Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. A guided body scan through the five elements — searching bones, fluids, heat, breath, and hollow cavities for any sign of an independently existing “I” — opens this 46-minute session before Ven Jampa Gendun turns to the Mind Only school, the second of four philosophical stages. Where the Hearer stage questioned only the self, Mind Only questions outer objects: a dream tiger terrifies the dreamer yet is never external to the dreaming mind — both figure and tiger are plays of the same consciousness. Perceiver and perceived, he explains, arise together from karmic seeds stored in the “mind basis of all,” an eighth storehouse consciousness that carries one’s history into rebirth. The practical payoff closes: seeing attraction and aversion as mind’s own display rather than external facts cuts their grip at the root.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 08 HoM 1993 08 18.mp3
UUID: 9e04b5d4-3bfe-4958-b5a1-25f13a245d0b
Teacher: Ven Jampa Gendun
Collection: The Heart and Mind of Awakening (Ven Jampa Gendun)
Date: 1993-08-18
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 45.9 minutes
Words: ~4,791
Situation. But try to maintain a small part of your mind to watch like a spy, to watch the I. What does it appear like? What does it look like? Try to get a sense, a feel, what the eye appears like in the emotional situation.
If you’re having trouble, you’re thinking to yourself, can’t do this, then use that I. And now we’re going to proceed to search for this I which appeared. We’ll begin with the body. First, the earth element. All the solid dense parts of the body.
Those which have weight in form, working your way down from the tip top of your head down through your body to the tip of your toes, looking all the bones, the teeth, the organs, tissue, muscles. And as you go along, try to see whether any of them are the eye, the solid portions, the heavy parts. Are they the eye, the self? Now we’ll look at the water elements of the body, all the various fluids, the flowing substances, the blood, urine, the lymph, saliva. Working your way down through it from the top of your head down to the tip of your toes.
As you come along a fluid, examining: is that the I, the self which appeared. And the fire element of the body, the heat, the warmth of the body, is that the I, the self which appeared? And the wind energy element through the body, the flow of the breath, the respiration, all of the energies moving throughout the body. Are any of them the eye, the self, which appeared? In the space element, all the various cavities in the body, the hollows, working your down way down through the body.
When you come across the cavity or a hollow, an empty place, is that empty place itself, the cavity itself, is that the eye itself which appeared? Is there anything in the body that we might have overlooked? Then reestablish your sense of I, thinking, I am meditating. I am sitting on the cushion. That I exist.
I exist. I am meditating. I am sitting on the cushion. I am an Australian. I am a man.
I am a woman. And then bring your mind to the breath. Easy gentle flow of the breath. And slowly becoming aware of your body. Just in your own good time, relaxed manner becoming aware of your surroundings.
There’s no hurry. So we’re beginning the discussion of the second stage in the four stages of awakening our mind to the ultimate nature of reality. At the first stage, the hearer stage, the world out there is accepted to truly exist as it appears. A world which is constructed out of indivisible particles, discrete moments of mind, all independently existing, all defining themselves. The world out there is not taken into question.
It’s accepted. The practitioner only calls into question the nature of the I, the nature of the self. Through their investigation, they realize that the appearance of a of a unitary, unchanging, independent self has no referent in reality. It is false. It is merely an appearance.
It is merely a model of a type of self which in fact doesn’t exist, which cannot which cannot be found anywhere cannot be found anywhere within the body and mind complex, though we believe it does exist, in effect doesn’t. Through this means, the practitioner gains an insight into a coarse level of selflessness, the selflessness, the non existence of a unitary, unchanging, independent self, that that self, in fact, doesn’t exist and removes removes the coarse level of ignorance. In order to increase our wisdom, we now have to remove a more subtle level of ignorance. The practitioner, we, have to now progress to the mind only stage, the second stage. So it is only by removing ignorance and its traces that we can completely free the mind from any obstructions to the complete actualization of the human potential, in a complete awakening, in a state that we have characterized by this complete peace within and a state motivated out of compassion whereby we seek skillfully to bring about the welfare of others.
This is the actualization of the human potential, is obstructed by ignorance, is only overcome by wisdom. So at the hearer stage, we took for granted a world out there. At the mind only stage, we begin to question that world out there. That, you know, we’ve seen at the at the hearer stage that appearances appearances can be deceiving, just like, you know, what appears to be a snake, which is in fact a rope. So having learned that lesson at at the the hearer stage that appearances can in fact be deceiving, we begin to question the appearance of things out there.
