Audio recorded at Tibetan Buddhist Institute, Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 85-minute talk, a Tibetan Buddhist monk, referred to throughout as Geshe-la, shares a personal memoir of his escape from his village in Kham, Tibet in the 1980s and his journey to India. He recounts crossing into Nepal on foot, traveling by bus through the India-Nepal border (a grueling two-day process with extensive security checks due to Indira Gandhi’s recent assassination), staying with his aunt in Mussoorie before reaching Dharamshala where he had a brief audience with His Holiness the Dalai Lama and received an introduction letter from Geshe Ngawang Darje to Khensur Rinpoche. He then describes his arrival at Sera Monastery in South India, his ordination by Khensur Rinpoche and renaming as Jampa Gyaltsen, and his early monastic studies, including his struggles with monastery routines and simple food. The talk concludes with audience questions about his ordination name, his village origins, the cultural revolution, and memories of Tibet. Pitched at an established Buddhist community with some familiarity with monastic institutions.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 21122016SSTORY3 – KR.mp3
UUID: d986b313-4f79-4e55-b915-204ea6babab7
Teacher: HH Dalai Lama
Collection: Rinpoche's Story
Recorded at: Tibetan Buddhist Institute, Adelaide
Words: ~6,172
Then you go to Veda, you know, he said to me or something. It’s no worry, I can do everything. Thank you. So I said it’s naughty you know, easy, very hard just for me you know. So, it’s difficult however, it’s very beneficial for him.
Yeah, for my illness, you know. Very good. Okay. So many people is coming for my life story. Thank you so very much.
So last week I thought about my journey from my village to Nepal, you know? Nepal, Nepal. Nepal, yeah. Nepal. Nepal.
Nepal, you know. So today I am going to talk about my journey also, you know, from Nepal to India. Okay. So should have said there is two way. Those who have money, it’s a little bit easier for journey or traveling from Tibet to Nepal and Nepal to India. Yeah. But there is a huge number of Tibetans who also escaped out from Tibet to Nepal, then Nepal to, you know, India, which takes, you know, double time, you know, much more time. And, yeah, Geshe-la said money makes it easy sometimes.
Yeah. So after, you know, after fifteen days, what? And sorry, Geshe-la. Yes. I stayed in Nepal, you know.
Stayed in Nepal. Fifteen days, you know. Fifteen days. So after fifteen days, I left Nepal for India so it took me two days, you know, to get to New Delhi. To get to New Delhi? Yeah, to New Delhi. Two days, yeah.
Two days. And by bus. By bus, yeah. By bus with many people, you know. So then you said, you thought about your journey, just you know, from Nepal to India border, but a very long time you know, think, think, think. So Geshe-la said it was taking two days from Nepal to Delhi.
And, you know, the reason is that, you know, at the border between Nepal and India, it takes such a long time, you know, they just, you know, strip everything out. And yeah, that’s why it took two days from Nepal to India. So when I think when we arrived at the border between Nepal and India, in the morning, they arrive at the border in the morning, then since morning to evening, they just went through the bus, stripped everything and checked. And so that’s the reason, you know, it took so long, you know, all day long at the border. What do you call them running agent?
Geshe-la said, has anybody been by bus from Nepal to India? Yeah. Yeah. Of course, you’re already here. You know, you know.
Three of them. Yeah. So you know. Then two days later I arrived in Delhi. So I stayed in Delhi.
What? Delhi. Yeah. A week? One week.
Yeah. One week? A week, same. Yeah. A week.
Actually, I have, actually, I have you know, I have got another auntie, you know. She lives in Mussoorie. Mussoorie. Mussoorie. Mussoorie is just a little town.
What? Yeah. It’s in India. Mussoorie is a hill station. Yeah.
In North India. Yeah. You know, how his auntie ended up in Mussoorie—when His Holiness and many Tibetans who arrived in India, they actually settled in Mussoorie before Dharamsala. So his auntie’s still in Mussoorie. Yeah. So I wanted to see her and her family, you know.
