Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 81-minute Q&A, Ven Robina Courtin reveals how attachment distorts reality. When jealous, you’re convinced your boyfriend finds you not beautiful; when angry, that someone’s wronged you unfairly; when depressed, that you’re truly worthless. But attachment exaggerates—the same chocolate cake is divine when craving, disgusting when full. She maps this delusion through raw personal examples: boyfriend jealousy, a Mexican gangster prisoner practicing mindfulness, her chaotic childhood with seven siblings. She addresses racism, childhood conditioning, medication, panic attacks, and how to help others in crisis. She concludes with foundational breath-focused meditation instruction. For those willing to see how their own minds lie.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 04 E 2016 07 23.mp3
UUID: 6fb65f9a-ade3-4021-98f8-d2f2b81b1662
Teacher: Ven Robina Courtin
Collection: y Robina Courtin (Ven Robina Courtin)
Date: 2016-07-23
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 81.0 minutes
Words: ~13,992
You people, questions questions questions? Any old questions? Bring it all up. The afternoon, Jeez it’s good isn’t it? Yeah we have to have a second afternoon, jeez there’s still so much I’m wondering if you could speak on some of the particular antidote states of mind to things.
The antidote states of mind to anxiety No, maybe yeah, I don’t know, that’s boring. No? Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, okay, good, that’s a good point. Or we might apply in our everyday lives.
No, understand, good point, good point. Good point, good point. Absolutely, absolutely. Okay. This is a bit like the cognitive therapy business, know, it sounds kind of cute.
But let’s say look at jealousy. Jealousy is what? This pain, it’s like you’ve been stabbed isn’t it if your boyfriend looks at the wrong person. Would you agree? It’s like jealousy of the person at work, it’s like agony the physical feeling is like hell isn’t it?
In fact the physical feeling of all these emotions is like hell isn’t it? Unbearable, the physical feeling! So first of all that’s again the tip of the iceberg so what’s jealousy? Jealousy is you know, so what’s jealousy? So if you say okay let’s look at the conceptual story of these emotions what is jealousy saying?
What’s the words of jealousy? No no no that’s interpretation of it. What is it saying? Has anybody been jealous of their boyfriend you thought they were cheating on you? Looking at somebody else that kind of jealousy?
No you’re not saying that that’s an interpretation of it afterwards. What are you saying at the time when you’re freaking out? What do you say to your boyfriend? What are the words jealousy says when you have the fight with your boyfriend about it? What are you saying?
I’m angry. Come on! You did look at her, I saw you, you did, I know you did, it’s completely is it not that kind of thing? It’s accusing, it’s based on anger, you completely freaking out and you can interpret that it’s saying that you’re a creep isn’t it? So underneath that is that you’re not that you’re not that he is saying you’re not beautiful isn’t it or something?
It’s like it’s like your knife in your heart isn’t it? That you’re not enough. Is that not true? Jealousy? So then when you analyse those words you should it’s really that’s why it’s really good to keep journals to say the words of that emotion.
So okay what’s anger saying when you’re really angry? Give me a description tell me what a little child who’s angry tell me the words they’re saying like I’ve just run to mummy mummy because Johnny did something what am I saying to mummy? Say the words of anger. It’s not fair. Not fair?
Yeah what else come on! Johnny did say this. How dare you do that, it is not fair, I did not do that, it’s not my fault! Is that not anger? You’re wrong, I’m not, I don’t deserve it, don’t we say that?
Are you people not in touch with your bloody emotions? Are they not concepts? And do we not believe them one million percent as the truth? Now look at low self esteem: Robina you’re really a nice person I am not! This is not true!
When you really feel like you’re nobody you’re hopeless, you’re a disaster you know because the boyfriend has left you and it’s like you’re using it to twist this knife like you’re evil so even that alone if you analyse because Fred left me Fred is saying Robina is ugly and now I’ve chosen Mary isn’t it? That’s what he’s doing isn’t it? Meaning you’re no longer beautiful I prefer Mary is that not like torture? It’s beyond torture So the point is we believe I must be that, don’t we? We believe it’s a hundred percent true that I have to be a creep.
Is this not true? Is this not true? We believe it, don’t we? In other words, if you had you could argue if let’s say you’ve done the work and less attached and less angry and less jealous and have really become this marvellous person, really content, you would be sad if Fred left you. You would be.
It would be shattering in the beginning. But it wouldn’t take long to heal yourself because you know this is too shocking now you know it’s not personal. Of course it’s personal! But it’s sort of not personal. You know it’s got nothing to do with YOU, YOU, how YOU are, YOU are who YOU are!
Because this is the point about the deepest attachment of all I am going to get to your point, I promise. I’m getting there. So this is where if we understand the deepest craving, the deepest neediness, the deepest attachment is for other people to say I’m a nice person. And why would I crave that? Because I don’t believe it’s true!
You understand my point? This is the deepest attachment to hear praise and to be a good girl. And everything we’re doing, if we really start to look at our minds, we’re manipulating every single second our behavior and our words to adjust them to get people to think we’re being a good girl. We can’t stand the pain when someone misinterprets us, when someone thinks we’re lying, when someone doesn’t believe our words, when someone doesn’t like us. It is like knife in the heart.
What does that say about how we think about ourselves? It’s obvious that I am nothing unless you say I’m nice. I mean that’s schizophrenic. I’ve joined the universe here. This is the deepest attachment.
You’ve got to analyse why. You know, look at loneliness. I’ve got no one to share with. I’ve got no one to tell my thoughts to. I’ve got no one to to do things with.
Well, I might be sounding weird, but you gotta ask, we gotta ask ourselves, What is it about my thoughts that are not valid until you hear them? And that’s kind of weird isn’t it? That’s kind of weird. If my thoughts are so terrible why the hell would I want to share them with you in the first place? But this is showing the depth of this unhappiness and neediness that I’m not good enough and this is the nature of ego, the irony of ego is this.
Ego is not some big fancy big thing. Ego is self pity. I’m not being horrible, as I would call it, self pity me. And this really borders bigger point. When we walk we kind of get born as a half a person.
This neurotic sense of an I which then craves something it feels it’s missing, then gets angry when it doesn’t get it and jealous when someone else gets it and then depressed when blah blah blah. There are all these symptoms of this injured, unhappy, we should be broken hearted for ourselves, not guilty. So the antidotes. You can’t find the antidote until you hear the problem. If you can’t hear what jealousy is saying how can you say the opposite words?
If you can’t hear what anger is saying how can you say the opposite words? Do you see? Yes Now it sounds boring so when I’m angry with Fred well one of the antidotes is to, you know, if I’m saying what’s your name? Jesse Who? Jesse Oh that’s right, you’re Jesse.
That’s why I think Jesse’s a creep because he left me for a younger version. Like I’ve got to get over the pain first, but when I’m calming down about it and I’m learning to let go and you know and forgive, then what I’ve got to do because right now, okay when I had Jesse, he was my boyfriend and he was divine like sliced bread wasn’t he? Like God incarnate. Jesse’s perfect, Jesse’s divine because why? Because Jesse’s looking at me with lovey eyes isn’t he?
He’s kind of looking at me like I’m the Queen of England too. So of course he’s divine. That means he’s telling me I’m a wonderful person and this is what the bliss is having someone say you’re beautiful Robina, this is a bliss I think sex is almost second to that. It’s being praised and someone looking at it with dazzling eyes and now shattered, devastated. I remember the pain.
Now he’s looking at someone else. It’s beyond bearing. So when I calm down and try to get over it, you know, then one of the antidotes is tiny but it’s massive. But I’m realizing that now the view I have of Jesse is ugly. Before he was divine, which is attachment describing beautiful, he’s this, he’s that, he’s the best thing ever, and now he’s ugly, he’s horrible, he’s mean, he did this to me.
