Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. Monks walking through knee-deep snow with torn shoes and bleeding feet, then glimpsing green fields, trees, and a hovering airplane from a high mountain peak — these are among the images Khensur Rinpoche offers in this 92-minute oral history interview recorded at Buddha House in 1988, with Dawa translating. The conversation opens by untangling the Tibetan and Western calendar dates of the 1959 Norbulingka uprising, establishing exactly when people gathered to stop the Dalai Lama being taken away. Rinpoche then recounts his own escape from Sera Monastery: night travel to evade Chinese troops near Tsona, a mysterious guide who vanished at midnight, the prayer-flag marker at the India-Tibet border, warmth from Monpa villagers, and arrival at an Indian Army checkpoint near Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh. An intimate, unscripted eyewitness account of a historical moment.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 32 RS 1988 11 03.mp3
UUID: 88665769-2234-4a14-8b6c-4b16271b5119
Teacher: Khensur Rinpoche
Collection: Rinpoche's Story (Khensur Rinpoche)
Date: 1988-11-03
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 92.2 minutes
Words: ~5,410
Seven eight nine ten it’s Friday the third of November nineteen eighty nine and I’m going to Buddha House to talk with Khensur Rinpoche with Dawa translating. Yeah. We just did did this drawing, but I think we finished that one. Yeah. So they were just escaping.
So with the day dates, there was a bit mixed up. That’s because Rinpochees, at that time, they had what I call system of counting or dating only through Tibetan calendar. So it was Tibetan February, second of Tibetan month, and dates were ninth when Rinpoche and Geshe Ngawang Dargye, they went down to city, had a look, and then returned back. And it was on Tibetan tenth that the bombings they started hearing the bombs bombings in Sarah. Yeah.
So So it’s What was the second month? Tibetan ninth and Tibetan tenth. That the same as Western or not? No. No.
No. February February, Tibetan. So February is Tibetan. Oh. So meaning ninth and tenth of Tibetan second month.
No. So corresponding to Western calendar, tenth of Tibetan II was nineteenth of March at that time. Western nineteenth of March. Nineteenth? Yep, Nineteenth.
Oh, you got yeah. She doesn’t break Tenth. Nineteen. Yep. Tenth.
Tenth February in Tibetan correspond to nineteenth March in Western Nineteen. Yeah. Yeah. Nineteen. Yeah.
Does why do the Westerners always celebrate tenth of March then for that uprising day? No. Always Yeah. That was the start. No.
And that’s because before his holiness left, there was whole upheaval people’s protest. And that protest started on first of Tibetan second month, which correspond to tenth March in Western calendar. Oh, I see. Yeah. So first day of that.
Yeah. So it was calendar tenth of March, and Tibetan first day of the second month. That was the day Chinese wanted His Holiness to come to the play show. Oh. And then the whole class of people, they went to Norbulingka and start preventing stopping his holiness from attending that show.
And they start shouting and, yeah, trying to stop his holiness being taken away. Oh, I see. So it took a whole almost nine days before they actually started firing that time. So the people gathered in the morning, five o’clock on that day. The people, which?
Oh, people. Yeah. Lots of people. Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. They they did around Norbulingka, and they start trying His Holiness not attained. Because before that, Chinese, they already told His Holiness should come, but without bodyguards and no weapons. So it was five o’clock morning of Tibetan, first of the second month, and worst in tenth March. So at that time, people started gathering about five o’clock, and his holiness was to go about nine.
And then people started trying to stop. Trying to stop. Is this evening? No. In the morning.
Oh. That same morning. Oh. So people start work on. They will start trying to stop.
Then people among them, they would be watching if there were any Chinese spies. They found there was one called Kunga Samdup. No. And they will start throwing stone on him and he was killed on the spot.
And then there was one, a famous lama called Phala. And one of his relatives also happened to be a Chinese spy, and he was wearing a sort of mask around his mouth and having a Chinese pistol on his waist. His Phala was? No. The relative.
Yeah. Relative. So he was trying to, what I call, escape away, but people called him and beat him and was killed. Quite a seven. Right?
Yeah. He was also killed. No. So he was like a a Chinese stooge. Yeah.
That’s right. Yeah. And and only the Chinese wear those masks, don’t they? They always wear them. Yeah.
