Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 70-minute Q&A session, Lama Zopa Rinpoche directly addresses practical challenges in guru devotion practice as students prepare for a Mahāmudrā retreat. He guides practitioners through the graduated path of developing pure view toward teachers, handling situations where a root guru has passed away, and maintaining faith when encountering a teacher’s troubling conduct—emphasizing that serious relationships require checking carefully before committing. He clarifies which tantric practices require formal initiation and which are permissible, discusses integrating teachings from multiple lamas, and explores the relationship between guru and deity in visualization. The session offers Western students specific guidance on balancing individualism with the surrender that guru devotion requires, while grounding practice in understanding the complete Lam Rim path to enlightenment.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 57 2004 04 22 MR.mp3
UUID: d95fc85e-4e45-4a35-924b-79a4648bcef0
Teacher: Lama Zopa Rinpoche 1
Collection: y Mahāmudrā International Retreat (Lama Zopa Rinpoche 1)
Date: 2004-04-22
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 70.6 minutes
Words: ~7,344
Seeing seeing any any any ordinary quality of having things that you think, oh, the guru shouldn’t shouldn’t say this or do that or be like that. Any any anything, Any possible thing. But of course, the main thing would be because I think guru devotion is developing guru devotion is a graduated path. Right? I don’t know if we can have absolute.
I’m just heretical here, that we can have perfect guru devotion straight away. But at least we shouldn’t, we should try and the the main faults, should try to overcome are thinking that the guru has actual negative qualities in relation to delusions. There are there are other things that we may see that annoy us but are not actually I I I can’t give an example. Otherwise, I’d be in trouble, I think. But even people I someone was mentioning a few days ago, some some new student somewhere asked if if his holiness is is a Buddha, why does he wear glasses?
So people are gonna lose faith and he shouldn’t wear glasses if he’s a Buddha. So this is maybe seeing seeing a mistake that if if if he really is a Buddha, then he should have a hearing aid or glasses and he should be shouldn’t have lumps on his face or anything. So these are minor things but the main things the transmission of the Guhyasamāja tantra. Particular keep with that guru, or do you do you find another do you have to you put another teacher in there? I’m a bit confused about that one when the guru dies.
What I was asking with what happens if you do guru devotion? What happens when you do guru devotion and you get the guru into your heart? What happens when the guru like in the case of Lama Yeshe dies? Do you take another guru in as you start do more teachings or I’m a bit confused about that one? I mean, I don’t think you I mean, you wouldn’t give up your guru because he passed away.
Right? And so, I mean, you can you would still like relate to Lama Yeshe as your guru. But if you’re talking about like a root guru, for example, I give you example of Rinpoche. Rinpoche’s root guru was Trijang Rinpoche, his whole name is and then, Rinpoche passed away. And Rinpoche always still refers to Trijang Rinpoche as Rinpoche’s root guru, but Rinpoche also after sometime after Trijang Rinpoche passed away, Rinpoche made a request to his holiness to be his root guru.
I mean, you can have more than one root guru. And I think because it’s important that you have somebody in this world also that you can relate to in that way. But I mean, I mean, Lama Yeshe still stays in your heart and you relate to Lama Yeshe. Right? How do you integrate the root guru with the other gurus?
If you get initiation from a root guru and then you get initiations from other gurus, I’m wondering how you integrate the different tantric practices with that root guru. Somebody else has a turn? You talking about having initiation into one particular deity from several different lamas? Not particularly. Would just just say say with Yamāntaka, you you get initiation from your root guru.
Mhmm. Then you get an initiation from Vajrayoginī from another guru. It’s not your root guru. Or you don’t consider to be your root guru. Now do you consider the the Vajrayoginī inseparable from your root guru somehow combined with your other guru or do you out of respect to the guru that you got the initiation from is said inseparable from the guru that you got the initiation from?
Now when you’re doing that practice, my understanding is that you would visualize Vajrayoginī and the the lama who gave you that initiation. So it’s You know, that that lama Alright. Manifest as Vajrayoginī. The only thing is that I thought was kinda like the root guru is the one that actually moved your heart. So I thought I thought somehow you had to integrate that within all your practices because that’s the sort of connection.
