y Respect Yourself — 2015-07-28

Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.

About this talk. In this 107-minute talk, Ven Robina Courtin opens with a radical claim: the mind, not external events, is the source of happiness and suffering. She walks through the Buddhist understanding of mind as non-physical and infinitely flexible, explaining how attachment, anger, and low self-esteem—which seem normal—are actually neuroses we can observe and change. Drawing on decades of work in prisons, she illustrates why taking responsibility for your own mind is liberating and courageous. She frames Buddhist practice as developing two wings: wisdom (knowing your mind) and compassion (helping others), emphasizing we must stabilize ourselves first. Pitched at both serious practitioners and newcomers seeking practical tools for examining the patterns that cause suffering.

File metadata (for organising)

File: 01 RY 2015 07 28.mp3

UUID: 5d75e39f-0c89-4293-925d-95a1186370a2

Teacher: Ven Robina Courtin

Collection: y Respect Yourself (Ven Robina Courtin)

Date: 2015-07-28

Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide

Duration: 107.4 minutes

Words: ~21,607

Okay. Good. Alright. I still can’t see somebody, but maybe then I’ll come in. I can’t well, I’ll try to organize everybody, but I’m not supposed to be organizing.

But the smaller team should be in the front, not the back. So sorry. But to me, it’s kind you gotta communicate. Otherwise, it’s so full, formal, and you say a prayer and just it’s just too depressing for me. It’s like we operate.

Okay. So let’s communicate. Okay. Thank you for inviting me to add. The first time I came here was in nineteen sixty four when I was nineteen, and I fell in love with a married man, and I was still going to mass, and I had to run away.

And Sydney team seemed too scary, so I came to Adelaide. That was my first time here. I’ve been here since. Okay. I wanna say I need prayer to start from the prayer, but it has meaning.

Okay? Prayers are words and words are thoughts. And for the Buddha, thoughts are everything. Everything comes down to our thoughts. That’s and that’s the Buddha’s expertise, and this this is what we’ll be talking about tonight.

There’s two there’s two parts to this prayer. The first two lines are for any of us in the room who’ve kind of identified already with being a Buddhist, and it’s reminding us of it’s kind of reiterating our reliance on the Buddha and his teachings. And the second two lines gonna be for all of us. It’s expressing an altruistic or, you know, altruistic opt an altruistic kind of reasonable goal or purpose for our being here together. So kind of intentionally think, okay.

We’re sitting here. We’re listen for an hour or so, whatever’s going on, hour and a half, whatever, two hours, ready to hear Buddha’s ideas, Buddha’s views, Buddha’s actually, Buddha’s own direct experiential findings. Everything that’s Buddhism is not revelation. It’s his own experience or findings about happiness, suffering, humanity, the mind, these things. And we we gotta listen because we wanna see if there’s some tools we can take.

Let’s be practical. Tools to help us develop for the Buddha what is our extraordinary potential, and then in turn so that we can help others because we all live in this world together. You know? So we can help them develop their potential too thinking like this. You know, Lama Yeshe, who’s the founder of Buddha House and all the sister centers around the world, he would say, should learn to be our own psychologist, learn to be our own therapist.

And it sounds like a bit of a marketing ploy, but act and it is, but actually it’s a totally perfect one. It’s exactly correct. That really it’s not a joke to say that being a Buddhist is being your own therapist. So why would you wanna do that? You know?

What would be the reason? So for because for the Buddha, like I’ve already indicated, you know, with every single being, every human being, every being, and the word in Tibetan is very nice, is every mind possessor. Mind possessor has phenomenal potential, you know, to develop what? To develop really simply to get rid of all the rubbish and develop all the goodness, putting it really simply. You know?

So the word Buddha actually, which is Sanskrit, the word in Tibetan is and the first syllable Sang implies the utter eradication from a mind, from this consciousness of ours, of all the neuroses, all the fears, the dramas, ego, jealousy, depression, attachment, low self esteem. And then the second syllable implies the full development, the development literally to perfection of the goodness, and we all know that stuff as love, compassion, wisdom, kindness. So it’s a shocking concept, actually. I mean, psychologically, and this is exactly what we’re talking here. We’re talking psychologically.

You know, Buddha is is his expertise is the mind and how to develop this marvelous potential. And, I mean, it’s bit but it’s kind of shocking. If one of you is a therapist and I come and ask you, forgive me, please give me methods to get rid of all ego, all fears, all jealousy, all depression, all low self esteem and develop infinite love and compassion for all beings all the time, you would think I’m mentally ill. You’re seriously worried about me and give me a few pills. And that’s not a joke because there’s no concept like that.

We know that, you know. I mean, the default assumption in all the models of our mind in this in this modern world, the default assumption that never questioned is that, you know, anger, jealousy, low self esteem, they’re normal human characteristics. And we give them equal status with the good ones, love, compassion, kindness, etcetera. And so we kind of assume that a a reasonable person has a bit of a balance of all of these. You know?

That’s the best we can do. But the Buddha is way more radical than that, and that’s really a simple way of putting it. He is outrageously more radical, his own experience, his own direct findings. And this is something that’s kind of important to just sort of remember every time we listen to the Buddha’s teaching because we know you might vaguely know the Buddha doesn’t talk about a creator. But, I mean, we should unpack that and look at the experiential implication at that point, which is kind of tasty.

I remember the Dalai Lama recently hearing and you you know, you see it in the way he teaches that this that Buddhism, you know, it comes from these extraordinary Indian thinkers more three more than three thousand years ago, the Hindus, basically. And I think even most Indians, most Hindus, and certainly most modern people have no idea of the astonish you know, the astonishing, again, findings of these remarkable thinkers more than three thousand years ago for which Buddha came. You know? And their expertise, what they were dealing with is as Dalai Lama said, their topic was was the nature of self. What is the self?

They were the ones more than more than three thousand years ago and began this extraordinary investigation into the nature of self. So that’s that’s what their topic was. That’s what they investigated. And they were the ones who also who came up with these remarkable things that we call meditation, these techniques, these psychological techniques. And in these days, it’s so popular in the West, this idea of mindfulness.

This has come out directly not just from the Buddha, but directly from the Hindus who preceded him. He came out of that extraordinary tradition. You know? And these are these amazing remarkable thinkers, not just hippie trippy spacey meditators, which is that was a cliche view we have of, say, religion and certainly in meditation. This they they they, from their own findings, investigated and discovered much subtler, more refined levels of this mind of ours, this consciousness of ours.

And it’s you know, and it was through these techniques that they then began to look into the very nature of what is a self. That was their topic. And the Buddha came exactly out of this, and he diverged in his own direction with with, as we know, his own very clear, precise findings about exactly what is a self and indeed what is the potential of a self, of a person. You know? So the the other and the point about the Buddha, you know, if we we think religion I mean, I was born of a Catholic, very happy with my Catholic upbringing, you know, very grateful.

And we look at all the religions, what we think of as religions, especially the big institutions. For us, it’s default mode. Religion equals creator. Therefore, religion equals belief. It means something you don’t attempt to prove will be considered beyond arrogance to then start to investigate what God has found to be so and demand demand his reasons.

I mean, if we’re really a devoted Christian or Muslim, you know, we we have total faith in God. It’s his business. As one of my Catholic friends said, he tries to get out of the way so God can do his job. This is totally perfect. You know?

Because the the right concept of a creator is someone who is above everybody else, absolutely sure, and who is the source in everybody else and the source of everything else and the laws of morality and the entire universe is the is the handiwork of a creator. So the natural the relationship we have is one of belief. Therefore, the teachings are indeed given a revelation revelation. There’s no I mean, there are concepts like this, but the fundamental Buddhist one is that Buddha was this regular person, basically, who, in that marvelous tradition, learned all these extraordinary techniques and then continued on his own way, in his own investigations, in his own mind at these subtle levels, far more subtle than we in our culture would even posit as existing, you know, subtle levels of mind. If you were to see a person who’d fully accomplished the this technique that we generally know these days is meant as mindfulness, which is this marvelous technique, again, like a a psychological technique that enables a person to go to much subtle levels, more refined levels of mind.

If you were to see a person who’s accomplished this way back since these Hindus, which the Buddha has taken and as a living tradition up to the present, you would they would look like as if they were dead. Because the Buddha will assert subtler, more refined levels of mind that don’t depend upon the physical brain for their existence. You know? So the Buddha was this regular person who from his own hard work investigating his own mind and the nature of the universe, that’s what they’re dealing with, came up with everything that is Buddhism. Whatever you’re hearing in this room, this is where you need to be very confident that what you’re hearing is valid.

Because I have to say there’s lots of people around, lots of stuff that’s published, especially in the modern day that is labeled Buddhist that might not be authentic, might not be really kind of valid teaching. We should be very careful about this. Any system that you you study, you should be careful that the sources are authentic. But the the Buddhist the Buddha, every word of Buddhism, if it is valid coming it’s coming from the Buddha, not from revelation. It’s not technically in itself a belief system.

It has to be something that’s coming from his own experience and therefore something to be proved and to be experienced, to be known directly, to be to be verified and proved. That’s the point in Buddhism. So it’s just an interesting point that every word you’re hear in this room is coming from the Buddha. I’ve received my teachings from the the the Tibetan Buddhists, Dalai Lama, and all these the other various beings who studied in this great monastic university system in Tibet, which tracks itself back to the marvelous monastic university system of India in the third and fourth and fifth up to the sixth and seventh century. And then before that, of course, right back to the Buddha.

So it’s, you know, the teachings from the Buddhism therefore are not technically in themselves to be believed only. To be trusted, you know, or to have confidence in them, that’s part of the process. You know? No question. But this concept of merely believing as the essence of a religious practice, this doesn’t exist in Buddhism.

As Adalam often tells us modern westerners when he’s talking, said, you know, if you do decide to follow Buddhism, to take Buddhism on board in your life and you do follow the methods and practice them, then at some point, if you do follow, it’s like being given a recipe and you try it and you can prove it actually doesn’t work, that it’s actually incorrect, well, then you must you you you you prove that. Well, then Buddha’s wrong. You must reject him. So this emphasis here too means we are the boss. Not Buddha.

We’re the boss. Like, he’s more like a scientist, and this is a big surprise to us. But it is actually more like Einstein, let’s say, than our normal view of a religious person. In the sense that if I were Einstein here telling you about, say, I don’t know, relativity, and I don’t know if you’ve disproved since let’s pretend it’s true. But you know very well if I ever started telling you that you have to believe what I’m telling you, you’d throw me out the door.

Or that this was from revelation, you’d really throw me out the door. And that you would hope if I am speaking about it that I have proved it to be true. But then you wouldn’t just walk out the door and say, oh, yeah. Relativity is true. It’s been proven.

Oh, you proved it? No. I don’t know. But it’s proved by Einstein. Well, that’s not enough.

You have to prove it. You can you can say he’s a valid person, and then you but you need to go through the exact same steps that Einstein did and come to the same conclusions. Then you can say it’s science. It’s your science. Well, that’s very much the approach here.

So we can believe in Buddhism. You no one said you can’t believe anything. You’re the boss. You know? But it’s a bit like saying you believe in mathematics.

Oh, I believe in mathematics. I’m very happy for you. But please, would you tell me how to add up one plus one is two? Oh, no. I can’t do that.

What good is it to you? You can’t if you can’t apply it when you go to the market to buy five oranges and you don’t you don’t know what five is, but you still believe in not much help is it. Believing is good. You’re confident that maths works, but you know you gotta go prove it and use it. So the same here.

This is the point in Buddhism. You know? It has to be something experiential. It has to be something you’d so you take on board. You know?

As you’re when I say this all the time, I never say I believe in Buddhism consciously. I say, I’m using it as my working hypothesis. And that sounds a bit kind of pompous perhaps, but it’s utterly true. It’s the exact approach that Buddha says. You know?

Again, they don’t have the word back then, I suggest. There’s no word probably in Hindu or in in Pali that says hypothesis. You know, it’s our of these Greek words. But that’s exactly the approach. Because, know, yourself with this one if you if you’ve never heard, let’s say, of acupuncture.

