Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. A Tibetan saying states: look to your present body and environment to see your past mind; look to your present mind to see your future rebirth. In this 35-minute talk, Ven Jampa Ignyen explores this teaching, asking whether consciousness continues after death—and why the answer transforms how we live now. Unlike Western religions, he argues, Buddhism doesn’t ask for blind faith; rebirth is accessible through reasoning, meditation, and the Buddhist law of cause and effect. He works through the practical implications: belief in rebirth develops ethical motivation and compassion, driving us to act for beings we’ll never meet. He covers Buddhist cosmology (the earth inhabited by celestial beings), contrasts evolution with Buddhist accounts of human origins, and uses sleep and waking as models for death and rebirth. Pitched at those new to Buddhism or testing its foundational claims.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 2001 07 30 02 Intro to Buddhism 30-7-01.mp3
UUID: b8c0ab32-d55b-488c-9b9b-1b14e47c20d0
Teacher: Ven Jampa Ignyen
Collection: Intro to Buddhism (Ven Jampa Ignyen)
Date: 2001-07-30
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 35.1 minutes
Words: ~2,954
Well, is a saying in Tibetan, you know, look to our present physical body, physical environment to see the state of our past mind. Look to our present mind to see the state of our future rebirth. Our future rebirth will tend to reflect the current state of our mind, current nature. But in a sense, actually, this whole issue, and what’s really important here, is this issue of whether we do exist beyond this life. Are you talking about a rebirth?
About rebirth, yes. Before that, say anything. Oh, well, there is a rebirth, and even prior to taking rebirth, there’s a before that called the intermediate state. But it’s important to investigate these issues. I think it’s important anyway to investigate these issues.
That’s yeah. Yeah. Isn’t oh, can I just say that? Isn’t that part of the issue about living now also dealing with living in the future as well? Because can we actually if we negate the future in the present, does that limit us to any degree?
Right. Well, I guess yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now this is an essential issue.
Very, very important. I guess in a way it’s a little bit like if we have to plan anything, if like one was a financial planner and we had a whole lot of investments to make, can we make them, you know, we only had a week to do it, or if we had, you know, we could only look ahead one week, or if we could look ahead, say, twelve months or two years, whether we could make better financial decisions or not. That’s right. It’s I’m gonna talk. Well, then from the sorry.
Oh, very much. I think all religions. I think it’s implied if it is a religion, it’s talking about beyond this particular life, beyond death. It’s a system or a structure for us to understand what happens beyond death. This does make it a little bit difficult for us because it’s beyond the current limit of our experience.
And so in general it’s called faith then because generally this area is regarded as being almost beyond logic or reasoning or common sense, only faith can explain it to us. From a Buddhist point of view, one’s next life and the lives after that are accessible through reasoning itself as well, through common sense, through psychology in fact. And Buddhism in a way is urging us to investigate these issues because by coming to an understanding of these things, we better know how to act in the present. It gives us more definition in relation to the present on how to act. And also it gives us the capacity to overcome actions that we wouldn’t be able to overcome if we only thought about a one life possibility.
In other words, that ethics can only be fully developed if one also brings into account other lifetimes. In a sense, to be fully ethical, it’s very difficult to do so with just a one life, a belief about one life. I wonder, you know, I just yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, I guess in all of this, this element that if one lives a good life in this life alone, then that should be enough. That should be sufficient. And actually living a good life in this life, acting ethically, not harming others, of course, from a point of view of rebirth is a very good thing to do, because on the foundation of that ethics, one will take a human rebirth or a positive rebirth in future. So whether one believes in a future rebirth or not, acting well, acting as a good person in this lifetime, without any view of future rebirth is a very good thing to do.
But I just, actually, just wonder in this regard, you know, at times like science in the West is really so advanced, you know, the astrophysics and, you know, all the various disciplines of science, they’re so advanced. But this area here, is dealing with religion is not very advanced. I wonder why. It’s almost as if it’s a taboo subject, not scientific. I think, yeah, maybe science will bridge Western thought with the, I don’t know, spiritual matters in future.
But does it matter what people believe? Isn’t it the fact? Science proving one way or the other. Anyway, that’s what we all believe, isn’t it? If science comes up and says that we’re actually completely material and proves it, then we’ll all accept that, won’t we?
But if it’s the fact, what else can we do? But look at science, look how successful it is. Look, I mean, we all accept science so fully. We accept computers, electricity, aircraft, all these things. We don’t doubt that science explains how things work.