One of the things how you argue with these views Buddha says all these neuroses, one of the key characteristics is that they are exaggerations. And that’s why you’ve got to understand how they’re conceptual stories. Beneath the pain they’re a conceptual story. When attachment describes Jesse, when I’m in love with him, he’s gorgeous, he’s divine, he’s beautiful, he’s compassionate, he’s kind, he listens to me, he looks after me, he’s the best person I’ve ever met, he’s my soul mate, are they not the words we are familiar with when you’re in love with somebody? So they are a description of Jesse.
Look at the description of chocolate cake. It is oh this incredible delicious you can’t believe it’s divine cake and that you understand? Now look at the description of chocolate cake when you’re stuffed full after the fourth piece. It’s the same cake. This is using logic to argue with these misconceptions.
It sounds kind of ridiculous but it’s so profound. Buddha says the delusions are completely demented they’re like drama queens that exaggerate everything. But we’re so caught up in the story we don’t even know it’s an exaggeration we don’t even know it’s a story. We believe the cake is what I’m seeing. But then four pieces later look at it again please.
Do some logic here. What does it look like now? Ugh disgusting. Looks repulsive doesn’t it? To your eyes.
Why? Because your attachment has now began the story and now with too many pieces and you’re stuffed and feeling one of you ought to vomit. Your eyes now are making you’re thinking the cake looks disgusting now. It’s the same with Jesse. In the beginning when he was doing everything I wanted he was fulfilling my attachment’s needs, making me utterly blissful, satisfying my neediness, satisfying my craving.
By the way, this doesn’t mean I didn’t have love for him and compassion and kindness and generosity. We’re not discussing the virtues here. They all play a role in our relationship, there’s no question. I did love him, I did want him to be happy, I was compassionate, I was being kind, I was patient, all those things are there. We’re looking nakedly at the delusions and how they lie and leave us up garden paths.
That’s the analysis we have to do. Be precise. So attachment exaggerated his deliciousness. And so when you’ve got only the attachments running the show you’re as blind as a bat. You can’t see the same cake, the same cake that makes you vomit is the cake that makes you happy you better know which is the true story here.
But when you’re caught up in the attacker of the cake we don’t want to know about the vomit because you remember it yesterday but you don’t want to know about it, sucked into the same feeling today wow it’s going to make me happy again and you fall into the same trap and shove it in the same mouth and get the same indigestion every day but you forget, we forget, we forget because we’re junkies. Attachment is a junkie, same with Jessie. So Jessie when you’re all excited like Nicole Kidman, always quote Nicole, Poor Nicole, I love her. But I read an interview twenty years ago at Vanity Fair, fifteen years ago when she was still with Tom Cruise, you know? And she said at the end of the interview We will be together until we’re eighty.
I’m not being mean about it. We understand this. This is attachment talking. I’m going to be with Jesse forever. Why?
Because now I’ve got Jesse, now we are together and I’m in bliss and he’s in bliss, everything is perfect. This is the problem, this is the other mistake Buddha says we then impose upon that, we then make it permanent. Because attachment can’t stand the thought of it changing. Literally we can’t stand the thought of never having Jesse, so we make it permanent. And then she said wisely, the next sentence I remember, Of course if we won’t be together till we’re eighty, I will be devastated.
And of course she was when he left her for Penelope Cruz! Read all the papers. She was shattered, you know, until her mother said get up and carry on your life and then she let what’s his name? And now she’s happy again. What’s his name?
Keith, that’s right. And he’s got two daughters, Sunday and Faith. What’s going on here? Happy New Year, I’m just getting for the next question. But I’d just like to ask people if they I know there are some people who have been waiting for a long time to ask questions.
Have they? Okay. Belize, if you could be quite brave and put your hands right up. See, nobody. They’re all going down.
Okay, one more. Coming. But I wasn’t ready, Janet. She’s getting nervous. Haven’t got to his answer yet.
Can I just get to his answer first? Then you have yours. I’m nearly there I promise. So the key point I’m making here, the summary of this is the Buddha’s view we look at the neuroses in isolation. We’re going to see how they’re distorted, they exaggerate, they’re self loathing, they’re necessarily deluded, they’re necessarily fear based this was very fascinating and they’re not an accurate assessment of yourself or others.
So then the antidote is once you’ve identified what the story is of jealousy, what the story of low self esteem is, what the story of depression is, the cognitive story, then you can argue with it. And it sounds like a joke to argue, well I really am a nice person. It doesn’t work initially does it? Because you believe you’re not a nice person but you’ve got to start somewhere. So with Jesse, once I’ve calmed down and healed a bit of the hurt then I’ve got to be able to say well Jesse’s really an okay person after all.
I remember his good qualities they haven’t changed just because he’s left me. So you start to use logic to argue with the irrational distorted view. This is not a joke. It doesn’t work in the beginning but it’s slowly slowly and then before you know it you start to see Jesse as a nice person again. It’s like a miracle.
That’s how you apply the antidotes. This is massive. So when a person dares to say you’re really a good person, Robina, don’t you dare insult them by saying I am not. Oh am I really? What a relief to hear.
You have the humility to listen and actually dare to think maybe I’m okay, maybe there’s something that I’m not seeing. Having this miracle like depression is self loathing, it’s completely primordial, deep, hopeless, depressed, inert nothingness. Everything is nothing, everything is worthless. It seems like a joke to say, start arguing with it. But that’s one of the techniques.
But it’s not going magically change overnight, you know? Go more to that in a minute, so go on. How much emphasis do you put on our attachment relationships to our primary carers when we’re children, like our relationships with our parents, if you’re in a toxic sort of relationship with your primary carer. What do mean, who’s your primary carer? Your parents.
Much say parents? When’s your primary carer? Well, because attachments You say your mum? Yeah, well how much significance would you give to that? If it’s a toxic relationship So what did you mean by that?
There’s so many things in what you’re saying, it’s wonderful. Can you unpack it all please? Okay, so I come from a background where I study attachment between children and their parents. Yeah, but that’s a different attachment. That’s the Western view of bonding and that kind of thing.
Can give a word here, Okay, If I look at a child who is already looking very, very anxious and she might only be one or two because of her relationship with her parents Why do you assume it’s her relationship with her parents? Well, it’s an assumption that I’m making. Already Buddha would argue with that, so let’s just say can you ask me the question then without too many assumptions? Just to see what the Buddha might say, even just intellectually on this So that baby that’s born, those first couple of years of its experiences, how significant is that in terms of how we become as adults? If I’m an anxious adult and my relationship with my parent created some of that anxiety when I was one or two, how significant is that?
Okay let’s just try and take the Buddhist view of this and analyse. What I’m trying to do here I’m not trying to negate anything you’re saying but it’s a different interpretation isn’t it? So there’s a child who’s born to a mummy and can you describe the mummy to me please? Describe the mummy to me, what are her qualities? Have to be able There’s an experiment where there’s a baby who ‘s looking at her mother and that relationship between the mother and the child is affirming to the baby and the baby feels some sense of security and bonding and safety.
Then the mum looks away from the child and within a few minutes that child’s starting to get extremely anxious. Good, perfect, thank you. I’ll tell you what that is good to Buddha. That is, in the child, that is, is this craving to be approved of. It’s a neurosis.
And it sounds too shocking in the West because we don’t think children have neurosis, we think mothers make them neurotic. So you could argue equally, and I wonder if some other experiments might prove this, but that a child who’s born let’s say in Buddhist view, a person who’s born with highly evolved realizations from practicing a spiritual path in a past life. Can you with me here? They come into this life with very little attachment. They’re enormously blissful.
They’re very compassionate. They’re very kind. They’re very wise. You could argue that child would have compassion for their mother, wouldn’t have too much neediness, but we don’t state that in the West. But in general, of course it’s a truth, that obviously when you’re tired you’re learning new things, aren’t you?
