Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 38-minute talk, Ven Lobsang Namgyel continues a detailed analysis of the ten destructive actions as part of a broader thought transformation curriculum. He unpacks lying, divisive speech, harsh speech, and idle gossip—each with their objects, motivations rooted in delusion, and the completion of the action. Throughout, he stresses that the mind generates the complete act before physical consequence: a lie is complete when you intend to deceive; divisive speech is complete when others understand and believe your words; covetousness is complete when you decide how to obtain something that belongs to another. He illustrates with concrete examples—a boss who divided staff through deception and eventually lost her business, a dog that understands cruel words, the rupee given without joy—and closes with two homework tools: a karma quiz that correlates personal experience to karmic ripening, and a self-evaluation practice. The teaching is practical, designed for serious practitioners studying Buddhist ethics and the mechanics of karmic action.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 31 Teaching 7.mp3
UUID: d5afeff6-93f2-438f-839c-7639241d9e01
Teacher: Ven Lobsang Namgyel
Collection: VenNamgyel Thought Transformation (Ven Lobsang Namgyel)
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 38.1 minutes
Words: ~5,063
Okay. All the way up to line. So three actions of body, killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, then lying. The object is another person able to understand you. Then the discrimination is an unmistaken recognition of the content of the lie.
So that’s important because sometimes we make a mistake. You know, somebody says, oh, is that a diamond? And you say, oh, yeah, thinking they asked something else. And then later you realize they were asking, is it a diamond? But really it’s a crystal.
So you made a mistake. So you have to have a clear unmistaken recognition that you want to tell a lie. You fully intend to deceive somebody. Then the delusion is, it could be attachment, telling a lie to obtain something you desire. Telling a lie to obtain something you desire.
Anger would be lying to hurt somebody. And then the act, it doesn’t necessarily have to be words. So I say, you know, if somebody says to you, are you a Buddha? And you don’t say a word, but you go, you know, like, well, what can I say? It’s a lie if you’re not.
So it could also be just a gesture. Yeah? Like, a nod and a wink. Yeah. So the act is not necessarily words because we often think of lying as words, but even not saying something could be a lie.
Then the completion is when the other person understands and believes your lie. So the worst thing is, to lie about spiritual attainments because that fools people. You know? If you say you’re enlightened or you have high realizations and you don’t, and people are following you because of your lies, it’s harming them as well as harming you. Then divisive speech.
Divisive speech is when you have two or more people. So it could be a relationship. It could be a group. It could be a monastery. It could be a business.
So you have these two or more people, and then they have a relationship. So it’s a business relationship or a friendship or it doesn’t matter, but they get along. And then you come in there and you’re using words or gestures or whatever to try and divide them. So the discrimination is you know that there is a relationship between the people. So you know that.
Then the next one is the motive, you fully intend to split the people. I used to have a boss who believed in, what did she call it? Dividing and conquering. She was a businesswoman, and she very much believed in if the staff start getting on well, divide them. Tell lies, do anything, but make them not speak to each other.
Make them not get on. It was a very strange business practice. Still, I mean, you think people would know better by now. Where they keep dividing you. Yeah.
So, you know, when when you divide people, what happens? First of all, people are not happy in their workplace. Right? Then there’s lies being told, people losing their job for no reason. All this deception may be going on.
But then that person who’s dividing you gets divided from their situation. Now the interesting karma that came from my boss was I went back to that business place some years later and the business had completely gone. And I asked what had happened and they said, oh, she completely lost the whole business. So she was using a lot of deceit and lies. She did that in the beginning to get the business, and then she used it to keep the business, and then it was used against her and she lost the business.
So it makes you wonder, is it worthwhile? Then the delusion, it could be attachment, separating a couple because you want one of the couple, you know, your interest in one of the people. Anger, wanting to hurt a couple or a group by damaging their relationship. Ignorance, believing that disunity and distrust are very beneficial or useful in keeping people on their toes. So this is what we’re talking about, ignorance.
Ignorance is thinking that if you divide people, it’s good for them. You know? It keeps the business sort of going. Then the act is actually undertaking to cause a separation between friends or not reconciling enemies. Say two people come to you, one of the two, and they say, I’m thinking of going back with my husband or my wife, and you say, oh, wouldn’t do that.
Not for a good reason, but just I wouldn’t do that. I didn’t like him in the first place or I didn’t like her in the first place. I don’t think you should. So you have to be careful of this because often they do what they want to do anyway. They get back together and then they start talking and then they say, oh, you know, I went to ask so and so about what I should do, and she or he said, you’re a really bad person and I wouldn’t live alone, you know.
