Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 41-minute teaching, Ven Margaret McAndrew guides practitioners through Buddhist frameworks for understanding suffering—the foundation of genuine renunciation. She distinguishes what the Buddha discovered through meditation from what his teachers taught, then works through the eight human sufferings: birth, aging, sickness, death, separation from loved ones, encounters with disagreeable situations, unfulfilled desires, and the pervasive suffering of a body shaped by karma and delusion. Rather than abstract doctrine, she draws on concrete examples—pets, fire and cold, career loss—to show how even worldly pleasures contain hidden suffering. The teaching moves into six deeper sufferings of cyclic existence: uncertainty, insatiability, repeated death and birth, rising and falling fortune, and isolation in experience. For practitioners beginning formal meditation on renunciation.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 02 4NT 1999 07 01.mp3
UUID: c1d23d0e-38c2-41c4-a782-b3f3c7846451
Teacher: Ven Margaret McAndrew
Collection: The Four Noble Truths (Ven Margaret McAndrew)
Date: 1999-07-01
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 40.8 minutes
Words: ~4,520
I think it’s oh, it’s it’s doing it doing it automatically. Right? Yes. So it’s not just single point of concentration. It’s not just Samatha, but it’s also it’s Vipassana that they meditate on emptiness with this absorption.
So it’s quite different to what these these gods are doing because gods are simply doing the Samatha side of it. So that was the difference between what Buddha learned from his teachers and what he discovered for himself in his meditation. So we have to meditate on the disadvantages of going to these god realms so that we don’t want to just aim for that. And I suppose this might seem a bit funny to us but it wouldn’t have seemed funny at all to the people of Buddhist time to whom this was a very real option to do these kinds of meditations. And in actual fact, we do need to understand these things because it might seem funny to us now that we wouldn’t want to aim for the God realms, but when you’re doing meditation it can be very easy to get caught up in these kinds of absorptions and to just remain in the absorption without analyzing.
So it requires an effort to apply the mind to analysis. More pleasures, more riches, more wealth, more enjoyments. Well most people don’t of course, aim to go to the yes. There are results of better karma, even the Asura realm. Well, they don’t fight all the time.
They they have, you know, I suppose they enjoy their wars too in a sense until they get killed, which I don’t think is going happen to them. Yes. Well, the thing is that yes. It would have to be No. But just somebody who perhaps created some good karma, particularly generosity and and, moral conduct, but who had had a lot of ambition and a lot of jealousy and so on would probably go to the Asura Realms.
Whereas somebody who did these things with a better motivation would go to the at least with less sort of pride and jealousy someone would go to the Asura realms. They have palaces and lovely clothes and Yes. Oh, well, you’re looking at a very exceptional animal, you know, when we look at pet animals. Yes. And if you watch if you watch That’s true too and I think a lot of pets have very close to human way of thinking and they are caught in that animal body.
I think that’s true, what you’re saying. Somebody, Interact, she died last year before last she was very fond of cats and she was telling you about her cat once. She said she had a little door made for her cat so that he could go in and out without having to ask her. She said that the cat was so pleased that the first night, when she first got the door put in, she just pushed him through it to show him how to get through. She said the first night he just kept on coming in and out of it all the time because he was so pleased just to be able to come in and out without having to ask all the time.
And if you think of it, what a drag it would be for us if we had to be always asking every time we wanted to go outside. That’s right, you do it in your little hair. And you feel so pleased. You feel so thrilled when you realize that you can open a door for yourself, don’t you? You really think, I’m growing up now.
Yes. So it’s true. Yes, and people who claim to be able to communicate on the psychic level with pets say things like this that the animals find it very frustrating. Know, that they’re very dependent on their owners to be a little bit sort of sensitive to their needs. Ethan, I don’t think any of us would really change places.
Sometimes when we’re worried, think, oh, it’d be great. You know, my dog has a great life. He just has to sit, lie around all day and go for walks and eat and so on. No worries. But we wouldn’t really, if we really offered the choice, we wouldn’t take it of being a dog or a cat or something.
