Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 96-minute teaching, Ven Jamyang guides equanimity meditation as the foundation for developing bodhicitta — the wish to free all beings from suffering. He grounds the practice in emptiness philosophy: attachment and aversion arise from misperceiving objects as inherently fixed, when in fact they depend on countless causes and conditions. He then leads the full equanimity meditation, instructing practitioners to visualize three people — someone they dislike, someone they love, and a stranger — and apply reasoning to equalize their feelings toward each. The session centers on extended, practical Q&A, where practitioners grapple with real obstacles: difficulty feeling equanimity, lingering resentment, and distinguishing attachment from healthy love. Ven Jamyang offers concrete guidance on using wisdom to work skillfully with strong reactions, how attitude shapes action, and the relationship between helping others and liberation. For practitioners with prior Buddhist training.
File metadata (for organising)
File: session 7 meditation on equanimity.mp3
UUID: 530be09c-78a6-48e6-b013-06a56d245426
Teacher: Ven Jamyang
Collection: Presenting the Path (Ven Jamyang)
Date: 2009 (exact day not recorded)
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 96.6 minutes
Words: ~11,809
Thank you for observing the silence so beautifully. And I felt that was quite a challenge this morning, but I think we went through that pretty well. I did it on. Yeah. Thank you.
So are there any questions from the teachings from you had a question. You have a question? One is just in relation to, I guess, from the initial I was talking about emptiness or basically an object and you see it depending on arising causing issues and so on. But I When you realize the emptiness of the object? When you realize the object.
When you realize the emptiness of the object. Yeah, pretty much, yeah. So, first of all you have to understand that what we see in the object that that is not really existing in that way. You know, if he talks about a flower, a flower is one thing. But if you think about all the causes and conditions that create the flower, there are many, many, many things.
And even if you look at the flower itself you could say: What is the flower? Is that this part? Is that this part? Is that this part? And you see many parts, but that one thing that we call flower you cannot find that.
True? Yes. So if I look at a flower, there are so many leaves, there are so many and I say What is the flower? Because flower is one thing. I say, Which part is the flower?
But that one thing exists out of many parts, which means that one thing that we think there is not there. There are many things there that make that one thing. So there is a difference between what we see. We see one thing but when you start to analyze there are actually many many parts. So how we perceive it is very different of what is really there.
When we analyze it we can see what is really there. Yeah, I’m seeing that probably. Okay, so which object will be difficult? Just in everyday life. Like if you can see it Call me one object.
Or So because the way we see it, what we generate on the basis of seeing an object, we create attachment or aversion. So when you have a book and you really love that book, and for instance you are a person who really likes to care take care of their books, you nothing should be honored and, you know, lots of attachment around their book, and then somebody comes and throws the coffee over the book. And then you get really angry because your book is, you know, and you will perceive it as there is only one book like this in the whole world that is your book and that never can be right, you know, that never can come good again because the coffee will be in there all the time and you will always see it and you is due to attachment we have this strong reaction. What you can say is then that that book, for instance saying it is my book, it is just a book that due to many causes and conditions ended up on your table. There is no I who is owning the book and there is no book that can be owned.
You know, the book exists out of many papers and they all exist in a certain way. We are very attached that it looks white with black letters, but when there was a brown, you know, color on the paper, that doesn’t really change what you read, doesn’t really change the essence. You can also think, well if you’re really attached to a beautiful book then buy a new book. There are many, many books in the shop that you can buy. If you’re attached to the money, it’s not really your money, it’s just money that came to you due to causes and conditions.
Right? So you counteract any belief that you have, you counteract that with reasoning. So what would happen to you when you have a beautiful book? What what could happen the way your attachment arises? You lost a book.
What would you think? So you have no attachment? No. Got to say other people react their attachment, you can see that’s their attachment. That their holding on to that one book as being their book.
And if you don’t suffer from that you can let it go. Maybe it will work when you think about your child. You know, your child gets hit by a car and it’s not just a car, it’s actually a drunken driver. How furious would you be on that person? And you would never think: That car only could hit my child because my child has the karma to be hit by a car at this moment.
You don’t think that. You think if that person hadn’t been drinking this would not have happened. Or if he hadn’t driven so fast that would not have happened. So thinking about all the causes and conditions that are not coming just from one side, they’re coming from everybody who is involved and seeing that they all arise simultaneously and yes, when one condition would have been differently it would not have happened. But that makes the karma so definite that all these conditions are needed.
How is it possible that they come all together right in that moment? That’s quite rare that it happens. So that is what is karma. The problem I have is understanding how it works, I understand about the causes and conditions they’re bringing together. I feel like I should be feeling something differently towards certain objects because of these cause and conditions.
But Like what? I just What what do you feel? For example, if I see if I see I see a beautiful flower, and then if I was looking at and just think, oh, it’s a beautiful flower. And then if I looked at it for another point of view and thought, oh, all these conditions come together to bring that flower, I still probably would not feel the same. Yeah.
And that’s and I just feel frustrated because I shouldn’t be feeling something different, and I’m not. So if the flower would somebody would come and damage the flower, what would happen to you? Nothing. So maybe you already practiced so much. You have to look where your attachment is in it, you know, because if you don’t have an attachment it’s like, you know, nothing is moving anyway in your mind.
So why would you move if you realise the emptiness of the object? It’s where you have your attachment. As I always say it comes down to the level of attachment to a certain object. Well, if you want to make a change in your mind then there where the attachment is there you suffer from holding onto something in a way that doesn’t exist. So if you want to change something that’s the best place to change it.
If you have no attachment anyway, then it’s hard to move the mind because there was no movement in the first place. So try it with an object that you do have attachment towards. And then try to analyse and then see if you have a shift. And if you still don’t have a shift, come back to me. Okay?
Do it quick. What? Do it quick. Do it quick. No, he has four weeks.
Five Five weeks. So when things come together due to causes and conditions, many causes and conditions, we call that they are dependent arising, they depend on many many many things in order to arise. The fact that things are dependent arising can only, it can only be like that because they are empty of inherent existence. These are two sides of the same coin. So when you realise emptiness, realise that things are dependent arisings.
When you realise that things are dependent arisings, realise their emptiness, they’re empty. It’s like when you realise the emptiness you look at the lack of how you think things exist. For example, the child. Can you be empty when that happens? No, that’s not empty.