Then at that time I was very fortunate. Because I met my auntie’s husband and her son. In Delhi? Yeah. Oh.
Who were staying in Delhi? Delhi. Delhi. Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. Geshe-la spent one week in Delhi. And, you know, Geshe-la said he’s very fortunate that his auntie’s husband and son, they were in Delhi, so he was very fortunate, you know. Oh, that’s good. So they were staying in Delhi, you know.
So, and then Geshe-la traveled to Mussoorie with them, you know, and you know, and I stayed in my auntie’s house for two months. What? Yeah. Two months. Really?
That time, in summer in India, you know, very nice in Mussoorie because Mussoorie is cold and high. So that time in the summer in India, in Delhi very, very, you know, hot, sometimes 40, 45 degrees, you know, very hot. In the north. Northern India. But in Mussoorie very nice because it is high. So Mussoorie is a really beautiful place. It’s up in the mountains and even the trees, you know, snow.
He said that many Indians, they go when, during summertime, those who are, you know, wealthy, they go, you know, escape away from Delhi to, you know, the mountainside. Geshe-la said, you know, the Mussoorie, the trees are so beautiful, you know. It’s not like Australian trees. That’s what he said, alright. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For example, in Kangaroo Island, you know.
You know. The the the the structure—meaning the design or the the structure of the tree is very ugly. You know? On Kangaroo Island. Yeah.
Yeah. Geshe-la said, Mussoorie has very beautiful trees, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Straight, lots of beautiful leaves, you know.
So during that time I was very happy to see my auntie and her family. My auntie looked like my mom. Mhmm. My auntie looked like my mom. Mhmm.
So there was a lot of love. A lot of love for him. Yeah. My aunt’s name is Sonam Drolkar, you know? Sonam Drolkar.
Songji, you know? Buddha. Khandro, you know Khandro? Dakini. Dakini Songji Khandro.
Songji Khandro, yeah. That’s my auntie’s name, but now she passed away, you know? And one day, you know, we talked with my auntie’s husband, his name is Kungalodi, you know, Kungalodi. Kungalodi. Kungalodi.
Carefully. Kungalodi. So one day I talked with Kungalodi about ceremonies because I wanted a good teacher. So, Geshe-la, you know, he came to India so that he could ordain and wanted to become a monk. You know, in order to ordain and become a monk, you need a good teacher. And one day he was talking with his auntie’s husband.
His name is, you know. His name is Kungalodi. Yeah. And one day they discussed and Geshe-la talked about, you know, his desire and his wishes with him. Yeah.
About becoming a monk and wanting to have a good teacher. Yeah. So then he said, don’t worry. Then he said to me, don’t worry because I have a good lama or good teacher, you know, he lives in Dharamsala. His name is Geshe Ngawang Darje, you know, probably Geshe Ngawang Darje, but now passed away, you know, Geshe Ngawang Darje.
We will ask him, and then we will know what to do. Then few days later I think we left Mussoorie and went to Dharamsala. We went to Dharamsala, you know, Kungalodi and his son and also his daughter. Then I think two days later we arrived in Dharamsala. So one day, they wanted to go, you know, as what Geshe-la said, you know, his auntie’s husband told him, don’t worry.
I have a good lama who lives in Dharamsala. And probably you all know that Geshe Ngawang Darje is one of the the teachers at the Tibetan library. You know? So and so they one day they traveled from Mussoorie to Dharamsala, but it took two days. Usually it only takes one day.
But Geshe-la said because that time, you know, India’s prime minister, you know, her name is Indira Gandhi. Indira Gandhi. Indira Gandhi. You know, Indira Gandhi was assassinated at that time.
Yeah. Yeah. So the the whole—was it ’85? ’85. ’84 or ’85.
’84 maybe. Yeah. ’84 or ’85. Yeah. Not sure. So Geshe-la said the the person who assassinated Indira Gandhi was one of the Punjabi people, a Sikh person.