But the Buddhist point is you come programmed with a whole bunch of stuff in there already. So you know, Hitler was a baby once. He would have come with his own neuroses. You know, I remember you read tiny children who torture creatures, who turn to be psychos. You have tiny children who have, you know, intense attachment to sexual things and become pedophiles.
Their mother didn’t make them that, they came with that stuff. So that if you factor in the child comes with their own stuff plus the mother, it’s a very different dynamic, you know? But the Western view doesn’t have that. So it’s really sort of it’s only one side we’re looking at. So in other words, I remember a prisoner I know, happened to be black, American, who’s written stories and things about his childhood.
He’s a typical junky Los Angeles mother. A junky, disaster! And he wrote stories about he was sitting out at the table while the boyfriend was beating the mother up and the mother was beating up to somebody else. And all you could tell was this little boy, this little boy, he had this love for his mother. He was six’five’four worried about his mother, trying to think how can I protect Mummy?
She was a disastrous mother, an absolute disaster. He doesn’t have any indication of that. He loves his Mummy, he forgives his Mummy, he wishes he could have taken better care of his Mummy, he wasn’t feeling resentful because Mummy didn’t take care of him. Another child could have the best mother in the world but they’ve got a bottomless pit of neediness and they’re just ridiculous, they’re going to blame their mother forevermore! So you can’t talk about it without factoring in the person, what they brought into this life.
But the Western model doesn’t have that one, so it’s for me very one-sided. Are you communicating with me? Yes. It’s an interesting approach. Know?
That’s all, I want to say that. But nevertheless, of course it’s crucial! Mothers play an incredible role. My mother played a massive role in my upbringing. Of course she did.
Absolutely every single thing my mother did played a role. But in the end when you realize it’s a tennis match between two people, and this is a bit shocking for the West, that I come with my own stuff and I’m playing a role in that tennis match, that I’m an equal participant in it, even though I’m little. I remember vividly as a child I knew I could have my mother around my little finger, I could manipulate my mother. I knew that even at three years old, I knew that. And you see that with some children, their mother’s a sucker because she’s so attached to this little ridiculous kid and you can see this little kid manipulating mummy like crazy, we all know that!
Do you understand my point? Because the kids got their own stuff, you know? So understanding that, very different dynamic. But of course the mother plays a role and the nurturing and the loving and the constant and the discipline. I know with my mother very clearly she was kind of like there was a chaotic family, seven children, was craziness, my father alcoholic, blah blah, you know?
And her up and down emotions. You could see one day she’d be disciplined with me, the next day because she’s depressed, her husband, she’d be undisciplining. And I knew as a child I was craving something to go up against, but it was never there. She was weak one day, strong the next, no wonder we’re all nuts, you know? But I knew that I had to look at my ability, my anger and I could manipulate that, I knew that as a kid.
Do you understand? Lots of things but of course I was yearning for my mother to be solid as a rock and be there every day and be consistent and adored it when she was. That is a mummy’s role, but you know we all come into this world we’re all nuts aren’t we? So we have to forgive our mummies later, isn’t it? As a kid, no.
I mean even something for example I can see plainly and this is where the mind is the main one but the conditions are huge. We had so many kids in our family, my mother and father had so many babies so quickly we didn’t have enough beds, know, they couldn’t keep up with making the money. So there was always chaos, seven of us. I mean, and I was a bully, I was angry and a bully, I put pillows on my asthmatic sisters because I couldn’t sleep, you know? I mean I understand it, being a volatile little girl, because it was too difficult for little children to deal with this nightmare every single day, too much volatility, too much energy flying around.
So when I was naughty, when I was about thirteen and trying to, you know, stealing my mother’s high heels and lippy and trying to look like a widgy, you know, a widgy, and then trying to seduce Tony King-Carter the Greengrocer’s son, Mummy got nervous and I was thirteen, she sent me to live at school, was at the convent, she got me to live there. Well overnight I became a saint because suddenly the condition brought out the best in me, but that condition brought out the worst in me not blaming the conditions but when you notice that conditions do play a role it’s like an alcoholic. If you’re an alcoholic no one is going to ask you to give up attachment to alcohol while still digging alcohol. Move the bloody object away, be intelligent you know. You know forty percent of all women on earth you know who murders them don’t you?
Who get murdered. You know who murders them? The bloke in the same bed. Well if they had enough common sense and we had enough self respect, we had enough you know self respect and awareness of our mind you would have left that idiot man well before he murdered you. But we’re all sitting there like you needy little vampires trying to bleed each other to death.
So he’s neurotic and angry, you’re neurotic and angry, of course you’re going to kill each other one or the other you know. If we had any common sense we would get the hell out of the way of a danger you know. We’ve got no common sense, no awareness of ourselves, oh he’s going to make me happy. Oh nightmare you know. Anybody else?
We got the essence of it, didn’t we? Thank you. But that word ‘attachment’ is a different word. That means ‘bonding’ how perfect. Where are we?
You please elaborate on conditions and like collective suffering, collective aversion and attachment and how that you know how conditions kind of I’m thinking specifically about things like racism you know, Donald Trump and his many followers that sort of thing. Can you just discuss a little bit if it’s okay how we can help and understand how those conditions manifest. How they manifest is you’re born with certain tendencies, put it that way, so forget that one. But the way it is now, my feeling is that we look at how mean Donald Trump wouldn’t go anywhere if there weren’t people who agreed with him, would they? He’s just expressing people’s so that means he’s just pointing out if nobody thought how he thought he would have disappeared after the first republican.
He would have been out the door, isn’t it? So it’s really clear that he’s expressing certain people’s thoughts. Now I remember and that’s where tendency is in the mind. So I remember reading this nineteen year old white supremacist in America when he first read Hitler. Wow, I felt like I’d come home, met everything he said was true, this is everything I felt.
So we’ve got to recognize as the Buddhist view, we come into this world, you know, with these certain viewpoints. So it’s clear, I read an in-depth interview recently with Donald Trump’s fans. And it was just shocking to hear how their distorted views are what’s true. Shocking distorted views, their racist views shocking! So distorted, untrue, not true distorted, exaggerated, you know?
So there’s tendencies in a person’s mind. So if you analyse what Trump attracts, it’s called racism, it’s a view that you don’t like strangers. I mean, is this not pretty fundamental in all of us? It’s very fundamental, We always put all our groups into my people and your people. This is called aversion and attachment.
So you attach to your people depending on how you interpret them. If it’s white people, then you’re attached to white people. Anybody who’s not white or the wrong language, it’s very instinctive in all of us. I mean, everybody’s got this. We’ve got enemies, friends, and strangers.
This primordial thing, you know how they talk in the Buddhist teachings, when the strong attachment, you label certain people to fit in your mob. And that means anybody outside that mob is called an enemy or indeed mostly the strangers. Ninety nine percent of strangers, we couldn’t care less about them. So that’s called racism. It’s called, you know, whatever words you want, isn’t it?
Certain people who speak a certain language, it might be oh, it’s like race, but it’s also nationality, isn’t it? Soon as a person’s a foreigner, they’re a bloody immigrant, isn’t it? With a stupid Greek accent. That’s called racism, it’s called aversion, it’s called friends and enemies, isn’t it? Very primordial in all of us.
Monkeys have it, dogs have it, ants have it. So if it’s very strong then you’re going to have this really distorted belief that you’re right. And that’s why I remember Lama Zopa saying, most people on this earth have absolutely no idea that what goes on in their mind plays any role at all, you know? So a person with very strong views of I’m right and you’re wrong, that’s what that is, isn’t it? And you can see it’s very instinctive in all of us, it’s got having aversion for something that’s different from you.
And there’s a bunch of people like that, boom, you have a group, you have a mob, don’t you? And how would you I’m guessing you and I don’t know about I’m guessing you’re gonna say that the change starts from within. Is there anything else that you would suggest can be done to helping you know, I guess reduce collective suffering? Well it’s Okay, so what we’re describing here, let’s just say Trump, let’s say Trump’s friends, Trump’s fans, let’s say some of them who might be racist, okay, who are racist, let’s say they’re racist. There’s a group of people who are racist.