Empty means And I mean positive empty, emptiness. But that is not emptiness. Emptiness means that if I think this is a flower, emptiness means that this is empty of being a flower. From its own side. This is empty of an inherent existing flower.
When a flower appears to me it’s almost like that flower was there before I saw it. There is something from the side of this thing that makes it a flower. As if the flower was born as a flower. Right? But flower is the mere name that we give to that thing.
So that what is growing out there was never born as a flower. There is no inherent existing flower. Because it would always exist. Because if there were an inherent existing flower, then that flower would be flower without anybody calling it a flower, which means that if I had never seen it and I will see it for the first time, somehow that would give me the information I am a flower. I would recognize it as a flower, which we don’t.
Right? Somebody has to tell us that is a flower, otherwise we don’t know it. The flower itself doesn’t tell us I’m a flower. So an inherent existing flower would say I am a flower, would somehow give you the message. You would know this is a flower if that was inherently existing.
If it was an inherently existing flower, that also means that there is part of that that can never change, that is always flower. And if we look at a flower, everything in the flower will change. It’s changing all the time. So there is nothing that stays all the time the same being the flower. But when we talk about it it sounds like it’s always the same thing.
But that same thing is not here. This is always changing. So this is empty of an inherent existing, never changing flower. There is not one feature in this that is that flower. So it’s empty of that.
Why is it empty? Because it is a dependent arising, because it only arises in dependence on many causes and conditions, which are changing all the time. So these two are the other side of the same coin. Being empty. Getting that intellectually is not the same as realising it.
No, very, very different. And when you get it intellectually, two minutes later you think what was that? Where was it? And you start again and then you think about it again. And you keep on repeating it.
Emptiness is very very subtle, so we cannot see that with our eyes. Our eyes are too what we perceive with our eyes is too gross. Emptiness is something that we perceive with our mental consciousness. Right? So the first time we see emptiness is in meditation.
Never outside meditation, not possible. Because outside meditation we look with our eyes. It’s a mental thing. So only in deep meditation can we go to that subtle state where we can realize emptiness. Then when we open our eyes, the permanent inherently existing flower appears again and we think, oh, but I just had another realisation and now it is, you know.
So because I have the realisation I know that what I see is not true. But I still see this as being inherently existing. So only in meditation I can realize that what the lack of that inherent existence. If I start focusing on what is the real flower, the whole flower will disappear in my meditation. That means that doesn’t exist.
If something exists, the more I meditate upon it, the more it will appear. If something doesn’t exist but I believe it exists, the more I analyze it and think about it, it will disappear. That’s why we have to investigate the teachings again and again and again because if the teachings are really true, the more we investigate the more clear it will become. But if the teachings are false, the more we investigate, the more it will just disappear. It will not be able to hold itself.
Right? So investigation is not just out of a pride like, well I have first prove that these teachings are right. But it is to see reality with your own eyes, to counteract that ignorance that we all have. So that’s why we think over the teachings again and again. Until we realize with our own mind that is the truth.
Because we want to see it with our own mind. We want to realize it in our own mind. And the Buddha only says this is how the truth looks like. But if you would accept it without analyzing, you can never really access that yourself. So just to back, what did you say about the flower meditation?
So when I meditate on the emptiness of this flower, I first do that in meditation because seeing the emptiness is a very subtle feature. Emptiness is like an aspect of the flower, but that aspect is so subtle that we can’t see it. You know right before you’ve read things like the human rebirth? How do you meditate? We’ll do that at the end of the day.
And is that on emptiness? Yes, on emptiness. When you said before, it’s not thinking that the flower started as a seed, is it? Well, can say that the flower is not When you think of flower, it sounds like some one thing. Yeah.
Like a concrete. And something that doesn’t change and something that is standing in and of itself. That is what appears to the mind. When even when I see the flower, even if I can see all the different parts, still it appears like one thing, one flower. That is if you start to analyze, you can say that one flower I cannot find that because I can only find many parts.
And when they all come together in a certain way then I call it a flower but that flower is not in the parts. That flower is not really there. I see a leaf and another leaf and a stem, but I don’t see flower in there. All these parts come together and I see one flower. That’s deception.
This is our mind constantly deceiving us. Because even when you put them all together, because you know that it’s got the label flower. Yeah. Then it appears like a flower. Yeah, like one thing.
It appears like one thing. If I see you, you appear like one thing. I never think, oh, you know, there are all these parts coming together being Ginny, see only one Ginny. But if I’m going to look, what is Ginny, what is Ginny really, I won’t be able to find anything that I can point out as saying that is Ginny. So it’s empty of The cup.
It’s not just empty. It’s empty of Empty of empty of being permanent. Yeah. Empty of being independent. Empty of being one thing, empty of being a self.
The cupness of cup doesn’t exist. The cupness of cup doesn’t exist. All these bits. And also this was a real cup. It could never be destroyed.
And even when I destroy it you would still somehow perceive a cup. And if we used it to hold oil we wouldn’t even think it was a cup. Yeah. One of my first realisations of emptiness, I have to tell you this. I had an uncle, he was quite different.
I was quite young and he went to Africa and that was, oh wow, somebody goes to Africa, who’s going to Africa? And he would take suitcases full of stuff, you know, clothes and whatever. And then he came back with his story and he talked about that he had bras in the suitcase. Suitcase. And that these people, they saw them and they thought, oh, these are nice rice cups.
And they Oh, beautiful. And to me that was like, though the bra doesn’t really exist, know, they make, for them it’s something completely empty, something different, they cannot perceive a bra. I’m more intrigued why an uncle would have a bra. Oh, had sisters who gave him stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It’s not the bra of my uncle, no. So, you’re saying that that is emptiness, like with a bra that you use as a vessel? Well, you can only do that because it is empty of being a real bra. If a bra is real and only used for one thing, then everyone would know that and would not even think about making something else out of it. It’s very innovative, that’s beautiful.
I love that. So that’s how if somebody, like a person, say, does something bad, they’re actually empty of being bad, like they’re not necessarily bad all the time. Well first of all, are not bad. Their action can be negative and can be harmful, but they in itself are not bad. They are just people under the influence of delusions and sometimes be how we see it too, wouldn’t it?