Killed her in Delhi. In Delhi. Yeah. Yeah? So one thing is when they went from Mussoorie to Dharamsala, they had to go through Chandigarh. Chandigarh. And Chandigarh is one of the capital cities of Punjab. Punjab, yeah. That’s the reason, you know. That’s the reason, yeah.
There were lots of blocks, you know, roadblocks, you know. So two days later, we arrived in Dharamsala, then I also stayed in Dharamsala one week, over a week. A week. So he spent there a week. And Geshe-la said it was very wonderful and fortunate—two pieces of good news at that time.
One thing is the first meeting with His Holiness during that, you know, time in Dharamsala. And the second, Geshe Ngawang Darje introduced Khensur Rinpoche as his teacher. So this Khensur Rinpoche, our Rinpoche, you know. Yep. He wrote a letter to introduce him to be his student.
Mhmm. Those two—one, I wanted to see the Lama, you know, with probably 40 people. 14 people. 14? One-four, you know, 14 people.
So before this, I said many prayers and had good motivation to see him. Prayers recalling the Lama. Prayers and devotion had a very good impression. There you go. Understood.
So when we saw His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, you know. That time I was so lucky. Then he, you know, then he asked, you know, so many kids, so many questions, one by one. So it was really great, that meeting with His Holiness. Geshe-la said there were 14 altogether.
And His Holiness asked questions one by one for everyone in the room and asked basically which part of Tibet you’re coming from, what, you know, area, and are you going to stay here and study or become a monk or stay or are you going back to Tibet, etcetera. You know, for everyone, you know, he asked questions like that. Really? That’s right. Yeah.
That’s correct. Correct. Then then he gave us blessed pills. Blessed pills and blessed string. What? The string, yeah.
So, he said, and also, I thought, I thought His Holiness is the Lama that time. I wanted to become a monk, so I thought His Holiness could give me ordination vows. Isn’t it? Yes.
What did Geshe-la say? Who said they understood? You tell me. So Geshe-la was at the time he was young and he had this energy, and he wasn’t even thinking about, you know, what he what he thought to ask. Now quite often, you know, Geshe-la today or, you know, nowadays, he thinks about that time, you know, what he said to him.
He gets a little bit frightened, you know, because, you know, His Holiness is a really great lama, and he has so much, you know, schedule, you know, and now he was reflecting on that time, you know, he was a little bit, oh, yeah. So then he said, oh, you are a little bit late. You are a little bit late because I gave, you know, ordination vows to few monks. They have gone to South India, Drepung Monastery, Ganden Monastery, Sera Monastery. So His Holiness was so kind that he said that, you know, you are a little bit late, you know.
Because I already gave ordination a few months, a few days ago, so you are a bit late. And they already gone back to Southern India entering the monasteries: Sera, Drepung, Ganden. That’s what Geshe-la said. Mhmm. Yeah. So meeting His Holiness and not only that, you know, asking him to ordain me—Geshe-la thinks this is very fortunate, you know, once in his life.
You know, he always thinks that, you know, it’s very fortunate that he was able to ask His Holiness. Mhmm. Okay. And secondly, you know, Kungalodi, you know? Kungalodi, he is my auntie’s husband, you know.
We, Kungalodi and I went to see Geshe Ngawang Darje. Geshe Ngawang Darje. And then we asked, you know, about Sera Monastery and for him to be my teacher. Then he said to us, don’t worry because I have a good friend. His name is Geshe Ngawang Tenzin, our Rinpoche, you know?
His name is Geshe Ngawang Tenzin, so now he’s abbot of Sera Je monastery. So I will give a letter to take to him. So it was really wonderful, as Geshe-la said. He met his auntie’s husband, Kungalodi, and Geshe Ngawang Darje.
And Geshe Ngawang Darje said, don’t worry. You know, I have a very good friend who at present is Sera Je Monastery Abbot. And I will write a letter. You take that letter with you. And Geshe-la said, you know, this is very fortunate for him, you know, having that meeting with Geshe Ngawang Darje and not only that, he introduced such a wonderful teacher, Khensur Lobsang Tenzin.