And suddenly, you know, you’re in our allopathic system back in the forties and fifties in this country, and you heard of these weird wacko Chinese people who stuck needles in you, you think very peculiar. And immediately, your first view is impossible. But then you maybe keep hearing about it, so you can’t immediately believe in it. You’ve got to immediately understand it all. You gotta remove yourself, your own mind out of your own system, and start taking the possibility that it could be true.

That means taking it as you work in hypothesis. And then as you study it and look into it, you can then gradually prove it to be true. You experience it for yourself, and you verify it. That’s the approach here. Okay.

So what is Buddha on about? What’s his what’s the essential point? Well, this point, he says it like I mentioned before, he would say, every person, every living being possesses the potential to become this word Buddha, to develop to rid the mind about all the rubbish and to grow all the goodness. So that’s long term. Don’t hold your breath.

Mhmm. But even what’s the implication of this? The implication is that we can change our minds. So what’s inside there, the contents of this mind of ours are, you know, infinitely flexible and that we have this marvelous potential to, you know, to investigate it, to identify, and begin to distinguish between the so called negative states of mind, the ones that he says, and we can look into this, are the ones that causes so much pain and misery and other source of why we harm others, and that we can grow and develop to phenomenal degrees of affection, the goodness within us, love, compassion, and the rest. You know?

So on the face of it, quite a simple concept. The development of this, the actual accomplishment of this, you know, for goodness’ sake, take many lives. But let’s look again at the at the immediate application of this idea and the one and and the experiential implication of it for us right now, you know, in, let’s say, in our daily life. The essence of it is that Buddha is saying that, yes, we’re we live in this interdependent world and that we’re impacted by all sorts of things. People do good things to us.

People do bad things to us. We all know this. We all know this. But we have this deep assumption, don’t we. Look at our behavior.

Look at the behavior of a dog. That when the good things happen, that’s the cause of happiness. And when the bad things happen, that’s the cause of suffering. So we spend our lives manipulating to get the nice things because we want happiness and desperately trying to avoid the horrible things because that’s what suffering is. So this is like an assumption we all have.

You know? So then another way of talking and bringing us to our title, respect yourself. Another way of looking at this is the Buddha’s view is that the more caught up we are in these, you know, neuroses now you wouldn’t like that word, another one of the words we coined from Greek. You know, these neuroses is unhappiness, is low self esteem, you know, so self centeredness, jealousy, fears, anger, depression, stuff that we know just automatically. And that, again, that we assume are normal parts of human nature, which means for us we can’t change them.

I think this is deep in our bones. The Buddha’s view is, yes, they’re normal, but, yes, you can change them. And why would you want to? Because they’re horrible. If if something is fine, you don’t have to change it.

But and all Buddha is saying is that this mind is an infinitely flexible thing. And what he means by the mind is where it’s really crucial to understand what he’s saying about the mind. Because if we use our materialist view of the mind, it doesn’t make much sense. You know? So just out of interest, Buddha’s view of the mind is, first of all, you’ve gotta take this as your hypothesis because you can’t prove it immediately, but your mind is not your brain.

This is bit of a shock. Your mind is not physical. Not physical. He doesn’t use the word soul or spirit, but your mind is not your brain. Or your so the second point, your mind is a bit another shocking point.

Again, one of the absolute assumptions we have in our world is you’re you’re the handiwork either of a superior being, if you’re religious, or of your mommy and daddy, if you’re a materialist. In either case, they essentially are the ones who created you. So natural so but for the Buddha, he doesn’t agree with this either. He doesn’t disagree your mother gave you mommy and daddy gave you a brain. They did.

They gave you the genes and the DNA and the body and all the rest. But he would say, that is not your mind. So like I said, you can’t prove that immediately. That’s extremely subtle point. But he says, the long term, we can do we can cognize this fact, but we have to take it as our working hypothesis.

That’s clearly a step even a first point in Buddhism, you know, to take this view that your mind is not your brain. So the third point about the mind is not used merely to refer to the intellectual process. You know, as we all know, we tend to say mind and we say heart or feelings. Well, interestingly, the Buddhist view that when they refer to the mind, they they point here, you know, the heart. But what they what what he means by the mind is is all your thoughts, the thoughts themselves, the actual cognitive processes, the actual thoughts, and we know there’s trillions of them in there.

All the thoughts, all the feelings, and, you know, the emotions, unconscious, subconscious, instinct, intuition, all of this this entire spectrum of our inner being. This is our mind. The word in Buddhism is used in a much more subjective kind of tasty experiential way. Yeah. So so then the other point, the fourth point about the mind that’s, again, radically different as I suggested, is that we can we can access much more subtle, more more more refined levels of our mind.

And in the long term, to cultivate to to accomplish this goal that he says we can, we need to access these these more subtle levels and these meditation techniques, concentration meditation, the one that’s known as mindfulness these days, that can get us to those subtle levels. And it’s not just because it’s something just for its own sake, but because the mind is this phenomenally capable thing. And with this mind, the Buddha says, we can learn to investigate its contents. Because for the Buddha, in the long term, his big picture view, everything that goes on in the mind is the source of happiness and suffering. So for him, it’s utterly central that we we know the mind, we investigate it, we understand its nature, and then and then the crucial thing of developing single point of concentration, but even just beginning to develop these simple skills to focus the mind is because we can step out of the mess in here as we know it from the second we wake up until the second we go to sleep.

It’s constantly going, and it’s quite so there’s one way to tell that white noise. It’s always there until, of course, it becomes black noise and it’s roaring to the surface that comes out the mouth or whatever. You know? Or alternatively, that you can’t so goes in so deeply, can’t get out of bed bed by morning. We’re just so depressed.

So we don’t we don’t tend to have techniques to know our mind well. We’re learning it more and more these days, kids as well, which is fantastic. So the word is an incredibly practical thing to do, to learn to use these simple techniques to invest, to help you recognize the contents of your mind because guess what? Because you are in charge of your mind, which doesn’t feel very true to us. We think everybody else is.

We think we’re being dragged like a puppet on a string. You know, when lovely things happen, I’m just naturally happy. And if bad things end, I’m just naturally suffering. Meaning, I’m not in charge of my mind, but everything out there is. This is really how we look.

Look at world. You know? Buddha says, no. We can be in charge of this mind and ours. And not only that, yes, indeed, it’s lovely to have good things happen, but we can develop an ability to be to be stable, to develop by by developing the the goodness within us and lessening the neuroses, that that is the source.

That is the source of happiness, regardless of the chocolate cake or the handsome boyfriend. You know? But we can cultivate. This is the fundamental nature of our mind, that we can cultivate more and more the goodness and lessen the rubbish. You know?

And we’re talking here not the brain. You don’t need a scalpel for this. You need your own mind. You need various characteristics like concentration and mindfulness, various mental characteristics that we use to then investigate the actual contents of our own mind. So one of the like I said, one of the consequences of the way we are now without having looked into our mind and and the consequences have been caught up in attachment and anger and fears and jealousy and depression to whatever degree, and we all know these words, is that we we become you know, one of the consequences is indeed we harm others, but the the immediate one is immeasurable.

So, you know, and the other another way of putting that is the more we’re caught up in the misery, the more self loathing we have. The more we feel disconnected from ourself, the more depressed, the more the more low self esteem, the more hopeless, the more the less confident we feel. I mean, we’re kind of consistent. You’re gonna got a person who’s really uncontrolled anger all the time. It’s evident to anybody with heart or brain, they’re not happy.

And although they might look like they hate everybody else, it’s kind of obvious that they are they are the sentient being of a person who doesn’t have any respect for themselves whatsoever. Would have to be, you know. If you’re really full of depression, which is the Buddhist view is the is is like an internalized version of anger, actually. You know, we can talk about this. Oh, thank you so much.

Fantastic. So the there’s a lovely analogy in Buddhism that, if we look at what a Buddha is, this final potential that we all have, you can say that a bird needs two wings. We need wisdom and we need compassion. And it’s a really good way of framing all the Buddha’s teachings, all the Buddha’s practices, and we’ll go you know, we’ll unpack this as we go along during the weekend and on Sunday. So you could say, you know, the point of it all is the compassion wing, which implies benefiting others.

And if we think of spiritual, normally, we tend to think of it as meaning that, help being a good person, helping other people. You know? But as the Dalai Lama says, compassion is not enough. You’ve gotta have wisdom. And what that means is this job putting yourself together first.

So that means you’ve got a the fundamental starting point here is you’ve got to recognize, as the Buddha would say, you know what? I’m sick of suffering, and I wanna be happy. But almost we feel that a bit embarrassing because we think happiness should be for other people. But he says you can’t possibly help other people. You can’t even help a dog if you’re miserable, you’re depressed, if you’re angry, you’ve got low self esteem.

You know? You can’t help anybody because you’re overwhelmed by your own misery. So it’s not as if we should feel guilty about that, which is how we typically feel. It’s like wrong. You know?

We get guilt. We get shame. And if we’re religious, we call it a sin, and they’re not gonna be punished. We have this really unhappy neurotic kind of approach to recognizing our own misery, recognizing our own depression, our fears, our jealousy, our anger. But the first step has to be, you know what?

I’m sick of suffering. I want happiness. I wanna be happy. And so what happiness means in the Buddha is very simple. There’s degrees of it, but it’s the extent to which we can lessen the neurosis and grow the goodness.

That’s what he means by happiness. The extent to which I can be less attached, less neurotic, less less self, you know, self loathing, less miserable, less arrogant, less low self esteem. That is what happiness is. The default view we tend to have, isn’t it? That happiness is what you end up with when you get what you want.

The nice things, the nice this, the nice that. And I’m not criticizing it, but it is a very deep assumption, which is what informs our wish to have the nice things because we assume that will bring happiness. It’s very con it’s very convincing to us. And that suffering is when you get the the miserable thing where you don’t get the nice things. But the Buddha is not arguing, nothing wrong with keeping you away from crazies and stop having them hit you.

It’s very sensible to be around nice people. Nothing wrong, he says. But if we have this deep assumption that having them, the nice ones, is what happened as it is, then we’ll get very, very needy and very that increases our huge bottomless pit of neediness and attachment to have all the nice things, which he says is the is the is itself the main source of our misery and of our own low self esteem. And then the more we have fear and anger, you you know, in where all the bad things happen, we’re like a mess. So he says fine to have good friends, fine to keep away from the rubbish people, but we’ve got to work on our own minds because that is the source.

That is the source of my finding, my own contentment, my own clarity, my own, fulfillment, my own self respect. It’s sort of obvious in a sense. And, you know, we’ve got you know, you can see it because you have a you have a kid who’s always angry, always unhappy, always throwing the chairs around the place and fighting with everybody. It’s kind of obvious they’re not happy. It’s clear they’re not happy, but sometimes we get so fundamentalist about it and caught up in all their naughty qualities.

They shouldn’t do this, and you shouldn’t do that. But it’s also really obvious, isn’t it, that a person is angry, that are like other people, but it’s clear they don’t have any self respect. And this is really one way what Buddha is saying. If we can really have this this this recognition that we are human, we have the right to be happy and the right not to suffer. Every human being every living being is like this.

So to take this on board for ourself with some self respect rather than thinking it’s being selfish, We have to put ourselves together. We have to practice the wisdom wing. We have to know our own mind. We have to recognize we’ve got this marvelous potential and really be energized to want to develop it for our sake. First, do not think not.

Then then I’m qualified to recognize we’re all in the same boat, and then I can be useful to others. You know? And, of course, it’s one step at a time. You don’t perfectly develop the wisdom when before you help others, but you you we’ve got to recognize. So therefore, that means we have a very a much kinder attitude towards ourself when we see our neurosis.

We’ve got to see our neurosis. If they’re causing my suffering, I have to identify them. But we ought to have you know, we have two it seems to be it seems to be have two main modes. When things go wrong and I get angry, then the first thing is you blame someone else. It’s not my fault.