But if if you’re thinking of of them all as manifestation of absolute guru, then it’s not difficult. I think it’s just when we see them all as separate and we feel guilty because we’re feeling close to one and not so close to another. But I I don’t know. My mind in my mind, it’s hard enough to get seeing the gurus and the deity rather than two gurus and the deity. But if you think if you’re thinking of the the Dharmakāya that’s manifesting, then it’s it’s all the same anyway.
It’s all one, as Sarah’s been saying. Also related to that I suppose is like the Dalai Lama if it’s not your root guru when you visualize the know the refuge I’m sorry the merit field you’re supposed to have the gurus with your root Guru in the center and the other Gurus around and it seems very strange if your root Guru isn’t the Dalai Lama to have your root Guru and then sort of the Dalai Lama around the circle. It just seems strange particularly that when when we have pictures of the Dalai Lama, we always put the Dalai Lama above all the other pictures. Do you? Well, most most It’s most centers, it seems like that.
Dalai Lama’s pictures higher than than the other. Yeah. But that’s different to your personal practice. You put your root guru in the center and if the Dalai Lama’s not your root guru, he would be on the side. Right.
Yeah. And it’s it’s only because we’re seeing them still as, you know, these ordinary beings that it’s complicated, I think. Alright. I’m confused about one aspect and that’s the one many. For example, in the four point analysis, we established the pervasion that it’s either one or many, it can’t be both.
And here in Tantra, I’m a new initiate in highest Tantra, we say it is one guru is many deities and one deity is many gurus. So I’d just like to know that in the place we say in a four point analysis we establish the pervasion with other words it’s a dichotomy and then here we come and we say it’s actually both possible. I think I’ll answer part of your question first then I might get you to repeat the other parts of the question but I think when you with that division of something is either one or many, the one entity you focus one way it can be one and you focus another way you’re looking at many it depends it’s not the one entity can has different aspects so you look one way it’s all the dharmakaya it’s all the one guru and you look another way it’s all the different manifestations so it doesn’t have to be a contradiction but it is true that if something exists it will fall into category of either being one or many. It’ll either be a singularity or plural. So what were some of the other things?
When you visualize a merit field, do you actually see the human form of the guru in front of you, or do you see them as Lama Tsongkhapa and say in the form of Vajradhāra so you don’t visualize them in the human form? In the visualization of the merit field, there’s, as Venerable Sarah keeps saying, there is as the central figure who also symbolizes your root guru, but in the idealized form. And then in front of Lama Losang Tubwang Dorje Chang is your actual root guru appearing as a human being, but also without may be some, from a conventional point of view, ordinary defects, physical defects or something. So you don’t see those and you see yeah. And also the other gurus around in the same way.
It’s my turn to a simple one. It’s very simple. I don’t have a root guru, so what do I do in the visualizations? I think do you have a guru? Then I just put your guru there.
The guru. Some things that happen are a little bit problematic and it’s not that simple. There have been, I guess, examples in the Tibetan and other traditions where gurus have been involved in sexual abuse of students and doing other things like that. So at what point does the guru stop being regarded as a guru and being a sham? Don’t think once you’ve made the commitment, that’s it.
That’s why it’s so serious making the commitment. And that’s why it’s so important to check carefully before you make the commitment. So it’s a really good opportunity to emphasize how important that relationship is. So you have to be really extremely careful before you make the commitment. Because once it’s done, it’s done.
You can’t undo it. And so, I know these situations like you said have happened. Right? And Rinpoche gets a number of letters along these lines. Rinpochey is always consistent in when he comes back or when he replies is that, you know, Rinpochey emphasizes the importance that, you know, you still see that person as your guru.
You have to still see that person as your as your guru. And that’s your meditation practice. That’s your meditation practice to see. I mean, that’s what it is anyway, but I mean, particularly at this point, that’s that’s your practice to see that that person still is your guru. And if it’s very difficult, then the minimum thing you can do is sort of just have a neutral mind towards that person and just leave it.