You know, Rinpoche’s name is Lobsang Tenzin. And Geshe-la said, this is one of the great milestones in his life and very fortunate, you know, for meeting, you know, and having a great teacher in my life. And also Geshe Ngawang Darje and Rinpoche were classmates, right? What? Classmate.
Classmate. Same class, you know? The same class. Classmate. Classmate and also same lama, you know, teacher.
Then he gave, you know, he gave me 20 rupees. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 20 rupees for cup of tea or food. At that time it was rather a lot of money. A lot of money. 1984.
Yeah. 1984, 20 rupees is very, a lot of money. Yeah. And also Sundari Markus. Sundari Markus.
Geshe Khartak? You know? Geshe Khartak? Geshe Khartak? Geshe Khartak?
Altogether 40 rupees. For for lunch, for cup of tea, for chai, you know? Mhmm. As I said, it’s always like this, you know, one of the greatest, you know, things that happen in your life, you know, you remember all the time—or either way, the other side, you know, if you have one of the saddest things in your life or one of the most difficult things in your life, you also remember that in your life. So Geshe-la said that he’s very fortunate, you know, he can able to think about those very, you know, great things that happened in his life.
He always very clearly remembers all those events that took place. Yeah. Then exactly, after one week, we left, you know, we left Dharamsala and went to Bangalore, you know, by train. By train, yeah. Train.
Two days later, we arrived in Bangalore, you know, Bangalore. Then we went to Sera Monastery, near Kushalnagar, you know, Kushalnagar. By bus, six hours, then six hours later, we arrived in Kushalnagar. So from after Bangalore to Kushalnagar, six hours by bus, and then Kushalnagar is very near to Sera, and from Kushalnagar, he and the other two monks and two laypeople, they all got together in a small auto—sorry, no, car. There was one car that, you know, they hired and they went to the monastery.
Yeah. Then the first time we went to Trehor Khamtsen. Trehor Khamtsen, you know. First time. So, you know, once you’re in Sera—entering the monastery, in Sera, there are two colleges, Sera Je and Sera Me.
And each college has 13 districts. We call them Khamtsen. Yeah. And Geshe-la and Rinpoche, they all belong to Trehor Khamtsen. And so every monk who arrives from Tibet, first they have to go to Trehor Khamtsen, you know, the reception, you know.
Yeah. Because we’re part of Trehor, which is how the Khamtsen is located in the monastery. In Tibet, there is a Trehor area. And those people when they go to India or the monastery, they have to go to that particular district, you know. So once they arrive at the district, the Khamtsen, Geshe-la said there was a puja happening, you know, in Trehor Khamtsen, a small temple.
And the disciplinarian asked him, you know, which part of Tibet, you know—even within the Kham area, there are many villages—what village you’re coming from. And they ask very thoroughly, you know, have you got any relatives in the monastery or have you got anyone who knows you, etcetera. They ask all the questions, you know. You know, there are two things. If someone arrives and they don’t have any relative or anybody they know, the Khamtsen has a list of classes, you know, the the Vinaya, Madhyamaka, and the Prajñāpāramitā.
There’s a class list. You know? And if you don’t have anybody, you know, friend or relatives, there is a list of who’s the next person to take that person. So they have to make sure, you know, before they do that, you know, they have to ask all the questions. You know, once they give away from that list, then that’s problematic.
You know? They can’t—you know, sometimes people don’t say and then they say later, I have this and that, and that’s a bit too, you know, chaotic, you know. So they asked, you know, do you have relatives, etcetera. And Geshe-la said, I don’t have relatives, but I got a letter that was given by Khensur Rinpoche’s classmate, Geshe Ngawang Darje, and he asked me to give this letter to the present Abbot of Sera Je monastery. And then they discussed within, you know, the administration and said, oh, he got the letter, you know, maybe we should look at what the letter is about.