So to change so what do you mean by change is you mean them to change? Because change isn’t something in the sky, change means people’s minds doesn’t it? So these are the people you’re talking about changing, is that correct? Is that what you’re meaning? Or to reduce the likelihood they would be susceptible to You’re talking about actual human beings, aren’t you?
Yes. And these are Trump fans, is that what you’re saying? Yes. That means you’ve to get to their ears, isn’t it? You’ve to have them hear your words, And then you’ve got to say words that they want to hear.
Excuse me, have you tried doing that before? I don’t think it’s going to work, baby. I remember reading in Sydney a few days ago, had to whip off to Sydney last Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Wednesday, just for the night. I had a conference in a Sydney school, and it was a wonderful conference. Was a Muslim, a Jew, a rabbi, me, and a Catholic and an Anglican.
And it was about interfaith business. And the Muslim, Susan, I think she’s well known, I told you she’s that wife of that what’s this guy, Malouf? What’s his name? Walid. Walid, that man, his wife, Susan, she’s a something, alright?
Name is Doctor Susan Carland. Thank you very much. Anyway, she was gorgeous. So she was telling her experience of a Muslim in Australia, people always say, Why don’t you good Muslims criticize the bad Muslims? And she said, she almost burst into tears, was so intense.
She said, I can’t even describe to you what the good Muslims in the world have been doing. She said, even there’s a seventy two page document outlining all the things in the Koran that go against the bad things. It is translated into forty seven different languages and published around the world in millions of copies and still no one hears. So listen: compassion is the wish to make things better, but without wisdom you can’t do anything. So that means you’ve got to have an ear that is prepared to listen.
So clearly she’s beating up against they’re bashing their heads against brick walls. If people aren’t prepared to listen, you can do nothing except keep trying. So I mentioned there, I said look at the Dalai Lama, sixty, sixty five years, he hasn’t stopped trying to present the Tibetan Buddhist view to the Chinese. But their ears are deaf and have been for sixty five years. No matter what he says, trying politically, socially, religiously, spiritually, every possible method, diplomatically, their ears are closed.
But he doesn’t give up. He’s not bashing his head against the wall, doesn’t get upset, doesn’t get frustrated, he keeps presenting, keeps presenting. One day, maybe something will change. It’s not that easy darling. So we’ve to have a lot of courage in the face of idiocy and ignorance and sometimes it’s just the way the world is and history comes.
As everybody said no one could believe Hitler would take over, no one could believe that Mr Trump will become the President of the United States. Don’t hold your breath, you don’t know. So this is the suffering of the world, isn’t it? And this is where we’ve to have compassion for them, for them, and then the wisdom to be patient and never give up using methods, to never give up, never give up, never give up being reasonable and strong and clear, Never give up. Thank you, that’s very And not be scared of it.
Don’t be scared of it ever and that’s part of our problem we can’t that freaks us out. Thank you. Do you understand? Hi. I’m just wondering why depression and anxiety seem to be an affliction just of the West.
No. They’re not. Who says that? I’ve I’ve read I think it’s naive to think that. Okay, let’s just use the Buddha’s view again, if this way I’m describing the mind in this room is completely from Buddha’s view, then he’s talking not even just about humans, he’s talking about all beings, he’s talking about animals as well.
Excuse me, cats and dogs get depressed, they get anxious. This model, this is shocking to us in the West, this model refers to all sentient beings. Having ignorance, the root delusion that gives rise to attachment and neediness and craving, that gives rise to anger when it doesn’t get what it wants, that gives rise to jealousy, depression, fears, anxiety. Look at animals! Some animals are completely anxious, completely wrong.
Dogs are so anxious they have a panic attack every time the gate squeaks. Some are depressed, I mean look at them! It’s not even the West, for God’s sake! Maybe it’s more prevalent here, because we’ve got more attachment, more neurosis, more vivid conditions, more things to trigger delusions, you know? More objects, more things, more delicious things, and more up and down, and more social media, more stuff out there that triggers it more easily maybe.
But for me it has to be universal. Do you think drugs and psychs and all of that are going to Drugs? You mean medical drugs? Medical drugs are going you know, are they gonna help? Think anything can help cut I mean, okay, you go to your Tibetan doctor and she will feel your pulses, okay, they’ve got a different model there, they talk about the subtle physical energies or the wind energies causing through this subtle nervous system, it’s the same as the yoga method, it’s the Tibetan medical system.
She will feel your pulses, will feel an imbalance of certain wind energies that have been polluted by your attachment energy, which is attachment energy is what causes anxiety. It’s all the balls of the air, too many fingers, expecting this and wanting that and doing this and unable to stop, never stopping, blah blah blah blah, that’s anxiety energy. Right? So she feels the wind energies that have been polluted by that. So she will give you some herbal medicine that will calm down the wind energies which will impact upon your mind.
Well you go to your doctor here, get your serotonin that calms down the physical which impacts upon you whatever it is, you know? So some of them we can see have terrible side effects, so we’ve just got to use our common sense. Nothing wrong, but the key one is that you know, we can get to the root of it. So take your pills, take your drugs, no problem. But then that’ll give you the space to now work on the mind and solve it.
So if you won’t have drugs, take your drugs, I’m happy! Do understand? But be intelligent and be in charge of it, know what works and what doesn’t, and then that’ll give you the space to now get into being your own therapist, and have the courage to face it and accept it. And the fact is also another point here, think this is the biggest point. Again, I’ve said it before: the more we understand that attachment is a driving force primordially beneath everything else is a junkie that can only bear the nice things.
So when it gets thwarted and terrible things happen you lose your job, you get whatever happens, a million things every day, it builds up that becomes either aversion, an anger or depression. They’re both coming from the same state of mind, aversion. It becomes anger or depression. That’s it. Two options: out or in.
So, when we understand that theoretically, and we’re feeling caught up in the misery of it, whichever one it is, then the trouble is we can’t, you know, we can’t, not just I can’t stand the fact that Jesse left me, but I can’t stand the pain. It’s not just that I’m overweight until I get depressed or lost my job, it’s I can’t stand the pain. So then when we can have the courage to know it isn’t defining me, it isn’t who I really am, it is true, I’m feeling hopeless right now but it’s not the whole story. That gives such bravery in the face of it and that energizes then, you know, we get more flexible and so we know there is light at the end of the tunnel. In other words, it’s really true, it’s bad not being despairing because he left me but why be extra miserable?
It’s bad not being angry, why feel also guilty about it? It’s bad not being depressed, why feel depressed about being depressed? And we keep adding the extra pieces. So what I’m saying is one of the things is to have the courage to know this isn’t who I really am, it is true, but it’s not at the core of my being. This is the one that for me gives the courage to practice.
It’s not the courage to keep going back to the gym and have the pain because you know you’re working on it. So drugs, go for it if help you. So that you can now start dealing with it and have the courage to look inside and own it. That’s what gives courage, that’s what gives optimism is my opinion. Darling, here.
Me a microphone. Who else? Where? Yes sweetheart. I just wondered if you could talk a little bit about ego and how we can observe our own ego, which will help us with our negative and our angry thoughts.
I need to know what you mean when you say ego. What do you mean by that? I mean observing ourselves and how we respond to other people and how we can look at their actions in a different way. Look at their actions in a way so that we’re not responding with anger all the time. So what we’re talking about here, particular how to interpret other people’s things and not take it personally, as we would say it.
To do with our own ego, how we observe our ego we can say we can look more at that it’s not an intentional thing it’s about them it’s always about us because we always think everything’s about us. No, I understand your point here. So if I’m really attached to Jesse and I get really jealous if I notice even the inkling of him not looking at me twenty four hours a day isn’t it? Because we’re so insecure right? Is this not true?