No. Yeah. And then his body was tied to robes, and people dragged him down to down to Barkhor, all the way down to Barkhor. And then people around Barkhor, people start shouting, Tibet is for Tibetans. Chinese go back to China, and Tibet is an independent country.
So the actual work of protest maybe perhaps started from that point. So because people start shouting and protesting, that’s why we have normally tenth March celebration. So it was on Tibetan eighth and Western seventeenth, is it? Seventeenth Mhmm. On which his holiness left in the evening.
But before his holiness left on that day, Chinese has fired two tank bombs. Really? Yeah. And Before he left? Yeah.
Before before he left. And somehow it didn’t damage the building. Yeah. But after that, Chinese they sent letter to His Holiness. They have sent letter to His Holiness saying, show us in a what call map or place where you would be.
Because now it looks like these Tibetan people, they can’t be they can’t be controlled without using violence. So we have to make yeah. Just know where you are. Something really. You know?
Oh. So maybe just sort of only this much. Yeah. Have Rinpoche been down to the city before that ninth of Tibetan February then. You know when he went down with the Geshe Ngawang Dargye?
Was that the first time he’d been down from Sarah since the first of February? I I’m getting the dates confused. That was a lot almost a week or something after the trouble started. So the first time he’d been into Lhasa? Oh, on ninth.
Yeah. The ninth. Then they called the the women. Yeah. Already they heard when they were in monastery, and all a lot of things are happening down in Lhasa, and the situation has become quite desperate.
And that’s why Rinpoche and the the other two went down to see how things are going. To see for themselves. Yeah. That’s good. So that’s that’s cleared.
So when Rinpoche, we’ll call, left, that’s about ninth Tibet in February, and Norbulingka was destroyed that night about two o’clock in the morning, which which is dawn too. Yeah. So Western calendar is about eighteen. And when Rinpoche was escaping? Yeah.
Escaping and Norbulingka being destroyed. No. No. At that time, he wasn’t escaping. No.
He hasn’t started escaping, but that was when Rinpoche heard the bombing the bombing of Norbulingka. I think it’s Was that the same night that the BAM hit? No. It wasn’t. It was the night before the BAM hit their place.
The the Rinpoche, the So it was on tenth hour call on Tibetan tenth when the monks went down to get guns from Potala and return back. It was on tenth, Tibetan tenth, in the evening about three o’clock, the Chinese start. That bomb hit Rinpoche’s place because Chinese knew that Sera Monks have gone down to get guns. So what day was it that Norbulingka was bombed? That was ninth?
Ninth. No. The day before? So Rinpoche was just staying all that day of tenth. He was staying in Sera.
He didn’t go. He was just doing his usual. Up till seven o’clock in the evening of ten. Just seven o’clock? Yeah.
And then Rinpoche started escaping. Seven o’clock in the evening of ten. Yeah. Tibetan tenth, about seven o’clock in the evening, and Western calendar about nineteenth I’m sorry, but the BAM hit their place that that same evening. Must have been earlier in the evening than I thought.
Evening in the yeah. Three o’clock. Afternoon. Afternoon. Yeah.
Evening in the sense. Afternoon. I see. I was thinking late at night. I was thinking Yeah.
One AM in the. So it hit about three o’clock in the afternoon. Then the because of the darkness. To me, I was thinking it was very late. Because being winter, it would be dark early anyway, wouldn’t it?
So it’d be very dark by. And when Rinpoche left. Yeah. Yeah. And the didn’t understand that.
I had a different idea. Yeah. About seven already in the in dark. So mister Rucher wants to add more on that Mhmm. Could we go on with his escape journey where we got up to and he met Kumei, Rucher, Khensur, and just leaving.
So maybe if there are things to say, maybe there could be, but maybe and that’s about it. And about the journey, the continuing journey onward from that point, Rinpoche says, maybe I think there’s nothing very interesting to hear. It’s just saying we came here and then we started. We came here and we started. So it just continued on?
No. So how much longer do I go to India? In India? In this idea of time. No.
No. About five, six days. Five, six days? No. Oh, yeah.
No. And then they got they arrived at this monastery. Uh-huh. Was it in India? I’m just Yeah.
I’ve got so many different translations. What else was there after that? Well, I haven’t got anything except that he arrived in a monastery. I’ve just forgotten the name of it. I don’t know if I can find it.