It would be how we see them, what we think of what they’re doing too. Yes, yes. So we never know where they’re really coming from. They might actually have a good motivation even if they’re doing something that is quite rude. They might be a Buddha, we don’t know that.
We can say we never know where somebody is coming from. Is that emptiness? That person is empty of being a bad person. So that’s a form of emptiness? Yeah, but when we talk about emptiness we talk about being empty of inherent existence.
Being empty, that is what we normally refer to when we talk about emptiness. But it can help for you to get the logic. You can say this is empty of being that, this is empty of being that. That can help you to train your mind in thinking logically. But when we talk about normally emptiness, we talk about the emptiness of self, the emptiness of inherent existent self or truly existing self.
So I don’t know if I’m getting this right or not, but so then in our relations with people Yeah. Right, is part of it because we have a perception of how they should behave in relation to their relation to us? Normally when we have relationships, we’ll do an equanimity meditation and that will come back then. When have relationships, we have relationships. When do we like somebody?
When they do something nice to us. When do we not like somebody? When they do something that we do not like. I I sort of mean, like say if you’re walking down the road and you know, I’m walking down the road and I see a gentleman in his seventies or whatever. Yeah.
And I was like, oh, that’s a gentleman in his seventies. He’s actually not a gentleman in his seventies or whatever. Yeah. And he might do things that you kind of oh, I don’t know. But if that man was, for example, my father or my uncle or my grandfather Yeah.
Oh, you know what I mean? Like, you I’m not explaining it properly. Keep on going. My perception of how they should be, their cupness. Am I making sense?
Yeah. Their purse my perception of how we should be relating is different to my perception if we weren’t in that kind of relation. So if you look at your father I’m just using that as do you what Yeah. Yeah. You see you see a man differently than the flower or the car, because really it’s all about people interactions.
Not all that, but do do you get what you’re Oh, it’s much deeper than that. It’s much subtle than But I think when you look at your dad, you know, you see you wouldn’t know your dad. You would perceive your dad very differently. If I didn’t know You hadn’t known your dad. But because you have known your dad your whole life, you would you see him as a different person, you see him differently.
If you have attachment to your dad you will see all his, you will exaggerate his positive qualities. That’s what we do. When we are attached we exaggerate positive qualities. You exaggerate negative ones? You can exaggerate negative ones but then we get more angry.
So yeah you can also do that with your dad. If you’re angry with your dad you will exaggerate the negative qualities. That is that is how anger looks like. We exaggerate the negative things. If you do not have a close connection, that exaggeration doesn’t happen.
Yeah? So somebody who kills a boy in Sydney, we have a very different different perception from that person than somebody who kills your son. So that is because your attachment to your son. That is because that person is hurting you so, something that is so close. You can have, because you can still have an attachment to the idea of how someone should be relating to you, can’t you?
You have expectations. Yeah. You are my son or my daughter. You shouldn’t do this with me. Yeah, because you are my son and my daughter.
In my mind, this is how you should be behaving. But they don’t. But they don’t because So there are two levels. It depends, depends. You a responsibility towards your son of teaching him certain behaviour.
So you can talk to your son from that perspective and say I do not want my son to behave like this. There is no personal attachment. There is love and compassion. You care for the son that he behaves like that. Or you can have expectations how your son relates to you from personal perspective and then there is attachment from your side.
And then your son doesn’t do it you get really angry. Two different things. The first one, no problem. The second one, you have a problem. If you are just compassionate towards your son and from that perspective you keep on correcting his behavior, even if he doesn’t want to go there, you keep on persevering, you stay patient, you keep on telling him without getting really angry.
But if you have a personal agenda, then you can get really upset when he doesn’t do what you want. You have to look at your own personal agenda. Can I just look at this? No? Well you can but you would never be able to solve the problem.
I’m teasing. I’m just I know what you mean. I’m joking. Blame someone else. No, I know you don’t.
So we all do that. Yeah. Oh, do. We just think if stop doing that, then I would have to stop thinking about why you were doing Yes. It.
Yes. Yes. I know that logically and intellectually that that can be it can take longer sometimes to really put that I’m getting there. You know what I mean? It’s very, very difficult that if people have behaviour that you do not approve of to keep your mind quiet but only when you are in that space where you can keep your mind quiet your wisdom can arise and you can do something skillfully.
But we have the tendency as soon as our mind goes like that we want to stop that other person so that our mind stops doing so crazy. It’s practice, isn’t it? Practice, this is what you see. And all the books I’ve been reading on the bulletin, practice, practice, practice, practice, mindfulness and all that. I think it’s great, but God is I listened this morning to a Christian guy on the telly.
Oh, me too. This Sydney guy who was doing this, and he was talking about a house, know, that spiritual practice is like building a house and you have to do foundation again and again and again, everyday practice. It’s not coming from attending once a month these teachings. Have heard, know, this is Buddhist practice. When I was watching him, kept on thinking about all the money he makes.
Oh, wow. And all the pain he rips off. Is that right? But that’s my aversion towards him, I think. So I think that practice is powerful for me with But you you can listen to what they’re, yeah I was intrigued by what they’re doing and why people get so caught And what kind of people that are, they get so caught up.
Only because their people are there, he can do that. But in itself the teachings, I always try to find like what did Christ really mean? Know, and I try to relate it back to I understand Buddhism best, I feel there is the biggest connection just with the mind. And if I understand the religion from that perspective it all makes sense. That to me is intelligence instead of just following, you’re actually using your mind.
Mind control but not in a nasty way, just mindfulness. Yes. Which I think is wonderful. Yeah. I’m gonna well, I’ll do your question after the meditation.
Alright. Is that alright? Thank you. Otherwise we’ll talk too much I think. So I’m not sure, I left this morning to help Saffron order a meal and then somebody had a grieving.
So I didn’t hear if Geshe-la talked first about emptiness or about bodhicitta? Emptiness first. Emptiness first. Is it a problem if I change that? No.
So I thought before we can generate bodhicitta, we we have to generate equanimity. Did you talk about that? No. No? Okay.
I’ll use that in a meditation. I have to make a time planning. Maybe twenty five minutes. So if you have sore back, you can do what Benita does. Oh, it’s beautiful back.