Is it it’s his fault, we say. Or we have the other one, which is over exaggerating our bad qualities, and we have guilt and shame. I’m bad. You know? There’s a two there’s a two modes we tend to have, and these are both extremely unhealthy, extremely unhealthy for the Buddha.

I mean, for all of us, but Buddha runs with this whole approach. So we have to have this kindness towards ourselves and recognize that, you know, yes, I’m suffering. Yes, I’m miserable. Yes, I get depressed. Yes, this happens.

And don’t instead of I’m a bad person, but that’s what’s causing my pain. It’s the anger that’s causing my pain. It’s the depression, the jealousy, the low self esteem. This is so simple in a way. We we tend to be guilty and settled, you know, and then we all then we try to hide it.

But somehow, I mean, I remember when I worked with people in prison for many years, there’s an organization called Liberation Prison Project, which is still going, run by one of my colleagues now in Sydney, but that started back in about ninety six in the States when I was based there, and also it’s in Australia as well now. So I remember working with people on death row in Kentucky. And this one of the men there is a Buddhist, and he’s one of his he told me that that they had this old Catholic guy come to visit them and would share his his daughter’s rosary beads with the inmates. And this this man told his story that he his daughter had been raped and murdered, like, thirty years before that. You know?

So naturally, like most people, seems normal, he was out of his brain with grief, but rage and anger. You know? And like a lot of people, we tend to think, especially in situations like that, that you could never give up anger because you’d almost like you you you go against the person who was killed. You feel like it’s right to keep being angry. This is very deep in our bones, this assumption.

Or if indeed people have harmed us, we say, but I’m allowed to be angry. We always think it’s healthy. You know? It’s understandable. But but this man was very moving.

He said after thirty years, he became just beyond exhausted. He went back to mass. He became a Catholic again, and he start he let go of the anger, and he start to forgive. And he said what he realized was that his suffering wasn’t from the death and rape of his daughter. It was from his own rage.

And this is a simple point. You don’t need to be Buddha doesn’t own this stuff. He just runs with it. He has marvelous understandings of it. That’s all.

But it’s something I think it’s so instinctive in us to have this neurotic sense of I’m bad. We if you you’re angry or jealous or whatever it is, especially if your life is fairly reasonable, you think there’s no reason I shouldn’t be jealous. I shouldn’t be this. I shouldn’t be that. So we tend to become our own worst enemies as my mother used to say.

You know? We think I shouldn’t be like this. Well, the Buddha says join the club. We are like this. Okay.

He’s got his own explanations for why we are this way. You know, the the Buddha’s understanding of karma, he would say, we come into this life fully programmed with our tendencies, good and bad, which is one of the implications of you’re not the the handiwork of your mommy and deity. That’s why that’s a pretty powerful point for the Buddha. You know, if if again, in this culture, naturally, if I go to you as my therapist and tell you my problems because, you know, the view is I was made by mommy, because the view is my my mind is the brain, and I’m influenced by the DNA and the genes and the chemicals and and the past behavior, past events, that’s where we look for the source of the problem, you know, to see what happened to me and why it is out there for why I am the way I am now. Well, Buddha also says we can look back in the past, but into our own past, he would say.

But even more simple than that, this is a big neurotherapist business. He says, yeah. We’ve all got this stuff. You know? Again, join the club.

We all understand attachment, anger, fears, jealousy, low self esteem, blah blah. But he says, we don’t necessarily need to look at the past. Yes. Mommy might have been mean. The boyfriend might be horrible.

Yes. Your husband did leave you for a younger version. Yes. You understand your boss is horrible. This could be facts.

But and even and even change that. If you can, if you can change it, fantastic. But he says it won’t solve your problem. Because here, you know, this this is either shocking initially because it does sound like it’s blaming us, but there’s no concept in Buddhism about blame. There’s no view because there’s no view of a creator, and there’s no view that you’re the product of someone else’s handiwork.

There is no concept of blame and reward in Buddhism. It implies a blamer and a rewarder. But for the Buddha, there isn’t one. He says my mind is mine. I came fully programmed with all my own tendencies of being good at football, good at music, good at anger, good at love, whatever, since conception.

And that’s this. You know, other type days we’ll talk about maybe the weekend. You know? But this is assumed in Buddhism. So this actually, the experiential implications of this are very tasty because that means my mind is mine.

You know? And if I don’t understand it and I don’t know how to change it, then who will? But always thinking it’s out there that’s the main cause. You can’t you could get the husband to forgive you. You can get the husband to to I mean, you can forgive the husband for harming you.

You ask him to change. He even might change. The job the the boss might give his your job back. But in the end, that’s just the externals of the world. This is an intense point because everything is instinctively true for us that’s all out there.

The source of my happiness and the source of my suffering is out there, But he says it’s in here. And it’s not meaning in any cosmic way. He says, literally, the extent to which I am caught up in attachment, fear, low self esteem, depression, jealousy, anger, arrogance, you name it, is the extent to which I am suffering. And the extent to which I lessen that and grow compassion and empathy and wisdom, and this is really looked at it in immense detail in the Buddhist literature, you know, not just some cross your fingers and hope for the best, is the extent which I’m happy. Then we can see no matter what happens.

As our mothers would say, it’s a wash off a duck’s back. I mean, it’s easy to hear these words, but it’s so difficult. We all know this. And, again, it’s so powerful for me to use these extreme examples of people, let’s say, people in prison. You know, I remember reading about.

I didn’t meet this woman, but I read about her. I read her my memoir kind of briefly. She’d been on death row in Florida for seventeen years. She’d been hitching in Florida with a hippie with a hippie husband, hippie kids. They get a lift from two blokes.

The blokes get picked up by the coppers. The blokes kill the coppers and blame the hippies. So they put on their throat. You can only imagine the the torture of this. You can’t even imagine the torture.

She was there for seventeen years. They lost the kids. He even got executed. I mean, you can’t even conceive of the suffering. You know?

But she was this remarkable person. I don’t think she was a Buddha, but she yoga and things. She is just a strong person who she and she said after years, whatever it was, I finally realized I couldn’t change anything. I mean, you begin completely convinced because you’re innocent, you get out next day. That every step you go, it’s reinforced that you’re this evil monster, a cop killer.

You couldn’t wish for anything more evil, you know. And finally and this is the point. And I’ve got so many examples of this. When something is as dreadful as that. You there seems to be two options.

This is her point. You either go completely mad or as she said, I realized I could could not change anything, but they couldn’t take my mind from me. So I decided, I’m not a prisoner. I’m a monk. I’m not in a cell.

I’m in a cave. I mean, so easy to hear it. It’s so moving and poetic to hear it, which can you only imagine the nightmare, but the courage to get to that. And that actually is the essence of what Buddha is saying. Like I said, he just noted.

She’s not a Buddhist. We all know it, actually. We’re applying this to some extent every day. But he runs with this, all the Buddhist literature, the incredibly intense detailed descriptions of the way the mind functions, how it functions, what it is. It’s massive, you know, in the Buddhist literature.

But just some cross your fingers, cross your eyes and legs, and hope for the best and some hippie trippy feeling will come. I mean, I’m being a bit sarcastic, but there’s many cliched ideas about the Buddhist view of the mind, you know, but it’s phenomenal, the detail. And and because it’s my mind, and I’m meaning my thoughts, my feelings, my emotions, I can change them. I must. I can’t no one else can.

This one, for me, that was the most perfect example, an extreme example of often the best one. But the hardest job we’ll do. The hardest job. And why the Buddha view Buddha view is because we’re kind of addicted to the other one. We come into this life addicted to the view, addicted to this misconception that somehow it’s all out there.

Somehow it’s all out there. We we can see it in our materialist culture. This is reinforced. We don’t have you know, it’s not part of my education. I was Catholic.

I love being a Catholic. I was completely devoted to God, Our Lady, the saints, all the rest. You know? And I remember years later as a Buddhist putting a Catholic nun, an old she was old then, Catholic nun. It’s thirty years ago, helping her go to a a Buddhist retreat, giving her techniques and Buddhist books to read.

She’s been putting it by the Catholic, Catholic while the nuns who taught, you know, the the order of nuns who taught me. And she said this is she was so moved by it all. She said, we don’t have the view of the psyche like this in in my religion. She said that. I mean, started to write to god, and she became more devoted to god.

But she was able to utilize she got a lot she was able to use the tools from this Buddha’s perspective. You know? Because that is Buddha’s expertise. The mind is his expertise, how it functions, and how to and how to radically change it. Even change it a little bit, even though we can have confidence that I can change it is already incredible.

So this is the interesting point. When we develop our begin to develop our own potential, lessen the neurosis even a little bit, grow the goodness even a little bit, the first beneficiary is who do you think? You. It is obvious. You know?

It is obvious. And the and this is the thing. The more we can see we’re caught up in this misery. And, yes, the world might be horrible. People have terrible lives.

Terrible things happen to people. It’s true. Not saying it doesn’t happen. Mhmm. Mhmm.

But if we’re gonna have the courage like that woman, when you really can’t change that outside thing to know that you can change this, That’s the miracle. And often, we have to you know, often, gotta get wake up calls. All my friends in prison, they would often say, this is my wake up call, you know. And often, it’s only until bad things happen that we even try to make some changes. Because it’s easy for us to change things.

We can get a new handbag, a new cup of coffee, but it’s not the right one. So we keep look it keeps looking like we can get the things to make us happy. Kind of interesting. You know? Another point too, again, coming from my experience with people in prison.

Like, the very first person how this prison project started was in ninety six in when I was based in California, editing the magazine of the organization that Buddha House is part of, Mandala Magazine. And I got a letter with this young man on in a prison in California. He’s a young Mexican, eighteen. He told me he’d been in prison since in gangs since he’s eleven, in prison since he’s twelve, three life sentences when he was sixteen, tried as an adult. You know?

And he he was in his cell in this really intense prisons that they call permanent lockdown. It’s very common in around the world now. It used to be considered against human rights where you’re kept in your cell twenty three, twenty four hours a day. And so because this this California prison system is just it’s the gangs the gang mentality runs so much because the gangs, the the Mexican gangs, the black gangs, the white supremacist gangs, so Asian gangs is massive. You know?

So he was in this prison where virtually there were a couple of thousand of them in permanent lockdown in these cells where there were two men to a cell, pods of eight cells in your cell twenty three hours a day. So like a nightmare, you know, neon lights all the time. The noise, he said, is like being bedlam all the time. Maybe three hours in the middle of the night where it’s kinda quiet. In this old twenty three hours a day, you’re in your orange jumpsuit.

The food I mean, you can’t believe the disgusting food. So so you’ll get skinny and get sick because the food is so appalling. They’ve got you’re allowed ten books. No hardback because you’re gonna whack your cell mate. The inside of a pen because you’d stab the self mate with the hard part.

It’s really intense minimal life, you know, living like this many full years until they die. So this is Arturo, this young man. He’s in this situation. He’s been in a gang since a little boy, and the gangs you know, you’ve had this gang warfare in the prisons themselves. You need to to keep up your reputation.

So he’s in this scenario. And, of course, he’s an intelligent boy, he’s got a good heart, actually. He started reading, and luckily, they’ve got a very nice Liberian there. You know? So he found a book of Lam Rim.

And he was very moved by the talk about compassion. So Mandala’s address was there. You know? He wrote. That was the first letter that started this prison project.

You know? But I heard of this. Once they you know, within a year, I had forty people writing. It was all word-of-mouth. And so we kept sending books, and the whole thing grew from that because the need was very clear.

These people dying for something, dying for things that have no money, no no no no no money, no no anything, no possession. So to have even one book is like a miracle. You know? So eventually, then we we would start sending them Mandala magazine. They’d read about Lama Zopa.

They’d read his teachings, so they’d start to write to him. And Lama Zopa being very kind would write eighteen page letters of advice. He was so kind. You know? So one the things he’d often say to these prisoners, and to us on the face of it sounds quite shocking, almost patronizing, he’d say things like this, and this is the point the Buddha’s making.