I guess it’s important, you know, that in coming to an understanding, we’re we’re developing a flexibility of mind. It’s a it’s a process. You know, as I I use that metaphor of walking, you know, slowly stepping off the firm bank of of the of the river into the waters. And you’re not quite sure if you can swim. There’s some doubt.
There’s some fear about it. Holding onto a log and going out further and further in the middle until until one has great gains great confidence in one’s understanding and is able to let go of the log, realizing there was never anything to fear of anyway to begin with. So there is a process we’re working through. We’re developing the flexibility. We’re we’re transforming really very deep seated beliefs, which and this is a a gradual process, a gradual unfolding.
There’s resistance to this change. There’s fear to this change. Also, what is going to be presented is not necessarily the final thought of the Buddha on the subject. You know, as as is oftentimes mentioned, the Buddha was quite skillful in his presentation and his leading of of his students along their particular spiritual path. He taught in accordance with a particular student’s needs, capacities, dispositions, where they were at at that time.
He taught in accordance with their unique needs, what would work for them. He didn’t give the same teaching to all of his students. So sometimes he would teach that the self existed. Sometimes he taught that it didn’t exist. He taught different things to different people, whatever would facilitate them along the path.
So what we’re learning in terms of the mind only school, we have to go. We have to begin to understand it because it’s like like the like the rungs of a ladder. But it’s not necessarily the Buddhist final thought on the subject of the ultimate nature reality. It is simply a skillful means to lead us to that point. So, you know, we can’t get some of the things that we’re going to be learning at this stage will be let go of at a later stage, will actually be contradicted at a later stage.
Understand because it is through this process that we can begin to work down to more and more subtle levels of ignorance, wrong beliefs, misconceptions. So this stage that we’re going to that we’re looking at now is called the mind only stage. It’s called the mind only stage because it is asserted that it is asserted that all phenomena and by phenomena, I mean know, tables, people, houses, cars, the world, the universe, phenomena of those kinds of things, plus permanent phenomena. There are, in general, there are impermanent phenomena and permanent phenomena. Permanent impermanent phenomena are anything which arises in dependence upon causes, conditions, tables, people, houses, the earth.
And there are permanent phenomena, such things as unconditioned space. The space which, is there whether there are things there or not, which they can the space which contains everything. It doesn’t change. It’s not dependent upon costs and conditions. Whether there is someone something there or not, it remains unchanged.
That’s a permanent phenomenon. There’s a variety of types of permanent phenomena. So that’s another class of phenomenon. All phenomena are the same entity as the mind. And this will become clear as, hopefully, as we go along what we mean by that.
But the word mind only means that all phenomena are the same entity of the mind, the same nature as the mind. This is not to say that phenomena are mind. So there’s a there’s a we have to learn a distinction. This table is the same entity as my mind, but it’s not the it is not made of mind. It’s a material.
It it does it is not knowing. It is not an observer of objects, but it’s the same entity as my mind. Minds are observers of objects. And if all phenomena were then all phenomena would be observers of objects, would absurdly be observers of objects. This table, this bell, this book would be observers of objects.
They would be mine. Rather, just as the objects in a dream, you know, that the mind perceives are not separate from the mind, but they are not mind. We have a dream. We dream about I don’t know. What do you dream about?
Going on a trip to Bali. Sounds pretty good. They’re all the there’s the the you know, maybe we fly by a plane. You know, there’s the plane in the dream. There’s the stewardess and the pilot and checkout counter.
There’s the luggage. There’s the airport landing. There’s going to the hotel, the beaches, the palm trees, the sand, the ocean. All of these things appear in my dream. Those things are not mine, but they are not separate from my mind.
Everything that my is contained within in my dream. They are not they are the same entity as the mind, but they are not consciousness. They are not minds. That that appearance of ocean in the dream, that appearance of a hotel in a dream is not a consciousness, But it it it is an appearance. But that appearance is not separate from my mind.
It’s not it does not exist external to my mind. It is the same entity as my mind. So, you know, this this rule will explain this more. Likewise and mind only school is very useful to think of in terms of dreams. And we’re we’re we’re to you know, at that state when we before we began this process, we were very much naive realists.
And just say the world exists out there unquestioned, solid, concrete. And it’s and now we’re beginning to to develop some sense that it’s not quite as solid as it once appeared to ourselves. We it’s it’s becoming a bit shaky. Things are getting a little more permeable. We’re developing a more flexibility in our in our world view as to the world out there, its nature.
