Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. Lama Zopa Rinpoche clarifies emptiness using the analogy of a running horse: just as the horse is merely a label on physical aggregates and has no independent existence, so the “I” is merely imputed on our aggregates. In this 42-minute teaching, he explains why most practitioners fail to recognize this distinction, blocking their path to meditation. He teaches the four-step analytical method for identifying the refuted object: what must be negated. The core instruction: the I falsely appears as existing from its own side (somewhere inside the chest), yet analysis reveals nothing findable. This false appearance is meditation’s target. He emphasizes why realizing the emptiness of self must precede emptiness of body and mind. For practitioners already studying Mādhyamika philosophy.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 19 WWNN.mp3
UUID: 39f199fc-589f-4bf4-889b-b7c86131eb47
Teacher: Lama Zopa Rinpoche 1
Collection: y What the World Needs Now 1987 Audios (Lama Zopa Rinpoche 1)
Date: 1987 (exact day not recorded)
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 41.7 minutes
Words: ~2,775
Outside of this ignorance is what yeah, okay. You should understand that, you see, you should understand that what doesn’t exist is not the merely imputed I. What doesn’t exist is not the I that is merely imputed on the aggregates. Not that. I’ll give you another example.
You see now, when the horse runs when the horse runs, you see, the horse’s body is not horse. Horse mind is not horse. But there’s a when when the Aggregates is running, there’s a horse running. There’s a horse eating grass. There’s horse dancing, you know, when Aggregates dances.
There’s a horse on on this. There’s a horse running on this ice. There’s a horse running. You see? Then action running, aging, you see, carrying people.
You see, even though nothing of this is a horse. But this is enough. So the horse, you see, but depending on these aggregates, the horse, merely imputed on the aggregates, you see, that exists. So because aggregates are running, the horse is running. Aggregates is running, you see on that imputed as a horse.
On that aggregates, a horse is It’s merely imputed, you know, by the thought on that aggregates. And as aggregates that’s running, so you see horse running, so that is merely imputed on that action of aggregates. Like this. So whatever action of aggregates does, it’s horse like this and this and that. Is imputed on that.
So so you see now, now horse, the horse which runs, you know, lays down, eats grass, carrying person, is not not other than is not other than the not other than the host that which is merely imputed, which has all this ability, you know, that carrying person and other people can carry, you know, can make money, you know, can carry, you know. Now this, you see, that horse is not other than the horse which is merely imputed on the aggregates. So what the horse that is merely imputed on that aggregates, you see? Satisfied by that. You know, that there’s a horse there, that there’s a horse, you know, and doing activities as aggregates based, the aggregates does activities.
But you see, but but when you look at us, but you see, but when so like this, you see, the mere appearance as the horse runs, as you see horse running, you see, in your how’s that? Yeah. Yeah. The mere appearance, you see, The mere appearance of the base that’s running, you see. So as soon as this base appears, so this new appearance, then we see one label, a horse, that particular base, particular character shape.
You see? Oh, horse. There’s a horse. What’s the one imputed on that? So that’s all.
The horse which starts eating, carrying person, the people can make money, all this, you know, that’s all nothing else than horse. Nothing else more than this horse. But you see, when we look at the horse, it doesn’t appear in this way. Horse does not appear in this way. There’s a horse from its own side.
You see? There’s a horse from this side. On this base, in aggregates, you see, there’s a horse from this side. Or, or, or, that is one, you see. A person who recognizes the refuted object, for that person, you see, on the base aggregates, so there’s a horse from some sides that disappears.
For the person who doesn’t recognize what the refuted object is, what truly existent, truly existent, things existent by itself, the person who doesn’t know, doesn’t recognize this, and they cannot identify the refuted object. For that person, see, for that person can be said indistinguishable. The aggregates and label holds indifferentiable. Indistinguishable. Indistinguishable.
A person who doesn’t know, doesn’t recognize is being upset, you see, how it would appear who cannot analyze who cannot analyze, you see, now who cannot analyze, you know, what means refuted object to truly exist, truly exist in the horse and the middle level horse who cannot differentiate, you see, Distinguish. Then, you see, for that person would appear on the base aggregates and the label on the horse as inseparable. Yeah. Let me call it undefincible, undistinguishable. Base and the label.
No? Based on the label. Yeah. Yeah. Undistinguishable.
And this can you see, the person cannot differentiate. What what what is the base and what’s the label is, he cannot differentiate. You see? And if by if he cannot analyze his view, he cannot analyze his view, you see, what’s the base and what’s the label, cannot. You know?