Then obviously I’m interpreting his actions in a different way aren’t I? Or let’s say he’s late coming home and already the last twenty minutes I’ve completely, practically want to kill myself because I’m now convinced he’s in bed with someone else, and the story is running rampant, I mean this is an extreme example, and he comes out in the door and then out comes the fight exploding and crying isn’t it? And it’s going to take several hours of discussion and then I might calm down and maybe trust that he’s telling the truth but it’s very hard isn’t it? I mean we recognize don’t we? So this is hard work darling.
It depends, it’s really hard work because naturally this is the thing they say in Buddhist psychology, most fascinating. They say the way the world out there appears back to us through this is how they say it literally in the aspect of whatever’s in my mind. So if I’ve got neediness in my mind, strong craving, strong attachment, I’m literally going to interpret the entire world, the people and the contents in terms of whether it satisfies me or not. Now look at a person who’s got masses of attachment to sex, a boy let’s say, the typical example, you know you boys, you know? You understand my point?
A boy who’s really attached to sex and he likes sex with girls. It’s obvious the only way he sees female people is in terms of whether they satisfy his desire. So the fat ugly ones he’ll think they’re disgusting you know, and you know yourself as a girl. I mean I remember as a girl as you get older you just don’t get seen anymore by those same boys because you’re now an ugly aversion object aren’t you? So it’s obvious we’re all the same if you’re really attached to food we all are mostly every bit of food you see is interpreted according to whether it satisfies your attachment.
It’s obvious! And the more attached you are the more upset you’ll get when the wrong food comes. So how can we change that? Well Jesus mother of God darling. I’m a good cat.
What do think we’ve been talking about the last forty seven hours? Knowing your own mind, seeing it, seeing it darling, seeing it, You mean like telling yourself? No, got to see your mind, those thoughts first. But once you recognise them, then don’t hold your breath, that’s advanced. That’s ninety nine percent of the battle.
Part of the problem is we don’t Okay, delusions are so instinctive, it’s like a joke to say that my attachment has made up delicious cake. It seems like a joke, when it’s completely primordial, completely instinctive, and even as you’re saying I’m on a diet and I won’t eat extra pieces, you’re watching your other hand put the cake in the mouth. Because these habits are so deep. When we understand that, we really have respect for ourselves. There’s such deep habits that it’s almost beyond conceptual.
So being aware of that, you protect yourself by keeping away from cake at the first level. Then when you do meet the cake, you try to observe how attachment is making it up. I try to observe how my jealousy is interpreting him. But that’s really hard, darling, when we’re so caught up spontaneously in these emotions. So the very first level of practice in Buddhism, junior school level, is to keep away from the object.
If I can’t stand this amount of jealousy and pain, it’s not blaming him, I ought to leave him. Because look at people, they kill each other and go mad. As long as I keep sinking it’s his fault, I can never look at my mind. So if my jealousy is that bad I should give up the relationship because I’ve got to start protecting myself. But we don’t have that amount of self respect because we don’t think there’s a view in the mind.
So if we can begin to know it’s a view and you do your little bit of practice every morning and you know you’re going get to work and fall into the same traps yet again you start to try and program yourself I’m going to be really watching it like a hawk and I won’t fall into that trap when that guy looks at me yet again in that particular way. I’ll try and recognize my thoughts. That’s the job! So even doing a little bit of five minutes of watching your breath every morning, what you’re doing is you’re stepping out of your head for five minutes and you’re focusing. So you’re starting to notice this stuff, so you decide I’m going watch my mind like a hawk today.
And when you’re driving, instead of when the car jumps in front of you, you smash and kill and shout. You’re noticing your thoughts in here as well as the car, so you bring to bear this skill of observing your thoughts. And it’s really enormous, it’s a long term job. But this is awareness of what you’re thinking and then trying to gradually not believe in the story. Can you practise telling yourself a different story?
Give an example. I’m really bad with road rage, I get really angry when someone pulls in front of me because I’m an emergency nurse and I see car accidents and the result of that. I get really angry with dangerous drivers. But then instead of when I feel myself getting angry, I’ll say to myself, well maybe that person’s in a hurry to go to the hospital, maybe they’re Okay, hear what they’re saying. Okay, let’s do advanced.
Let’s keep it more simple. Part of your thing is you just gave yourself away that you’re an emergency nurse so you probably justify yourself for getting angry because you’ve seen the damage that bad drivers do, but that’s a story you’ve got in your mind, and so maybe the very first level of practice, maybe before you start interpreting someone else’s actions, which is compassion, maybe is to even this one is to try and just see how anger is the response when your attachment doesn’t get what it wants. Your neediness for things to be perfect, neediness for the traffic to be perfect, that’s more primordial than saying he maybe has a good reason. That’s compassion. But look at the fundamental energy of our attachment.
We say Oh I’m angry because I’m nurse and we often justify that kind of anger because it sounds like good anger. But the anger itself which is explosive and uncontrolled is simply the response when your attachment doesn’t get what it wants. It’s very primordial for all of us. So when you see that, you’ll see there’s no benefit in you being angry. You can go Oh my god, that crazy guy, he just doesn’t know what he’s doing, and you can have compassion for him and he’s an idiot, but it’ll be compassion.
That comes second. Look at the pain of the anger and how it distorts you. But it’s fundamentally our own needs not being met is why we get angry. This is very fundamental. You understand?
And then it gives you a chance to be compassionate. I remember Martin Luther King said It’s alright to find fault. There is racism, there is this, there You’ve got to say that, don’t you? It is outrageous. But then you say, What can I do to help?
And that’s compassion. Not How dare that be that way? Oh, this is monstrous! We lose the plot when we do that. But it’s very hard to see that because we feel very justified sometimes.
Do you understand? And the fact is when you’re angry you lose the plot. You’ve lost the plot and then the person looks ugly and you can’t stand them and then it all sets up all this rubbish. It’s quite subtle. And then you can afford to have compassion after that.
Do you understand? Yes, thank you. Do you understand? Thank you so much. Hello.
How are you? I’m having enjoyed myself. Cool. So am I. Am I.
That feels good. Yeah. I’ve really enjoyed this. It’s really like I’ll just need I’ll ask this question, but I I’m doing this journey where I’m at at the moment. I’m actually doing it.
I’m finding it hard, but what you’re saying is that with the breathing and the mindfulness and getting outside of my thoughts, which is what I’m doing at moment. Didn’t say that. What do mean by that? I have anxiety and depression. With my mindfulness I actually acknowledge my thoughts.
I sit with my thoughts. I don’t let it go away. I sit with it and acknowledge it. Then I practice my breathing. I do a lot of mindfulness.
I basically do visually feel, see, hear. When I’m sitting on the bus, when I’m feeling anxious I’ll just feel my body and feel my bottom on the seat and same with the eyes and all that. The problem thank you. The problem that I do have, though, is because I’ve got an addiction, an alcohol addiction, which I’m dealing with at the moment, and that’s my biggest fear, biggest problem. I’ve actually wanting to have because it’s no good for my depression, wanting to have that drink.
That’s right. And I’m practising my mindfulness. I’m even going to the point of the higher power, which is Whatever works in your mind, that’s good. It’s really what I’m finding Is there a question? There is a question.
The is about the depression and the anxiety. When you were saying about the how you’re not born with it. Like, is that true? Are you born with I didn’t say that. Oh, no.
Depression. You are it. Are with it. Whatever they are, darling. I mean, I’ve okay.
I’m just taking the Buddha’s view as the mind, Yeah. Yeah. It’s consciousness with depression, love, being good at music, wanting this, all your qualities, your tendencies, all your characteristics. The Buddha would say they are in your consciousness and did not come from mummy and deity, and your program would be from the first second of conception from having done them before. All our personality shape and structure, whether we want to kill or lie or jump on little girls or be compassionate or play music.