But it becomes a very it becomes a difficult situation. But Rinpoche’s advice is always around keeping pure view of that teacher and seeing you know, if you’re if the view you’re having is causing you a problem, then you you’ve got to recognize it’s your view. Right? And deal with your view of the situation. Pardon?
It’s a very hard one. It’s hard one. Difficult one. But I think, you know, from what I’ve heard from Rinpoche, especially also from His Holiness, just emphasizes how important it is how important it is to check carefully. Mean, too many westerners or non Tibetans just go into relationships like this all the time.
You know, just so easily. So easily. And then afterwards, it’s very difficult if something happens. And it happens seems to happen a lot. I mean, not necessarily just with sexual abuse, it could be other kinds of actions people have difficulty with.
And I think that’s why know that His Holiness is also recommended. You know, it is easier. It’s not always the case, but it is easier if your Guru is a monk or a nun, an person. Because there’s much less chance of other things happening. I also understood from Rinpoche, maybe if you can correct me, I think I’ve understood from Rinpoche that Rinpoche has said that, like as Roger said, you have to hold that guru in your heart.
Maybe it’s different with the root guru, but if you have a guru who you’ve accepted, someone who you’ve accepted as a guru and then you hear something seems like a valid story that upsets your mind and you don’t want to follow them anymore, you still have to see that person as a guru, but you can in a sense, how can you say, mentally dissociate. You don’t necessarily actually follow them anymore, take teachings and keep some distance from them, but you still have to maintain that thought that they are a Buddha. My question with regard to the merit field when we talk about you’d say we should put the teachers who we made Dharma connection. What exactly do you mean by Dharma connection? Is that taking initiation or is it already by taking any teaching?
It’s definitely the gurus you’ve taken initiation from and those you’ve taken any precepts or vows from. And then with the teachings I think correct me if I’m wrong here, but I think it’s if you’ve taken that as a guru giving you know, when you’ve received that teaching, that in your mind you’ve established that relationship? Because it may be in some cases that you you take teachings from someone but you’re it’s more like you’re studying the subject and and you haven’t established that relationship. So that one’s up to you. But with the other two, the initiations and the vows, then it’s it’s established because of that action.
I mean, when you say people who attests take some teachings but not with a feeling of establishing a guru relationship. So you would also add them in the merit field or you Not necessarily. It’s specifically for I mean you could but who’s in the merit field is manifestation it’s it’s it’s the Buddha. So normally, you know, you would you would see the teachers that that that you are doing Guru devotion practice with. There’s there’s one other thing Rinpoche says and that is that when he was younger in Solu Khumbu, because he was a tulku, he was given all kinds of he went to different lamas and he was given all kinds of different transmissions and lungs and everything.
And then later in life he was wondering whether all of these were his Guru because he didn’t in his mind, he was just this just happened to him. And so then he went to Kunu Lama Rinpoche, Tenzin Gyaltso, great bodhisattva, and he asked him, he said, do I have to see all of these as Guru? And Kunu Lama gave the advice. He said, if it benefited your mind. So Rinpoche did say that one of the commentaries Rinpoche says, if that person benefited your mind, even it’s a kangaroo, you have to put it in the Merritt field.
Which that’s the direct quote. He said, if a person benefited your mind through the teachings like your mind changed, even it’s a kangaroo, you put them in a merit field. So the Rinpoche said, he checked and several of those he didn’t he didn’t feel as any benefit. He was just sitting there. And so but then those that did benefit, then he he talked so that might be helpful.
Maybe you draw the line of what it means benefiting your mind. I mean, the millipedes out there, they really benefit my mind. If the teachings that they gave transformed your mind into Dharma, I think you have to think about it. Did that teacher change your mind into Dharma? Did it help?
You have to I mean, that’s something you have to think about. Of course, everything can benefit your mind, but now we’re talking directly about you received these teachings. Was there some transformation in your heart? Any other opinions? You were just joking about the kangaroo so it was it was that you received teaching or transmission from?
So does that help with the millipedes? Yeah. The kangaroos was a joke because I thought that too. It’s gonna get very crowded. He actually gave a teaching on this in Auckland.
