the nineteenth verse and straight into the twentieth verse in this text. So the verse reads something like, When we wage wars against the afflictive emotions, much harm is caused, comes about in the time of battle. This one. This one. So the victorious warriors are those that disregarding all suffering, having conquered the enemies of hatred and so forth.
The remaining, how do you say, kill only corpses. Okay? So and then the remaining slay only corpses, and Geshe-la is saying that Geshe-la says that the remaining here refers to refers other afflictive emotions that when when overpowered by them, we end up doing causing senseless harm to other beings. So those those that who are overpowered by anger and and then kill another sentient being another being, those are, are killing only corpses. The sense, Geshe-la explains that, meaning, how do you say, Meaning meaning Just saying that it it is a senseless a senseless act.
That’s what it the meaning that it’s trying to convey. Loss. So, yeah, it’s just So so not seeing not seeing that the real enemy are the afflictive emotions and then people beings engaging in in senseless acts as such as as killing another being. And then what benefit is there from that?
So, yeah, it’s just that so if engaging engaging this acts out of out of these afflictive emotions is is just meaningless and senseless like like killing corpses. So Geshe-la is now explaining what is understood as afflictive emotions. So, he says that there are many divisions of afflictive emotions. There is a division of twenty-one that comes out of a main division of six, and this division of six can further be reduced into three. But he says that the most important one is the division of six, which is So the the six afflictive emotions are are this attachment, anger, hatred attachment, hatred, how do you say, pride pride, ignorance afflicted doubt, and the sixth one Tawa. And the sixth one, Tawa. Wrong views.
Wrong Wrong Okay. Views. Wrong views. Yeah. Wrong views.
Okay. Wrong views. So this is the main division of afflictive emotions that we have to recognize. Again, I say this. This one?
So these are the afflictive emotions that we have to ascertain and these are afflictive emotions that we are going to engage in in battle. So Geshe-la is giving, was giving a definition of attachment, which is quite technical, but he explained to me in simple colloquial language. And then it’s just like attachment is that state of mind that grasps at the object, it apprehends, and not only that, but it’s the state of mind that does not wish to be separated from that object. Furthermore, Geshe-la added that the mind that is attached to a certain object will also impute qualities even though the object may may may not be good or beneficial. It will impute qualities to that object, and it will keep on holding on to it.
So Geshe-la was just giving the example of, for example, someone who is attached to to his old car, and he develops great attachment. He thinks, oh, this car is very good. It’s very beautiful. He thinks to himself, and then he doesn’t wish ever to be separated from this car. Even though everyone else doesn’t like this car and doesn’t see any use to it, this person will be will be attached to it.
And and and so this this is called attachment. And, yeah, in in Tibetan, they they use they have different terms for that, but in English, comes out as attachment or desire. Yeah. Okay. This one.
So the answer is that in fact, the car is in the nature is the car is true suffering, as mentioned in one of the four noble truths. Right? The the first noble truth, true sufferings. So he says, the car is true suffering, but not knowing that, then we generate attachment to it and we say, oh, I like this car very much, we say to ourselves, and then we never wish to be separated from it. So whatever whatever this mind that is afflicted with attachment, whatever it apprehends, it will apprehend us as something good.
Even though even though the phenomenon that that it is apprehending might not be good, it will it will think that it is. So Geshe-la mentions various objects of attachment. He says we develop attachment to a car or to a person or to food or to any other small objects or whatever objects there is. And then this mind that develops this attachment will not want to be separated from this object of attachment mainly. So when we out and we see objects that that various objects, and then we think, oh, I like this, and I like that, and I like such and so, and then this this is a manifestation of attachment, Geshe-la says.
So so now Gela is explaining anger. So anger is anger is a state of mind that dislikes whatever or whoever causes us harm. Then, Gela added before that, was explaining in another way, he was explaining that anger is the mind that will be distressed or disrupted when separated from those things that it likes. So if if there is some somebody there is a person whom he doesn’t like he doesn’t like because this person might be causing harm to him or might be causing harm to a friend or to a relative or might be causing harm to to to his belongings, and then because of that, he he he anger arises. So this now, Geshe-la is explaining the mind that is afflicted with pride.