You know, he said, your prison is nothing in comparison with the inner prison of ordinary people. I guess that’s us. It’s a bit shocking. The inner prison, the prison of attachment, the prison of anger, the prison of jealousy, the prison of low self esteem, etcetera, etcetera. And this is Buddha’s point too.

When you study Buddhism in more depth and you look into his whole way of presenting suffering and its causes, the subtle level of suffering. The usual way we talk about suffering is when the bad things happen. We all know that. But he would say that’s just the tip of the iceberg. The the more fundamental core suffering and its causes is these neuroses.

And this again, it’s extensive explained in the literature, not just some belief system. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Not like that.

Great detail. And so taking this on board as a person who’s, you know, using this as your working hypothesis, you gotta put your money where your mouth is. That means you gotta learn to listen to your own thoughts, understand and hear them crystal clear, which is extremely hard because we’ve never done that. You know? And they run like crazy.

We know that. There’s a I mean, even I think in Buddhist psychology, they talk about there’s, like, sixty four moments in a finger snap. I mean, look at the clocks we have now. There’s mini clocks, you know, a thousand seconds and a a thousand mini bits in a second. And even psychologists say we have, like, a thousand thoughts a second.

So much is going on in this mind of ours. And Buddha’s view is we can learn to know it, unpack it, unravel it, deconstruct these thoughts because we’re talking about thoughts here, and reconfigure this mind of ours. As Lama Zopa says, we can mold our mind into any shape we like. This is the point the Buddha is making. So this is often why the cliched idea of being a Buddhist, gotta be mindful.

Close your eyes, walk slowly, talk slowly. Well, thank you. If that’s being a Buddhist, I am not interested. I’m clearly a failure. I mean, with the very beginning when I met, you know, met the Tibetan lamas, Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa in Queensland at Chenrezig Institute, the the first of the centers they started here back in the seventies.

You know? I remember hearing about meditation, and I thought what a boring idea. I couldn’t believe it. To sit still with your eyes closed, I was completely not interested. I promise.

But I really like the idea of knowing my mind. And I didn’t see the checkers sit with your eyes closed to see your mind. It’s raging on all day. Right? You know?

So some of us are more active energy. I’m one of them. So you you work with this stuff in a way that suits you. You know? You have to be I remember Dalai Lama saying one time in Los Angeles when somebody asked a question about mindfulness or something.

He said, I don’t know about slow, mindful, patient. I’m mad of action, he said. That’s what I want. Then I thought, great. So you’re gonna be a busy person with a busy mind.

You see, one of the biggest misunderstandings, you gotta slow your mind down. Excuse me. You gotta slow down the neurotic parts of the mind. Grow speed up the good parts, please. It’s, you know, it’s not it’s a misconception to think you’re supposed to make all the thoughts go away, first of all.

That’s hilarious. Or to make more or, you know, just to become more slow. It is helpful to calm your mind down when you’re berserk. Of course, is. It’s very reasonable.

But the point is we have to know our mind well, listen to all these different thoughts. It’s like a big soup of emotion right now, isn’t it? You can’t tell one bit to another. You know? So, yes, we do need to develop a skill to hear to emphasize what’s happening here, you know, not only what’s happening there.

And that’s why having some kind of meditation practice, and there are many kinds of meditations, where you do literally learn to be more introspective. It’s a skill to learn, to be introspective, not in a spacey way, but to be when you’re driving the car, you’re not just noticing the cars, but then the one that leaps in front of you, you freak out. No. If you’re aware of what’s happening in your mind as much as you’re aware of the car in front of you, then you’re, you know, you’re since you got up this morning. You’re feeling slightly agitated.

So you’re watching yourself like a hawk, and you’re catching the thoughts, and you’re arguing with yourself. You’re being your own therapist. So when the car does come, you don’t have a mental breakdown. Now this is essentially what we’re saying. Paying attention to what goes on in here.

It’s not a cosmic thing. It’s a hard job. Because instinctively, don’t want to change this. You’d rather change that. So it’s a it’s a very hard job to do.

We gotta be convinced you want to do it, and then slowly, slowly becoming ever more familiar with all the intricacies of our own thoughts and feelings and emotions. It’s not in its nature unknowable. For the Buddha in its nature, it’s knowable. And because it’s my thoughts, I have to know them. I have to know them.

So use any method you like. Yes. Go to a therapist. Have that person who’s a good person be a sounding board for you to hear yourself. That’s their job.

But we’ve gotta hear ourselves in the end. We gotta know our thoughts and have confidence and conf and and and self respect and recognize that my neuroses are breaking my heart. You know? This is gonna be the basis. Then you’re so happy to change yourself.

Not because you should because somebody said, which is the typical guilt mode we have. That’s just a burden that drags us down. You know? Oh, what time? What time?

Time is it? Oh, I’ve been here about three hours, it feels like. So now I think a few people have to talk to me. You’re here to ask questions. Any old questions you like, get the conversation going.

Lots of things come up then. So ask me any questions. I have my hot water in here. So how long did it take you then as you said you don’t like to sit still, but you have to be introspective? How long did it take you with practice to recognize your own thoughts, catch them, learn your own mind, and how long did you have to sit still to do that?

Well, it’s I want I want you know, I I’m not saying I’ve got very far with it, but I’ve got confidence in the process. I mean, I’ve got confidence in the process. If I compare where you have to go, long way to go, and that’s fine. I’m up. You know?

So it’s I can’t answer so simply. It’s full ongoing process. You know? But I can say I can say one thing. It took me it took me years to even it took me a long time even being a Buddhist to really have confidence that say, for example, anger, which was one of my main habits, that anger was not my middle name.

So I think it’s just this ongoing you know, I do practices every day now. You know, I do my things, but even still, I might not sit sit down. I put more on my iPod, and, like, I walk around or I drop, you know, when I’m driving. So I’ve got these certain practice that I like to do every day that I’m supposed to do, which includes prayers and things. But, you know, there’s a kind of meditation that’s called concentration that is helpful to do, and that’s you gotta be still to do that, you know, because you gotta try and make the thoughts.

You gotta try and focus on certain things. I I mean, for myself, I don’t do much of that one. It’s often what people think of being a Buddhist. That sounds a bit shocking. You know?

Like, are you a Buddhist? You’re not mindful? Well, mindful actually means never mind the word that. It doesn’t matter about that. It’s there’s many ways to learn to be aware of what’s going on in your own head.

And, I mean, being quiet means even just sitting in a room with not having forty two people talking about you. You know? You can be sit there and you can but it’s the key one is to recognize that it is the anger is mine. Starting point has to be this. I think this is a major part.

It’s and that’s a slow process. And when I first heard the Buddhist teachings, there was something about it. That is this essential point that my mind was mine and I could change it. I had con I I I wanted to have confidence in that. That’s the starting point.

So as soon as you decide it’s it’s it’s a possibility, then already you start noticing your thoughts more clearly. And in the beginning often, you think you’re getting worse. In fact, they say one of the signs of success when you start to work on your mind is you are you do think you’re getting worse, but you’re not. You’re just noticing them more. So I think the first thing is to have this theory.

It’s possible to notice my thoughts. Even if you don’t do you know, sitting down for even a few minutes in the morning before you go off to work can be very excellent to help us do this. But it’s the determination and the confidence that I want to know my own mind. That’s not secret. It just but as long as I don’t think I want it, as long as I’d rather blame other people, as long as I feel like I’m a victim, as long as I feel it’s not fair, as long as I feel it’s not my fault, as long as I feel it’s it’s it’s me, it’s it’s the genes or it’s the health or it’s the time.

We oh, I was it was I was suffering. I was I had a headache today. I couldn’t help it. We’re always trying to get ourselves off the hook because we have this guilt, and we don’t like being blamed. So they have this courageous attitude.

Yes. Life is difficult. Makes it difficult to see your mom when you’ve a headache. It makes it difficult when someone’s shouting at you not to get angry. But we’ve gotta continually have the the confidence that it’s possible that if I that my mind is mine and I can know it and change it.

That’s the main one. And then, of course, when you do develop meditation skills, you can get to such a levels. Wow. That’s fantastic. But what I’m getting at is, it’s not as if it’s necessary.

Each person’s different also. It’s not as if so, like, one of my friends has been able to this the same time as me. She’s gotta sit down quiet and sort things out. But I might go for a walk and sort things out of my head. You know?

Each of us does that every day. We’re always sorting things out. We’re always having discussions with ourselves, aren’t we? We’ll we’ll be dead we’ll all be killing each other if we didn’t. It’s likely we can sort things out.

So we we’re already doing this actually. But he or Buddha runs with this skill is all I’m saying. And there’s many other techniques in certainly Tibetan Buddhism that you do that enable you to do this more and more. And it’s like any skill. You just get better at it in your own way.

Do you see what I’m saying? Are we communicating? Yeah. Good, sweetheart. Hang on second, darling.

Somebody behind there. Yes. Me? You. Yes.

Yes. So I I understand from what you’re saying that the Buddhism doesn’t look on depression as an illness. Is that correct? Well, that’s very interesting point. I would say that Buddha, if he had that term mental illness, we heard then we coined that phrase, haven’t we?

This is a beautiful phrase, and I’m not kidding now. He would say, we are all mentally ill. I’m not being cliched. It’s a question of degree. So in our culture, we might call anger a mental illness because we we get mad at the person who gets angry.

But we would say an illness is depression because we found something physical that’s related to it. Would you agree with that? So there’s no overtone of blame here when I say that being jealous, it’s a mental illness. Being angry is a mental illness. Being depressed is a mental illness.

They’ve got equal status for the Buddha. So they’re all mental illnesses. But we use it in a very kind of very powerful way. It’s like, oh, it’s a mental illness. Therefore, it’s not my fault because we always feel guilty by having it.

Whereas here, it’s a question of recognizing it, owning it, understanding it. Are we communicating a bit or not about that point? This is then in the category of feelings and depression is in in the feelings such as jealousy and anger. What it would put in the same status? Yes.

Diabetes is an entirely different Diabetes will be the physical. Exactly. See, the thing is we we can see, can’t we? Does it say? We can see, can’t we?

We’ve got a body, and then we’ve got a mind. And we can see, you know, if if you just get too hot one day, your mind gets a bit feverish. If you know if so if you have anger, look at the per look at the person’s body. I mean, just look at a person who’s being angry. They’re having actually, they’re having a mental breakdown.

The eyes are as wide as sources. Spits coming out the mouth, completely irrational hysterical words are coming out of the mouth. But their heart is beating so fast. I mean, that is a serious mental breakdown, but we go, oh, she’s just being angry. So if everything we think and does affect the body, there’s an incredibly intimate relationship.

It’s really obvious, isn’t it? So depression, we because we found certain physical components that we I don’t know what I don’t know how to describe it. Then we found a medicine that can help those physical components calm down. Isn’t it the the balance of chemicals or something? Is that what people say?

So then we then we tend to say because we found a physical thing that relates, that can change the depression, then we tend to think, therefore, it’s a physically based disease. But not for the Buddha. It’s all mental. Depression is internalized anger. I mean, when you go to this, I’ll try to explain.

It’s quite subtle. But it’s it’s internalized aversion. It’s internalized aversion anger. Instead of a person vomiting out, which is my style, another person when things go wrong, it would gradually build up internally until eventually you can’t get out of bed one morning and you feel hopeless, everything else is gray and useless. So the worst view is entire about depression is is quite different then because you can’t you can’t cure yourself of diabetes, but you can of depression before you It’s a really interesting way you put it.

Yes. That’s you could say that. Yes. Definitely. You could say that.

Well, I mean, yeah, you could say that because the diabetes is a plain physical thing. That’s exactly right. But depression is a mental state, and it’s affected by the body. But then my goodness, so is anger. Look at it.

You know? Yeah. And and it’s interesting because if you go to a Tibetan doctor, they have the same model of mind and body being interdependent. It’s just they’ve got a very different view of the body. It’s a bit like the Chinese one.