And what he said was because it was a big issue in Auckland. So he gave this teaching and he said, so if you in your mind decide that this person is gonna be your guru. So you make the decision in your mind and then the first time the person gives you either a teaching on the Dharma or a mantra, at that moment, the connection’s made forever. So I thought that was quite clear. I don’t think it’s always so clear actually.
Because I’ve heard many points of view on it actually. And even from Rinpoche, I’ve heard Rinpocheh say different things. But generally, as I understand it, from your side, have to also make the commitment. And I’ve heard that from His Holiness that actually, you know, from your side, you have to actually be part of this this sort of decision. But I mean, I’ve I’ve also heard other ways, but that one is the one that sort of sticks for me actually.
And just the one about put your name. Yeah. I just want to add that one another comment on that one regarding, you know, if you see your teacher you know, your view of your teacher is, you know, sometimes problematic. And I think what for Westerners, what we tend not to think about is karma in these situations. Right?
We we don’t we don’t really contemplate karma in the situation, and we don’t really contemplate how we see things. Right? So it’s worthwhile thinking that way when these situations happen because you don’t know you really don’t know, you know, who that person may be because obviously there are stories with lineage lamas and obviously beings that are really holy beings. Right? But you’ll hear a lot of ordinary views about their actions that would sort of make you tremble.
But there’s no no doubt. I mean, Marpa with Milarepa. I mean, I often think if I was around at that time, you know, one of Milarepa’s buddies or something like that, I mean, God, I would have such a hard time with how this other guy is treating him. I mean, a really difficult time. Can you imagine going on for days, months, weeks, years?
And your friend here, all he wants is a teaching and he just gets he just gets everything. I mean, it’s bound to be doubts and problems arise in your mind, for me anyway. Right? But, I mean, you know, it’s good for us because it’s a thousand years later and we know Marpa was a Buddha, you know. So but the situation I mean, these situations must also happen now, I think.
I mean, I know of situations of, you know, great lamas. They may be late, but things happen and it must be for the benefit of the individual. Right? There’s no doubt. Must be for the benefit of the individual.
But that doesn’t mean that every situation that happens in that category is right. But, you know, in terms of just breaking your concepts, your idea, and helping you understand how to think about it, I think that’s important. Especially if you’re in a Guru Disciple relationship, you have no choice, you have to. See the two. It’s incredibly problematic but what would you suggest to one of his students for example?
Yeah. I mean, for me, I’m not a student of that Geshe, right? And so I’m just I just leave it. You know, it’s it’s too complicated to relate to that whole thing of the protector and everything else is. For me, it’s relatively easy.
It’s just it’s beyond me. Just leave it sort of like a neutral mind. As we like what often Rinpoche gives the advice is that, you know, if you think of one person that can be of most benefit to the world these days, it’s his holiness. Right? You know?
So kind of Rinpoche uses that reasoning. So therefore, I follow his holiness. Yeah. And Rinpoche is not saying bad about anybody else. He’s just saying that for him, what he said to others anyway in situations because Rinpoche, like many great lamas, they they had that practice.
Even His Holiness had a connection. Right? Didn’t actually take the initiation, but he he recited the prayer. Yeah. But they’ve all given it up.
Right? And I think one of the main reasons that for Rinpoche was that, you know, if it’s a choice, then, you know, he’s following his holiness because because of that reason. And then just leave it. What should you do in a case where you feel that say you received a teaching that you think is contradictory to another Guru and it can particularly arise in the study of the philosophical texts where it’s quite fine distinctions and one guru may say one thing and another something different or the textbook may say something different. Is that thought that maybe there’s been an error?
How does one handle that? Well I think if you study philosophy you’re going to find a lot of debate about different points you know in between the schools and even within the schools there’s debate about different points and so I think I don’t know, maybe it’s a little bit easier for you a monastery situation. You’re studying from normally in a monastery they have a particular text that they follow and a particular line that they take on it. So maybe it’s a little bit harder in the West when you do take teachings from different Geshe’s or Lamas and things like that. But I think what Geshe Tashi Tsering at Chenrezig advises that sometimes there does come points where he says that he has heard this and he has heard that.