So yeah, his appearance, you see, his appearance is, yeah, his appearance is undefincible, you know, those two. So that is self. Maybe when we think of I, when we think of instance, this is a good example. When we think of I, you see, that very to that is very easy. We don’t see that.
We feel, but that could be I’m not sure, but most people may not feel the aggregates. Aggregates is one with the I. Men not feel this. You know, undifferentiable. Because because this the real I, the I, the I, the I existing from its own side.
Yeah. First of all, the I is merely imputed on these aggregates. So when it appears as true, the refuted object appears, you see, when I appears as an existing from its own side, so it appears on the aggregates. Immediately embedded on the aggregates, it appears existing on the aggregates. So and even that so even that, you know, even this, yeah.
So even even that, you know, one does not feel this real I existing from inside, in the head or in the fingers, inside the fingers or inside the toes. Toes. Toes. Toes. Inside the toes, one does not feel the real I down there.
But one do definitely feel the I, you see, real I, existing real I in the sense of existing from some side, you see, in a particular location, you know, in the body, inside the body. When we don’t analyze, you see, one feels inside the body, inside. Not in stomach, not in neck, not in the neck, not in the mouth, nose, not in the nose, mouth. Oh, you see? But in but in the particular location, you see?
Between that, the above the belly, down below neck, somewhere there, somewhere there. Switch now. You see the, you see, as oneness, know, the aggregates, undefinciable know, with aggregates. It’s easy. It’s easy to easier than a flower vase, you see.
We don’t feel yeah. Anyway, don’t appear see, the table appears, you know, the flower vase, books, papers, you know, doesn’t appear in a similar way. Don’t feel like that. You know? You see?
More more as one is with the other case or has it, you know, undefincible base and level. So, anyway, from eye the eyes appearing like this, now we think of the body, mind. You see? When we now we think of the body. The body, you see?
Now body is a body doesn’t appear the body does not body, you see? When we think of body, when we look at our when we look at the body when when we think when we think of the body when we think of the body, you see, body appears the body label is appears indifferentiable with the base. You know, when you think of mind, mind is undifferentiable, mind undifferentiable with the base. You know? So but you see, when you but when you recognize the refuted object on both, you know, then you see the body, you know, you see on the base of the body, there’s body existing from its side.
On the base of the mind, there’s a mind existing from its own side, like how you feel with the eye. So So both see. Anyway, So anything that appears in existing form on one side, there’s no question. That’s completely false. That is a repeating object.
Starting from the I, anything that appears existing from its own side, that is a refuted object. That is empty. And that is what we should have definite understanding. That’s empty as it is empty, as they are empty. Even this so, you see, those who do not recognize what the refuted object is, putting the label and base and appearing undifferentiable cannot differentiate, cannot analyze the view, the person’s view.
So that itself is what it means the refuted object is. That the person should realize empty. So you see, so therefore, the reason why we cannot realize the emptiness of the body and mind before we realize the emptiness of the eye. Why? Why?
First, one has to realize emptiness of the I, not realize emptiness of the aggregates. Is because you can see, you can figure it out from these examples. You see, now, refuted object on the I, it’s very easy to That is very easy to recognize. You know? The re you see?
Real I unlabeled. You see? That is very easy to recognize. You know? You see, how the ah appears.
Very easy to recognize the refuted object on the I, imputed, merely imputed I. But you see, difficult to you don’t feel in similar way like that with the body and the mind, you see? More subtle, the more difficult to recognize the, you know, refuted object, which one has to realize empty. So because of that, in the teaching, says, Mādhyamika teachings, says that one should realize that emptiness I first before one realizes emptiness of the aggregates. So you see, now now this is so So similar to horse, you see.
I that is doing meditation, you know, The I that which is I that which is, you know, the I that which is merely imputed imputed on these aggregates that exists because that is able to do actions, that is able to do actions, you know, able to experience happiness often, able to abandon suffering and able to obtain happiness. The eye that which yeah. The eye which does all the activities activities, sleeping, working, sitting, eating, all this, that’s the eye, the imputed one, which is merely imputed on these aggregates. So now, you see? If there’s no I at all, then you see, There wouldn’t be action of the I.
There wouldn’t be object of the I. There wouldn’t be object. If there’s no I, there wouldn’t be any action in all these activities. There’s no I, there wouldn’t be actions. There wouldn’t be happiness, sufferings, you know?