And then you’re the enemy. So be careful. I mean, people often say say there’s abuse, say there’s beating and stuff like that. Well, of course, it’s different. You know?
But say there’s no harm and it’s your personal preference. I just don’t like that person. Yeah. So be careful of that. The completion of the action is when the parties understand and believe what you tell them.
The completion of the action is not when you divide them. It’s just when they understand it. Okay? So that’s why it’s important because it’s not difficult to do. Sorry.
Then the next one is harsh speech. I think some of these are translated a little bit differently here. Divisive speech. Here, it’s translated as offensive speech. In this book, it’s translated as harsh speech.
So harsh speech or offensive speech. The object is any living being that can be hurt what by what you say, and it generally generally refers to humans. However, I always used to say that I had a dog called Rime and she understood every word you said, I’m sure. And I think if I said to Rime, you’re the ugliest dog in the world, she would have been really upset. So I personally, I don’t think this just applies to humans.
I think that animals, if even if they don’t understand the speech, they understand the feeling. And why would you want to hurt an animal? Why would you do it anyway? So, you know, it’s not because they don’t understand, don’t worry about doing it. I think you should be concerned.
So harsh speech, just take it as any being who would be hurt by what you say. Then discrimination, you want to hurt that particular being. Then the motive is that you wish to speak harsh or abusive words. And then the delusion could be again attachment, insulting the husband out of desire for the wife. Speech designed to hurt an enemy would be anger.
Ignorance is not understanding the harmful effect of your words. So that’s coming from ignorance. And then the act is speaking rudely, harshly, abusively with a negative intention. And then the completion is when the other person understands and is hurt by your words. So we may not do this very often, but I think often in relationships people start doing this.
Isn’t it? When you’re not getting along, you can say a lot of really horrible things to each other. So if you found that you’ve done that, you want to recognize it, admit it, regret it, purify it, get rid of it so that you don’t do it again in the future. idle gossip, I think here it says meaningless, senseless speech. So here it says idle gossip, senseless speech.
Very easy. Yeah. It’s something that we can waste hours on. I remember people used to waste hours on George Bush. You know, just talk about George Bush.
When they were traveling, the popular thing was George Bush. Then it was, and who’s going to be the next president? So now we’ve lost George Bush. Now we’ve got the next president. Now what are we gonna talk about?
What’s the what’s the popular thing to talk about now? Oh, it’s probably swine flu. So swine flu, know, you can just talk, and what you’re talking about isn’t going to make any difference. If you’re with WHO, or you’re in the American Congress or something like that, talking about it might make a difference. But idle gossip or meaningless talk is something that is just going on and on and on and often becomes quite negative.
So the object in this case is something meaningless that you are treating as if it’s meaningful. Well, yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, I often say, you can’t just meet somebody and say, and so what’s your karmic situation like? And how much compassion and love do you have?
I mean, you can’t talk to people like this, can you? So often you have to start with the weather, where have you been, are you interested in yoga, and then you get around to something more meaningful. Yeah? But if it just stays on the meaningless level, you can spend hours and hours on it, and often it gets down to criticizing people or judging and stuff like that. So just in the text it says something meaningless, unimportant, and you’re treating it as meaningful important, but I think there’s also a time frame to it.
I think we’re talking about sitting in a chai shop for hours. And in Dharmasala, this is what people used to do a lot of. They just sit in the chai shops and another person comes and oh, George Bush situation, you know. And you can get more and more negative. It’s not lifting your mind up.
It’s depressing you and you’re depressing others. With The Buddhas, it’s often the weather. You know? Oh, the weather. That’s okay to open the conversation, but if you just talk about the weather, you’re not getting anywhere.
You’re just sort of stuck. You know? So try and move it on. Try and get somewhere else. Discrimination is viewing whatever you wish to say as significant, important, and meaningful even though it’s not.
So it’s unimportant, but you’re viewing it as meaningful, which is the discrimination. And then the motive, a state of mind in which you fully intend to gossip and indulge in idle talk. That’s not what you’re talking about. Right? No.
Have to have that motivation. My mother used to do this all day. She used to sit there with a pot of tea. I go to school, pot of tea, the neighbors would come in, pour the tea and just add more water, a bit more tea. All day, I come home from school, still sitting there.
I said, what did you talk about? Oh, just talk. You know? It’s like that. It just goes on and on and on and on.
The act is to speak without purpose. So again, this is not what you’re thinking about. The act is to speak without purpose. If you have a purpose to do it, it’s meaningful. You want to get to know somebody so you can help them.