So pride is is the mind thinks oneself, thinks highly of oneself, thinks of oneself as being better than others, and then thinks of oneself as being more intelligent or educated than others, and then it looks down on everyone else. Such a mind is afflicted with pride. So so Gerala is explaining now the the the fourth one of them, which is ignorance, which is it’s it’s again, it’s a specific mental factor. And explained that this kind of this this ignorance, which which is is associated with this word in Tibetan, is just a lack of clarity. It would be just just just it’s just it’s just the mind that does not does not is unable to apprehend an object due to lack of knowledge.
So it’s it’s just lack of knowledge. And then Gela gives the example. So for example, after learning the ABC, and then if we understand the letter A, we know the letter A, and then we do not have the ignorance in relation to the letter A anymore. We don’t have this ma rigpa anymore. Okay?
So if if if we if we, how do say, put an end to this kind of ignorance, then we end up knowing everything. We’ll be able to know everything, but as long as we have it, then we cannot know everything. So now, Gela is explaining what is afflicted doubt. Right? So it’s the state of mind that is not sure if something is or if something is not.
And then Gela was giving the particular example of, for example, liberation, and then not not knowing not having any certainty about liberation. We we do not engage in proper meditation or any proper practices to achieve it because we are afflicted with doubt. Then not knowing also not knowing well causes and their effects, you know, just looking at a cause, we will not know for sure if from a certain cause we will derive benefits or we will derive or if suffering will arise, so then we do not act, how do you say, correctly, properly in relation to to this phenomenon that we we have met with. So so Geshe-la is saying that this afflicted doubt is is is is very bad. And, for example, if if we are working and then we we get money out of this out of this work, and we don’t have any doubts about it, and we we keep on working.
But if eventually we are working, and then we we do not get any money about it out of it, and then we are not we’re not sure about it, about this this job anymore or whatever, then we just don’t don’t do the job anymore. We don’t do we don’t stop working. So Gaelais was explaining to to me in various ways the meaning of of the word tower, which is in English will come just as view. And then he says that this mind, which is affected with this mental factor called view, is a mind that assumes that everything it perceives exists the way they appear to itself, right? So, in a way that will be, how to say, inherently existent.
Right? And then well, so he he explained that in many, many ways. So it seems like he he said a lot of different things, but he said the same thing in different ways. Right? But then on top of that, he had that, okay, the view that, okay, that sees cause and effect as in existence, right, that is a wrong view.
So wrong view is, for example, the mind that does not believe in cause and effect. Right? Now this other mental factor that is called just view is something else. Okay? There’s a distinction between the two.
Okay? Okay. Do you understand? Do you understand? Yes?
It’s not only you, it’s just you. No. Yeah. Exactly. It’s a different thing.
It’s a different thing. Pardon? So so then Gennala explains, so have you having understood what are these these six afflictive emotions, then now we have as as as it says on the verse, on the it will be the second half of the nineteenth verse. As I say in the verse, we have to engage in battle with each one of these afflictive emotions with attachment, anger, pride, so forth. So so can I explain?
So usually, when we engage in battle with another person, we are engaging in battle out of out of out of anger. We are overpowered by anger, and then we engage in in in we start fighting with another person until one of one of one of the two dies. So so Gael says, this is not the way that we have to engage in battle with these afflictive emotions. And Geshe-la was so, what is the way? Geshe-la asks, and and he says he says, if we take, for example, attachment, then what we have to do is investigate and see the faults of attachment.