So, you know, all these things, saṃsāra nirvana, all these things. There’s no there’s nothing that I belongs. Because there’s no I, so there’s nothing. There’s no I, so there wouldn’t be any there wouldn’t be my body, my mind, my money, my, you know, family, you know, my children, you know, my wife, my husband, you see all this, you know, then, wouldn’t exist. So however, No matter you see, no I say, no matter how much one believes, no matter how much one believes, you see, by doctrines, you know, by philosophy that I doesn’t exist.
No matter how much one intellectual one has one believes in one has intellectual belief due to philosophy doctrine. You know? But you see, everyday life, that person who that person person who says I doesn’t exist, there’s no I. In the experience, everyday life, day and night, in the experience, that’s all. You see, In in the experience talks, the experience speaks, you know?
I want this, I want that, you know? I want to go there. I want to sleep. I’m tired, and this and that, you see? The experience, you know?
You see, in the daily life, the experience speaks. When somebody criticizes, it hurts. When when one hears bad reputation, and criticism, it hurts the I. And then when somebody praises the I, the I feels happy. Experience experience shows, you see, or I know, I’m, you see, I’m sad, I’m happy, I’m this, you see, constantly.
So that, you see, that is happening. Is happening even to intellectually how much the person believe, you see, the I doesn’t exist. Nowhere, as long as the base exists, see, continuity of consciousness exists. As long as the base, continuity of consciousness exists, continuity of consciousness exists, the I, no way to you see, no way to make the I nonexistent. No way.
You see, intellectual belief, you know, I doesn’t exist, cannot make it something with I which exists on this continual base, nonexistent. Cannot make it nonexistent. Why? Because the base, as see, as long as the base exists, base exists, you see, as long as the base, especially the consciousness, exists continuously, the I that which is merely imputed on that, continuously it exists. The I on this exists continuously.
Why? Yeah, continuously. So continuation of consciousness has no end. As it did not have beginning, it does not have end. So therefore, I, you know, that is a continuation of I does not have beginning and does not have end.
I, the self, is imputed, which exists on the consciousness, you know, within the mental continuum. For the So now the conclusion is now. So you see, in the particular that we’ve the I is merely imputed on the aggregates, we don’t feel that it’s in a particular location that is imputed. But we the eye in a particular location above the belly, down below the neck. When we don’t analyze, down below the neck.
So that is self. So that’s feeling I in a particular location. So is it appearing from its own side. That itself is what is is repeating object is. That is what is called true existence in the I.
True existence in the I. So the reason why this empty doesn’t exist, that is because as soon as we start to search, see, as soon as we start to search, it becomes more unclear. And even though it appears as foundable at the beginning. But as soon as you start to analyze, more more unclear. So that shows it is empty.
This one is empty. This eye, this I appearing from its own side. This is existing from its own side, this is which feels there inside chest or somewhere there. As it could not be found in the atom on this base, I guess, nowhere. So therefore, is completely empty.
So when we meditate on shunyata by using the logic dependent arising or four analyses or when we do sadhanas, every time when you purify an emptiness, you should remember this. You should look at this refuted object on the I that merely imputed on this object. Look at that. Look at that. Then recognize that it’s empty.
Being aware, recognize that’s empty. How yeah. So depending on how much depending on individual with the mind, you know, how much familiar with the meditation on emptiness. So so yeah. Like this.
Then starting starting like this. So in yeah. So if one does meditation meditation session like this, then. However, reality is that I and everything is merely imputed. So therefore, opposite to that which appears, anything opposite from that is a refuted object.
So anything that which appears unlabeled, another way of putting it, anything which appears unlabeled, all these hallucinations, the repeating object. Another way to understand what a refuted object is, what we should realize empty. So in this way, unlabeled I. So you at so you use the devastation of all the logics. Right on the unlabeled I, the eye which appears unlabeled.
And then this way, weapon that one that one, should, you know. The atomic bomb, you see that atomic bomb that which we the atomic bomb, okay, it is thrown right on the What is enemy? What is enemy? You see? Right on that.
In this way, the one is able to realize emptiness and then able to liberate, able to cut off ignorance. From the four analysis, so the very first one recognizes the object of negation. So that’s the most important. From these four, that’s the most important thing. So everything depends on that, whether one meditation, one meditation on emptiness, what one does, what it harms the ignorance or not.
Ignorance, the root of saṃsāra or not. So it’s like if one doesn’t recognize the enemy, then how much the money that one spends? Weapon that one used, it used in the wrong direction. So it doesn’t stop the problem. So similar like this.