Right? Or so you can become friends or whatever. The completion would then be having spoken the words. So these are actions of body, actions of speech, and now we get to actions of the mind. This is when you have to really introspect to see is this happening within your mind because it’s where the other negativities come from.
So the first one is covetousness. You know that one? Okay. It’s a funny word. I don’t know what it’s translated as here.
Oh, yeah. Coveting. Covetousness. Coveting means to look at something and keep thinking, I want to have that. It’s associated with desire and attachment.
Okay? So, the object is anything belonging to someone someone else, but it can also be a quality. And it’s not something that you’re willing to work for. It’s as if you want to take it away from them. Why have they got that?
Why don’t I have it? That sense of negativity, you know? So if you’re sitting here thinking, look at that cup. I really want that cup. That’s coveting.
Right? Not that you’re willing to buy it, not that you’re willing to go to the shops. You want this cup because it’s mine. Like that sort of feeling. Yeah?
So where does stealing come from? Coveting. It’s you’re building the thought in your mind. It’s getting stronger and stronger and stronger until in the end, you can’t do without this cup. And one day I’ll come here and it’s gone.
Right? But also, what about somebody else’s partner? How do you fall in love with somebody else’s partner and want them? It’s also coveting. Right?
That sort of feeling of I want that. So discrimination, correctly identifying the object as something that you wish to possess. Delusion could be attachment. It’s probably the main one. Anger, wishing to hurt somebody, an enemy.
You’re getting a divorce. You want more than half. You know? And you keep thinking of all the things you want. Coveting could be involved in that.
The act is generating a state of mind that wishes to possess the belongings of somebody else. So this is why it’s important to know because it’s all done in the mind. You haven’t done anything. You see an object. You build the feeling you have towards the object, you want the object, and then the completion is a decision how to get it.
I’m gonna sneak into that gompa at nine o’clock at night when nobody else is around, and I’m gonna take that cup. Right? That would be the completion. You haven’t actually done it. Now say afterwards you think, what a stupid thought.
Why do I think like that? You didn’t do anything, but you’ve done the complete action of coveting. So that’s interesting to think about. No problem. No problem.
But, you know, if you’ve had this, I must have that cup, not I’d like a cup like that. It’s a different feeling. You know that feeling of a hook? From your mind came a fishing hook and attached itself to this cup, and you’re sort of reeling it in. It’s not, oh, I really appreciate the design of that cup.
I’d like to buy it. That’s a different mind. That’s appreciating the beauty of my cup. Right? But that other mind that I want that cup, and I’m not gonna buy it, I’m not gonna work for it, I’m gonna take it.
Right? I want that SUV. I want that money, that house. Whatever it is, think about it when you’re meditating and you see somebody sitting really well. I want that posture.
Not I’m willing to work for it. I want that. Think about it when you’re doing yoga and you see him doing this incredible, you know, the leg round here and and you think, well, why can’t I do it? And not I’m willing to work for it, but I want to take it away from him. It’s a strange mind, and you might think I don’t have that mind, but you check.
Do I have that mind? Yeah? And if you do, you do something about it so that you’re not suffer now or in the future because it’s not a pleasant state of mind. Right? If you find it, you’re not going to think, oh, that’s nice.
The next one is malice. Malice. Malice. It’s hurtful thoughts. Thoughts that are hurtful, that would hurt somebody.
Malice, m a l I c e. Malice means harmful, to harm. Malice means harmful, to harm. Like malicious. Malice.
Malice. It’s like malicious. You know? So again, it’s only something that you’re doing in your mind. This one is very possible when somebody hurts you.
So first of all, you have the object which is a living being who would be hurt if your harmful thoughts were acted out. It’s only mental. Right? So if your harmful thoughts were acted out, they would be hurt. Then discrimination, knowing it’s that person towards whom you have harmful thoughts.
The delusion is probably usually anger. The act is the increasing wish to harm that person. And then the the completion is when your wish to harm the person increases to the extent that you make a definite decision that you’d like to do it, but you didn’t do anything. So you have a person, you’re thinking harmful thoughts, I would do this to them, that to them, and the, you know, like that that sort of thinking. And then it builds and it builds and it builds to the point where you decide you’d like to do something, but you still haven’t done anything.
Yeah. This is then what we what we call a partial karma and gives you the conditions around you that are irritating. I’m going to give you these sheets which you’re going to answer for yourself and it gives you the correspondence between your environment, the people around you, and these partial karmas. If the karma is complete, people are looking at you and thinking, I don’t like him. I’d like to do this to him.