Yeah. Yeah. It’s good. It’s lovely. So make sure that your back is straight and that you sit relaxed.
Focus your awareness on your body and on your breath. Letting go of all the thoughts. And if there are thoughts in your mind, can put them on a cloud and just let them drift away. If your mind gets distracted, bring it gently back. Don’t suppress your thoughts, don’t follow your thoughts, don’t get involved at all.
Just stay focused on the experience that you have when you observe the rhythm of your breath. Go to the feelings. And then adjust your motivation by thinking that you’re meditating not just for your own personal benefit, but for the benefit of all living beings. And then to call to mind where we stopped yesterday. Yesterday, we went all the way up to renunciation.
The wish or the determination to become free of saṃsāra, to free ourselves of all suffering and the causes of suffering. Then we can realize that we are not the only ones suffering in saṃsāra, that actually each and every sentient being around us is experiencing exactly the same, as suffering in exactly the same way as we do, wants to have happiness in exactly the same way as we do. So then out of your compassion, you feel that you would like to help them. But what stops us from helping each and every one of them is our lack of equanimity. It is our biased mind that prefers to be with some people and to help some people, those who we like, and the mind that prefers not to help those that we do not like or who have harmed us.
So before we can really train in the bodhicitta mind, the mind that wishes all sentient beings to be free of suffering, we will have to train our mind in equanimity. And one Lama compares this with painting a picture If we want to paint a picture on a surface, we first make sure that the surface is smooth and even, and has no rough or uneven spots on it. In the same way, before we can train our mind in a meditation on recognizing all sentient beings as our mother, we must make our mind even with equanimity towards everyone. In other words, we must learn to stop discriminating amongst sentient beings, feeling close to some and distant from others. And the way to do this is by developing equanimity.
So visualize in front of your three people. First, someone who upsets you. And just by seeing or thinking about him or her, your mind becomes unhappy. Maybe don’t go for the person who makes you most unhappy. Next to him or her, visualize someone you love and are close to.
And just by seeing this person, your mind becomes happy. And next to that person visualise a stranger. Someone who is neither beneficial nor non beneficial. When you think about these people, you feel aversion towards the person you dislike, attachments to the person that you’re close to, and indifference towards the stranger. So now thinking about a person that you dislike, you ask yourself, why do I dislike this person?
What is the reason I get so upset? What has he done to me? You will realize that this is because he has harmed you a little bit in this life. But then recall one of the disadvantages of cyclic existence, which is that you cannot be sure of friends and enemies. Sometimes a friend becomes an enemy, and sometimes an enemy becomes a friend.
So then think in this way: Although this person has given me a small amount of harm in this life for a very short time, in many previous lifetimes, since beginningless time, this person has shown me great affection and has been very close to me for a very long time. The harm he or she has given me in this life is so small compared to the closeness and affection we have had since beginningless time. Yet I treat him or her like my ultimate enemy, the ultimate object to be avoided. This is completely wrong. And you try to think that over and over again in order to subdue your feelings of aversion for this person.
Then next to him is the person you feel close to, who makes you feel happy as soon as you see him or her. You regard this person as your ultimate friend, the person who is closer to you than anyone else. You have so much attachment for this person, you may feel that you don’t want to be separated from him or her for even a moment. If you examine the reasons why this is so, it is because in this life he or she has benefited you in some way, such as with resources and so forth. On the basis of some very small benefits, and for very limited reasons, your mind becomes so happy and excited.
However, you should think: Although in this life he or she has benefited me a little, he or she has not always been my friend. In many lifetimes, previous lifetimes, since beginningless time, he or has been my enemy. He or she helped me so much that just by seeing him or her I felt very strong affection. It is not reasonable for me to have so much attachment and desire for this person, just because he or she has benefited me, as beneficial to me and will benefit me. Because he or she has also been the opposite.
So by thinking in this way over and over again, you subdue your feelings of attachment. And then turn to the stranger. The attitude that you have towards this person is, I don’t know this person and I don’t care about him. He hasn’t connected with me in the past. He is not connecting with me now. And he will not connect with me in the future. So who cares? This attitude is also completely wrong. And you should try to think, in this life, this person has neither an enemy nor a friend.
But in previous lives, he has been my enemy many times. And also many times he has been my dearest friend, someone I was very close to. Therefore it is completely unreasonable to be indifferent to this person. Just as you equalise your feelings towards the friend and the enemy, you should equalise towards the stranger by thinking this way again and again. Therefore, when you meditate, you must first think that there is absolutely no reason to be so upset and feel so much aversion towards the enemy, who has been your dearest friend so many times.
You need to think about this again and again, in order to subdue your aversion and equalize your mind towards this person. Likewise, think that there is no reason to be so attached to the person you are close to, your friend. Because he has been your enemy so many times. Think about this again and again to subdue your attachment and equalize your mind towards this person. When we perceive these three different people, we perceive them in terms of these three categories: friends, enemies and strangers.
However, none of them exists in this way forever. Not one is a friend, enemy or stranger for all times. Therefore they are all the same. There is absolutely no reason to feel attachment towards one person, to feel aversion towards another, and to feel detached towards yet another. If we examine what they actually are, from their side they are sentient beings.
And they are all exactly the same, and that they all wish to be happy and free from suffering. Thus there is not the slightest reason to discriminate between them with attachment, aversion and indifference. They are all exactly the same. And if you get some feeling for that focus on that single pointedly. And if we meditate like this over and over again, we will reach the point where we actually develop equanimity towards all sentient beings.
And we will feel feel that they are all the same to us. Our feelings towards them will be equal. And then finally, dedicate the positive energy and insight created by doing this meditation to the well-being and happiness of all living beings. Is that a style of meditation? I find it a really hard one.
I find it a really hard one because I still can’t separate. First of all, I find it really hard to conjure up a stranger. To come up with a stranger? Yeah. Yeah.
I really find that difficult. The girl in the supermarket? Yeah. But I don’t feel as other strangers because I sort of see them every time I go shopping. Right.
You know? And and you sort of live in an area and you see everybody every day. So I guess if I’m walking down Rumble Moor, I could. Uh-huh. And intellectually, you know, I I understand the difference between a perceived enemy and a perceived friend.