So just as in a dream, the things out there, this table, you, this building are not mine, but they are not separate from the entity of my own mind. They are in the same entity or the same entity as my my own mind. They do not exist external to my mind. The table that you this building do not exist external to my mind. The same entity as my mind.
Therefore, we call this goal mind only. We’re going to make, hopefully, that will become clearer. You know, the the the mind so if in saying that, we can think, wow. You know, this the the mind only school is something like what a particular Western philosophical school called solipsism. A solipsis.
I said it. A solapsis view that the world is simply one’s own creation, one’s own individual invention, that nothing else exists except oneself. Everything else is simply my own product of my own imagination. That’s the solipsist view. Solipsism is a metaphysical view that at this that oneself is the only knowable or the only existent.
There’s nothing else but me. I mean, we may act that way quite often. Anyway, but that’s probably not our view if we think about it. But some people do think about it when they come up with this type of view, that they are the only thing that exists, nothing outside of themselves. Everything else is simply a product of their imagination.
So the mind only practitioner avoids this view of solipsism, in that he or she has already realized at the hearer stage of the nonexistence of the self that could be such a creator of fantasy world, that, you know, that the self doesn’t exist as an isolated substance but exists in relationship to the world, is depend is dependently existent. An independent isolated self simply doesn’t exist. Therefore, it doesn’t fall into the extreme that that that there is an isolated self, which is simply the sole creator inventing this universe, everything that appears to him or her. Also, I I guess and this is in a way, the the mind only score is one of the most difficult of these four stages, But it’s quite useful to understand this score. Okay?
I think it it’s it’ll give us a flexibility of mind. Though all phenomena are the same entity of mind and I’m I’m going to let me I’ll I’ll jump just ahead a bit. Why we say now I want all phenomena are the same entity as the mind. All phenomena are not the same entity as my mind or your mind or your mind or your mind. If that were the case, then you would have to have an omniscient mind.
All phenomena are the same entity as omniscient mind. Omniscient mind is a mind which is able to directly perceive all phenomena simultaneously. They traditionally, a Buddha is said to have such a type of mind, such a type of consciousness, omniscient consciousness, directly perceiving every phenomena that exists simultaneously. Just like, you know, we can see the lines of your hand. A Buddha is is able to is said to be able to realize every phenomena in the universe simultaneously directly.
Not all phenomena exist for me. So not all phenomena are the same entity as my own mind. If it was, then I would have an omniscient mind. And God only knows I don’t have an omniscient mind. You know, we those phenomena which we individually perceive are the same entity as our individual minds.
Okay? The practitioner of the mind only stage has already established that there is no unitary, unchanging, independent self in the aggregates composed of the body and mind. In fact, the aggregates include all phenomena. So now he or she begins to look at the aggregates with greater precision. They begin to realize that the division of each moment into, an awareness of of an inner perceiving mind and external perceived object is simply a fabrication of mind.
You know, we we talked about this last week when we talked about the term, Vijñāna, a division of of consciousness into subject object. That this is simply a fabrication. It doesn’t exist in fact. It’s only a conceptual invention. That in fact, external objects are the fabrication of mind.
External objects are the fabrication of mind. So it’s very in mind only, it’s good to use the the illustration, the example of a dream. It’s very helpful. I’ll read a quote. In a dream, one experiences moment by moment inner perceiving moments of consciousness, aware of seemingly outer perceived objects.
For example, one experiences an inner perceiving eye consciousness, which sees a seemingly outer perceived tire, and one becomes afraid. You know, you’re you’re in a dream. Okay? And there’s a there you see. There’s there’s you in the dream, and there’s a tiger in the dream.
And there there’s a sense that one’s eye consciousness is perceiving an external tiger, external to the eye consciousness which is seeing the tiger of the dream person. And yet, when we wake up, one realizes there was no outer perceived object. There was no outer perceived tiger at all other than the mind than the mind itself. Both the inner perceiving moments of consciousness and the outer perceived objects were only different manifestations of the mind. Both the eye consciousness and the tiger seen by the eye consciousness were simply manifestations of the mind.
This shows that the mere appearance of seemingly outer perceived objects is not any proof that such things exist in absolute terms. In fact, there is no proof that there is any substance other than mind anywhere. Furthermore, the Buddha himself thought the three realms of existence are merely mind. You know, in a dream, there’s this you know, one sees a tiger in a dream, and one becomes afraid. You don’t think that that a tiger appears to There’s a reason that dream figure becomes afraid.