It’s just our worries and our unhappiness that sometimes cause us to have these little thoughts. So no. Yes. Yes. And of course, if you watch the life of wild animals, it’s Some of the nature programs are very realistic and they’ll give you an idea of the suffering.
There was one recently, I can’t remember what it was, that showed how these lions were starving to death. It was very sad, but it’s very realistic that that is how life is for a lot of a lot of creatures. Yes. And it’s supposed to be like an example of the the pets are the example of having bad projecting karma but good ripening karma but they are the exception because most animals have very unhappy lives and many problems. In the same way, some people have a lot of suffering, although they have good projecting karma, they have some people can have a lot of suffering, roughening karma, but they still have the result of good karma in being born into the human realm and at least they have an opportunity perhaps to create some good karma while they’re in that human body.
Yes. That’s right. So anyway, where am I up to? Okay, so anyway, in the graduated path we’re taught to meditate on the God realms so as to remove any thought we might have of wanting to be reborn in the God realms, of just wanting to direct our karma towards that. Also, we have to meditate on not wanting to be reborn in the human realm.
In the short term of course we do want to get reborn in the human realm but we also have to realize that that’s only a temporary solution because we really want to get off the whole thing. So we look at the general sufferings of Samsāra and we have various ways of meditating to cultivate renunciation to the whole of Samsāra. In the medium scope, path, it’s explained that there are two levels of practitioners of this intermediate scope. There’s the practitioner of lesser intelligence who has to meditate on the of saṃsāra and cultivate renunciation and the motivation to attain liberation. And there’s also the more intelligent practitioner who also, as well as these kinds of meditations, also meditates on the twelve links of dependent origination and the four noble truths to understand how we’re caught in Samsāra.
At this point we So this person is really meditating more on the technical aspects. So we have to realize that even our supposed happiness is really a form of suffering. Happiness is really a form of suffering. Of course from one point of view it is happiness because we can definitely make a distinction between happiness and suffering. But on the other hand, if we compare this suffering with the uncontaminated blissful peace of nirvana, then it is suffering.
Because there is this real happiness, this true happiness that we not experienced yet. So our present happiness is just relative. It’s relative in comparison with the suffering that we experience from day to day than our what we call happiness is just state which is less suffering. And if we were to really understand the real happiness of having attained this peace of mind of the cessation of the disturbing emotions, then we would have an understanding of how even our present samsaric happiness is in the nature of suffering. So, this is taking the understanding of suffering to more subtle levels and we can’t experience this directly ourselves.
We can only come to have some sort of idea of it intellectually, but to somebody who has experienced meditation, direct realization of emptiness and who has experienced the bliss of the experience, direct experience of emptiness, when they come out of that experience, they understand very thoroughly how what we call happiness is really suffering. And to them, they wouldn’t be attached to that kind of happiness because they understand it as being suffering. To them it is suffering. So they say that for us samsaric happiness is really we don’t see that as suffering. The suffering or this subtle kind of suffering, which we mistake for samsaric happiness.
So for us it’s like having a hair on the palm of your hand but for these Ārya beings it’s like having a hair in the eye. So they’re very aware of it. Although they have much less suffering than us because they have advanced so much further, still they are aware of just the fact of still being at Samsāra, of not having eliminated saṃsāra yet, of not having eliminated saṃsāra yet, to them that is a continual suffering and they are very, very aware of it and they are constantly working to achieve the cessation of that bondage to saṃsāra. Does anybody want to ask any questions? So, we have different kinds of ways of meditating to cultivate an understanding of suffering.
And the three ways this this is talking about the general sufferings of Samsāra. So there are the the eight sufferings, the the six sufferings, and the three kinds of general suffering. And these are the sufferings that afflict the beings of the upper realms. So, the eight kinds of suffering are the ones that are specifically the afflictions of the human realm. And we need to meditate on these so as to bring about a thorough understanding that while we’re in the human realm we’re going to be experiencing these sufferings.