But I still want my friend more than I want my enemy. You know I mean? And I find that one a difficult one. Yeah. And but I don’t think it is needed that we are gonna say, now I like my my the person who harms me just as much as the person who benefits me.
But the main thing is that at the moment why we engage with people and why we label them the way we label them is because what they do to us. And in the big scheme of things, this life is only a very tiny one. And because we have this strong reaction, these reactions actually prevent us from achieving our own goal. Right? If we could counteract these reactions we could become much happier very quickly.
But these reactions stop us from doing that. So if you and these reactions stop us because they’re so self centered. So when we start thinking about them, you can you see that your enemy maybe harm you because he or she wants to be happy? I can see all of that. So that’s that’s good.
So when you look from their perspective, there is no difference between your enemy, your friend. True? So in that sense you can help them all to find happiness. You can still have a more liking towards your friend and you can still avoid your enemy. I do.
But if you do it with wisdom instead of aversion You see, I haven’t got to that situation yet. I wonder how Because you’re angry. Ideal when I see these two people again. I don’t know because intellectually, I understand all and I accept it intellectually. To where does I get go to?
Do you mean? Well, have here your cortex. And what we actually wanted to sink it in, isn’t it? I think it’s in here where it still doesn’t go. Here it’s hurting.
Yeah. So you have to try to somehow come from that place. I think the moment you can really see somebody suffering, you can let go of your suffering. You see, I know these people are suffering. You’re here intellectually, but you haven’t seen it with your heart.
Sometimes I think, so they should. Yeah. You know, because it’s just how we are. No, that’s anger, yes? That’s not how you really are.
This is how we all do, but that’s not who we really are. Oh no, and I don’t like thinking that, but I do. You know, so yeah, but I find that one a very hard one, personally. Yeah. Because there is still resentment.
Yeah. They’re still holding on to the hurt. There is still the wish to repay that hurt. Or the wish that it had never happened. Yeah.
Yeah. Did you know Jeremy on the glasses? No, need to have one more minute with her and then you can share something. You wish that it never had happened. So is there any denial?
What would happen if you say: It has happened and I have to live with the situation and I have to find a tool to deal with the situation where it has happened. Because if you keep on saying I wish it hadn’t happened, I wish it hadn’t happened, you don’t really look at it. Yeah, you’re probably right. You’re denying it. So then it can never go.
And I think why I wish it hadn’t happened is because the whole nature impermanence because I considered one of them in particular close friends. And I grieve that friendship. Yeah. That you lost the friendship. But I’m working on it.
So what is friendship? That’s attachment too, isn’t it? There is a benefit coming from that, isn’t it? Something that you feel that is really nice for you or good for you. Friendship is relationship.
Our relationship with that person. Friendship is not coming from that person. What we experience in relationship to person is the relationship, not the person. So that way you experienced, you grieve that but maybe you have to find somebody else that you can have the same friendship with. You just have to let go of having that relationship with that particular person.
But not having that kind of friendship with anybody. You don’t have to let that go. Because it would be very hard not to go through life without that sort of friendship, wouldn’t it? And Buddhism is not about not being with friends. No, know.
And friendship is very, very nice and sharing supporting and loving and we need that as human beings. But what we do is we put it on one person and that person has the job to always fulfill that need in us, you know. And that is not realistic. But that relationship itself, that is like a bridge that nourishes you, you know, but you can make that bridge with anybody. You do not depend on that person.
So you have to let that person go and say: Thank you very much for what you gave me for that period of time and apparently that has finished, that karma is finished. That nourishing karma between you is finished for whatever reason. They came together and it’s finished. But not your nourishing with anybody, I hope. Otherwise you would have to create some causes for that.
And it’s also, it’s not healthy also to have friendships that way you rely upon them either. So strongly. That’s very dependent. No. No, they’re not healthy.
No. I think when you’re really healthy in your relationships you first of all are very healthy with yourself. So you know what you need and you know how you can give that to yourself, so that you don’t ask that from one particular person. And for what you cannot give to yourself, you know what kind of person could give that to you without depending on one person. You know, so that so that you never put that neediness in a relationship and without expectations for something and if it doesn’t come, having a lot of hurt and Mhmm.
And if you can do that with yourself, you know, you can you you do not depend for that on the other person, which means that you are not with that other person because you need something, but you can be there because you have to give something. And then every relationship is nice. Sometimes we need to have someone to give to, don’t we? Oh, hips, yeah. No, no, that can become a need.
I’m not explaining it well. Say that again. No, I’m trying to think what you mean. I think I know what you mean. I think, but I wouldn’t be able to explain it.
I think I know in here what you mean. Yeah. But I think I know in here too. But you want to be needed. Oh, that can be a neediness in itself.
That’s what I’m saying. Wanting to be needed is a neediness in itself. That’s not healthy. No, that’s what I was saying. Sometimes we want someone to be there so we can give.
So we’re actually meeting our need. They’re serving us by being there so that we can give. But if we are giving out of neediness, neediness then what we actually do, that’s like a hidden agenda isn’t it? Yes, It’s not serving us, it’s not serving Yes, yes. And ultimately it’s not serving us anyway.
No, but you also have a giving is a pure joy to do when you can do it, but if there’s nobody to receive it, it’s also alright, you know? You can also have a giving like that. The neediness doesn’t have to be behind that. No. Yeah, that’s what I was saying.
If we need the person to be there just so we can give, that’s not serving. No. Yeah. Yes. Many, many wounded I mean, I was I was thinking about a a particular neighbor of mine who is is sort of, you know, in effect, driving me away because he’s becoming too needy.
He’s a widower, and he misses his wife, and he’s got a lovely family. And he always tells me how lonely he is. And I keep saying, but I’m never lonely. I’ve I’ve so much to do, and I’m doing this, and I’m doing that. And just sits at home feeling miserable.
And but it’s becoming too hard for me now. And this is draining your energy. It’s draining me. You know? And he’s constantly on the phone.
And Mhmm. And then I feel guilty because I think, oh for God’s sake, leave me alone, you know, and then I feel bad about that, but he’s so needy, it’s just not healthy. You could think about what you can give him and be very clear and say, I cannot do this. I can, if you want to have my companion, I can give you that one coffee a week or something. And that’s it.