What about evolution? Hasn’t evolution as such or the theory of Darwin and so on is not I don’t think it’s really attained the status of, you know, one of the natural sciences yet. From a Buddhist point of view, those areas are regarded as the the very essence of science. It’s those issues that Well, here, evolution in the way it’s explained, for instance, by Darwin and so on, the fact that we’ve evolved from apes is not accepted within Buddhism. From a Buddhist point of view, apes have devolved from humans.
So, well, here this is a, from a Buddhist point of view, especially in the field of Abhidharma, this is the way the universe is generated and so forth over eons of time, implies that humans came before the animals. Anyway, without going into that topic. Yes. It The earth itself. Very good question.
From a Tibetan point of view, the earth itself is like a mandala. And this mandala, the earth mandala, is the resident abode of a particular deity called Tenma in Tibetan, just as the moon is, just as the sun is, and so forth. The Tibetans and the Indians, they don’t regard, you know, the universe and the solar system as simply being like a place solely of just inanimate matter. In fact, these celestial bodies are also inhabited by celestial beings that we can’t see. Anyway, whether that’s the case or not, we need to investigate.
But it’s regarded, in fact, if one sees the statue of the Buddha, you see the hand of the Buddha on this statue up here is faced down like that. Can everyone see that? The reason his hand is down like that is that he’s touching the earth. It’s called the hand, the earth touching mudra. And when he attained enlightenment, at that point he was queried about whether he had attained enlightenment or not, and he touched the earth and the deity in the earth that inhabits the mandala of the earth called Tenma appeared and testified that, yes, he has attained enlightenment.
What he says is true. So in a way that’s indicating from a Buddhist perspective that the earth itself, is the abode of a particular, deity. Not that we would see this particular deity. It’s a female deity called Tenma. Yeah.
I think I would. Yes. Yeah, it would make a difference. Because, well, for many reasons, I mean, if one accepts that there is rebirth and accepts that in it being rebirth, there is the possibility of overcoming the limitations that we currently experience. And one in fact needs many lifetimes in order to do because our limitations are quite extensive.
And we can see that, know, to a certain extent. And so, we do need to keep our mind on how we going to, over a long period, how we’re going to actually achieve this, how it’s going to be possible. How is it possible to develop the current mind, so that it does become a better mind? I think I have the impression that if we only think about one lifetime, we don’t have much enthusiasm to act for the benefit of others, and we don’t apply yeah. Yeah.
Selective. No. I think I think it’s the, you know, as the Dalai Lama pointed out, that in fact, this view of humanitarianism is not a — it’s almost devoid of self interest in a way. It’s like being very selfless. Okay.
I’m gonna act positively for for other beings even though I’m finished at the end of my life, but this may help other beings. It’s a very selfless view, it’s very good. However, the question arises: Is it a correct view? And would it make a difference if that being were to know they did exist in future? And whether other beings exist in future.
The possibility is all of us now are finished at the end of our lives, this life. The other possibility is we’ve all existed in the past and we will continue to exist again in future, which is a much different scenario, a very different scenario indeed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Oh, that’s very true. Each Yeah. Oh, very Yeah. No, very much that can be used as an example of rebirth.
Like every day is like a life, every night when we go to sleep is like death, and then every morning we wake up is like a new life, rebirth. It really is like that, because when we go to sleep at night it’s as if we’re dead. We completely, you know, lose this self consciousness or this self awareness that we have in a waking state. It’s as if we’re dead. Sorry?
Well, of course we dream, don’t we? So, and from a Buddhist point of view, actually this process of process of going into the state of sleep, in a way mimics the process of attaining enlightenment. And the three states, waking, sleeping and dreaming also represent three states of enlightenment as well. But but anyway, this whole issue about, you know, whether we do exist beyond this life is very important. Anyway, I think it’s important.
You have to decide for yourselves whether you think it’s important or not. Sorry? From the point of view of past Buddhist scholars like Dharmakīrti, for instance, yes, these issues are knowable through reasoning. Reasoning can be applied to understand these issues, even in the present life. Also through meditation, it’s said that it’s possible to remember or develop higher perception of past lives in meditation as well.
So either through reasoning or through developing in meditation, it’s possible to establish whether rebirth exists or not. We shouldn’t have to wait until the time of death to find out. No. Just accepting something doesn’t make it true. If it did, then everything that we accept at present would be sufficient and true.
But for rebirth, Yeah. Yeah. Right. It’s yeah. Okay.
Just in brief, if one were to approach this, one would have to do it through conception, say through developing a correct conception of rebirth. Developing a correct conception of something like rebirth depends on reasoning. It depends on having a correct reason. So one would have to use a reason, say that someone like Dharmakīrti has stated in the past. For instance, take the final moment of awareness in this lifetime.