And then I was involved in there. So they called the Abbot’s assistant. At the time, I was Rinpoche’s assistant, junior assistant. And I went down there to the district Khamtsen. And I took the letter.
I ran back to the monastery, the Sera Je temple, and I gave it to Rinpoche, and Rinpoche opened it. And he said, oh, okay. And he sent me back to the Khamtsen, said, you know, okay. I will look after him—bring him with you. And then so I went back down there.
And so Geshe-la said, I came down there and I just leaned towards the door like this. Yeah. Exactly. And Geshe-la said, he looks like a very naughty boy. Yeah, exactly.
That time, you know, I think—I think very clearly. You know, he leaned, just sat there, leaned towards the door. Yeah.
And then, Tenzin Gyatso, you know, I think, you know. That one, you know. He remembers very clearly his posture. Yeah. And just leaning and just rubbing his nose and, you know.
Then then you know, his, you know, his feet were very big, you know. Geshe-la was surprised—my feet were so big, you know. So that time I thought, he was a little bit rude, you know. Exactly, you know. You know, oh, he looks a bit naughty-ish, you know, kind of guy.
So, he’s talking about me. 1984. Yeah. 1984. So, you know, 31 or 32 years ago, you know. Yeah, I was a teenager. Yeah. Teenage.
Yeah, the same, you know. This Tenzin and I are the same age, you know. So I took Geshe-la, you know, with me with his bag. Lots of bags. And we went to Rinpoche’s place in the monastery and then ever since, he’s been there.
Yeah. At that time, Geshe, our, you know, teacher, Geshe Lobsang Palden. Yeah, he was there, you know? Mhmm. But now passed away.
Mhmm. Yeah. So at that time, you know, we were in a very small place, you know, inside the monastery. Now the monastery is very spread out. And Geshe-la said, Khensur Lobsang Palden, who is one of Rinpoche’s senior students who earlier this year passed away in Australia.
Geshe-la said he was there. Yeah. Then next day, Geshe-la said there’s another student of Rinpoche, you know, he took—he wasn’t ordained yet, you know. He took him all around the monastery, you know, like a pilgrimage, you know. He saw that the child was a layperson, you know. Layperson.
Yeah. Still a layperson. So there is a traditional way of approaching ordination, you know. You have to go through it systematically, you know. There is a discipline, there is administration, there is the temple cleaner.
And the administration took Geshe-la—there’s what’s called the newly arrived to be ordained, and they have to go through the disciplinarian of the Khamtsen, then the disciplinarian of Sera Je monastery. Mhmm. And then from there, they have to be taken to the Sera Je Abbot, who ordained Geshe-la, which was Rinpoche at the time. So, you know, Geshe Lobsang Palden took him. Geshe-la—sorry.
Geshe Lobsang Palden took him. Yeah. To see the Trehor Khamtsen disciplinarian, then Sera Je, then the Abbot. Yeah. Abbot. On that day. Yeah.
He was ordained, you know. So he was ordained and Rinpoche was asking, you know, shall I give you the name Tenpai Gyaltsen or Jampa Gyaltsen? And Jampa Gyaltsen is Rinpoche’s ordination name. And Tenpai Gyaltsen—Rinpoche was thinking about, you know, what should I give this newly ordained monk as a name. You know?
And then finally, Rinpoche decided on the name Jampa Gyaltsen. So when they become a monk, they shave all the hair and just leave a little bit. That has to be—when the person becomes ordained, the Abbot has to cut this one, and the moment he cuts this hair, he becomes a monk. Yeah. From that onwards, the name Jampa Gyaltsen is his name.
So from there onwards, you know, three months, he didn’t enter the prayer assembly class. There is a number of texts that have to be memorized. Those texts are recited during the prayer assembly class. You know, there is a gathering—monks gathering—to do prayer. You know, those prayers have to be memorized.
You cannot take any text. It is kind of compulsory. You know? And if the disciplinarian comes around, if you’re not reciting—so anyway, Geshe-la said, you know, at the beginning, debate, you know, debating on the Collected Topics, you know. These are, you know, he actually went through, you know, during those three months, you know.