So it’s come from somewhere else. Not just from your previous moments of your consciousness, if you can take that as a concept. Before you’re even born, really. Your consciousness goes back to getting used. Buddha says that.
I know you said that before. It’s just that concept. Let’s take that as a view. So what’s that? The point from that for you, though, is what?
Just like the alcoholism. It’s attachment. Alcoholism an attachment. No, not an attachment. Attachment is an energy in us that is never satisfied, who will then look for a certain object, could be handbags, could be a thin body, could be alcohol, could be boys, could be killing people.
Attachment is an energy in us which is dissatisfaction, which is always craving something. So alcoholism is a classic example of attachment isn’t it? And alcohol is a pretty intense You’ve got to eat a lot more cake to kill yourself before you drink alcohol. So what to help me through that? Do I just do what I’m doing, my mindfulness?
No, you’re being aware of your mind, you’re seeing the causes of your suffering, you’re seeing this, you’re owning it, you’re doing your best, you’re acknowledging this is not the only part of you, you’re using discipline every day, that’s the key, using discipline every day to observe it, to be aware, to have self respect, to not follow these cravings which is going to eventually heal you. You just keep doing it darling, you’re doing beautifully in my opinion. Use every tool you can have. Is Buddha what he looks like? There’s also pictures of This is the monk, this is the person two and a half thousand years ago who came out of that amazing tradition.
The monk is Buddha. The Dalai Lama is a human being these days who’s the head of the Tibetan Buddha is the god? They don’t use the word god anymore Buddha’s not a god, he doesn’t talk about a creator. He’s this being has developed everything we’re saying in this room is what the Buddha says that we can develop this marvellous potential which is innate within us of goodness and clarity and wisdom and rid the mind of all the rubbish. That’s the same finding.
Think I like him better than the That’s up to you. It’s hard to explain. I’m very new at this. You do, right, young lady. But I will say one thing, my psychologist does a lot of mindfulness with me and everything that Regina is saying is what she does.
Good darling, mother. And I love the energy in here. That’s why I need to say it. What’s your name, darling? Rachel.
Good on you, Rachel. Thank you, sweetheart. Thanks. Else? Four forty.
You have twenty minutes. Can I ask you a question? Come on, Jan Govan. Have a friend with depression and anxiety. Do I help them?
Why do we always say them together? Well, this person does have both. I’ve heard everybody say anxiety and depression. Maybe I’d just like to hear, can somebody tell me how their anxiety functions? Tell me about anxiety, how you describe it, because maybe we’re doing different definitions here.
This person becomes very anxious. You mean like panic attacks? Yes, he actually falls down and can’t breathe. I understand. And he has somatic, you know, so he gets constipation and all this sort of stuff as a result of his anxiety and then he finds that he can’t function, just goes to bed, doesn’t want to speak to anybody, There are times when he’s come to my door to come to a dinner party and turned away because he can’t face being with other I hear it.
So tell me other people’s anxiety. Does it work? How would you describe anxiety? It’s like the fear of the unknown. The fear of the unknown?
Yeah, you don’t know what’s going to come next. So you’re thinking about it, imagining something. So you’re imagining bad things happening basically. Is that right? Or worried about good things not happening?
The what say some things, what if what? You, hang on a sec, just sec darling, so you tell me what do you mean? Say some things, tell the words. See this is what I think, all of this, these feelings we call anxiety. The fact is these thoughts are all chatting away really deep down until we hear them and that’s when the panic comes but they’re all coming from thoughts so what are the thoughts being expressed here?
Say them to me, what are you saying in your head? I need to fix it. You kind of just experience anxiety, you don’t necessarily know No, that’s the physical feeling, the thoughts are coming first. In other words it’s not possible for there to be no please wait Rachel, I want to hear this guy, I really want to hear, I want to hear other people too. What I’m trying to get at is there is no way in the universe there could be an anxious feeling or an angry feeling without there first being the thoughts beneath, but we just don’t pay attention.
I feel like it can be complex like Of course it’s complex. It’s like your self esteem, like you don’t think you’re good enough All of this, okay, as part of your anxiety for you? So shyness in people’s presence, embarrassed? Shyness, embarrassment. So then you’ve got a new job and you’re worried you can’t do it?
I don’t have a job because I’ve had experienced anxiety too much that I just became isolated. So if you’ve gone for job interviews? Yeah I just had one recently. So what happened, tell me about it. I was extremely comfortable which was unexpected and I just realised that I can’t be scared of feeling anxiety, it’s like you’re trying to avoid it but really it’s making it worse.
So you feel like you’re going somewhere with it? Definitely, it’s been a while but you’re making progress. So in other words another way of saying that is you’re becoming more optimistic would you say that? More optimistic? Just expanding your mind.
There you go, so in a way you’re answering it by speaking it. Point is none of this is easy, I’m not saying it’s easy, but we have to analyse it like this. It comes down to these thoughts. I had a question before, to constantly avoid all these awful feelings that we don’t want to experience, that’s aversion right? Of course it is, we can’t stand them, we can’t bear them, we want them all go away.
The Buddhist monks and nuns, aren’t they constantly living in aversion? What do mean darling? Because you want to experience you know bliss and all the good feelings all the time. So you’re living in a state of aversion aren’t you? What do mean sweetheart?
It’s fascinating, analyse that for me, please unpack it. What do you mean? You mean because I’m celibate? What’s the reasoning? Do think about Today we’ve just been explaining how to not feel these bad feelings and stuff and where they come from and stem from, and like a Buddhist nun or a monk they’re just constantly living in aversion aren’t they?
But I’m just what I’m trying to ask you what do you mean by that darling? Do I look like I’m miserable? Do I look like I’m angry? No but like aversion? Do I feel like I’m a what do you You’ve found a way to never What darling?
I don’t know, like you’ve found a way to never feel awful feelings Who told you that? How do you know that? No that’s the aim isn’t it? No but darling, no no this is being very naive, it’s okay I’m glad you said it, it’s really helpful No the aim is to never feel good all the time isn’t If you’re describing the person how to play tennis you’ve got to describe the way to play tennis isn’t it? But it doesn’t mean you can do it very well yet, does it?
But you’re practicing it aren’t you? So you have confidence because you’ve the method haven’t you? Well all I’m doing is describing Buddhist tennis I’m describing the mind, I’m describing the delusions, I’m describing the virtues, I’m describing how we work on this so these are tools I’m trying to practice myself and maybe I’ve succeeded at playing, you know, hitting a few shots So I can say it with confidence because I’m working with it. But my god until you highly realize the Buddha would say you’re gonna still have this stuff and that’s why and part of my thing is you learn to live with this stuff. One of my ways of talking about all this is I say I’ve got all these roommates.
I’ve got twenty seven variations of attachment roommates and jealousy and anger and depression. They’re all there, I recognize every one of these. And there are all these roommates in my head and normally when you’re uncontrolled they run the show don’t they? Suddenly jealousy runs rampant and he’s screaming and yelling at the thing, then anger runs rampant and shouting at that person, and then attachments runs rampant and you stuff fourteen pieces of cake in your mouth, we’re like demented right? These crazy roommates running the show, that’s a mad person, that’s join the universe okay?
So over the years what I’m trying to do is heal those roommates, listen to their stories, the jealous stories, the anger stories, more and more subtle, and you develop and you then discover whole levels of other roommates in the cellars and the attics that you didn’t even know existed before. So you’re bringing them all out, welcome them, open up the doors, come on out baby I want to hear you. And then also your good roommates, your kindness, your wisdom, your clarity, your love, your self respect that are hiding under the hiding in the cupboard all the time because the bloody maniacs are running the show. So they’re coming out more and your optimism and your confidence and they argue with the crazy roommates and slowly the crazy roommates start to calm down. They’re going to be there for a long time, you’ll eventually get rid of them, they’ll leave the house one day but you learn to control them.