When it’s not we the dream figure must see that tiger as a threat, as seen something being external to itself and threatening its life. But when we wake up, we realize that both the dream figure and the dream tiger were simply plays of the mind. They were the same entity as the mind. They weren’t something external to the mind. Though the though the the tiger appeared to the dream figure to be external to itself, in fact, wasn’t.
It was it was merely an appearance, a false appearance. To the person in the dream, the tiger appeared to be external to itself out there in the world, and it felt threatened. But that appearance was false. A tiger at no time existed external to the dream figure. They were all simply plays of the mind.
So this means that there is there is no difference in entity or nature between mind and matter. That the mind mind and matter are not different substances. Matter is is not matter is empty. And we begin to enter introduce the word empty. Matter is empty of separate independent nature, the net of mind.
Matter is empty of empty. Empty means an absence, lacking. Matter lacks an a separate independent existence of mind. Matter and mind, the mind which is perceiving a particular matter, is not a different substance than that object, than that matter. The same there’s no substantial difference between the two.
And what we mean by this is going to become clear, specifically in terms of mind only. If we say this another way, ultimately, each moment of experience is empty of a different nature of the perceiver and the perceived object. There’s not that the subject and the object are not different natures. They’re one entity. So if we and I’m quoting again.
On reflection, one can see that the Śrāvaka. So Śrāvaka means hearer. It’s a Sanskrit term, the hearer stage. The Śrāvaka approach is similar to removing suffering in a dream by recognizing that the person in the dream is not really oneself. The Cittamātra, that is to say mind only, approach is like removing suffering by realizing that both the cause of the suffering, for example the fire or the tiger, and the person’s suffering are both nothing more than the play of the mind.
Realizing that, one realizes that the fire or the tiger and the one suffering are empty of any reality of their own. Furthermore, recognizing that it is the mind producing both, one could choose to dream of whatever one wanted to. Not only is one liberated from the illusion of self, one is liberated from the sense of powerlessness. That sense of powerlessness prevents one realizing one’s true nature and limits one’s capacity to feel compassion. So in a dream where we dream about a tiger, we dream about fire.
Both the tiger and the fire in a dream are not mind, but they are not separate entities from the mind. That is, they do not exist external to the mind. The eye consciousness perceiving the tiger and the tiger that appears are both manifestations or plays of the mind, like like the play of the water and the the the waves on the ocean. They simply you know, they like, you know, we’ll use this example, this this metaphor of an ocean. The tiger appears to exist external to the mind, to the dream eye consciousness.
It appears that way. But this is a false appearance. So we got we we we got we became acquainted with false appearances back at the hearer stage. The eye there’s an eye which appears. It appears very real.
It appeared and it has the characteristics of being unitary, unchanging, independent. That appeared. But we begin to understand. We’ve we’ve developed, some skill, sophistication in understanding that that just because something appears doesn’t mean it exists, that there are falsities in the world. This this particular eye is a falsity.
I I’ve never been able to find it, though it appears. I no longer am captivated by it. It no longer fools me. Likewise, at this stage, we begin to to question the validity of these external appearances. That though things appear to exist external, do they in fact exist that way?
And that the may only say, no. In fact, they don’t. This is a false appearance. That the the this external appearance of things existing external to the mind arises under the influence of ignorance. That the perceiver and the perceived object are not different substances, but are one and the same substances.
So the mind only school goes on to assert that just as this is true of our dreams, so again and again coming back to this dream, our dream experience is equally true of our waking consciousness, Our waking experiences as well. The experiencing subject and the experiencing experienced object are not substantially different. Are not separate entities. They are not so they are not saying that that everything is one’s personal experience. There is a world out there that we share with others.
But the world is not a different substance than from mind. The objects of one’s own experience, of one’s own perception, are not different substances than one’s own perceiving consciousness, one’s own mind. They do not exist external to one’s mind. I think if you begin to, they appear to be separate entities, but that appearance is just as in a dream. Example, it’s a false it’s a falsity arising due to the force of ignorance.
So, yeah, this is the mind only school asserts that each living being has what is called a mind basis of all. In the mind only school, they posit eight types of consciousnesses. So this is a particular philosophic system of Buddhism, which they’re trying it’s a complete system. It tries to explain it has this very elaborate. It can great masters have taken this system as the basis of their practice.