So, the sufferings that we experience while we’re the human realm are eight. And those are rebirth or birth, old age, sickness and death. So you’ll see that three of those are the ones that Buddha saw when he went out of the palace. Then separation from beautiful objects or objects of attachment, encountering ugly or disagreeable objects, not obtaining the objects of our desires, and suffering of being with this samsaric body created by delusion and karma. That’s the body workshop.
Yes. In this, yeah, this suffering body. So we think of our bodies as being a source of pleasure but more often they tend to be a source of unhappiness for us. Of course we do experience some pretty agreeable pleasures due to our bodies but that only leads us into more and more suffering. It’s like poisoned honey.
The trouble is that all your pleasures seem to come when you hug and then you get older, just, you get less and less. It’s not that bad actually because you might have more sense pleasure experiences when you’re younger, as you get older I think you just have a happier sort of state of mind generally. Or you can have. So anyway, just to go through those because I I think I’ll spend a bit more time on the the six sufferings if we have time for it. The suffering of rebirth is explained that being born there’s different kinds of rebirth.
We can be born from eggs. We can be born from the womb or we can have spontaneous rebirth. So of course as human beings we’re born in the womb. That kind rebirth is actually involving various different kinds of suffering. In Buddhism we’re told that the baby in the womb actually experiences a lot of discomfort which is something that Western psychologists seem to think is not so.
We’re told that we’re all actually longing to go back to the womb and so on. Was this of blissful experience. We’re told here that particularly as the baby gets bigger it feels very cramped, that it’s experiencing the sufferings that its mother experiences. For instance, if the mother is sick, has indigestion or something which often happens to pregnant women, the baby experiences discomfort. When the mother is hot or cold, the baby experiences these things.
It’s often very uncomfortable and it starts to feel very, very cramped and squeezed as it gets bigger. Also, it’s aware of its mother’s emotional state. It’s a very close women who’ve had babies agree with this. They say that they feel that there’s this communication going on on a mental level between the mother and the baby. So when the mother’s worried or unhappy, then the baby experiences those experiences unhappiness in its mind because of the mother’s unhappiness.
And then of course the actual birth process is very traumatic and being squeezed in the birth passage and then when the baby is born it’s suddenly thrown into this very shocking experience of all these bright lights and loud sounds and harsh textures and so on. And so we think that birth is a joyful experience but for the baby it’s anything but. And that’s why babies generally cry. Somebody said that the quote of a Chinese master, I can’t remember who it was now, but apparently this Chinese master said, When I was born, everybody was happy but I cried. And then when I die, everybody’s going to cry, but I’ll be happy.
That’s right. That was it was said at the death workshop. Yes. So yes. So but yes.
Yes. Yes. That’s the funny thing about it too that they have to be upside down. Yes. So then the suffering of old age, I won’t go into that.
If experienced it, then you know and if you’re not there yet, then you’ve still got that to look forward to. You only have to look around and you can get an idea of it. Generally, we don’t want to grow old. Everybody recognizes it as being a horrible situation. Even so, you don’t really understand how it’s what it’s going to be like until it happens to you.
As it says in the teaching, if it happens to us all at once overnight, then we’d die of shock. So it’s important that it only happens bit by bit. So then there’s the suffering of sickness and we all recognize that as being one of the worst sufferings that we experience in our life. The suffering of death. So the Zen Master might have looked forward to it with happiness but most of us looked forward to it as being an unpleasant, very unpleasant situation.
While we’re attached to samsaric things then we inevitably have to leave behind a lot of things that we’re attached to and we can also expect to experience a lot of physical suffering and weakness and letting go of our body which is something that we’re very, very attached to. And then there’s the suffering of separation from beautiful objects or objects that we’re attached to which we know brings us a lot of suffering during our life. Particularly people that we love. When we part from them we feel great grief and suffering. We can also be parted from many other things.
For instance, from our careers, we might have had a good career and then suddenly we reach the age when we’re no longer too old a candidate for downsizing and we have to take early retirement and then that can be a real shock to the person. From then on they can never really expect to enjoy the same sort of career situation again. All of these things are just part of this whole process. Possessions, you know, we might have a nice house and maybe it gets burnt down or we have beautiful possessions and they get stolen. So whatever it is that we’re attached to, we can never be sure that we’re not going to have to experience this sort of suffering in relation to it.