They talk about subtle physical, subtle channels and air energy, and she’ll feel Tibetan doctor will feel your pulses, and she’ll feel the imbalance of the physical, which is impacting upon your mind. So she’ll give you not a set of serotonin, she’ll not Prozac or whatever it is. You know? She’ll give you herbal medicine, which will calm the physical energies down, which then impact upon your mind and and and get you to be less angry or less neurotic or less depressed. So there’s this huge interdependence there, and they do affect each other.

But the point you’re making is very clear. That’s the Buddhist approach. Yes. Are we communicating? Yeah.

So now that we’ve discussed it, shall I just explain try to explain a bit more how depression is internalized anger? It’s a way of saying it. Yeah. And to to understand that, we have to understand this this the the the Buddhist the the term attachment was such a cute word. We hear it thrown about and read Buddhist literature all the time, attachment.

You know? But it’s a massive, it needs really immense understanding of clearly see how it functions. The Buddha would say it’s like the it’s the default mode in all of us. It’s just natural that we’ve got this deeply instinctive state of mind called attachment, but it’s multifaceted. Okay?

So that the deepest level of it we’re born with this person. We’re conceived with it. First second of conception. It and depends on the person, of course, the degree. It’s first kind of the first manifestation of attachment is enormous dissatisfaction.

You look at this one. No matter what I get, it’s never enough. No matter what I do, it’s never enough. Never satisfied, always wanting something more. So the obvious first level that this manifests at is the physical, and the classic one is the food.

You know? You never feel full. Always want something more. And as my my mother would say, the suffering of this one is as she’d say, these wonderful things that mothers will tell us, the more you get, the more you want. So this attachment is is primordially deep inside us.

It’s the first energy is the one of dissatisfaction. Naturally, if you dissatisfied, and it’s not a subconscious thought, it’s like a deeply held feeling. And the trouble is we believe it’s true. And one of the ways this manifest is that I am no good. This is this is the irony of the state of mind.

I’m hopeless. The more dissatisfied you are, the more miserable you are, the more you’re missing something. Therefore, I am no good. So okay. This first level, it then manifests as hankering after something.

Of course, if you’re dissatisfied, something’s missing, isn’t it? So the obvious first level is the things we see. That’s the objects of the senses. Food is a typical one. It could be money.

It could be it could be looking beautiful. It could be music. It could be, you know, it could be sex. It could be any of the obvious objects of the senses depending on our tendencies. We can see this.

And this and so then this attachment that’s right. Manifest dissatisfaction, then craving, and then you manipulate to get the object. And then this is the other one that makes it so difficult to give it up because one of the functions of attachment is it makes the extent to which is in your mind, it makes the object look incredibly more delicious than it really is. So then you manipulate to get it. And then the next level of attachment is this sheet, and this is the one that’s beginning anyway, the key that the is the massive expectation that when I get the object, I’ll get happy.

So we can go for I love it. Yes. She said, I can tell you about attachment for one whole year. We will never begin to understand it. It’s so nuanced.

It goes to such deep levels until we really start to look inside. Okay. And the point I’m getting here is this. What’s your name, please? Mine.

Amy. Amy. Amy. Amy. Amy.

Thank you, Amy. So okay. This default mode that runs the universe, but it’s this attachment. Dogs have got it. Ants have got it.

Giraffes have got it. humans have got it. It’s a natural thing. So natural that the normal way it manifests in daily life in our culture, we just consider it normal. You know?

So the the this attachment is constantly there, and it’s also got an aspect of always thinking about now this and now that now do this now. It’s got it’s always looking forward to something. Always looking forward to now get up, I’ll go to work, I’ll go to hell, I’ll do this, have my lunch, I’ll go home, I’ll go talk to the hubby, get up, go to sleep, get up, get up, do this, now do that. You have say my point constantly, constantly, constantly, endlessly looking forward to something. Now listen to this.

That’s attachment energy. Now when attachment doesn’t get what it wants and this is a thousand times a day, guess what that’s called? That’s called aversion. This bare bone state of mind that is the basis of either anger, volatile punch in the nose, which is my style and my life, and that’s easy to see. You know?

Or because you’re a quiet style person, you don’t vomit out what you think and that’s marvelous. You should be delighted you like that. Every time your attachment doesn’t do what it wants and that can be the tiniest thing in the day, we just don’t notice it. You know, we drop something. Look at how we feel.

Oh, should I drop something? You’re upset, irritated, annoyed? Do we not? The tiniest thing is meaning what this means is the default assumption of attachment is that I I I must get what I want every millisecond. It’s an assumption so deep.

So the millisecond, you’re just doing the dishes and you drop something. It sort of stops you in your tracks because you’d rather just do the dishes without being interrupted so we get upset. Well, that’s a mild version of anger. You drive on the road, a car jumps in, you get upset. The red light comes, you get upset.

The assumption is attachment is all the time wanting the nice things. Attachment is like a junkie that only wants the nice things. It can only bear the nice things. So a thousand times a day, a person who’s got more volatile anger aversion, you can see them. They up and down on the yo yo a thousand times a day.

Get angry, they shout, they yell, then, you know, the next minute the green light comes and they’re all happy. Now let’s say the person’s got not angry energy, but we’ve all got attachment, and attachment will be thwarted a thousand times a day. But that other person is like when they drop something, it’ll be sort of, oh, dread. Or we put yourself down. Criticize.

I shouldn’t have done that because it’s loud. The the red light comes, and it’s like aversion arises, but it goes in. So gradually built up thwarted attachment becomes for that person despair, hopeless. Everything’s gray and useless. And listen to this.

There’s nothing to look forward to. That’s what attack that’s what depression manifests as, isn’t it? So you become like inert. It’s internalized, constant, thwarted attachment. So to really understand anger, in other words, and and depression, the way we’re talking here, or the bare bones state of mind called aversion is we have to understand what drives it, which is this constant neediness for all the good things all the time.

We’re not even aware of it. It’s weird, if you have a depressed tendency. It’s easy to see when the person who gets angry because she just didn’t get what she wanted. You know? Like, little the kids, little people who shout the millisecond they don’t do what they want.

That I didn’t get what I wanted. That’s attachment. That’s attachment. Buddhism will got it. Join the club.

And all the others are on the basis of it. But because when you get angry, and that’s why we criticize it, because you make trouble to other people. You hurt other people. Depressed people at least don’t hurt other people. I mean, they might be depressed to be might be boring to be around, but they don’t hurt other people.

So if you’re one of them, be happy you don’t hurt other people. You’re hurting yourself, though. But we don’t think we’re hurting ourselves. And we don’t and then we think because we found these you know, we found there’s a chemical thing that relates to it. I mean, the lucky drug companies are making a fortune.

Can you imagine they’ve got a drug to help anger calm down? I mean, the whole world, they’re making multitrillionaires. You get my point. But for the Buddha, it’s fascinating. Your point, Amy.

This is the point. The states of mind is and these are so subtle. They’re so deeply ingrained in us. And I’m I’m not trying to be arrogant about Buddhism, but the the the the subtlety and the more nuanced level that Buddhist psychology enables you to get to in observing the workings of your own mind. Then we can really begin to see the endless this profoundity of this attachment, the deepest of these assumptions that I must get what I want every second.

Are we communicating? Can’t recognize what I’m saying? Does that make sense, Amy? No. It’s very hard to see.

You know? It’s a thousand times a day that a tatting won’t get it once. And it’s only when it’s explosive that we notice it. You know? That it builds up.

But we’re not paying attention. Eventually, you can’t cope. You gotta go to a therapist. So it takes time. Somebody, you’re here.

Put you who who had the hand up? You put you got your next, darling. In a minute. This yes. Oh.

Go. Well, whoever had their hand up before you did. Oh. How do you explain the entire change is important for you? Okay.

Okay. Okay. Buddha’s big picture view, his own remember this, his own direct experiential findings. It’s not just speculation. It’s not just an idea.

He didn’t make it up. It’s his own direct findings. So take that as you know, I’m not asking you to believe this, by way. I’m just telling you the way they say it. Is that your consciousness is not physical.

But if you’re not the handiwork of mummy and you’re not the handiwork of a superior being, right, and that you’re conscious you gotta get that. If you then check your consciousness because all your thoughts, feelings, and emotions, you see would you imagine if you had perfect memory, you could track your consciousness back like a river of mental moments right back to the first second of conception, wouldn’t you think? Okay. Okay. The first second when you popped out the mummy’s womb?

Okay. The the indication that there’s consciousness or mind in here is that you’re not dead, isn’t it? I mean, the difference in your dead body and live body would be what Buddha would call the mind of your consciousness. There’s gonna be no life in that body, would there? If there’s no okay.

Never mind. I’m not sure. Keep going. Keep going. Your consciousness is your thoughts and feelings and emotions, unconscious, subconscious, entire spectrum of your inner being, and it’s conjoined with this body right now.

Okay? So the Buddhist view and the more esoteric teachings, they talk about we’ve got gross consciousness, which is all your sensory in dependence upon your eyeballs nearly is working. Right? You’ve got the ability to cognize things with the senses. And also your mental comp, all your thoughts and your comp and your intellect and things.

All of these are characteristics of this mental continuum. They talk like a so think of it as like a river of mental moments. You know, all the thoughts and feelings of today, if you track them back second by second, you know you’d end up till yesterday, wouldn’t you? If you track yourself back your memory, your perfect memory, you’d end up a day before. Then you go back another day before that, before you know it’s your little girl.

Would you accept that? It’s okay. So think of your river of mental moments as one part of you and your body is another, but they’re conjoined. What’s your name? Briony.

Briony. Briony. I know it’s so funny when I’m in America such a lot. I hear Australians. I gotta go, can you repeat that, please?

I saw an Australian movie one time about this bunch of gangsters in Hollywood, and there were subtitles, and I needed the subtitles. I was shocked. Okay. I’ll just tell you what Bruce is. Okay.

Your consciousness is your thoughts and feelings and emotions. If you track these back, accepting this concept here of a continuity of thoughts and feelings and emotions, your body at the same time, you eventually, you gotta just get right back to it when you came out your mommy’s womb. Well, we were you’re clearly conscious then because you probably came out shouting like the rest of us. Would you agree? So that’s probably an indication that there’s a consciousness there.

There’s there’s mind there, there’s feelings if, you know, when you came out, you shouted because it was painful, probably. Wouldn’t you agree with that? That’s an indication there’s mind in your body. Consciousness. Consciousness using Buddha’s view.

So you keep tracking back and thinking, where did my mind begin? Well, you know, if your consciousness was there when you came out of mommy’s room shouting, we have to deduce it came from a previous moment before that. That seems reasonable, wouldn’t you think? You don’t know. Say I’m I’m a bit critical.

You could you’re supposed to be critical. I know. But you gotta but listen to me. Okay. You you can’t hear this briony briony briony bri as the Americans say briony.

You can’t hear this if you don’t take it as a hypothesis, and you’re very intelligent. So you so don’t try to argue with it in your mind. I’m not. Good. Okay.

But you said you’re critical. That means arguing. Were you asking if I accepted? No. I did not.

No. I did not ask you that. Do you see what I’m saying? I asked. You take the hypothesis I’m saying.

Can you imagine what I’m trying to say is what I said. Not accept. K. Good. See if you can do.

So your consciousness is its thoughts and feelings and emotions like a river of mental moments. You go right back. You keep checking when, you know, the all that energy of emotions and feelings that was indicated when you shouted coming out to mommy’s womb. That’s an indication there’s consciousness consciousness there. So where did that come from, you think?

Did it begin at that second? Well, how could it? It has to have come from a previous moment. And then you track those thoughts and feelings back to a previous second. Before you know it, you get back to three months in the womb, two months in the womb, one month in the womb, and then you get back to the first second of conception, wouldn’t you?

So then the second before that, we know the egg was in mommy’s body. Right? And the sperm was in deity’s body. You know that, don’t you? Buddha would agree with that.