And also, out of attachment, we will accumulate a lot of negativities, we will generate the causes of suffering and generate we will meet with suffering in the future out of that, and so on and so on and so forth. Then also knowing that there is there are no good qualities in relation to attachment, and knowing both of these faults and there is a huge amount of faults and there is a total lack of qualities to attachment, then we stop it. And but there is no there is but but on top of that, we should not get angry with attachment. There is no place for anger in this kind of combat. So, again, coming back to the example of of the car.
So being attached to the car, we we we ought to to investigate what are the real qualities of the car, what what are the faults, and then and also the mind that is grasping at the car. So, again, I say, okay, a car can take you to different places, for long distance and so forth, but then, also, there are many many there are many faults that that a car also also brings about, many faults. We don’t know all of them. There are there are many faults that come with them. Many of them we don’t know we don’t know of, but we know for sure that based on the car as having the car as a basis, we generate attachment that will will bring us, how to say, attachment and other afflictive emotions, and that it will cause us to engage in in negative deeds.
So again, I gave gave quite a few examples when we are attached, for example, to a very old car, and it’s a dangerous vehicle to to use and so forth, or or when someone, you know, touches your car that you you’re very attached to this car, then you get angry with this person who is who is messing around with your car and so forth. So we shouldn’t so the the so in in the end, there are not there are not many qualities to this car. And then we shouldn’t we shouldn’t think of it as more than than than it is. Okay. So Gela is Gela is saying that he doesn’t have a car, so for him, it’s it’s alright to say that a car is a bad thing.
So he says that this is okay. This example of the car okay. How to say, this this does not it’s not restricted only to to to cars. Okay? afflictive emotions can come about in relation to any any other object, you know, and yeah.
That’s it. So so after having investigated the car and the mind that is grasping at the car, and then we we we know that there is just little benefit in relation to the car, that that, for example, the car can take you to different places for long distance and so forth. And then there’s just a little benefit, a little just a few good qualities, and there’s a lot of faults in relation to to to the car, for example. So of the manifolds, grasping at the car or any other objects will eventually, causing you to engage in negative deeds, eventually interrupt, stop you from ever being able to achieve liberation or enlightenment. So knowing all these faults and knowing just a few qualities to it, and then we can put an end to this attachment.
Okay? So this is the way, Geshe-la says, this is the way that we have to engage in battle with, for example, with attachment, knowing the faults, the shortcomings, and the benefits of the objects we’re engaging with. So and then now how to to engage in battle with anger, and then the tactic is the same. We have to see the faults of anger and then and the and and the good qualities of anger. And first of all, Gala says that there are absolutely no good qualities to anger.
And then as for faults, there are so many, and Geshe-la listed a few examples. I’m sorry. He said in general that many times we get angry in order to in order to get something that we like, in order to obtain to get to a happy result, in order to obtain happiness, and then but acting in this way, we completely obstruct any way to achieve any happiness. Gela is saying that the same goes for all the other afflictions. So with the six afflictive emotions, have no qualities.
They have no there is there are no good qualities to them whatsoever. There are only they are only faults. But, usually, we see qualities in them. So, yeah, but usually we see we see good in them, but in fact, if you investigate for this, how to say, tactic of war, you will come to realize that there is there is no good qualities to them. There is only faults.
And and so so that being so, we we must we must investigate carefully all of them. So now Geshe-la is talking about pride, and then he first, says, okay. This pride is is the mind that thinks highly of oneself and looks looks down on others, and then it’s the mind that even though even though the person might not be very intelligent or educated, still this mind will think, oh, that I am I am I have a lot of education. I’m very intelligent and so forth. So this mind that is afflicted with pride this mind that is afflicted with pride and and attachment and anger and so forth, it’s a it’s a mind that has that has no independence.
That is is what is to say, it is it is overpowered overpowered by this by this afflictions loss. Okay. Okay. So so it’s so the mind that is afflicted with this this affected with these afflictions, so with attachment, if he sees something that he likes, it goes it grasps at it strongly, and and there is there is no we don’t have any any choice to it in relation to it. If if we are afflicted with anger, then we will harm someone, you know, and, again, we are overpowered by it.