It’s very it’s tremendously profound system. They assert there are eight types of consciousnesses. There are the six sense consciousnesses: eyes, ear, nose, tongue, body, mental consciousnesses. There is a seventh consciousness which is called afflictive consciousness afflictive consciousness. And then there is eighth consciousness, we’ll talk about that.
Then there is the eighth consciousness, which is called a mind basis of all. Now what they’re saying is, in terms of this mind basis of all, it is a neutral consciousness which serves as a repository for karmic seeds. A storehouse, sometimes it’s called the storehouse consciousness. It’s where the karmic seeds are implanted, are stored. The mind basis of all.
So when a seed is activated, these karmic seeds, when one of them is activated by a particular condition, it produces a perceiving subject and a perceived object. So there is the karmic seeds planted in this field, the mind basis of all. When that seed is activated, it produces both the perceiving consciousness and the perceived object. That’s why it is said that they are the same substance. Why?
Because they arise from the same identical substance, these karmic seeds. That’s why they’re said to be the same entity. There is this field of mind basis of all, which all our actions, our evolutionary history is encoded. Karmic seeds are implanted. When they meet specific conditions, a karmic seed is activated.
It ripens. It’s ripening. It produces both the subjective aspect and the objective aspect. These two are one entity, having the same root, having identical cause, source. Therefore, they’re called they’re not substantially different.
They’re the same substance. That’s where the idea of the same substance is coming from. They are both produced from the same cause, the same substance, an identical karmic seed. So we are continually experiencing the effects of this activation of karmic seeds. And we are continually creating new karmic seeds through our various actions, actions, physical actions, verbal actions, mental actions.
These karmic seeds are implanted on the mind basis of all. And it is this mind basis of all which takes rebirth, which carries with it our unique evolutionary history in the form of accumulated karmic seeds. Everything that we experience is a product of the ripening of these seeds. So we’ll have to we’ll stop there for for now. See, this is quite useful because it gets, you know, you know, the the karmic seeds as we have talked about are in a way like, you know, it’s not quite right.
But I think it’s useful. Like some kind of information encoded, like a DNA molecule. And a DNA molecule, in a way, is a carrier of information, in a way. And when if plant, say, you know, the plant seed carries some encoded information. When it’s placed in a particular environment, soil and water, it begins to interact with that environment in in very specific ways, specific interactions with that environment, it begins to organize its environment.
Different molecules are drawn into different bonding forms. And it begins to evolve a structure. This information is translated into a specific structure of a sprout, and the plant begins to grow. There’s some information which is translated into an actual organizing of its environment in a very structural fashion. Likewise, we can think of karmic seeds, these past actions which have been implanted on the mind basis of all.
When they come in contact with a particular type of condition, an environment, they begin to organize that environment. The information begins to be translated in terms of organizing that environment along specific ways of thinking, specific patterns of emotion, specific ways of interpreting, viewing, and shaping our world. And this world is not separate from the subjective experience of that world. It also organizes this sense of there’s a knower which is knowing that world. What can try to what we’re coming at is that we there’s a sense as long as we if there’s a sense that that all the goodies of the world and the bad things, If that which is beautiful and desirable, attractive, that which is repulsive, undesirable, unattractive lies outside of ourselves, then how are we going to relate with it?
In terms of desirable, if it exists external to ourselves, there will be a natural tendency to try to incorporate it into ourselves, to make it a to make it a permanent part of ourselves. Attachment arises. If we see that which is repulsive, unattractive, external to ourselves, we will seek to relate with it in terms of making it a permanent, not part of ourselves, of destroying it. We will develop anger and hatred. But from the mind only point of view, if we see that it’s simply it’s not an external reality, that it is simply a rising of appearances, of the ripening of karma, then we’re to relate with it in a radically different fashion.
We’re going to relate with it just as we would in a vivid dream. If you’ve ever experienced a vivid dream where you know that you’re dreaming and you you don’t you’re no longer captivated by the dream. It the dream may continue, but you don’t identify with this as a real tiger. This you know, there’s not the same overwhelming. One is not captivated.
One is not lost in the dream. One is able to maintain some kind of perspective even if the dream continues on. One experiences no longer experiences the fear and the suffering involved in being chased by a tiger. One simply realizes it’s simply the play of the mind. Nothing more.
So this is this is what we’re we’re the idea that we’re working towards here. But we’ll stop there for the night.