Suffering of encounters with ugly or disagreeable objects. And so here again, we often can’t avoid having experience various different kinds of unpleasant situations that we might want to avoid. Whether it’s encounters with people we don’t like, people who give us a hard time at work or at school when we’re young, in our families even we can encounter suffering situations, many different kinds of suffering situations. We only have to stop and think during our lives. There are many of these kinds of things that we have to more or less just put up with.
The suffering of not obtaining desirable objects. And this is the object, this is the suffering of wanting wanting something, setting our heart on it, making efforts to attain this, but we don’t obtain it. So we experience frustration and disappointment. We all know that these kinds of things happen to us. Also when do get the things that we want, sometimes we don’t find the enjoyment from these things that we’d anticipated.
So again we experience disappointment and don’t get the pleasure that we’ve been looking forward to. The suffering of this body created by delusion and karma. Here I’ll mention related to that. Some of you might remember the three different sufferings. Does anybody remember?
Yes, Diane? Mhmm. Right. Yes. Well, you know, it’s pretty much the same.
It it is that. Yes. It’s the body. Yes. It’s the yeah.
The the body taken under the force of karma delusion which is the extensive suffering. Yes. Suffering of suffering or suffering of misery, it’s sometimes translated. Suffering of suffering is okay because actually the the same word is used twice in the Sanskrit. Yes.
But just suffering. Yes. So yeah. So that’s gross suffering. So so each of them is more subtle than the preceding one.
Suffering of suffering or suffering of misery. Yes. It’s the suffering of conditioned existence because of having this body having taken this body under the force of karma and delusion. So are you clear about the suffering of change? The whole point of the suffering of change is that even when you’re experiencing the pleasure of going to being cold and going to the heater and you think, great, wow, You know, that is suffering because there is even while you’re experiencing that pleasure, that pleasure is in the nature of suffering because there is a small seed of suffering in that pleasure.
If it was uncontaminated pleasure it could not change to suffering. As it has subtle suffering in its nature then it gradually changes to suffering and you get too hot and your skin starts to feel as if it’s scorching and then you have to move away from the fire again. So, yes, so that’s suffering of suffering, suffering of change. And then there’s pervading suffering. Yeah.
It is. But the point is that it’s the I mean, of course, you get too hot, that suffering is suffering. The point is that even when you’re experiencing the pleasure of going near the fire, that is changeable suffering. Or suffering of change. You think that’s happiness, but it’s still suffering.
It it has a a seed of suffering in it. And that’s why it changes to suffering as keeps on going, as you have more exposure to the object which gave you the pleasure and the pleasure turns into suffering. And that seed of suffering is present in all our worldly pleasures. So it’s not just making the point that happiness always changes into happiness always goes and suffering always sort of comes along. But it’s making the point that even in our pleasure or worldly happiness there is a seed of suffering so that worldly happiness is in the nature Well, I’m not sure of that.
I’m not sure of that because an enlightened being an enlightened being would need to well, that would only be shown the aspect, but an arhat would need to go to the heater if it was freezing. Would. Yes. An arhat who was I’m not talking about the ones who are just in the, you know, this embodied state of nirvana. But the arhat who is still in his body would still need to go to the fire because this is just Buddhist, you know, as I said the Buddhists need know, Buddhists have an instinct for self-preservation.
They need to take care of their bodies. But there’s not this grasping. But Yes. Mean, yes. Yes, they don’t really desire it because for instance, an Arhat or an enlightened being if for some reason they were trapped in the cold and couldn’t get to heat, they wouldn’t be experiencing suffering.
They’d be cold. They’d just be cold. Yes. They’d know they were cold. They know that their body, you know, if it was really really cold, might know that they they could freeze to death.
And if there’s nothing they could do about it, then they might freeze to death, but they wouldn’t be suffering because of that. And they wouldn’t be clinging to the heat. But on the other hand, if there was a way of them getting out of the cold and getting to the heat, then they would do it because that that’s just the instinct of self preservation. Yes. Yes.