You know? And if they have more questions, you say, on Thursday, we have a coffee. We can talk about it then. Yeah. For example, I go around and see him most Friday nights for a cup of tea or a cup of coffee.
But if I don’t go around there for some reason, he’s on the phone. And and and I’ll say, but I’ve had to do this or I’m going to build a house tomorrow. I’m preparing some some dinner or something. And, you know, and I’d like him to move. He’s your practice girl.
He’s become so needy, but he’s also needy, so needy of his own children as well. It’s it’s almost as though the relationship with this wife, was obviously a very close loving relationship, but they they didn’t allow each other to grow as individuals. Yeah. You know? So and his children are growing children, and they are looking after him, and he doesn’t need to be looked after.
Mhmm. Yeah. So A small child. Paula? I was just Sorry.
No, that’s fine. It’s just I’ve been having a lot of trouble with my husband. Yeah. And a lot of trouble at home. And it’s funny, the last time I did that meditation at home, all three turned into him.
And it was like I tried to see So first you had friends and enemies, appeared, he was all three. And it’s really weird but it’s helping me deal with what’s happening. Really? Fantastic. Last night he was being difficult and it was on the tip of my tongue to just answer bed and I thought no I’m just not going to.
Because I didn’t, it just smoothed out and it was fine. It’s really helped just sort of thinking popped in front of me and I could see him and he was each one. Fantastic! And the moment you’re going to recognise his needs and the moment you’re going to recognise we are similar instead of we are different. I find it really helpful seeing that one person could be all three aspects.
Yeah. Yeah. It’s just strange. I just like my help. Yes.
It’s so kind of a interesting about it because even everybody people we know, still don’t really know them. I think we do, but there are parts of them we don’t know. There are parts of them that are total strangers to us. And things have happened in our relationship. It’s like living with a complete stranger.
Mhmm. So but it I hadn’t intended to do it. He just It’s fantastic. It’s strange, but it’s helped. Uh-huh.
Good. Good. Patience. I have to say patience. Oh, yes.
He’s strong. Patience. He’s strong. He’s I had a little bit of a story. I wasn’t gonna take any further.
And the next day, he just lit up again, and and I was and I was just being really angry at him for that for the last two or three months. Uh-huh. But I but I after that meditation, he sort of realized that he’s obviously got an addiction. Yeah. He’s got problems There was two levels of dealing with things.
One is, you know, something happens and that gives a strong reaction in our mind and what we are used to is to react from that reaction. So we are emotionally involved and when we are emotionally involved the delusions are there and they’re actually clouding our mind and only see the things from our perspective. Doesn’t mean we have the feeling we are right, you know, and maybe we are right, but because our delusions are in the way we cannot have space for the other person to be there and we cannot see that person’s problems. We are and that makes that the problem in our mind becomes hard, you know, and we go like hard against hard. But as soon as we can start thinking about the other person, our delusions drop and then the wisdom can arise.
And then we can think about both of us. But it’s not that we say or we accept anything that anybody does to us. Right? But what we want is to have space in our mind so that we can look with wisdom. And then we can think, okay, how could we do this?
One time, this is a story from a few students from Lama Zopa, a couple, and they bought a new car. And within a few weeks there was a big scratch on the car. And I thought, oh, who would that be? And I thought it could be the neighbor because something had happened. No, there was another reason why they thought it was the neighbour.
But they couldn’t prove it because they hadn’t seen it. Then they fixed the car and within a few weeks there was another scratch on the car. And I think that happened a couple of times and they let it fix again and again but they could never see it’s really they knew it was the neighbor but they hadn’t could not say we have seen you doing this and also there was not really a reason. And then I why would a neighbor harm us? You know because somehow the neighbor feels harmed by us.
The neighbor is suffering from something. The neighbor feels that we, he doesn’t like us. So what can we do? What will, Dennis what will Lama Zopa do in this situation? You know, because what you normally would do is you try to get a police and you try to prove that he has done it and you, you know, you get his whole and then they came up with the idea, we’re gonna give him a gift.
So they bought him a big present and they knocked on his door and they said we are so sorry for what we have done. They didn’t know what they were talking about. We are so sorry for what we have done. We really would like you to be a friend and we want to make it up and this is no more scratches, everything gone. I’ve got goosebumps.
And it was like, you know, turning around. Mine’s very loud, and he works a lot from home. And I’ve asked him to stop, and I’ve done all that. You know? And I do my auntie used to always bang on the window when we’re misbehaving his kids.
And he works late at night. You know? And I’ll bang on my window to make him stop. And one particular morning, I just woke up. And I know I probably should ring the council.
Other neighbors have, but I just I don’t feel right doing that. I’m little bit scared too of his reaction with that. And the neighbor on the other side is really lovely. And I was just happened to be reading one of the Bruce poems, and it said in there I might tick that as well. It said a sound is just a sound until you make it a noise.
Uh-huh. And it was just I don’t sort of I can book on. Oh, let’s see if this helps me. Went, woah. It was so interesting.
So I mean, you know You’re sad to hear it as a sound. And then I went banged on the window and he stopped. You know what I mean? I went back to bed. Just thought that was really interesting.
It’s just a sound. I made it a noise. I got upset It’s our mind that grasps, isn’t Exactly. And if we don’t like it, what actually happens is that our mind goes to the neighbors and it’s completely interacting with the sound. Yes.
It’s a hard practice, but it’s a very good practice. And if you can see it, can really separate yourself from whatever goes on around you. And you can keep your mind in a state of being under That’s fantastic. Or less disturbed. Less disturbed, well that’s where we start, you know, but we want to end up in undisturbed.
Yeah. You can see you have prison where there’s twenty three hours a day light? Yeah, they leave lights on the time. Light on the time, there’s all the time noise, there’s all the time violence, there’s all the time and if you read about American prisons, that’s so shocking. And one hour exercise, that’s it.
Yeah, but also how they treat each other. And then doing your Buddhist practice, you know, deciding that you’re from this gang member, you become a Buddhist who doesn’t harm the other person, you know, that’s amazing transformation that you can get through. This is why is so good. I’ve been reading a series of Eckhart Tolle’s stuff and other people’s stuff and they’re talking about how really messed up we all are. Then, well, let’s find the world.