And at this time he doesn’t know which way to go on that. And so he maybe goes with one that he feels answers best for that time but doesn’t come down very strongly on it. Just holds it a little bit open because the reasons that come aren’t really seeming to indicate one way or the other. So we don’t have to see it as a contradiction. We shouldn’t see it as a contradiction.
But just for us at the moment there’s not clarity on that point. So normally when as you progress then you should be able to as a beginner even though there are valid reasons you might not understand those valid reasons. And so therefore for you it’s not a valid inference even though you get told that it is a valid argument. Until you can understand that reason the whole parts of the reasoning that go up to making that a valid reason then you can’t, it’s not a valid reason for you. So it could be that like the when we study tenets there are different views that lead you on to a more and more subtle view.
So therefore it’s useful to actually go through the reasonings of each level and develop your understanding. So if you’re hearing one thing from one lama and one thing from another lama or even different things from the same lama if they’re talking from a different point of view, different school point of view but you maybe haven’t worked out that at that time he was talking from one school and that time from another school. So in a way you just still need to see it as with the whole Lam Rim as being progressive teachings for more and more subtlety. So but also just to ask questions too. Keep sort of questioning and bring up if you’ve heard some other point before then you can bring up the reasons as to why that point was mentioned and ask for that Geshe’s or that teacher’s point of view on that other opinion.
Normally they like a bit of debate but you probably always lose. My question is my Rinpoche who we all know is an extremely busy man, we can’t always get access to him. And I have other gurus, one being my local teacher, Khen-sur Rinpoche. And so often when I need advice, I go to the one that I have easier access to. But I know that some senior, how do you say, students have a problem with this, that they feel I should get all my advice from my root guru.
But I see both as Buddha, so therefore the same mind stream. So I have no problem with that. And they certainly don’t give any advice that conflicts. So what can I do for other people’s minds that have a problem with this? So was the last part?
What was the What can I do for other people’s minds who have a problem with this? I think that’s their problem, isn’t it? I I I think you you do have to think about who you’re asking what of, particularly in a center situation because you don’t want to set up the situation where you are, say, asking something of the Geshe in the center a question which really is Rinpoche’s responsibility as the spiritual director of the organization. Because having asked then you need to follow and you don’t want to ask both and get different answers. Context.
I don’t have a karma with centers. Okay. So then I agree with Neil. I always get the microphone before the question. It’s very So my question was, I think said two days ago, when I come in the Gompa, I should every single Thanga and start to see as emanation of my root guru, of my guru.
So I was wondering as I understand root guru or guru as a dharmakaya, I understand that it’s actually present in every little thing where I am. There is no single place outlined. It’s in a tree, in a leaf, in a bubble, in my food, in the water. So actually everything is my root guru. Is this right?
Sarah? Actually, think Rinpoche said gave the answer to this a couple of days ago. He said that absolute guru pervades. He said it pervades pervades, but particularly pervades holy objects. So I think if you if you can develop that ultimate view that the guru manifests in everything, then it’s great.
But I think at our level, we start with the holy objects. But but the end is right. Right? It’s not only in the holy objects. It’s actually in every single It it pervades but the the merit field is is your field for creating merit.
So that’s why of all the objects that are pervaded, the ones you’re visualizing in the merit field are those that are that have the function of leading you to enlightenment. Mhmm. Okay? Okay. Field.
Merit Field. I don’t think you can say that like the the dharmakaya is your in your what do you call it? Thermos flask. The the the the dharmakaya pervades everything but I don’t think it’s it’s not something that goes in everything. Dharmakāya is omnipresent, it’s my understanding, it’s omnipresent in the sense it has awareness of everything.
It’s not like something that is stuck inside each thing and therefore it’s holding and therefore it’s your guru. Of course your thermos could be a manifestation of the Dharmakāya That’s could be I really That’s another one. That’s a possibility. It’s I I don’t think that the dharmakai is in everything because dharmakai is consciousness, is omniscient consciousness. May I ask?
Yeah. There was one night I had a glass of water in front and I threw something in and I suddenly realized that if I put an object in the water it’s just moving this to the side. And I thought about this word pervading what it means. And I just thought there is no separation. It’s present.