Like this. Harmful thoughts, right, towards you, and you’re sitting there thinking, I feel there’s a very negative energy around me. Why is this happening to me? I’m a good person. You know?
Sometimes that happens to us and we don’t quite know why. It’s a past karma that’s now ripening. But if it’s not a complete karma, it’s ripening in small ways. There’s indications of it. Not complete, but some things are going a bit strange.
So there’s complete karma and only partial karma. So you’re gonna get these papers. Yeah. Well, it’s also a partial good karma. The What you want to do is you want to make a very positive karma, and you want to reduce the negativity of the negative karmas.
So why I’m telling you about this is not to depress you. It’s to tell you, first of all, this is how you make a very very powerful negative karma, reduce the powerful effect. With the positive karmas, we’re often embarrassed about doing a positive action. We’re very strange. I tell you, you can go down to the stupa and there’s beggars around the stupa and each one saying, you know, without the fingers and without the toes and all the different situations, hello, please give something, please give her something, and you go around, no, No.
No. And then you think, you remember, oh, practicing generosity, helping the beggars. Oh, alright. And you reach in and you pull out that really difficult to pull out one rupee. You know?
A sixty seventh of a dollar. You know? But you give it, no motivation. You didn’t even look at the person. You virtually throw it in their bowl or just you know like this and immediately when you walk away you don’t rejoice, you don’t think how wonderful, you think why did I give one rupee?
You regret it. So with the positive actions we’re not doing them very well, and with the negative actions, we do them very well. So Buddhism says, switch it around. Now do the positive actions very well and reduce the power of the negative actions. And what’s important is to know, right?
Because as you said, we’re probably doing a lot of really good actions without even being conscious of it. You know, helping charities in some way or helping somebody in some way. But you know if you say to somebody, that was really nice what you just did. You go, oh no, no. No, no, no.
Right? Instead of saying, yeah it was a nice action we feel embarrassed and we sort of pull back from it and say oh no no no like don’t tell me that. We’re not asking you to become proud arrogant about it, but know that you have done powerful positive actions. Relate to that, you know? That’s who I am and what I do.
Rather than the negative actions, that’s who I am and what I do. Oh, sorry. No. Oh, I thought I answered that, but maybe you didn’t understand my answer. Yeah.
You’re making good karma, but not the four parts complete, very powerful good karma. If you know about all of this, you’re making a much more powerful action. Because I get the impression what you’re saying is that, how can I say, you go to the shop down here and buy something and the money goes to the clinic to support the sick monks? Right? So before you were going to that shop and you were just giving the money and buying biscuits without knowing.
But now you know the action becomes much more powerful. It’s still it’s still something in it. But the more you know, the more powerful it becomes because then you have good motivation, you have the right action, you have the way of doing the action, and you have the completion. And so then it becomes a very powerful four parts complete action, which is going to give a very powerful result. What we’re looking for is more powerful actions positively, less powerful actions negatively.
You are still doing powerful, you’re still doing good actions, but if you’re not mindful of it, it’s just going, giving the money, going away but when you go away if you think that’s incredible I’m able to help them to support the clinic you rejoice And the more you rejoice, the more the action keeps multiplying. So take all the good actions you’ve done in the past and now think about them and rejoice and you keep multiplying those past positive actions. It keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. It’s like you’re adding interest to it. Right?
But we often forget the positive actions or we deny the positive actions. No, no, no. I didn’t do that, you know? You’re a good person. No, no, no.
I’m not. Well then you’re a bad person. No, I’m not. So what are you? I mean Modest?
Well, modest. I’m not Yeah. It’s good to be modest, but it’s also good to have self esteem. Positive self esteem. It’s not you, it’s the action.
Right? If we’re saying that a negative action, stealing something, is not you, it’s the delusion is making you do the negative action, then blame the delusion, not the person. Right? But what about the compassion and the love? It’s also also something positive.
It’s not the person but it’s the action. So when you say you did a very good action you can think yes that action was good. Not I am good as in building your ego but yes it was a positive action. That’s different from I am. You know?
It’s subtle, isn’t it? So then the last one, wrong views. So wrong views, it usually in Buddhism, it refers to denying karma, thinking, well, karma doesn’t work because I don’t believe in it. The four noble truths, something that Buddha said, this is a truth. And if you achieve the same level of realization, you will also realize it to be a truth.
So this one usually I sort of put to one side because if you’re not Buddhist then you’re not studying it. But wrong views are basically karma, refuge, four noble truths. If you are a Buddhist and then you say I’m a Buddhist but I don’t believe in karma, I think you’ve got a a problem. I’m a Buddhist. I don’t believe in the Three Jewels.