Okay. So the Buddha would say that your consciousness was at this where was the previous moment of your consciousness? This river of mental moments that we’re tracking back from the second. That would have to come from a previous moment of itself, which if it were not physical, would be perfectly reasonable. So you just have to take that hypothesis.

So then you go back in a more than a few weeks before that Buddha says that was in a previous body. It’s in the literature. it is vast. It’s all there for you if anyone’s interested. The point is this, though.

In the bigger picture in Buddhism, utterly necessary to look into this. It imply it this it without understanding karma, without understanding reincarnation, this concept, this presentation that consciousness is not a product of a superior being or not a product of your parents. And you probably had one or other of those views, would you? Yeah. Well, unless there’s another one, I’m interested.

What’s the other view? Is there another possibility? Oh, okay. Okay. So then the the from the big picture point of view, yes, the Buddhist would have to have a view, take on board the hypothesis because that gives you the energy to want to even want to change my mind.

Because if I am the product of god excuse me. If I’m the I I want to gods a bit bit bit If I have the even god. You do? Oh, okay. Well, then this I see now.

Okay. So you are the product of God? I’m not sure. But you’re a sort of agnostic. Based on just my own experience.

I see that experience of God. You’re about empirical evidence and my epistemology is like If you’re rational. Well, no. That’s no. Okay.

Well, what is irrational? I know. Know. Know. Anyway, to take on board, if you for me, being a Buddhist, I’ve taken I’ve decided to jump in the deep end, and Buddhist worldview is my working hypothesis that I use to explain to me who I am, why I am, where why I got into this life with anger or being good at music or being or why indeed Hitler or why indeed mother Teresa or why indeed anybody.

You understand? So the Buddhist view of karma is that every millisecond, which is fitting completely with the Buddhist explanation of continuity of consciousness. Every millisecond of what brow Brahoni is, her tendencies, her kind her kindness, her love, her compassion, her negativity, whatever she’s got, unless she’s already perfect, but let’s assume you’re like the rest of us. You’ve got a bit of the other ones too. All of these tendencies whether whatever they are, you came with these fully programmed for the first, second, and conception.

Now if you’re a materialist, you’d also agree, but you track them back to mommy and daddy and grandpa going back to the monkeys, wouldn’t you? If you’re a materialist. And if you’re a Christian, then you track the good ones back to god and the bad ones back, I don’t know whom. I don’t understand the Christian teaching and how come you become a naughty person. Because if he only made you at that second, I find it quite difficult argument actually.

Never mind that. But the Buddhist one is your your body and mind your body came from mommy and daddy, no problems. But your consciousness, the livingness of by only her her potential, her goodness, her badness, are all these tendencies in her consciousness that can only track themselves back to previous moments of those. And then before long, you’d find your Buddha would say in a previous body and a previous and so on and so forth. So in the big picture point of view, a Buddhist would take on board this hypothesis because it would explain to you how come you’ve got these tendencies.

And therefore, knowing that yours and not the product of mommy and daddy because my feeling is that I’m the product of mommy and daddy. They’re they’re the boss. That should be his worst product, like, the worst view I’ve ever imagined. That means it’s like sort of Frankenstein is monster. That was like a pro monster.

Frankenstein made him. But suddenly, we sort of think, mommy and daddy are these two psychos and mean, and they and they produce some psycho child, and then they told me I’m responsible. Excuse me. Okay. I thought I’d talk.

Apparently, you don’t ever criticize. Italians have the rudest words to say about God. We don’t blame God normally, but the Italians do apparently. And then the Argentinian told me that they’re even worse than the Italians. Anyway, yes, from the big picture point of view, but being a Buddhist, you can be a one percent Buddhist.

You can take from this. I mean, that Catholic Nana put into retreat. She loves certain techniques. You know? Anyway, I’m just writing on.

Does it really help you? Oh, massively. It’s it’s the it’s the view, the the view of karma, which is that every millisecond Buddha says every millisecond of what my mind does, every millisecond, two things of what I think and feel and do and say is programming my consciousness. Every millisecond, I follow whatever is there. I program my own consciousness.

It leaves seeds in my consciousness, will not go astray, and then that produces my future experiences. I am the cause of my future experiences, and my present is the fruit of my past. It’s hardly rocket science. If you’re really good at piano, you’ve been practicing for ten years, you’re not surprised that you’re good at it. You programmed your mind with music.

You know? You programmed yourself every day. We call it learning. So the Buddha would say from the first thing I can expect is inception, if I can take on board at least the hypothesis that I brought my own tendencies with me. Not mommy, not deity.

They might be also good at the things I’m good at. But my own tendencies are mine that for me being a Buddhist now, having always blamed everybody else is a stupendous one because I now become accountable for what’s there. And when I’m accountable for it and I know why it’s there, then I can change it. Not fear. Why am I like this?

Why do good things happen? Why do bad things happen? We’re usually in a state of horror because we don’t have any explanation for why bad things happen. Buddha has all these explanations, so I’m taking those on board as my hypothesis. So it helps me hugely because it leads me I can I’m in charge of the process.

I can change it. I can change it. That’s the Buddhist approach. So for me, I find it immensely helpful. And that in the big picture point of view, especially the Tibetan Buddhist one, where they study all this stuff in the Tibetan monastic system, you know, this would be the usual approach.

So was taking it as a hypothesis. I’m not a hurry to prove it. As I access subtle levels in my mind, the Buddha would say through meditation, I’ll develop clairvoyance. It’s a natural state where I can see the past and see the future, and I can prove. Because this is the point about the Buddha.

If all these words that I’m speaking here reincarnation karma blah are from Buddha’s experience, and he was a regular guy. Well, the deduction is if he could see it, I could see it. Are you seeing my point here? And that also gives me confidence. You get that point I’m making, Briony?

It is not revelation. It’s not a belief system in that sense. I’ve gotta take it on board as a hypothesis, which means have confidence in it because I can’t prove it yet. But the confidence in it you see something else interesting point. It’s a good point.

Thank you for your question. It seems to me, if let’s say, use the acupuncture analogy, Like, you know, when I heard about it first in the fifties and sixties, it was the weirdest I’ve ever heard. Needles in people. Stick a needle in, you get better. It’s like complete superstition if we compare it with the the allopathic system, isn’t it?

So then you say you keep hearing about it, and you think, oh, it’s a possibility. And then you think, I’ve got to study this stuff now. Well, first, you’d have to take your hypothesis. There’s a meridian in there. You can’t see it, but you got you can’t study it until you take the hypothesis that there is such a thing as meridians.

But this is my point, I think. If acupuncture is a valid system, look at some weird wacky few ideas isolated with no logic. If it is a valid coherent if it’s a valid system, it needs to be first intellectually coherent. You have to be able to intellectually present it as a as a hypothesis even before you put a needle in anybody. You didn’t pass your exam, it seems to me, if it’s valid.

So that that would seem to be any system like this the same. It has to be coherent intellectually first. Because you can’t play like Bach overnight. You gotta first take on board the possibility that you can play like Bach, and then you don’t put all these weird little notes on a piece of paper that looks completely esoteric, That represents that sound coming out of the piano. There’s an awful lot of thinking to do first.

We we call this scientific. We call it rational. Buddha agreed. His level of what we can cognize is more subtle is subtle than what we think we can cognize. Do understand my point?

Any more questions? Yes. Back there. Oh, I’ve got this situation where my thoughts are going between aversion and Join the club, darling. With with regard to a particular person.

That’s normal. I understand. Three years, and I hate it. Oh, darling. Three years.

Yeah. Oh, sweetheart. That’s it’s difficult. How do I just get rid of it? So Don’t just get rid of it, darling.

It’s just you don’t just get rid of it. You can get rid of it, but it’s really hard work. Yeah. Have you improved slightly after three years, or is it worse? Yeah.

Yeah. It’s improved. I was I was absolutely outrageously angry initially. That does not mean to you, basically. Sorry?

Yes. Yes. That’s something mean. Yeah. Virtually sociopathic.

Yeah. What, darling? Virtually sociopathic. Okay. Good.

Yeah. Was hard. So we all we understand what she says. Right? We might not have they might not be sociopathic, but people do mean things to us.

We all agree. Yeah. Good. So then tell me the process tell me the progress you’ve made. Well Just give tell us your thinking.

Well, I don’t I don’t wanna do nasty things with car anymore. I can’t put you down. Stand up. I don’t wanna do nasty things with car anymore. Excuse me.

Fucker his car. Actually, like, writing horrible things to it. Well, I mean, you don’t sound very bad to me. You sound very mild. Well I’m on good.

Bad to me. I know what he’s done. You’re not as bad as you think. I’ve been a million times worse than I was a Buddhist. I wasn’t ripping from limb to limb.

It wasn’t that bad. Oh my god. Well, you’re easy then. Easy. Easy then.

But, yeah, how do you get away from it? That’s really Well, you’re already doing it. You’re listening. Okay. Just keep standing up.

It’s very helpful discussion. You can see you got to the theory that you can change your thoughts. You get that? Yeah. And you you can see already you are changing your thoughts.

Would you agree? Yeah. So that should give you courage. No? Mhmm.

So you’re asking how to do but you’re already doing it. You’re less mad at this person. Yeah. So then But is that just time, though? Is it No.

Darling, it’s not. No. Because we just bury sometimes and all yuck stays there. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. Isn’t it? Yeah. So I think there are two things. The first is the wisdom wing Mhmm.

Which is learning to recognize what you’re telling, what you’re saying, that all these unhappy thoughts are breaking your heart. You accept that part? See, that’s a girl, you can’t realize that that is a major, major, major step. As Lama Zopa says, not the vast majority of all humans on this earth have no idea that what goes on in their mind plays any role at all. In other words, most people buy into the story as absolute truth, and that’s why they go mad and kill each other.

So you are doing immense progress already because you already know these unhappy thoughts are breaking your heart. So, darling, just keep you already made so much progress, so stop waiting for it all to go away. It’s this stuff takes time, sweetheart. And so you’re doing the major work. You are knowing it’s your own mind.

You are knowing you can change it, and you are changing it. So part of the thing is also here, sweetheart, is this, that you’ve done so much work already. You’ve got to rejoice in that, but know this anger and this hurt, whatever words you use for it, they might not go completely away for a long time. But it’s a bit like you you’ve you’ve already subdued them to such a point. You now have to have the courage to recognize they’re still there, but they’re under control.

They’re not running the show. And, darling, be brave and be happy with that. You know? Really, you’re doing more what you’re way more better than you really think you are. You’ve done incredible progress.

So if you’d rejoice in that and not keep putting yourself down because you still got these bad thoughts, be and know they just so, like, I always think about my thoughts as my roommates. So you still got these two wretched roommates in there, all these three, all these twenty seven in relation to this person, but they’re much more subdued. Let them just be in their room. Don’t be scared of them, this part of yourself. You’ve gotta recognize it for what it is.

That’s aversion. That’s hurt. That’s jealousy. Use it like a workshop to learn about your mind and let them be there. And the other part of you, the good part, the wise part, that’s getting stronger.

That’s get and that’ll bring more and more contentment and less and less fear. So the main part is you think you should have been rid of them, that’s why you’re miserable. Do not think that way. And then the other one is the compassion win. Do you have any thought of compassion?

I’m just asking. I’m gonna ask you to have any, but I’m asking. Yeah. This person’s obviously a bit wacko. Yeah.

They harm themselves. Would you accept that they’re harming themselves brutally? I think they are. That’s right. If you’re okay.

Yeah. If your unhappiness is harming you, guess what their unhappiness is doing to them. Yeah. So you got from that point of view, even if it objectively realize that, that he’s completely destroying himself or herself. And but don’t rush to compassion before you’re ready for it.

Let it be. You know? Yeah. This stuff takes time, darling. Yeah.

We’ve got I mean, the Buddhist view would be we’ve got very strong history with some people from past lives. This is the karmic one. Buddhist explaining the Buddhist view, Breoni. Yeah. Lama Zopa is Australian.