It’s a presence, what is consciousness actually. Right? So it’s not an inside or outside anymore. It’s all pervading. It’s just like it goes through.
I mean, it goes through the atom. It’s energy. It’s not a material thing. So also I have this problem once, if this is a dharmakaya, then to separate something like the merit field, it’s a concept again, right? So it makes me kind of confused because I try to get rid of concepts, but in the other, maybe sure, I’m ignorant.
I have to work with concepts, with new concepts to open something up. Maybe my it really could be or I think I’m wrong with my understanding of dharmakaya. So this is what I’m thinking about and I’m happy you helped me to get a real understanding what it is or how I could visualize it or what is wrong in my thoughts. Yeah. Because ultimately you’re talking about emptiness.
Ultimately talking about emptiness. Well, I’ll just tell two stories because I don’t have philosophical understanding. I’ll just tell two stories. I have a friend who has an extremely good practice called devotion and she sees the guru in flowers. She looks at a flower and she says, oh, this is Rumshai.
Rinpoche’s Rinpoche’s offering. And I I used to have some doubts about this and I I checked with one lama. I said, you know, my friend, she sees the Guru in the flower. She thinks that’s Buddha. And he said, well, if you see the Buddha there, then Buddha will enter into that and abide there.
She saw a carpet, a rug. She saw it as a merit field. And she told Geshe Ngawang Drakpa, one very great master, she said, when I look at, you know, all the designs, she says, I look at that, somehow to me it appears like the merit field. He said, well then you mustn’t tread on it. Because according to her view, she sees that way.
So if you see that way, but I think what what Jessica just said was a perfect explanation. You know, there is a field of merit for us as ordinary beings. Thank you. I’m now more confused than ever about root gurus. Roger, you mentioned that Rinpoche asked His Holiness to be his root guru after Trijang Rinpoche died.
Is it normal to ask a person to be your root guru given that the decisions made from your side that that person will be your root guru? Or is it not usual to ask that person? I don’t know what’s usual. You can go either way. Think think you can make the commitment from your side and you can also make a formal request.
I think probably better to make the formal request because for us it’s more effective, right? So that’s something that we should ask the person whom we would be our root guru ourselves. I would think that feels better, right? I did. Maybe you should put your thermos on the altar just to be safe.
This is a practical question not knowing the highest tantra. Sometimes we recite mantras of the different deities and then I feel I’m not sure I think I don’t have any initiation in this particular deity. So I’d like to know understand which sadhanas, which deities can we bring into our practice on the moment when this is the first highest yoga tantra initiation that we have? For example, Yamāntaka, I don’t, we sometimes we might recite a mantra of them that we actually do that. But I feel that Yamāntaka, it’s I I was wondering, to the other side is the Sanskrit was Yamāntaka, and it’s a wrathful deity that we have.
But then I think, well, now we should get an initiation in that wrathful deity before I’m allowed to actually before I have the permission to actually go into Sadhana. That’s what I’m asking. You know, can can I immediately start now or should I get an initiation in each of these new deities? So to do the practice for example of Yamāntaka you would first require the initiation. In the pooja as we’re doing in the morning where there’s the recitation of those mantras, you can recite them because you have already taken a highest yoga tantra, but you don’t have to.
Okay. But to act to actually do the practice to it in greater extent than that you would need the initiation. Is that the question answer? Yes. Thank you very much.
I want to be sure. The other thing is do we talk about the Yidam and in the six-session Guru Yoga we talk about the Yidam as Vajradhāra for example. Is where it stays? I don’t understand this whole thing about Yidams. vajradhara is okay because during initiation we vajradhara is like the main incorporates all the deities and just like Śākyamūni Buddha incorporates all Buddha’s so vajradhara is okay to visualize and practice with and also Vajrasattva also is like Vajradhāra in that it encompasses all the deities.
Those two are okay. Thank you. I just quickly had a question too. And it’s quite related to what this gentleman was just asking. Now that we’ve had this high yoga tantra initiation, what other practices, what can we actually do in terms of guru deity, yoga practice?