I’m a Buddhist. I don’t believe in the four noble truths. That’s a wrong view because you’re Buddhist. Right? Because these texts were written for people who have become Buddhist.
So I can’t put wrong views onto you. You have to take time to work this one out. Yes, my dear. I could hear a moo Yeah. I think to the point where you believe in it.
I think if you don’t believe in karma, if you don’t believe in rebirth, you’ve got problems. Some people say you can even become Buddhist not believing in karma and rebirth. I’m not sure. What’s the operating system? You know, It’s like you’re saying, I’ve got a computer, but I don’t want a basic operating system.
Just give me the bits and the pieces. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree with that.
I think that the deed may be the same, but the motivation might be different. Right? So it depends on which motivation you have, what you believe in, what you believe is your path, you know? So if you’ve investigated Buddha, and you should investigate him, has he made a mistake? Has he told any lies?
Is he trying to cheat people? In two thousand five hundred years, has it been found? People can, but has Buddha? So that’s why we try to keep the authenticity of the teachings from Buddha’s time because then you keep it as it was without changing it, without making it political, without making it nice. We tell it to you exactly as it is.
Now people can change that. People can say, oh, you know, yeah, you can do that negative act. It’s okay. Because they want to hook you. But actually has Buddha made any mistake?
Has Buddha told lies? Didn’t Buddha want to build an organization? Did Buddha want members? Did Buddha charge a membership fee so he was going to get rich? I say, you know, if we got a hundred dollars for everybody who became a Buddhist, we’d be more interested in people becoming Buddhist.
There’s no fee. There’s no joining thing, you know? It’s just if it works for you, if it helps you in your life, it becomes very important to you to believe in that, and then automatically you become Buddhist. But just to take that label Buddhist because I want to join the club, you know, I like your club. Let me join.
I don’t believe in that. I think then you’re not gonna behave as a Buddhist. You’re going to just be in the club, you know, shaving your head because the Buddhist do, wearing orange and red because the Buddhist do, and saying, oh, I don’t kill because that’s what we don’t do. But then secretly, you could be spraying your kitchen still and you know, killing the ants because nobody sees. But Buddha sees.
Buddha’s everywhere. You know, so then you’re being a hypocrite. So if you’re not being a hypocrite and you believe in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha because you want to from your own heart. It really benefits you and it helps you. You’ve reached the point of refuge.
And then the ceremony is just finalizing that. The ceremony is not as important as the heart. What does it do to your heart? Yeah. That’s right.
That’s the problem. Buddha said that, he when he taught karma, he said the problem with karma is it’s not instant. If I give you an example, know, how I talked yesterday about you’re a good person, bad things are happening. So therefore, you think, well, karma doesn’t work because I’m a good person and yet all these bad things are happening to me. So, say for instance, think of it in a different way.
Say karma was instant. You have a cockroach going across this table. You hate cockroaches, and so when you see that cockroach, you think enemy, anger arises or disgust or fear or whatever arises, the motivation, the delusion, everything is complete. You kill it. The back of the cockroach snaps.
At that same time, your back goes crack. You think, karma. I must never kill ever again. Right? That’s the problem.
It’s not instant. There’s only indications of it, and you have to look for the indications. You know? And you have to base your understanding of karma on the other things that Buddha said that you can check out. The four noble truths, you know, impermanence, death.
These sort of things, you can check out. But emptiness, you can’t check it out. karma, you can’t check it out. And so check out what you can, but the rest goes on faith. That’s the point you have to reach is, okay, I believe because you told these other things and it was true, so why would you cheat me now?
What’s in it for you? You know, Buddha, why would you do it? And then these realized beings, you know, who’ve been following this for such a long time. Then you get some feeling of it. But I think it’s a really good point.
karma is extremely difficult. Yeah. And this Western idea of, oh, it’s your karma. You know? You did something today and tomorrow it’s your karma.
That’s not karma. karma is much more complicated than that. We still didn’t talk about the four parts and how purify, but we’ll do that in the afternoon. I want to give these out because this is your homework. Please don’t open the page.
I spent my breakfast time folding these over. The point is to keep them folded over. You have a quiz. Personal experience, general environment, you need to tick it. When you’re alone, just tick it.
Then when you finish that quiz, you can open it up and see what it relates to. This is information for you. Then the other one is a self evaluation practice. So maybe you can can give one to Dan and he can give one out. So the karma quiz, do it later and then it gives you something to talk about in your discussion group because Today I want you to talk about karma.
Because it’s so important, we need to have a discussion. Then the self evaluation practice, we’ll talk about it once you’ve got it.