It’s not like we we can make any choice. And then, if we are afflicted with pride, we will think highly of us and and look look down on others. And, again, it’s it’s are overpowered by this afflictive emotion, and it’s not like we have any independence. Free will is the word I was looking for. Free will.
So all all these afflictive emotions will will how to say? Will won’t let one practice Dharma properly. Not only that, but, for example, afflicted doubt will definitely how to say? Just just thinking, oh, this maybe there is benefit in practicing it, or I’m not sure, but maybe there is no benefit in practicing it. So something like afflicted doubt will definitely stop one, say, prevent one from engaging Dharma practice.
So then again, Gennard explained what is view. He’s explaining again what what is this mental factors called view, and he says, again, this the mind that when sees an object, thinks that that the object is just the way it appears, or or the mind that thinks thinks of something that is not thinks of something that is not thinks that it is, and thinks of something that that is as not being. Is that okay? Mhmm. Okay.
So and then and then understanding all all these these things about all the suffocated emotions, we know that there is no absolutely no no good qualities to them, and then we can we can we we see all these faults, and then we can we can put an end to them, engage in better and put an end to them. So so and then, again, if seeing all the the the attachment, for example, there are no good qualities to it, seeing all the the faults there are to it, and then we can and then we are able to put an end to it and to attachment, for example, and then the same with all the other afflictive emotions. And if we think of all the shortcomings, we will be able to put an end to them, and then we’ll be able to achieve a state as, for example, the state of a foe destroyers, an Arhat, or and so forth, who has who is someone who has put an end to all these afflictive emotions. So so engaging engaging in battle with the the afflictive emotions in this way and meditating again and again, a foe destroyers goes through through all the stages, through the five paths, the path of accumulation, preparation, seeing, meditation, and no more learning.
He goes, and at which stage he’s fighting, engaging in battles with these afflictive emotions while he’s meditating and reflecting and studying and so forth, and then until he can put an end to them and and and how do you say how do you say? And and then to the point that they are they won’t arise again, ever again. So then, Ganai, he wants to finish with this verse. He’s just bringing to mind again that we have to engage in battle with afflictive emotions, but in order to engage in battle with afflictive emotions, we have to know how to engage in battle. If we don’t know how to engage with afflictive emotions, then we won’t be able to put an end to them.
So we have to know the proper way to engage in battle with afflictive emotions. So, now we go to the next verse, verse twenty one, and then before the text introduces the next division, which is, how do you say, an extensive explanation of of the qualities of the meditation on suffering. Okay? So this verse is is describing the qualities of of suffering. So, it goes something like this.
Furthermore, suffering does have good qualities. By being disheartened with it, pride is dispelled, cleared away. Compassion arises for those in cyclic existence, and evil is avoided, and we rejoice in virtue. So, yes. So so Gennai explained that how important suffering is, and then he gives the example of of a certain kind of gods.
And there’s certain gods that they they experience no suffering whatsoever. They experience only pleasure, and because they are immersed in pleasure, they will never they never remember to practice the Dharma and to do to engage in virtuous deeds and so forth. So that’s that’s how important suffering is because they they experience no suffering, they don’t remember the Dharma, so they don’t engage in virtuous. Only by by experiencing suffering, we can because of that, we can engage in we engage in dharma and virtuous deeds and so forth. So again, Geshe-la is saying that knowing suffering, we can generate compassion for other sentient beings, so because we see other beings in cyclic existence suffering, then because we see this suffering, then we can we can know we know we we can we have the possibility of generating compassion.
Okay. So so because we experience suffering, and then we we know we know of the existence of suffering in us, then we we see other beings, and we know that of the existence of suffering in them, and then understanding this, we can generate compassion. So then the next line, the last line of the verse has two parts. One of them is it says evil is avoided. So because we know because we experience suffering, we know that suffering arises from certain causes, and then that there are there are negative deeds, and then suffering arise from negative deeds.