It it is followed by a further moment of awareness because it is awareness. Okay, now that’s, okay, that’s one line of reasoning one can use. Like if we take the final moment of awareness in this life, it follows that there is a following moment of awareness, because that first moment is awareness. What this type of reasoning is indicating is that awareness itself has substantial continuum from moment to moment, that on the subtlest level is unbroken. It never is severed.
For instance, the present moment of our awareness. Okay, so what this type of reasoning is indicating is just that, that there is this substantial continuum continuum of awareness. While we’re alive. But even what it’s also saying is that every moment of awareness must have a subsequent moment of similar type awareness to itself, because it is awareness. Similarly, it must have had a preceding moment of awareness similar to the present, because it is awareness.
Okay, this is a reasoning by cause or reasoning by result. And so therefore it’s based on the whole based on the understanding of causation. That Yeah. In itself, it’s an indication, but it’s not probably sufficient proof. We need something more than that, even something objectively verifiable.
If we are to accept something as a fact, it has to be objectively verifiable. But anyway, that type of reasoning can be applied. Otherwise, if we say we just feel it is like that, then other people are going to say, well I feel it’s not like that. It doesn’t just saying we feel it to be that doesn’t carry sufficient weight to prove it. What we always need with these issues is something with sufficient weight to prove it beyond doubt, to get it beyond the state of doubt.
Well, that’s a physical law, isn’t it? It doesn’t necessarily apply in the same way to the mind. Yeah. Or perhaps, I mean some, every view that’s possible is probably represented on the earth at present. All manner of view, some things that we take, you know, to be common sense, other people would, you know, deny that or hold an opposite view.
Everyone has the freedom to choose how they view the world or the universe. But our development as human beings depends on our view. So we need to develop a correct view. Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, there is. That would be an unskillful I mean, one can be unskillful with that. Everything that we see, hear and touch and so forth, all is a product of the law of causation. So whatever our rebirth and the rebirths of other beings is all a manifestation of the law of cause and effect, because it’s all impermanent. Whatever is impermanent is pervaded by the law of cause and effect, determined by the law of cause and effect.
Our rebirths and the rebirths of all other beings are just an expression of the law of cause and effect. So if someone is born deformed, it’s basically a product of the actions that they’ve committed in past lifetimes. Absolutely. Just as we do, so so do they. Yep.
But then we need to develop compassion for other beings. We need to understand that we ourselves are potentially, you know, can experience just that type of rebirth ourselves. We have the karmic imprints to take such a rebirth. And it’s just the expression of the current outcome of the law of cause and effect that we’re we’re not also experiencing a rebirth like that ourselves. But for for us to feel superior would be a wrong conclusion, because in fact we’re not superior.
Because we have the same potential to be reborn in that state as that being has. It’s just that time separates. In the past, we’ve had rebirths, countless rebirths like that, maybe even more than that being. So we have to learn ourselves. So assuming that there is rebirth.
Sorry? Absolutely. Every being, animals, insects, all sentient beings. Yeah. Yes.
No. Physically we’re not. And even every moment we can well, as it said in the within Buddhism itself, in every moment we completely new. Every moment never in each moment we’re completely new and we never existed before. In fact, completely every part of us is completely changed.
There’s no atom within us that’s not completely different than it was, or not different than it was in the moment before. So physically we completely change moment to moment. Mentally also we completely change moment to moment. We don’t remain the same. That’s why we’re impermanent.
And in fact, everything that we say, every other being around us is completely changed one moment to the next. They’re completely, in that sense, they’re completely different one moment to the next, although they’re similar. But that similarity, just reflects that they’re completely changing moment to moment. Or because, or simply because we can know ourselves in an objective way. Can’t we?
Mean, we can even, we can look at our physical body objectively, hopefully. Although we do tend to have a bias. We have many preconceptions about things. But ourselves, we can comprehend objectively. Yep.
Yep. Yep. Yep. Or at least, well, because that moment of death exists in future, so one can examine the awareness of that moment to determine whether it’s followed by, even when the physical body stops, whether in fact consciousness does continue or not. That can be examined objectively.
Yeah, that’s right, that there is awareness that interacts with the body but is not substantially the same as the body. Or that there is a type of energy or substance that’s non physical. There is a non physical substance. Well, from a Buddhist point of view, our current feelings, whatever they are, are a type of non physical substance. Well, this we need to examine because it’s yeah.
This issue about whether we do continue beyond death or not will be of vital importance to us, especially at the moment of death. Do we need to prepare ourselves for that moment? Ah, then this is really a practical question. Because at present we really don’t know. So if we were gonna have a bet on it, we’d probably want it each way.
Just in case. Absolutely. So that we really have to investigate. What is it going to be of benefit if we do happen to continue? Anyway, I’ll just leave it on that point there and go into this more next week.