So at the time, he asked, you know, to go receive teachings from Rinpoche. And he went there and Rinpoche had a few other students he was teaching. For example, you know, Pari Rinpoche, a few years back, he came one night. Mhmm. Taught here at—you know, he was there, and there were a few other monks.
And then Geshe-la went to Rinpoche’s teaching, the first teaching in the monastery. And Rinpoche told him, you know, in Tibet, there’s a way of, you know, clapping your hands, you know. And there’s a way of doing it, you know. So Rinpoche stood up, and he showed him, you know, how to do it. You know?
Yeah. Yeah. So very important, you know? Yeah. Important. So Geshe-la went the first one—one week of teaching with our Rinpoche, but he was teaching already those few other monks and they were already advanced.
And Geshe-la said that he couldn’t understand. He needed actually a lower level than what they were being taught, you know. So not only that, Rinpoche usually teaches for a very long hour. Yeah. One and a half hours exactly.
Nine o’clock. Yeah. To eleven, 11:30. Yeah. You know. And sometimes Geshe-la felt a little bit sleepy. And sometimes even he could hear the lunch bell, but he was still teaching, you know.
So there was one very long stick next to Rinpoche and when he was sleeping, he just went—wake him up. Yeah. So we will stop here. Geshe-la said he will, you know, continue teaching next time. And to talk about his life, you know, continue.
There’s a lot of things during his study, you know, in the monastery and the food in the monastery and— Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. And if you have questions then—must be, you know, a little bit slow, you know. Yeah?
Yeah. Please. When you finally got to Sera, were there other people in Trehor Khamtsen that you recognized from your area—from Rongbatsa where you’d left home? Were there already people there that you knew? So, yeah, Geshe-la said, you know, he got a few, you know, he hasn’t got that many from his village, but there’s a few there.
Yeah. And actually, one monk, a Geshe, he wasn’t there. He came later. And later, you know, I think two months later, you know. Two months later.
Yeah. You know. You know. Yeah. Yeah.
His name is Geshe Kelsang, was it? Geshe Kelsang. Is that right? Yeah. Palden?
No. Geshe Kelsang. No. You know. Geshe Kelsang.
Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. You can, you know, speak Tibetan. Yeah?
Sorry. Geshe-la, last week you said when you crossed over from Tibet to Nepal, you had some official papers which allowed you to cross the border. Tonight, you told us you traveled from Nepal and again crossed the border into India. What were those papers? Were they a Chinese passport, a Tibetan passport, or something from the government—and why did India let you through?
Yeah. I had, you know, a passport, a Chinese passport. Yeah. Yeah. Mostly, you know, when people left Tibet—Your mother? Yeah, you know, I escaped, is it? Without a document, they escaped. Yeah. Escaped.
Geshe-la said that he got lucky, you know, he got a Chinese passport for crossing over from Tibet to Nepal. But many monks who escaped out from Tibet, they don’t have the document. They just wait for night and then luck, you know, they can cross over, you know, different routes near Nepal. But they don’t go over the border—different areas. From Nepal—Geshe-la said last week, he left the document and passport in Nepal.
And from Nepal, he went into India without a document. Yeah. Because Geshe-la thought he’s not going back. Yeah. And yeah.
You got a question? Yes. Geshe-la, you can speak in Tibetan. No. In English. I’ll help you. Really? Okay. I thought you could speak.
Yeah. Mhmm. Geshe-la, when you received ordination, you received ordination from Khensur Rinpoche and became Jampa Gyaltsen. But when the two anis received ordination, they became Tenzin. Mhmm. Why is that? Mhmm. It’s different. Yes.
Geshe-la got actual ordination, not the novice ordination, what you call getsul. So Geshe-la had the getsul vows from His Holiness after two or three months. So that’s why he gave him—he gave the same name. Your friend, you know. Mhmm.