So and knowing that, we we stop engaging in negative deeds because we know suffering. Knowing suffering, we stop engaging negative So, again and again, the second part of the verse, so Geshe-la explains that knowing is suffering, and then we we know also that if we engage in virtue, we will find we will meet with happiness. So then then we then create a liking for virtue. So now we have short time for questions and answers. Now it’s time for tea drinking.
This concept of view, is that specifically referring to not realising the emptiness of a wrong perception of an object that is inherently existent, or is it I don’t quite understand. So Gaela says the view this view is the is is is is how do you say? Seeing things as inherently existence. Right? And the wisdom that realizes the non inherent existence of things is the opposite of that.
Right? So it’s exactly opposite. This is exactly opposite. So realizing emptiness, realizing that things are lacking inherent existence, then you eliminate this afflictive emotion that’s called view, the view. Okay.
Yeah. I see now. Yeah. Anymore? Anymore?
Don’t be shy. When you realise emptiness, is the seed of anger still Or is it totally So Geshe-la explains that in relation to to emptiness, there is two two kinds of emptiness. Emptiness of of self and then and the emptiness do say? The emptiness of inherent existence of the self and the emptiness of inherent existence of phenomena. So, he says that if one realizes this emptiness of inherent existence of the self, which will put an end to self grasping, then you also put an end to all afflictive emotions because all afflictive emotions have, as a cause, self grasping.
So, realizing the view, realizing emptiness is putting an end to self grasping. It’s putting an end to the cause of afflictive emotion. It’s putting an end to them. Mhmm. Okay.
So there’s no chance that no chance that they can come back? No. For them, I get the wrong. I guess so. I hope not.
Okay. So so Geshe-la says no, they if you realize if you realize the emptiness, then the afflictive emotions are completely destroyed. Then Geshe-la goes on to comment that if one meditates in the Mahāyāna, one meditates in both the mind of enlightenment and in emptiness and on emptiness, and like that, the Mahāyāna will achieve the state of Buddhahood, and the Hinayanist will meditate on renunciation and on emptiness. Mhmm. And at this, he will achieve the state of a full foe destroyers.
Okay. When you were talking about the afflictive emotions and particularly attachment, you said the antidote to attachment is to look at all the negativities that arise from it and absolutely no good can come of it. And you also mentioned though that in the presence of attachment it’s almost like you lose free will, like the power of the object you’re attached to. I was wondering, that being so, it’s hard to remember all the negativities that arise from attachment when you’re in the presence of the object you’re attached to and if Geshe la had any So for example, I gave this example with the pencil, and he he went to the to his glasses. And he said, if I am a if if one is very attached to to to these glasses, for example, and then okay.
One thing so I like this glass these these these glasses very much. And then but also one one has to think of these glasses are come out of, how to say, causes and conditions and and actions and afflictive emotions. So they derive they derive from from from these. So they are in the nature of suffering. They are true sufferings.
And then and then once one go goes on to think that of the qualities of the good qualities of the glasses. Okay. What are the good qualities of the glasses? It helps me to to see better, but then there’s not not nothing else to it. So in glasses, we shouldn’t make it more than it is.
It’s just that. It’s just a tool. And then and and also in relation to it, in dependence on these glasses to which we are grasping so strongly, and then we we generate a lot of negativities when somebody, for example, when somebody goes to take your pair of glasses, and then you get angry at somebody, for example. And in order to achieve, to to obtain all those things that we are attached to, be be them the glasses or the pencil or anything, in order to obtain all those things that we attach to, we go we engage in a lot of, how to say, negative deeds that will bring only suffering in the future. And so this is the way we should think.
And then oh, this also, I forgot to mention in the beginning, the when when when you see the mind that is looking at the glass and is thinking, oh, I I like these glasses very much and so forth. And then one should should acknowledge that to be attachment, recognize that as attachment. And then from there on, goes to to the to the rest of the reasoning that I yeah. See it as a suffering and so forth and loss. This The important thing is to recognize the attachment, and then it will lose some of its power.