You hear what they’re saying but you don’t buy into their stories so much, you buy into the good stories. That’s practice baby! And you’re doing it, you just said it! So we’ve got to confront every damn crazy roommate, I don’t care if you want to rape a dog, you’ve got to know you want to rape a dog. You’ve got to know you want to kill your father, hear it, confront it, look at it, analyse it, work with it, and then argue and keep moving, keep moving, keep moving, keep moving.
Did you hear any? Yes. No I didn’t actually. Do you still get angry and and have Sweetheart! I kind of described to you what’s going on.
I’m fully involved in doing this job that I’m describing here, that’s what I can tell you. I put my I try to put my money where my mouth is. Do you understand? Yeah. Okay that’s all that matters.
We’re all playing tennis together. We’re all aiming to become like Federer. Do you get my point? As to how far I’ve got that’s for you to find out not for me to tell you. Do you understand?
What’s your name darling? Jamie. Thank you Jamie, you’re doing great. You’re so go on, what happened to Jan? Yes darling?
I just have a really practical question. Where do we start with meditating? If we’re brand new Jan? Okay, well why don’t we just do before we finish we’ll do a little five minute I’ll tell you this little technique how you start with it. There’s forty seven variations but I’ll just do one of variations for you.
We’ll do that, we’ll start. Great, thank you. But Jan I don’t think your question got answered did it? Your friend? You see the point about panic attacks let me just tell you some experience I’ve got too.
A friend of mine, same thing, same thing. She’d be on the phone and it was very interesting having it directly there in my ear. So one of the things that I’ve learned over the years dealing with people in prison, dealing with my own mind, dealing with lots of crazy people and I mean by that all of us join the club here. That part of my own experience is the more I can own my own qualities, the more honest I can be and accept my own anger, my neuroses and my crazy roommates, the more courage I have in confronting other people and less fearful of them. If I can’t stand someone else’s panic attack because I can’t bear my own, if I can’t stand someone else’s anger because I haven’t dealt with my own yet, that’s really a no brainer.
So one of the things because I am such a maniac, know, and I don’t mean that ridiculously I mean really intense, I’m obviously a pretty intense person right you understand so emotions are quite strong but I’ve tried to be sincere in doing this job really sincere in it having enthusiasm for it and then also wanting to help other people which is why I love my friends in prison you know With all the craziness I remember one of my friends I love telling stories about my friends in prison one maniac, Richie, Mexican ex gangster killed several people on the streets of Los Angeles what they do you know gangsters kill people He’s Mexican. So there he is, he’s in prison and he’s heard about Buddhism from one of my other friends in prison. I go to visit him one day, he’s written to me a letter, Richie tells me several times about it. I’ll be very laid back, said, but I get very angry. So then I met him one day and there he was, I had the glass between us on the phones covered in his tattoos, they all have their tattoos, so they said it’s all prison art, know.
I said how’s your anger Richie? And he kind of brushed under his tattoos and he said well Robina I’m sorry I have to confess that I had a fight with my celly, his cell mate, this morning and I put his head down the toilet. But then he said but Robina I took it out again. Now my feeling is I haven’t got your thing on. Can you hear me okay?
You? Oh good I forgot to put your thing on but my feeling is there he is a maniac Mexican gangster who’s killed four people already on the streets of Los Angeles. I don’t think you’d define that as a Buddhist practitioner but he was a Buddhist practitioner right there he didn’t kill a fifth person you know I had such admiration he decided his mindfulness worked that he didn’t kill the fourth person or the fifth whatever it was I thought that’s incredible. I thought give me people like that any day, know, than people who sit there looking all holy watching their breath thinking they’re some damn Buddhist practitioner. Give me a person like that who’s really working on their crazy mind, know?
Do you understand? So for me I’ve got great courage from that and because I’m a bit of a maniac myself I appreciate these guys you know and they must recognise because they think I’m great. Do you understand? So to have fearlessness of other people’s rubbish comes starts with your own self. So this friend of mine who had this panic attack should be on the phone and I think to myself well how am I going to help her?
Now one of our problems with our compassion we have compassion, we want to help people there’s no question but our problem is we don’t realise it’s riddled, it’s polluted by our own attachment for things to be nice. So we manipulate people to change and we always assume it’s our job to make them better. But I figured what’s my job here? My job is to merely listen so she’d be on the phone absolutely panic attack and I’d just listen to her, Yes darling, I understand sweetheart, oh I can only imagine how bad it is. I do understand, it might go on for one hour.
I didn’t try to change her, I sat there like a rock helping her hold her anxiety because I was like this rock. I didn’t try to change her but I knew if I kept there with her, yes darling I understand, oh I know what you mean, oh it must be terrible, I understand, I really meant it and slowly it died down. I didn’t try to change it, even what happened was this, even went to a friend who’s a Buddhist, who’s now a therapist. So she went to the therapist, had a panic attack, she went to the therapist, my friend, a Buddhist and a therapist and she rang me up from there, said he wants to send me to the ER, he wants to send me to the ER, you mean he panicked as well. Because we can’t stand someone else’s panic, we can’t stand someone else’s anger.
So I had to calm her down to help him calm down, to say panic. So my feeling is we’ve got to have a lot of courage in the face of our own dramas and not be scared of them and therefore we have confidence and courage about other people as well. So this they love your friend for who he is. It’s like your alcoholic brother, know. We love our alcoholic brother.
But our attachment wants him to change. So we act all lovey dovey yes darling and then we talk about him like as if an alcoholic brother, we only see an alcoholic brother, we define him as an alcoholic brother, we give him lectures, we try to manipulate him to change and we get mad when he doesn’t. Well back off and mind your own business please. If he wants tools from you he will ask you. Meanwhile you have respect for your alcoholic brother, you see more than just merely alcoholic brother, the loving qualities he’s always had, you still got them.
Respect him, treat him nice, don’t try to manipulate him, love him for who he is and your heart will break for him as well but if he’s not ready to change don’t stick your nose in where it’s not wanted please. And that’s where we panic, when we can’t stand other people’s suffering, you know? Do you understand what I’m saying people? Yes. That’s ninety nine percent of our anxiety.
We want to make the whole world a nice place because we can’t stand it. We’ve got to be brave okay to the mania, be brave of Mr Trump and the racists. I remember having a long conversation with a white supremacist one time, you know. I was delighted in talking to him and trying not to have a panic attack, you know. We have a panic attack, we hear about racism, we have a panic attack.
Relax, the world’s full of garbage but you know we can handle it. It’s okay. They talk about brave Bodhisattvas who’ve got compassion who never give up being brave in the face of problems and when we can do that ourselves we’ll become amazing I tell you. So one step at a time. Isn’t it?
Let’s do this business then. So this technique is so simple it’s embarrassing. Okay? Success at it that’s another discussion but we’re going to start somewhere. So basically I’ve got to say some few things first I’m sorry.
There are lots and lots of mindfulness techniques that are taught in the world by different people. That’s completely fine. There are lots of relaxation techniques and we need relaxing because we really need it badly. But this particular technique coming from this technique that came out of the Buddha, from these Hindus before the Buddha, is simply and I have to say it this way purposely it’s psychological skill. It’s the ability to focus the mind.
So in reality it’s not to calm the mind down, it’s not to make you feel good, it’s not to make the problems all go away, it’s not to get special feelings and visions and any of this stuff. It’s just superstitious rubbish. It’s simply a technique to help you with determination to pay attention to something you decide to pay attention to. Why? Because you want to begin to be conscious of what the hell is going on between these two ears of ours, you know?
So you start somewhere. That’s why even three minutes really full on determined effort to just focus the mind for three minutes is incredible. To write your twenty minutes ninety nine percent spacing out, it’s just wasting your time. Relaxing is nothing wrong, go for relaxing please. But this is not a relaxation technique.