That are not highest yoga tantra deities. vajrapani for example and Vajrayoginī because we are reciting the mantras but we can’t do the whole practice until we’ve had initiation. Okay, thanks. You can do Vajrasattva purification practice but you can’t do something like Vajrayoginī or Heruka or Kālacakra without the initiation. The lower tantras you can do. That was my question, the lower tantras you can do.
I think so, yeah. I think it’s okay to do the lower tantras, but also if you have the lung for the lower tantras, of course, then becomes more effective. But once you’ve got a highest yoga tantra initiation, that gives you permission to do the lower tantras. Can you quickly outline the lower tantras? Sorry?
Can you quickly outline the lower tantras? I think we have a bit of disagreement here from the higher authority. Wasn’t disagreeing with Neil, but, you know, the safe thing is that if you have the initiation, you can do the practice, right? And and and really, the other key factor is that if it’s a highest yoga tantra or even lowest yoga tantra, before you can visualize yourself as the deity, you have to have a major initiation. Whether it’s Kriyā tantra or highest yoga tantra, you have to have a major initiation means that you have to have the basis of the vase initiation.
Right? So before you can visualize yourself as a deity. Right? So and in general, you you have to have an initiation to do the practice means visualization, etcetera like that. Yeah.
But often just merely reciting a mantra without practice or visualization like that, generally it’s kind of okay if you’re Buddhist and you have devotion. So, because in inside one of the prayers, I can’t recall where exactly but there is a there’s mention about dissolving Yamāntaka into the heart. And so, this obviously cannot be done by us at this stage. Dissolving into your heart is okay but becoming the deity, visualizing yourself as a deity, you need So you cannot generate as the Yamāntaka. However, we can dissolve Yamataka into the heart.
Yeah. But when you generate as vajradhara, essentially you also generate as Yamataka as well. You mean yourself become vajradhara? Yeah. I think I think you’re not supposed to become Vajradhāra or Vajrasattva.
You don’t visualize yourself as a deity unless you have. But but you can, you know, see like Vajrasattva or vajradhara up here and do the practice with it external to you. Okay. Thanks for that. Right.
You’re doing six-session Guru Yoga, you’re usually in the Gelug tradition, you’re doing it because you’ve got the commitment to keep it to do it. Right? Which means you’ve got highest yoga tantra initiation. So you can arise as Vajrasattva? Yeah because see what you Sorry.
I thought you said before you couldn’t. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe I made a mistake. But you’re right.
You’re right. Yeah. Yeah. What? You can or you can’t?
You can. Yeah. You just In that particular practice. He clarified you. Yeah.
Because that was part of the question anyway. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. I just have a question about Guru devotion for Westerners.
I was thinking that, you know, because we sort of generally have a fairly individualistic and probably arrogant approach. Is there anything specifically that can help Westerners with targeting that so that we can enter into the practice a bit more wholeheartedly? Mean, we’ve got a whole lot of techniques given to us but maybe specific for Westerners or with the self-cherishing techniques work for that? Sorry what attitude exactly did you say? I was just saying that you know that Westerners have sort of a fairly individual individualistic maybe arrogant attitude.
You know that they’re sort of guiding their own progress through life and that they might sort of benefit from others but you know not so much to really be devoted and really sort of surrender their Be the sweeper. Yeah. Be the sweeper and really surrender their will. I just wondered if there was any, you know, special techniques that really help Westerners with that with letting go of this sort of individualism and arrogance and sort of I I think the the section on the kindness of the guru. So the first section is about building up your ability to to see the Buddha, to see the guru as the Buddha.
And the second part is about remembering the kindness. And I think in the two combined should end up with a feeling of I remember she said actually a couple of nights ago, it’s not worship, but it’s it’s like respect and and the kind of love that you have for someone that that’s just looking after you and getting you out of this mess, you know. But but it was interesting. I I found it interesting when he said that word worship because I think we we do sometimes fall into that role of you know, the guru, the Buddha right out here and and I’m this really terrible person and in a way you you then put all the responsibility on the guru. But actually it’s your responsibility and and that is the compassion of the enlightened mind manifesting in order to help you on your path.