Is it like it is? And then now talking about America. It was very interesting, the psychology of of America and how they’re into violence and, you know, and it’s happening globally. But it’s that understanding of how Buddhism or really good practices, and I don’t know many others, spread the word of kindness to everybody. Know, because when I listened to the nun, the Australian nun Robina?
Yeah, she was working in prisons, what she was saying, and it stuck in my mind. And I thought, wow. Good on you. You know? Because you spread the word of peace and I think Obama is a is a Buddhist somehow.
I have a feeling that Obama is a Buddhist. If you see how he does the politics. Okay. How he tries to make friends with everybody and how he tries to open relationships with everybody. He’s a Muslim terrorist, I say.
You you look what he’s doing. I look. You look what he’s doing. He’s very intelligent, but he’s doing it on the he’s very intelligent. And so he’s trying, every time when he’s trying to make connections, he’s trying to bridge.
But I don’t think we can honestly assume that only Buddhists do that. No, no, no. Sorry. I I brought that up myself. Sorry.
No. I said he’s Buddhist. Yeah. No. I mean, I I keep thinking about Nelson Mandela who spent all those Yeah.
Years and years in jail. And in the end, he was the only one in there. And and he he just he he accepted everything that was happening to himself. All he wanted was friendship. He tried to forge friendship all the time.
In the end, it was the guards and everybody loved him, and he was all in there by himself. And after what he had gone through, you know, and I just think, you know, as an example of a good man who was not a Buddhist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I shouldn’t have said that. Wasn’t a good thing.
Think there are people who we merit Mother Teresa wasn’t well received, but she was a wonderful person. So I think it’s qualities qualities of humanness that we all aspire to and that decent people aspire to, whether you’re a Buddhist or Muslim or whatever. What I love about the Buddhist aspect, well, for me, is that it’s clear and logical. And that yeah. But I don’t think it’s got it on its own.
No. I don’t just And that was me explaining what I liked about Buddhism because I haven’t had religious beliefs at all. And Buddhism is different for me. It’s more than mine, but I thought anything of the same. It’s like spreading love.
Be kind to everyone. I don’t care, again, what religion, what belief system is spreading love and kindness to people and animals and nature, you know, the earth, that’s great. And we need more of it. That’s what I actually meant. I I have a strong pull towards Buddhism, but I’m gonna go to rule.
I wasn’t responding to you. No. That was my my comment. I’m very sorry that I made that. I wanna sit under the table now.
I wasn’t responding to what you said either as far as that goes either. I just think universally It is all about the mind and working with the mind and using your adverse circumstances to transform your mind instead of blaming the situation. What are gonna do? Oh, it’s having a stretch. Oh, that’s okay.
Do you know? I thought Anna was going. Dear, I had a very good question. I’m not sure if I can answer that, but you have to ask the question first, and then we have a This morning, there was a you know, during the meditation, there was a we can be attached to anyone, to anything, right, to a person, even to ideas, even to the spiritual practices and virtuous actions. Mhmm.
K? Attached to that. Okay? And that how would you distinguish a an attachment to a virtuous practice or virtuous Yeah. I actually I’m I’m gonna I’m gonna debate that one.
I didn’t hear that, but I’m gonna debate that. Was there. Definitely. Being attached to virtuous practice. And and sort of spiritual practices and virtuous actions.
Yeah. But that makes sense to me, though. Does it? Yeah. How?
And we touched on it yesterday I thought. How? Look, might be totally wrong, but you know, I think if you become attached to spiritual practice you become self righteous, you might become rigid. Yeah, think you can be attached to spiritual practice, but can you be attached to virtuous practice? Yeah, if you’re attached to, if you’re doing it for the wrong reason.
I mean I’ve done this myself. But what is virtue? I know it’s not, but you’re attached to the practice, you’re not attached to the So you can be attached to spiritual practice, but can you be attached to virtue? But you said virtue is practice. Yeah.
So for instance, the practice of giving. Can you be attached to the practice of giving? If you want something out of it. Is that really giving? Back a step.
Yeah, reverse. Seems to me that what I think I heard was you said we can’t be attached to virtuous practice. It’s not attachment. But I think virtue and virtuous practice are two different things. So the doing of the virtue without virtue isn’t virtuous.
No. So it looks like a virtue, but it’s actually not a virtue. No, I might think we’re being virtuous, but it’s not virtuous. But you heard something else. And also virtuous practices.
And my question is how do you distinguish a determination to do private practice, spiritual practice and exercise actions. Because I’m just thinking, we are born contaminated with three poisons, alright? So how can we do all these things? How can we progress if whatever we do is non virtuous because that is contaminated? So what does contamination mean?
Whatever you do, there is always an attachment, attachment, aversion or ignorance. So the ignorance, what is the ignorance really? Not knowing the nature of reality. That you are impermanent, you have no self, no So as long as we believe in true existence or inherent existence, we perform contaminated actions.
So as long as we have not realized emptiness perceptually, we hold on to inherent existence. So as long as we haven’t realised emptiness perceptually, we perform contaminated actions. True? In order to be liberated we need to realise emptiness. If you’re going to say: Oh, but it is all non virtue what I create.
That means that, how to say, it is the contaminated actions that are going to help us to get to the uncontaminated state. So it’s okay doing all this contaminated We have no choice. We have no choice. Because at one point I was overwhelmed because there’s no way out, you can’t win. So what we normally do, it’s very difficult to win, But we can win, so we just have to be more clever than the delusions.
Right? So what the delusions are telling us, something exists in a certain way, and because of that I hold onto it. So what Buddhism is about is learning that whatever we perceive is not existing in that way. So every time when I get attached something and I think oh but that doesn’t really exist, I let go of my attachment I move towards liberation. Every time when I think about the nature of reality, time when I meditate on the nature of reality, time when I counteract my delusions by contemplating oh but it doesn’t really exist like that instead of winding myself up into more delusion, I unwind myself.
So what I’m going to do is just think that what I’m doing is non existent in its own right. And by doing that it will be a pure virtuous action. What makes you virtuous is your attitude, not just your view. The attitude that there’s nothing inherent. So there are two levels where we practice.
One is your attitude. The attitude The attitude which is non virtue is the attitude that is self centered. When we do not use our wisdom mind or rational mind, that is just how we behave. Right? So I changed that attitude into helping others, benefiting others.