Is that what? Oh, not Breoni. Briony. I know she I’ve talked to her that too. Okay.

How do you say how do you say it again? Blind the man and Brian. Briony. Briony. Briony.

Oh, I see. Briony. Okay. What’s your name, sweetie? Oh, Kathleen.

Kathleen. Okay. So, you know, I forget the point about Briony now, so never mind. Don’t worry. Thank you, karma.

Yes. Okay. So sit down, darling. Thank you. Another example.

This is where we have to now look a bit more of a calmer one. Is and this is what I found immensely powerful. So powerful. So let me give you an extreme example again. In two thousand three, Richard Gere, you know, is a good Buddhist, invited the Dalai Lama to New York, but also invited twenty former prisoners.

And he invited a couple of people like me to have this meeting all day with these former prisoners. All of whom had done some kind of meditation in prison, like Americans. It’s black, white, Puerto Rican, Mexican, male, female, whole cross section. Very nice day, very moving, all talking about their suffering and their dramas and really is suffering in prison in America, I tell you. So they also invited he also invited two young Tibetan nuns who’d been imprisoned in, you know, in Tibet just for being a Tibetan nun, for god’s sake.

I mean, that even hurt flies, literally. These quiet quiet little girls. You know? And they’ve been tortured and sexually abused for a couple of years. Well, that’s sociopathic.

I would suggest that sociopathic behavior, wouldn’t you think? Two years. Okay? So there they are brought up with these views and the bones that they’re being like we brought up with the materialist views or the Christian views. You know?

And, of course, they’re actually actively practicing, utilizing these views as their basis for explaining their lives to themselves, then they’re gonna be and so difficult for themselves, enormous suffering, but they really worked on themselves during their practice every day accepting. And because they have the view of karma, which is just the default mode for a Buddhist, which means, okay, not only are our tendencies, habits from the past that we bring it with us, but even more interesting, all the beings we meet starting with mommy and daddy are not accidental. There’s no such thing as a random event. Carnival of the world is a natural law that runs the universe. He did not make it up.

He’s observed it, he would say. It is a natural law. No one runs it. No one’s up there pulling the strings. So it we the the beings we meet starting with our mommy, you know, there’s intense history with each other.

It’s the only way to put it. And whoever we meet and we all okay. We all know, don’t we, in our lives, we have some people who we meet who we know, like our cute poodle and our cute little pussy cat and our door gorgeous mommy and our lovely boyfriend who are nice to us. And then we have some people who are mean to us. Kathleen’s example.

These nuns example. Right? So the Buddha’s view is you don’t meet anybody accidentally. And I won’t be cosmic here. This is Buddha’s explanations.

You know? So these nuns having this view, and they’ve got this history with these two wacko psychopath sociopathic Chinese communist guards. And they this is the views that they had. This is the way they explained it to themselves. So whereas we would say, no one knows why this happens.

There’s not never met these wackos before. Why would they harm me? Equally, I’ve never met those kind people before. Why would they help us? We never care why good things happen.

We only panic about bad things, don’t we? We’ve got you know, I’ve never heard a person get asked in a class, why do good things happen, Rabina? We don’t care why. Just give me more. You know?

So it’s kind of interesting already why we only ask the bad things. Well, these don’t have that question. They have an answer. So therefore, they didn’t have that torture of pulling their hair out and wondering why bad things happen. They were able to deal with it in their way.

So at the end of their little conversation, it was clear they weren’t angry. And this is a shock for us generally in the West. You know? But they also got tears. You know?

And, also, they’re very quiet, and they said, and, of course, we had compassion for our torturers because we knew we must have harmed them in the past. Now, Catherine, I don’t know how much Buddhism is anything for you. I have no idea. You know? But this is and I can say my own experience.

Taking on board my choice, this whole deal as my working hypothesis, it’s become a massive. It’s a major part of my life. When you have at least a theoretical explanation for why things happen, including the good, then you don’t have the panic of of the fear and panic of no one knows why. It’s just a random event. I mean, this is the materialist view.

No one knows why. No one we’re having panic attacks every day. Because you never know why it is happening. That’s a terrifying way to live life. So I can say for me and this is answering Briony’s point more.

The view of reconnection karma for me is a massive part of the Buddhist view. And for me, I’ve been very delighted to take this on board as my working hypothesis to explain myself and the world to myself. It’s the one I’m using. I’m prepared to find Buddha wrong, by the way, but I I find it very powerful and very appealing. And I’ve seen it and I’ve found also radical in its experiential consequences of helping me change myself.

Because my feeling is the more and more we see it, and this is Buddha is saying, that the way that it whatever we have in our own head, it it has to inform how we respond to something. So we have in our head the default mode that mommy made me, which means then it’s not my fault. Of course, we feel that. Look at us. I didn’t ask to get born.

It’s not my fault. That’s a deep philosophy for us. Well, that’s well, it says that’s a philosophy of the victim. So, of course, when good things happen or bad things happen, you got no idea why. It just seems so random and that so much of our fear and panic and suffering is because of this.

So the Buddhist view of the karma one can really help you if you take it on board as a way of really accept helping you accept that I’m the architect of who I am, my good and my bad, equal status. Like, my life is my garden. And whatever’s in there, the weeds and the flowers, they’re mine. I planted them. That’s kinda tasty.

I find that very empowering, and it really makes you accountable and brave and confident, and it really stops the fear and the blame immensely. You know? It’s my experience. Just talk. Now that came up, Kathleen.

Thank you. And you too, What else? Anything? Yes. Just to follow on from that.

It needs to be hard to articulate this, but if you if we have karmic connections with people in our life who are challenging karma connections is the Buddhist way of saying we’ve got history with each other. Go on, darling. If you have someone in your life who’s challenging and you accept that Yeah. That’s hypothesis. Yeah.

Like you said with the nuns, they accept it. That’s right. Their worldview was that they had helped them explain why it’s happening, therefore, how to deal with it. They had the guards in the past. That’s right.

Yeah. And that was their car. Yep. Can you hear it, Dana? Mhmm.

Okay. Go, Is the point if you’re guess connecting in this life to reach some kind of equilibrium or resolution or, like, with that person or is it a It’s not so much the point as if somehow you planned it to be this way. Yeah. But It just takes care. karma takes care, I mean, as you would say.

You know, you have to fix the karma of the past life. You gotta meet this wretched person again this life. So, uh-oh, here we go again. Hi, babe. Yeah.

So you better start all the main point. It’s not necessarily resolved with them. Work on yourself. Yes. This is a learning.

Okay? I didn’t fix this on the past. What a drag. I would not keep it going. Mhmm.

But also the one I can’t stress enough, the the good stuff. You know, even the fact that we’re sitting in this room and there’s no terrorists walking in, there’s nobody jumping on top, there’s nobody murdering us, the weather’s fairly reasonable, but he’s nice and cozy. You know? We take we’re not asking, why is this happening? Because nothing seems to be happening.

But, actually, this is the fruit, the Buddha would say, of phenomenal collective virtue from the past that we can be in a warm, toasty place instead of freezing on the street, that we’ve got nobody jumping on top as murdering us, that’s fairly harmonious. This is not just random event. It’s the fruit of past actions, Buddha says. Everything in the universe is like this. It’s a natural law that runs every living being.

It’s very interesting. So you learn from the good immensely, and this is really one that brings us great confidence like my point to Kathleen. She’s doing really well, amazingly, extraordinary, you know, that you know it’s your mind, and you can see the pain that’s causing you. You’re ninety nine percent there, darling, so don’t worry about it. To not know that what’s going on in your mind has any role at all, that’s when it’s really seriously mental illness.

That’s when it’s the worst suffering, blame, rage, grief, low low self esteem, and my nightmare. That’s the worst one of all. Yes. If I’m hearing you right, you’re saying that shit happens Yes. But it’s our reaction to that shit that will give us I understand.

Peace of mind. Yes. Abs that first that’s the first point I’m making. That’s absolutely crystal clear. Do But that we created the shit as well.

That’s the extra bit. Yes. From the past. But shit happens, but, yes, our reaction. That’s just that’s an amazing war on death row.

Yes. Amazing. Right. So if if we whether we take on the the the calmer bit because Sure. That’s fine.

Would be calmer. That’s okay. Yeah. Yeah. Really matter what might happen.

K. What’s the my question is, what’s the very first step to make us accept that shit happens and our I can show got good positive. The first step is the first step is there’s two things going on here. There’s the shit happening, and there’s my mind. You accept you’ve got a mind.

You accept you have a thing called anger or resistance or whatever words you like. So that’s your mind. So all you gotta know is the first step is, you know what? Perhaps I could learn to change my reactions, change my thoughts, change my thoughts, it’s thoughts. So this is that’s the that’s the first point.

And that’s that’s like cognitive behavior. It is. Buddha Buddha is your best cognitive behavior therapist you can find. I promise. And I’m not kidding now.

This is literally Buddha’s approach. Literally. They have a saying Buddha has a saying, if you can change something, hey, baby, change it. But if you can’t, that’s when you that’s when and that’s the point. Then then we I mean, it’s great to change.

I mean, no problem. If you’re my friend and you punch me in the nose, I can request you to stop punching and you might. Aren’t I fortunate? But the real point is if I can’t change it and even better if I can still change me anyway, even the best. And that’s what that woman in prison, that’s the exact point.

And this is a tough one. And we know we understand it. But it’s just it’s to it’s to have this some kind of logic to want to do it. And this is where it’s difficult because anger is very and I know it. It’s very self righteous.

And I’m not being mean about anger, and I’m not saying bad people don’t do mean things to us, but we have this very powerful philosophy in our world that anger is good and righteous. The more you have harmed me, the more I’m allowed to be angry. And nobody would suggest that I should change my anger. That’s I think is a bit of a tragedy. The point the Buddha is making is like my the the guy the old guy on death row.

He realized after thirty years that the reason for his suffering was his anger. He was right to be angry. If you like, he can use the Western model because his daughter got raped and murdered. But he recognized finally that that broke his heart and that’s the point. It’s the softness towards our self.

I am exhausted by this. See what I can do to change my reactions. It’s not the it’s not all caught up in that other philosophies you’re allowed to have it, all that’s natural as we’d say in our culture. Do you understand? That’s the part that’s hard.

That’s what makes it hard. And also because anger and all the delusions are very explosive and spontaneous. We don’t sit there and think, oh, will I be angry or not? No. We do not.

So we we and we and all the, you know, the way that the philosophy we have in our head and especially our materials you reinforces my right to have it. Unless, of course, you’re angry and you and you don’t have no right to be angry, but you get angry because, you you know, you don’t like people, then, you know, how dare you be angry. But the other sort of a very emotional. If someone’s mean to you, you’re allowed to be angry. A lot of times, you shouldn’t be angry.

Do understand? Where does where does fear come? It’s very interesting question. Wow. So interesting.

If you look at the Buddhist model of the mind, you look at the list of the contents and these words that I’m using are the contents, not the psychological terms we use in the West. You know? Fear is not given any of its own status, but the reason is because very fascinating. This is hierarchy of these neuroses. The root one, and this is really an old Russian discussion, is called ego grasping.

This is primordial primordial assumption of a self, a separate self, which sounds weird because we assume a separate self. And this is where the stuff, the Hindus, the Buddha, this is the topic they got into deeply. The very nature of what this self is is everything we’re talking here leads to that. Okay? And to the deepest misconception of this neurotic, lonely, bereft, separate self.

Then on the basis of that neurotic ego grasping, this assumption of a self, which is fractured and dreadful, but we don’t even see it. Then there is this massive attachment to get what it wants. Then there’s this panic attack and aversion when it doesn’t get what it wants and all the other variations, the, you know, the the jealousy and all the other dramas. It’s like a hierarchy of them. Okay?

The point is they are in the nature of fear. Fear is their flavor. Fear is their nature. Fear is their voice. They’re all on the basis of fear.