Oh, God. Your friend, you know. Yeah. Mhmm. Mhmm.
You came from a very small village. Uh-huh. In Tibet. Yeah. And then you went to Delhi. Geshe-la said, you know, he didn’t just come straight from the small village to just pop into Delhi.
It’s gradually, you know. When he left from his village, he went to Chamdo. Yeah. Chamdo is much bigger than his village. Oh, that’s right. And then once he arrived in Lhasa, it’s much bigger.
Mhmm. And then once he went from Lhasa to Nepal, Nepal is much, much, much bigger. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Nepal is more like India, you know, really.
Yeah. Yeah. Big, you know. Then food. Sorry.
What? What about—you’re spending some of your time? The the good thing is that when they got to Delhi, there was a Tibetan restaurant, you know. In Delhi. You know, there was one. Yeah.
In the monastery, you know, when they entered the monastery, then it’s very different, you know. From Tibet, I heard lots of stories—people bring their tsampa, you know, etcetera. But once they get to the monastery, at that time, around the eighties, you know, food was really poor. You know? Yeah.
I was—you know, we were—you know, at the time, we had to go on kitchen roster—for my time, we had to do eight days. Today, there’s only two days. Eight days really hard. But the rice, you had to clean it. Every morning, two people almost for an hour had to clean the rice to get the stones out—you sit back like this, and the stone sits behind, and you just two people just continue doing like that.
And that’s the rice. And the dal, you know, the lentil. And here, we can make a very rich lentil, you know, with different flavors, put vegetables and spinach and all we can think about. But at the time in India, it was just lentil with a bit of tomato, onion, and some, you know, cooked fried and then put the lentil. That’s it, really.
There’s not really—when you put the lentil on the rice, because there’s a lot of water. So in the lentil, there’s a few lentils sitting on the top and most of the rice—the watery lentil, you know. The most difficult for new arrivals from Tibet is the lentil because they’re not used to it. And in Tibet, this kind of lentil they give to the horses or the animals, you know. You know, it’s rugged.
Mhmm. It’s the most—there’s quite a struggle, you know, but they get used to it, you know, slowly. But at the first, new arrivals, when they give lentil, it’s really difficult. You know? Lentils—kind of dal.
I like lentil. You know? But Geshe-la said, he’s very fortunate. Yeah. You know?
He likes lentil. Geshe-la—No. Alright. Hang on. Is it okay to ask you what your name was before you became ordained?
Okay. Yeah. At that time, my name was Yama Dorje. Yama Dorje. So Geshe-la said, you know, he got that name because, you know—it is true that Geshe-la’s brothers and sisters passed away.
So therefore, they gave him that particular name. Okay. Ani? Geshe-la, I’m curious to know what happened to the frozen yak butter. I’m sorry.
Sorry. I told you—the yak has no butter. No. No.
Yak butter. The male is a yak. Yeah. Alright. So—The female is called dri.
Dri. Dri. Yeah. Dri. Okay, okay, okay.
It was, you know, it was to sell in Lhasa. Yeah. Yeah. Hi, Geshe-la. I missed the first part of your talk.
What was the name of your town, your village? And how far is it away from your village to Chengdu? Yeah. My village is Rongbatsa, you know? Rongbatsa.
Not long. From Rongbatsa to Ganzi, you know? Ganzi, I think by car nearly one hour. Okay. Really?
Only half an hour. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly half. I’m not sure.
Then I think from Rongbatsa to Chengdu—is it? Chengdu city? Sichuan province. Yeah. Chengdu, is that?
Yeah. Chengdu, yes. Chengdu is the capital. Yeah. Capital city.
I went to—I’ve been there, but Chengdu, no. You asked me. Oh, I thought you went over there and then to Lhasa. No. No.
No. You went straight from this way to Lhasa. Chengdu would be like going backwards, you know. Actually, Ganzi is well known, you know, in the Kham area. Yep. Even Geshe-la said Rongbatsa is a very tiny town, you know.