That’s the way we react to it. Yes. So I thought we were going to do some meditation tonight. Was going to have us meditating on the six sufferings and I haven’t even got to talking about the six sufferings. So I’ll have to I’ll have to read them out to you anyway.
I mean, in some respects, they’re similar. I spent too much time talking about the gods. So, what page are the six sufferings on? So anyway, just to mention the six sufferings, the the suffering of uncertainty, which I think we’ve already talked a little bit about already tonight so I won’t go into that. But in Samsāra everything is constantly changing.
There’s nothing fixed and whether we’re talking about from life to life or within one life, there’s nothing certain. So, but particularly from life to life. Secondly, the suffering of insatiability. And this is important because it means that because we have this greed, no matter what we have in the way of worldly goods, worldly pleasures, we’re never satisfied. So it says it’s like drinking salt water to cure your thirst.
It only makes you thirstier. So there’s a little story here that’s quite good because it says that there was a merchant who brought back a magnificent jewel from a foreign land and said he was going to give it to the poorest person in the country so everybody had to show how poor they were. There’s a whole series in here but something like the king started wanting this jewel and so he started plotting as to how he could manage to get hold of it. And then the merchant somehow had clairvoyant powers to understand what was going on and so he actually gave the jewel He presented it to the king saying that the king was the poorest person in the country because he had the most attachment. So then the the third one is the, the suffering of repeatedly abandoning the body again and again, having to go through through death and, not just once, but we’ve done it countless times and we’ll have to do it countless times again until we manage to get unless we manage to attain liberation.
And the fourth one is repeated conception, being conceived and born again and again. And so, not only are these things suffering in themselves, but we have to go through them again and again. So we, if we think about this, then we, can really cultivate the thought that we we’re sick of it and we really want to put an end to it. The fifth one is uncertainty, rising the rising and falling situation of Samsāra, both from rebirth to rebirth and also within our rebirth. But particularly from rebirth to rebirth, we go up and down during in cyclic existence.
We manage to get reborn. We somehow manage to create some cause for rebirth in the upper realms. We experience rebirth in the upper realms for a time, then we fall back to the lower realms, experience intense suffering, eventually manage to get back to the upper realms, then back into the lower realms and so on. Even within this one existence we can see that rising and falling is something that happens to many people. They experience high status then they drop from their status and experience a tremendous loss of status and a loss of reputation and position and so on.
And these kinds of things are a great cause for suffering. And the sixth one is lacking friends or companions or being alone. So during our lives we often experience this particular suffering of feeling alone, of not having friends or people to support us in our difficulties or having companions. And in particular we have to experience our sufferings alone. Other people can’t take them on for us.
We experience suffering, even if we have people around us, we’re experiencing it alone in our own minds. And when we die, we die alone. We might be surrounded by friends but they can’t go with us. We have to die alone. We have to go on to the next rebirth alone.
And this is a suffering that arises again and again during cyclic existence. So that’s the six. Yes? I think you get born in a lotus. And I think you get born as a child, not not an adult, but not a baby.
Yes. Yes. They apparently have these beautiful lotus buds and they look at them and think, ah, there’s a new god coming in one of these, you know, and they all wait for the petals to open. And then when the petals open, they’re all waiting there there to receive it and make it feel welcome. Yes.
Well, they’re probably a kind of god. In fact, some gods are in this world with us because the some the nature spirits are are low lower kind of deva. Apparently, the tree spirits and so on. So not all the gods had this kind of situation. And some people who have clairvoyant powers say that these nature spirits just look like some little blobs of light with no particular shape, sort of dim light, you know, not very bright, not just sort of soft lights.
So there’s different kinds of gods. So do you want to do a little meditation or do you just want to finish now? It’s five past. Maybe we better finish, but you should meditate on all these things. So I’ll let you meditate at home.
To meditate. Okay. Yes. Okay. Well, look, I I won’t lead you through any points because but just try to meditate a little bit on the general sufferings of Samsāra remembering that we’re all under the power of these different kinds of suffering.