Fear is the the character of all of them. You see? Look at a person who’s angry. Look freshly at that person raging on. If you can’t see fear there, oh, god knows what is.

Look at a person who’s jealous. Look at even the attachment, the panic, we don’t give it a thing. Fear is complete panic. But the way we use panic attack, worry, fear, it’s utterly, primordially prevalent. And all Buddha is saying is we can go beyond all this rubbish and go beyond fear.

And he means it literally, which sounds cosmic to us. Because all the positive qualities are fearless, because they’re rooted in reality, which is interdependence, and that they’re the core of our being, and we can grow this stuff infinite degrees. So as we lessen the neurosis and grow the goodness, one of the main characteristics is you become fearless, infinitely courageous. Nothing can drag you down. You become powerful, and that’s how you can do the compassion wing.

You kinda never give up because you’re always perky and optimistic, basically. The body sufferers are really perky, you know. So my philosophy is even if you’re drowning, stay perky. Really, it’s a really powerful point in Buddhist psychology. Are we here again?

Okay. Yes. On the concept of anger Yep. I I have an absolutely fantastic life. I’m a very lucky person.

But I can get angry in the morning just watching telling because of unfamiliar things that I Oh, darling. I know. This is a massive one. Yes. Nothing to do with me.

No. No, darling. That’s cool. Being taken money away from people that don’t have money. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. What’s what’s consequence Oh, sweetheart. Nothing.

I understand exactly. If we weren’t angry, nothing would ever change. Now there you go. You see? This is where, in our view, there’s an assumption that anger like that is mixed with compassion.

Right? Or it is compassion. We even think of it as compassion. And we think it unless it’s angry, like you just said, if you didn’t have it, the only option is to not care. That’s what you’re assuming, isn’t it?

The word is you not at all. Donald I were asked one time he was asked one time in a in a by a journalist. The journalist said, you know, anger looks really good. Just doing the same what you’re saying. I know very well myself.

And I’ll keep you an old radical lefty and old feminist. Was really good at all that. You know? So so he the the the Dalai said, I know what you mean. It looks kind of proactive.

It’s got it’s got action energy about it. There’s no doubt about that. But he said, it doesn’t last. It’s like explosive. It builds up, and then it collapses.

And then you don’t care when the anger is gone. But he said, if it’s coming from compassion, and I will explain a bit more, then you you you never give up. So it’s really it’s hard to see this because it’s again, it’s quite nuanced. The energy of anger okay. It’s very interesting.

Okay. One aspect of anger which is which can be utilized in the more advanced psychology and Buddhism, you know, to utilize to extract and observe and identify the the the good qualities of these neuroses. So if you look at and I can see it myself. It’s gonna be speedy, active energy. That’s anger energy.

When it’s destructive and negative and always finding fault, how dare you do this? How dare you do that? How dare you that? That’s for pretty self destroying and destroying of others. So for me, the way of putting it is you you change.

That’s what takes time. The the critical constant, which is always putting me up and you down. Anger’s very arrogant. You know? Then when you don’t lose the action part.

Otherwise, you become passive, and that’s not the opposite. It’s and then taking the Buddha’s view, when you have the explanation for why it’s happening, you’ll know why bad things happen as well as the good. If you’re a Buddhist, let’s say, over at the news, and what it will do for you, what make you angry, you’ll see it’s wrong, and that’s the critical aspect. You gotta have that. As as Martin Luther King said, it’s good to be angry, meaning good to be critical.

But then he said, but then you say, what can I do to help? And that’s compassion. So when you understand why it’s happening, you increase your compassion for the world even for the for the mean people because you know they’re having themselves, and you increase your own wish to keep working on yourself, and keep becoming a better person so you can help others more. So actually, all the world becomes grist for the mill. It doesn’t make you angry.

Is it unbearable? The world is unbearable. You see more and more these days. But you have if you have a buddhist view of a you know, karma, you have a reason for it. But even if you don’t, it doesn’t matter.

Even if you don’t, maybe you don’t know why it’s happening. Then you you you you can attempt to not all the time rave on, all the time get angry, all the time criticizing this kind of endless finding fault. We do it all day with the politicians, with the mother, with the boss, with the sister. We’re all the time doing we we we’ll set ourselves to exhaustion. See the problem.

Recognize it’s wrong. You don’t just pretend it’s not wrong. But then you think, can I do something about it? And if you can’t, then, okay. That’s the way the world is.

And even if you don’t have the view of karma, I think, like, I’ll do my best in my own life to help where I can and do the best I can. But you’ve learned to live with and accept it, not be afraid of it like there’s ugly roommates we’ve got in our head. But the karmic view for the Buddhist is certainly the one that I can say my personally, you have a reason for it. It doesn’t make you crazy anymore. That’s each individual being can use a different approach to that.

But it’s a time work to change. It doesn’t make you don’t see fault, not see fault. But you try not to go to that one of constant constant, you know, rising up criticism criticism. How dare blah blah blah. This one.

It exhausts us and it doesn’t help. Well, it’s not easy, but possible. And again, it’s all to do with how you see it. And again, it’s the neurotic. If we this is a really the key point in Buddhism at the start is to see how negative, unhappy, neurotic, fear based, ego based states of mind break my heart.

We’re so caught up in the righteousness of them. We’re so caught up in the energy of them. They’re so spontaneous, especially when it’s compassion when it’s mixed with the world. If you just act with your wife every minute, you’d called a naughty person. Because your anger is mixed with compassion, it’s sort of called good anger.

You understand? But it’s it’s gotta be very skillful. Are we here? Yes. Pardon me.

Yes. Well, then, I’ve pulled that question. I became aware very recently that it’s actually possible to be quite traumatized by continually taking in everything we see in the media. Some people actually quite one one does it would actually be to be a bit addicted to it because it’s so sensational and so moving. Where would the protection, the psychological mechanism be for I think it’s a question of where you’re at.

Yeah. So if we are already a bit fragile in ourselves and use as you say, traumatized using Buddhist way of saying traumatizes because you can’t cope with it. It’s too painful. And I’m afraid to say that’s called aversion. That’s aversion.

That’s the basis of anger. There’s a bit shocking to us. That’s anger. It makes us fearful. It panics us.

That’s called anger. It’s the beginnings of anger. It might be violent anger, but it’s called, oh my god. That’s terrible. I don’t look at it.

And that’s pretty instinctive. That’s called aversion. So the so that’s coming from attachment as a junkie that only wants to see the nice things and have the nice news and the nice things and the lovely things and the good stories. And of course, forget that now. I mean, look, we’re all we are.

Everybody, we’re all humans. Who writes the news? human beings. We all seem to be addicted to the dramas, know. So there is a way of saying, but you’ve to know where you’re at and you’re still fragile in yourself.

You don’t read the news that much. You keep you you protect yourself until your mind is on your own. You’ve done more of the wisdom wing We are more clear, you’re more strong, you’re more confident. And then literally as you progress, and you’re on the compassion wing as well, it is actually grist for the mill to increase your wish to help the world. But you gotta be where you gotta know where you’re at.

Pace yourself. You know? We’ve gotta know our own progress, know where we’re at ourselves. It’s very important at that point. Does that make sense?

That’s the whole deal we’re talking about here. Starting with starting your mind. It’s a very hard one. But let me just give you some advice, and this is where it sounds a bit boring and depressing. It doesn’t sound like it’s even what Buddhism Buddhism.

The very first thing, you know, junior school entry level in Buddhism is actually not even look at your mind yet. It’s too advanced. Just control your body and speech, and this would be ninety nine percent of it. So if, you know and this is a hard one This is like your point, everybody’s point. If you if you’re constantly verbalizing, let’s say, let’s just say there’s anger we’re talking, not attachment anger.

If you’re always verbalizing the thoughts, you’re stirring up the pot every day, aren’t you? And look at work, relationships. I mean, look at families splitting the other middle because of people talking. It’s just the speech. Honestly, it sounds kind of boring.

It’s almost like what your grandmother tell you. Behave nicely. Don’t bad mouth people. Don’t go on. Don’t keep meaning.

I’m not talking attachment yet, but looking at the behavior. Our speech is very powerful. And so as long as you keep expressing all the time what you’re thinking, anger, jealousy, or whatever it might be, then you keep stirring it up, increasing it. You’re increasing it all the time. So attachment, depending on what level you’re talking about, you’re just talking about attachment to boys, attachment to food.

Which one? I mean, I don’t think too personal here. Emotional. Music. Emotional.

Yeah. Up and down like yo yo a bit. A bit. Yeah. Darling, it’s alright.

Join the club. It’s okay. I mean, the whole Buddhist deal is all about lessening attachment, but it’s really quite advanced. So it’s like harnessing the other gross energies first, you know, controlling behavior. You know, really it’s not this is really quite profound, but so it seems so simple.

Even one day, you know, we had disciplined behavior. And this just sounds so heavy for us, but it’s so profound. Disciplined your body and disciplined your speech and not shove too many cakes. You’re not just saving you feel, not just follow you know, controlling your behavior first. This can’t help but help your mind calm down.

Would you agree with that? Yeah. I mean, we’re very you know, we we always co cooperate. We’re always communicating with each other. We’re very social beings, aren’t we?

Yeah. So if every time you see a, you know, you’re not really attached to cats. Oh, that beautiful cat also defined. Oh, little pussy pussy pussy. Let me see an unhappy cat.

Oh my god. The poor pussy pussy. Like, time you express the, you know, the the stuff’s stirring up all the time. But if you try to cook or you get, like, chocolate cakes too much, or if you always get angry when you see something wrong, behavior is quite powerful. Speech is quite powerful.

It might seem a bit sort of counterintuitive to say this, but this is really by controlling our behavior and being more disciplined, even maybe starting a few minutes in the morning, watching your breath, being very focused, and then just observing yourself throughout the day, then your mind can’t help but get the benefit. But darling, where you go? This is you know, you it’s more advanced when you begin to look at attachment. But understanding it first is the first good step. And then learning to know you’ve got it.

There’s a way you go before you get rid of it. And then learning anyway. And then also rejoicing in your progress. We never do that. Yeah.

Because we’re ridiculous thinking we haven’t done enough. That’s what dissatisfaction is, which is attachment. No matter what you do, you’re always thinking you should be more. I mean, you look at you sitting right in this ridiculous Buddhist class. You’re not in the in the in the drug club.

You’re not in the gun club. You gotta say, you’re not in you’re not raping somebody. You’re not stealing something. You’re already so advanced. You can’t believe it to be happy with your progress.

And suddenly, it won’t seem so bad. But we’re addicted to finding fault. I know it’s not all what you’re saying. Are we communicating? Yeah.

The whole practice is about being able to catch in the end. But way to go on you long term. Yeah. It about time we go home? Oh, time to go home.

No. No. It’s not. It’s. So Oh, no.

Seeing as I talk three times at peace and everybody else is more like midnight. So there’ll be time to go home. Yes? Food to thought. We’ll just keep going on Thursday.

Same old thing, more and more, bit of this, bit of that, and the weekend. Whatever you want. Okay. So the point is here. We finish.

We finish. We think, okay. Nearly two hours is what is you. As many thoughts as we’ve had is as many seeds we planted in our mind. So rejoice and delight.

How marvelous. All this, you know, thinking, analyzing, checking, wondering this, asking this, blah blah blah, all this rich work internally, planting marvelous seeds. So think, may I nourish these seeds from this moment forward, taking whatever I can from this, whatever I want. I’m the boss. You’re percent Buddhist.

It’s okay. And the first one is have the courage to know you can change your thoughts. Have the courage to know you can change that you’re the boss. And second, rejoice in our good qualities. Even the fact that we’re thinking about these things is beyond astonishing in this suffering suffering suffering planet.

So really delight in that, and I’m really serious. You know? Delight in that. And I’ll sing a little prayer, two little prayers to finish. One other just saying, you know, these baby seeds we planted right into the future as our marvelous potential no matter how long it takes for the sake of others.

And the second little prayer, just expressing the wish that compassion, you know, grow and grow in the hearts of all.