Not just thinking about myself, I think about others. The other thing that is wrong is our view, how we see the things. So then I first try to so my view tells me I have to take care of myself. And because of my view I have a self centered mind. So then by thinking about it I change that attitude into an attitude benefiting others.
By thinking about it that things do not exist in way they appear. By thinking that by just thinking about my own benefit I’m actually doing something stupid which is harmful for myself. So by applying a lot of reasoning, changing my view, it helps me to change my attitude and changing the attitude. Attitude is the beginning of all the actions, that is the real karma. So slowly, slowly I changed my karma from being completely self centered into a karma that is more focused on helping others.
The result of that karma is more happiness. And if I do that to be liberated, you know, I can give up more and more and more of myself and keep on doing more and more for the other person. And the more merit I have, the stronger my realization of emptiness can become. The merit of helping others helps to purify my delusions, helps to become thinner. And the thinner they become the more I will be capable of seeing emptiness really as it is.
So we need both. We need the change in attitude and we need a change in view. And they both support each other, to help each other. From the beginning till we realise emptiness. We need both.
But we still have to exist in the world as it is. That will never change, the world as it is. We start there. I mean you can’t otherwise you can get too hum up on this emptiness and think like your mind can just get completely lost into nothing. No, but for instance Diva gets now really angry with me and says whatever.
She comes with something. So then then I can feel I can feel very unpleasant, criticized in front of the group, whatever. Story I make up in my in my mind, and I start to react from that space, you know. The moment I start to react, we have a fight. The fight can only get bigger, you know, and you guys see that happening and some they’re gonna take the part of Diva and some they’re gonna support me and, you know, before, you know, we have to call the police here.
Oh, that’s okay. Not anymore. But this is how human beings work. But the moment I can see she’s actually not talking to me. She is perceiving something that is hurting her, that upsets her and I start taking care of her, trying to listen, what do you actually mean?’ and I try to help her to get beyond that then I don’t have a reaction, you know.
But if I do not use my wisdom mind I will feel personally attacked. So I need my wisdom to see that you’re not attacking me, that you actually feel uncomfortable with what is happening. And when I help you doing that, working through I need emptiness to be able to do that, right? I need that space, that spaciousness of emptiness not to react. You know my mom used to say: Count till ten before you get angry.
It’s like giving yourself a space before that reaction can come and that space is like emptiness, it’s like when you hold the space and somebody can just come, then that whatever comes can dissolve. But if she gets angry and I start to stop it, she will feel that I’m trying to stop her anger. You know, that will actually fuel. You know, and then it gets bigger and bigger. And it’s even wiser there, I just learned something, at that time not wise to go and think how have I contributed to this?’ but focus on her, what she needs now.
Yes. It doesn’t really matter what you did. Because you can never ever behave in a way you do not contribute to whatever happens there. Know, people use anything that you’re doing as a reason. When they are sitting with some anger, people use anything what they’re seeing as a reason to get more angry.
You know, your hair is not alright or the color is not alright or whatever. We cannot change that. We cannot keep on changing so that they can keep on feeling good. It’s their stuff and when the stuff needs to come out it will come out. We do this, We try to please and try to and think, if I do this better, or maybe if I learn how to, maybe if I shouldn’t have said, thought, done, looked twenty years ago.
Yeah. And I realise more and more that is all crap. Yeah, is. You know? Absolutely.
And I I I do exactly the same, but I try not to people were saying in our family, change the goalposts. Yeah. You think you’ve reached the goal, and they think up the goalpost level. Nothing what you’re doing is right. Sometimes you wake up and then you wake up and you feel and then something happens and you get angry and you blame that thing.
Forgetting that the agitation was already in your mind. Yeah, that’s right. Normally we are already agitated and find a reason to ventilate that. You alright girls? Oh sorry, we were discussing boys.
I’m sure you are! Do it in the group! Do you then sort it out? You say this is my agitation so that when something happens you realise it’s just your agitation that gets triggered. It has nothing to do with that.
No, no, I have sometimes woken up agitated thinking well, what? I’ve just woken up, but there’s nothing, and yet I’m not crossed. You know? And then I think, what’s that about? I had a good homeopathic stuff for that.
I had a good homeopathic remedy for that. Rescue remedy? No, not rescue, Something else. What’s it called? I can’t remember.
Actually, I did put in alcohol. You don’t have alcohol? It’s okay. I did. Was that something interesting?
You guys? No. Not really. Not really? It a it was a private discussion, but it was focusing on I’m sure yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.
Yeah. One more. Yeah. When I ignore the enemy’s flaws and love, would I be biased if I say, may every sentient beings have happiness and be freed of suffering? Especially my family, my loved ones.
Am I biased in saying this? Is she? I don’t know, I’ve never thought about it. Probably, but I am too. I’m not sure.
If she says, May everybody be happy, especially this person. I don’t know. It’s nothing wrong saying especially. Yeah. Quite like that.
I do it with love. Oh that’s good then. It’s not really cool. I know. I don’t know.
She gives it to everybody. But then she said she’s No. Didn’t say a little bit more. She said especially. So it’s like you put a little bit more forward.
I don’t think it’s needed, but I quite like it. Don’t know. Sometimes you can also think the pure way of saying things is that, you know, that whatever happens that that is of most benefit, right? Or may happen whatever is of most benefit. No, I don’t know.
I don’t know why I want to go through that. Because in deity practice we offer for all sentient beings, but we also read out the Especially the names. So I’m not biased then? Nope. Without me.
You’re not biased in your love and your compassion. That’s good. I love life. Think it’s alright. Because sometimes we also say that everybody has this, especially No, not especially.
We have to look. I’ll read the dedication prayers from Lama Zopa, see if he uses that word somewhere. But he dedicates specific, you know, so he does for all sentient beings and he does for the whole world and he does for the whole universe But then he says: May all the world leaders, especially the ones from China develop compassion in their minds May they invite, you know, His Holiness the Dalai Lama to give teachings to all the Tibetans He is very specific in that. It’s that specific intention, isn’t it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you can say may all sentient beings be happy blah blah blah and may whoever, you can wish for ever you want. Yes. Just make sure that you dedicate to enlightenment and for everybody. And then in the short term you can do anything you like. Let’s have a tea.