And then reflecting this way, he says, you you recognize it. Okay. When you see something that you like, you say, oh, I like this very much. And then Geshe-la says, this is attachment. Mhmm.
And then knowing this knowing from then on, he he went to explain. Then you think, oh, this arises from causes and conditions from from So this is, for example, this this this pencil. And then I went for a for example, let’s say, I went for a lot of hardships. Gala says, I went for a lot of hardships just to to buy this pencil. And then after I bought this pencil, if someone if someone get this pencil from me, and then I I will get angry with him, I will hurt, and then I will I will destroy a lot of merits virtuous deeds that I have accumulated.
And then be be beyond writing, there is there is nothing else to it. There’s nothing no other good quality to it. It’s just a tool for writing. So there’s no benefit really in getting attached to it, grasping it. This one?
Okay. Yes? Good. Yes? The point at which you decide to engage in that analysis though, there has to be a point where you decide to either succumb to the afflictive emotion Yeah.
Or engage in analysis about it. Is that not is that point being not free will? Is that something else? I’m not sure if I understood. Can you There’s a point where you either a choice to either engage in the inflicted emotion, to succumb to it, or to get angry, for example, or to engage in some analysis about it.
That point not free will or is it something else? So I I asked him I asked him He said he said he said Yeah. So I asked him I asked him I asked him I I explained. I explained to him, so once once attachment has has arisen arisen, then we we cannot think very clearly. Right?
So is there a time is there any special time when we should engage in investigation or in analysis? He said, no. There is no special time. I mean, as long as as it is before the arrival of of attachment, then there’s no special time. And before the arrival of attachment, you engage in the analysis, and then he goes, like, again to the example of the car and then how we we think of the car of as more than what it is, as just a a means of transport, and we get attached to it and so forth and grasp at it.
And then and then he and then he went he went on to say, but if if and then you see you see the the faults of the car and so forth, then you cut attachment to it. But then if you don’t have a car and then if you don’t have a car, you you would want to acquire a car, you will put all your efforts to it and so forth. Yes. So yes. And then if you don’t have a car, you you cannot go anywhere, and then you you will put your efforts to trying to get one one new car, and that’s not okay, he said.
It’s not it’s not okay not to have a car. Yes. That’s what he said. He’s joking. So, yeah, this There’s a point by where you have a choice.
It’s that choice, that moment of choice. You want to know about the free will. Is that what you want to know? Is there a point where you have a choice? Feels to me like there’s a point where you have a choice, and that feels to me like free will.
If I make the decision before the afflictive emotion takes hold, I think there’s a moment where there is a choice. So okay. To answer to answer your question, right, in terms of free will, maybe free will was was an unfortunate translation. Okay? Because the way the way Geshe-la used the word, one meaning a power or is a would be self powered or independent.
In some in some cases, it would mean free will also. But the way he used it is that when we are he said he said when we are over overpowered by it means that, he said, we we have less power than it. So that we do have power, but attachment sometimes has more power. Right? So it’s like there is there is some point where you can make a decision probably there.
And then but then Gerala went on went on to again to the car example. Mhmm. And he said, if you don’t have a car and then you want to acquire the car, but then you you see a car that you like and you really want to acquire that car, but then you generate a lot of attachment and grasping. And then you have to stop and you have to think of all the faults of the car, you know, how much how how expensive it is, you know, what’s the the real purpose of the car, you know, it’s it’s just to to transport you, and then maybe if if you have an accident, you can die and so forth. Then thinking of all these faults, after thinking of all these faults, then, okay, you can buy the car.
Then you’re gonna buy it for the use it really has. So so after after thinking of, after having investigated and analyzed all this this and seeing all these faults of the car, so after you after you have bought it, and then if if this if these faults by any chance come about, then you won’t experience much suffering out of it.