It’s a skill to help you focus so that eventually you can start to listen, like she’s saying, to the thoughts when they pop up. That’s all. It’s like a clarity. And it doesn’t mean it’s going to come immediately. I’ve been a Buddhist all these years, but believe me I didn’t do any meditation for the first four years.
I didn’t want to sit with my eyes closed, it was the stupidest thing I ever heard. And I mean this! So don’t define yourself as a Buddhist, you’re sitting like this all the time. Excuse me, I wanted to work on my mind, but on the run, thank you. I couldn’t sit there like this, I’d explode.
Are you seeing what I’m saying? So to think you’ve got little wild little children and you tell them to watch their breath, it’s the stupidest thing you’d ever do. It’s nonsense, it’s cliched. You’ve got to work with a person’s energy, you know? So to me with my volatile energy and my doing energy, I can do things, focus, do things, but I want to see my mind and I use lots of methods and now I can meditate after forty years, it’s okay, a little bit.
So don’t mystify meditation. Do you understand? And there’s many ways to learn to listen to your thoughts. We all do it anyway, just have to learn to be better at it, that’s all, get deeper down, you know? Okay, so the technique is this: you simply get your body in a comfortable position.
Then I’ll go through the points. There’s a classic eight stages, seven points about the body. So all these Indians and Tibetans, you know how they sit cross legged like this, the great meditators who are doing this stuff long term for years on end, getting real deep into the mind, not just spacing out, believe me, they’ve all found that sitting in that position is very very stable. You don’t topple over, it’s practical, you know? Well we’re not made like this, we haven’t sat cross-legged since we were little kids.
So chairs are fine, you do what you can. If you can sit this way, fantastic, you get very stable. The first point is your legs. The next point is your back. We’re all sitting in chairs.
So now don’t lean into the chair. So sit up straight with your feet planted on the ground because you’ve to hold your own body up. That’s really important. Otherwise you slump and then you go to sleep. So keep your body upright.
So now like to say this is not the way they say it in the text but think of your entire skeleton as hanging on a hanger. It’s ramrod straight isn’t it? Completely straight, upright, Everything upright. Your back like an arrow they say. And the coccyx is the head of the arrow pointing into the ground.
Think like that. But your whole, all your skeleton, think it’s completely ramrod straight. Now relax, flop all the muscles, but don’t flop your body. Just relax the muscles at your abdomen, your shoulders, the soft bits should be hanging loosely on the skeleton. It’s really important to have your body upright but relaxed.
Consciously, especially your abdomen. I think we always squeeze our abdomen because we don’t like looking fat, you know? So relax, just flop the muscles. The next one is your hands and you can do what you like on your hands like this, in your lap there’s a traditional position like this, your left underneath, thumbs touching, forming a triangle this way if you like, or you can have it your knees, it’s really okay, whatever’s comfy. But the next part is your head, most important, several things.
And all this is coming from the experience of the great meditators over the centuries what’s most practical. The next one your head should be slightly tilted forward, chin tucked in, just a bit. The next bit your jaw relaxed. Now your lips slightly apart. And have the tip of the tongue this is odd but it’s practical the tip of the tongue resting behind your top teeth just near the palate.
All the meditators have found this prevents you from dribbling, which is very practical. It’s very practical, all this stuff is practical, not holy, okay? So then finally your eyes should be looking all the meditators who meditate in the day as well say that it’s best to have your eyelids open because all the light comes in and keeps your mind very sharp. But most of us get spaced out so we get too distracted. So keep your eyes closed but have your eyes beneath your eyelids looking down along your nose as if you’re looking towards the ground.
Okay, upright, back straight, muscles relaxed, hands, head tilted forward, chin tucked in, jaw relaxed, lips apart, tip of the tongue behind the top teeth just resting near the palate, breathing through your nose and then your eyes and down. So this is the classic position that all the meditators for centuries have found to be the most conducive. Because the fact is your body doesn’t meditate, your mind does, your awareness does. So that’s the body. Now we’re going to talk about what the mind has to do and I’ll describe it and then we’ll do it for like three or four Basically what we’re going to do is really really simple.
We’re going to pay attention. You know what? Pay attention! You’re determined. You’re to pay attention to one thing.
That’s the goal. And that thing and it could be many different things you can use, as many techniques but this one you simply pay attention to the sensation at your nostrils as you breathe in and out. So let’s first take a couple of breaths, very deep but not loud, all the way down to your abdomen. But while you do this couple of breaths, just locate that sensation as the air hits your nostrils. It’s slightly different as it goes in and out, but just locate that sensation That’s what we’re going to then focus on.
So a couple of breaths in and out and locate that sensation first. Okay so I think for like three or four minutes and almost I mean this it’s kind of interesting don’t think you’re supposed to space out it’s actually the opposite to spacing out you’ve got to be so alert. It’s almost like you’re walking on the edge of a cliff or you’re driving one hundred and twenty ks’s on a six lane freeway. There is no way you’re going to space out and relax. That’s not ridiculous, know?
You’ve got to stay totally alert but you’ve got to combine the alertness with if you’re so tense you’ll have a crash. So there’s not to be the tension but you’ve got to be super, super alert but clear. So try to get that balance between being really sharply determined I will not miss one breath, no way. At the same time, combine that with being not too tense, but strong determination. I’m going to watch my breath.
Breath going out, breath going in. Now before we do that, what’s going to happen is naturally you’re going to forget what you’re doing. This is just natural. You’re going to wander off and listen to something and space out, have thoughts, but you’re going to be watching like a hawk. The second your attention wanders off from the breath, you pick yourself up and you bring yourself back to the breath.
You bring yourself back to the breath. And I promise, if you do that fifty times a minute, that’s better than spacing out. Spacing out is relaxing and we need it, but that’s not the goal here, is to keep the mind sharp and alert. With strong determination, just simply pay attention to the breath. Just bring your mind back to the breath.
Check the breath. Keep your mind sharp, focused, not spaced out. Stay relaxed now. That’s about four minutes. The point of this exercise, remember, is not to space out, not to feel good not to relax but that’s not the point.
The point is to stay sharp and focused. They say there’s two main obstacles to this. In the mind we either have the tendency to be berserk mind never stopping and that we know about or the mind that goes into dullness and you go off to sleep. Know, they’re the two extremes. So the goal is to get the mind to be clear but steady, clear but calm, and that’s long term.
What I’m saying here too is the immediate benefit of this technique is not that your thoughts will all go away that’s just common because we can’t stand them it’s that you start to listen to them and hear them and that’s the real job. So we can hear what’s there and that we learn that ever better, ever better, and we get deeper and deeper and hear the stuff ever more conceptual, ever more subtle, ever more subtle all the cognitive dramas of ego, you know? That’s the key job learning to unpack and unravel and be fearless about what’s in our own mind, you know? That’s the plan. Right, so food for thought?
If there isn’t any food for thought, I’m very sorry, but that’s okay. Look at that. Red and white, that’s the Sydney Swans! But I’ve got a feeling the wretched old carton is probably beating us, I’m too scared to look at the result. So it’s six points behind us, anyone ever know that’s the Swans, it’s red and white.
Oh my gosh. And then later, can’t wait for the dark chocolate. Oh, I’m telling you, adore chocolate. Thank you. Thank Sorry, let me just want to finish with a prayer at the end as well.
Two little prayers. One I’m saying, this is a bit loose interpretation, here we’ve been this five hours, that’s a long time isn’t it? No, three, three. Four. As many moments as there have been for the Buddha is as many thoughts we’ve had and not one of those thoughts has gone astray they’ve all gone in.
We think as many thoughts as we’ve had, as many seeds we’ve planted. And so we think how amazing, maybe nourish these seeds. How incredible. Maybe nourish these seeds from this moment forward, never giving up on our own amazing potential, never, I mean it, so that we can develop this marvellous potential, so we can be a benefit to others, one step at a time. The second little prayer is just making the aspiration the compassion, grow and grow in the hearts of all.
Thank you everybody very much.