Yeah. But actually Ganzi is more like the next town. And it’s only 40—30 minutes by car—it’s not far away from Ganzi. Right? Ganzi is—from Ganzi to Ganzi.
Oh, Ganzi. At the time, our group, it took all day. But that time, the road wasn’t that good. But nowadays, from Chengdu—the Tibetan call Chengdu— from Chengdu to Geshe-la’s place, if you have a good four-wheel drive, it will take one day.
From early morning, you reach by night because the road is so good. You know? Yeah. That’s—There’s a tunnel. Yeah. And many, you know, bridges built. You know?
Mhmm. So today, it takes probably one day from Chengdu to Geshe-la’s town, Ganzi. So Geshe-la, how was the education there back in Tibet back in 1984? In primary school, did you learn any Chinese or you didn’t learn any—there was— No. No. But I went to school at that time. Yeah.
For just one month. One month. For one month? Yeah. Yeah.
Because there was a monk who came last year, I think, from India. We could communicate in Chinese. His Chinese is really good. Where? Here?
In here, the monk came over from India, I think. Okay. Four months or three months. Oh, here. In Mandala.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. It’s normal now. He’s really friendly, you know.
So during the Cultural Revolution, Geshe-la’s family, you know, they put the black hat, you know. They have this particular way of treating, you know. But his family, because it was kind of—before the Cultural Revolution, his family was kind of a wealthy family. So when the Cultural Revolution came, it was very difficult for those who were from wealthy families. So they treated them harshly, and when they went to school, they also had to carry that burden.
So it’s difficult. Geshe-la said he only spent one or two months in school, you know. And the Geshe Jamyang Tenzin you’re talking about who can speak Chinese, you know, there’s a difference—you know, they didn’t have that kind of label, you know, so he could—and Geshe Jamyang went to school and learned— Geshe Jamyang, you know, was at school for six years, you know. Yeah.
Full time. Yeah. You see, Jamyang Tenzin, you know, who you’re talking about. He spent, you know, around six years. Yeah. Yeah.
In school. Yeah. So at the time, you know, they were not so much encouraged to learn Chinese, and they were more focused on Tibetan, you know. Yeah. That time I wasn’t, you know, interested in Chinese.
Yeah. Learning Chinese. Yeah. Yeah. More Tibetan.
Tibetan. For me, I grew up—I grew up basically in China. When I was growing up, I always had this impression, this concept of Tibet being part of China, you know, just a different ethnic group. Yeah. I never thought—I never—I didn’t know about the history of Tibet at all.
I thought it’s people dressed differently, you know, being weird and stuff. But I never knew the history of that. And I thought, you know, everybody would speak Chinese. That’s the main language there. I thought Tibetan was a dialect. Yeah. It’s a completely different language. Yeah. Totally.
So yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. How was it?
But when I left my village, that time I could speak a little bit Chinese, you know, but I forgot. Geshe-la said, you know, even though he spent a very minimum time in learning, he could still—and when he came out from Tibet, he could still speak a little bit Chinese. But now totally forgot. For Geshe-la, in the present, if I had to learn English and Chinese, if he focused on Chinese, he probably could learn faster in Chinese. Yeah.
Why? Do you understand? Yeah. Because Geshe-la studied—Geshe-la said, you know, when he was young, he studied a little bit, one or three months, in Chinese. But Geshe-la said, you know what it is? It’s the environment, hearing it a lot. Yeah.
Yeah. And all that. And also the energy and all that. Yeah. Exactly. 100% in.
So Geshe-la, you have been away from Tibet a very long time. What do you most miss about Tibet? Sorry? So Geshe-la? Yeah?
You have been away from Tibet. Yeah. A very long time. Yeah. What do you most miss about Tibet? It’s the environment, you know, the views and how it is laid out in Tibet, you know, the landscape. And not only that, and also people my same age, you know, he sometimes misses a lot. Yeah.
Friends, all that. Okay. Thank you for being here tonight. Thank you.
Yeah. No. No. Okay. How was my English?