Thank you. Something that I think is really important is that for Westerners that you actually have some idea of the path to enlightenment really strongly. That you actually do understand that you can become fully enlightened and really go through the process of wanting to attain a good rebirth and wanting to attain self liberation and wanting to attain full enlightenment. And then you actually can then realise the importance of guru devotion and really then bring your practice very strongly. Whereas if you try to go into guru devotion strongly and you don’t really have an idea of the three scope levels it’s almost like you have no reason really for the guru devotion.
So I think it’s really important to get an understanding of the outline of the Lam Rim and then you have some real reason for your guru devotion because you want the result. There’s quite a few new people still turning up day to day. And I’m not sure that they might be a little bit confused about what they should and shouldn’t be doing. There hasn’t been any explanation on that in the last couple of days. So I’m just speaking on their behalf.
Perhaps there are some people here that are not sure whether they should be doing these practices or what parts they should be leaving out if they are doing them. There’s nothing in the Guru Puja Choga that we’re doing that people shouldn’t do. I think that’s actually Rinpoche’s main practice that he’s that he encourages us all to do and kind of base our life our life our life practice on that. So it hasn’t ended up that we’ve been doing you know the two groups with six session yoga or something happening up here. It’s okay for everyone.
But if there are new people then who do they see Sarah? If there are new people who’ve got questions they see Neil. The the one thing is that Venerable Sarah does point out is the take when there’s the section of taking the bodhisattva vows. If you don’t have those you don’t go through that. Also, if you don’t have the tantric vows you don’t go through that section.
Otherwise reciting the mantras is okay if you don’t have any initiation. The highest yoga tantra mantras is okay to recite? I I think it seems that Rinpoche seems happy that people, even if they don’t have initiations, can see and recite the the these the mantras. That’s how it’s being offered to us. I think at the very beginning Rinpoche made clear that new people were welcome to come in the mornings but Rinpoche was concerned that it might be too much for them.
So he tried to provide an alternative and that seems to have kind of fizzled out. But I did didn’t seem to be from Rinpoche that it was a problem for new people to come. He was just very concerned that they were taken care of. And so he thought to introduce a simple practice like Śākyamūni Buddha Puja and then kind of work at it from that. There I want to say something about the previous question and there’s three parts is using reasonings and analysis.
So reasonings and analysis and the scriptural quotations. And the third one is your own experience. So I think the one which really cuts through the ego is your own experience. You have the reasonings, you have the quotations and the stories and all this stuff. But Rinpoche always says, and your own experience if you have if you have some.
So I think it’s when you have experience experiences of just seeing how the Guru does something which just it does that cuts that cuts that cuts something. It just helps you to let go and trust. Maybe at this point, if there are people because I’ve heard some stories that there are people finding the practice a little bit intense and difficult. So if there are some people who would like to start the Śākyamūni Buddha practice again, we could do that. Do you want a show of hands?
Or maybe are there there some people who would like to do the practice in the lower Gompa instead? Whether you have to stop and be there and then. I can’t hear it. Sorry. There’s just been a suggestion that some of the people who might be finding it a little bit difficult aren’t actually here at the session.
There’s some spaces around. Well, maybe if you know people who are having a difficult time with the sessions, you could direct them to me and we can get the other session going again. If people here know someone who’s having some trouble, we’ll get the sessions going again. So we dedicate the merit of this time. Ten minute break.
Gong will ring in ten minutes. In this break, just so that you know, there is an opportunity to get a copy of the Guhyasamāja retreat Sadhana, and there’s three different commentaries. And there’s also the root text of the Mahāmudrā. So if you would like those, they’re all going to be made available in return for donation only to cover the costs. But we do need to know how many people want them, and then they’re going to be available at the bookshop.
Sign up. Whatever you’d like. We’ll put this on the back table. Have a look on whatever you like, then sign your name. Okay?
As soon as possible. If you can sign up as soon as possible, we’ll try to make it available by the end of the retreat. Can we have silence in the, please? Says she who’s been talking. Can you can you please just keep it silent in here?
Purpose of my life is not just to attain happiness myself alone, but to free each and every single sentient being from the oceans of samsaric suffering. In order to do this, I need to first generate all the realizations of the path in my mind. And in order to do this,