No. Actually, it says on the first of April, arrived — I can’t say it. Arunachal Pradesh. Yeah.
That’s actually. Is it? Yeah. Tawang Tawang Monastery. Tawang?
Tawang, t a w a n g. Tawang. Tawang Gompa. You can say Gompa. Tawang Gompa Monastery.
Gompa? Yeah. No. That’s that’s. It is in Arunachal Pradesh.
Yeah. Arunachal Pradesh is like a South Australian state coin. That’s a whole state. Oh, I see. So what was the town that it was near, did you say?
Town. That Oh, town was a town. It’s a town. That’s why the Gompa is called town monastery. Oh, okay.
Okay. Another. So maybe Perhaps Rinpoche can say some. Before arriving, they are able to say something about it before And then at a at a place before arriving, Rinpoche came, the party came to this side of the pass. There was a small pass.
If you they crossed that pass, then they would be in a place called Tsona. Tsona? Yeah. Tsona, t s o n a. T s o n Yeah, Tsona.
That night, Rinpoche and the party, they slept, camped there, and they slept. Somehow, just middle of night, they hear a lot of people shouting. When they wake up, they saw all these people coming from other side of the path, from Tsona, coming across the path and towards waking them up saying, oh, how come you are you are all sleeping? Because Chinese are already there there there are already so many Chinese in Tsona. They have come already Chinese have come to Tsona.
So there’s no there’s it’s not possible to cross or go through Tsona because Chinese have already arrived. Oh, thank you. Somehow, Rinpoche and the party didn’t listen to these people, and they went up the high pass. And on the peak of the pass, they looked down and saw in Tsona the Chinese and Tibetan guerrilla army, Chushi Gangdruk, they were firing at each other. Like, Rinpoche said, You’re all just firing to each other.
There’s a lot of fights going on. So they saw that. There’s the news. What was it? It was still nighttime, saying saying about two o’clock dawn.
They went up the pass and then just to see whether it was true or not. So they went up the pass. So they couldn’t see, but they can hear and things going on. So the party retreated back, and after coming to some point, Rinpoche did observation whether which way is best, which course is to take. It came out, Oh, it’s good if they crossed a small river which was passing somewhere near the place.
If they crossed that, then it would be good. So they crossed that river and then along the valley from there. So, when they crossed the river, just along the river, there was a food part, so the party went along that. Somehow, this river joins another river from where the Chinese were staying. Mhmm.
So if the party refugees party didn’t go quick, then it’s possible Chinese may come from that side of the river, the other river, and then stopped them at some meeting point down there. So the party, Rinpoche and his party, they left the two donkeys at that place. And because they had so many what called barley Without their supplies? No. No.
No. Because some tsampa was with the donkeys. Oh, my goodness. No. And some was with them, but the problem was they had grains and barley.
They had both? Yeah. So it that it turned out, didn’t it? Yeah. No.
So it was, yeah, traveling in nighttime. But because they have to go quick, so they start and they continued even though it was nighttime. So The whole night they started going. So as they went quite quick, Chinese couldn’t catch with them? And then they came down to an intersection of two roads, and they weren’t very sure which way to go.
And somehow they met a person and they asked, we’re going we are going to India. Which way would be the best? And the person said, Oh, you should take the other road. The party went the other road, which the person recommended and asked to go. But somehow, after some time this soon, in that what do call it?
In that direction, there was what do call there were huge snow mountains. Oh. And it seemed like not to talk about winter. Even in summer, it may be quite impossible to cross those. But still, I want to call it taking that part.
After some time, the party camped for And then Rinpoche and the party asked that man, you should sleep with us tonight here. And because we’re I that’s I I why I somehow after midnight, he was he he’s gone. He’s gone. No. And then they all became very worried.
Maybe this person be extrusion. He might bring Chinese or something could happen. So they couldn’t sleep. You make his room, she did observation, which we would be best, what should be done. Then it came out it’s good if they go the other way.
So they start going the other way. I had to go back. Yeah. What about a day’s walk? Had to go back.
Yeah. Day’s So how was this person? Was he bad and Indian? Of course, in Tibetan. No.
Because they haven’t reached a lot in India. No. They stayed in Tibet. And then they came to a what I call medium sized a pass. Like so the party would be coming from there, and then they have to, what call, take a round of the pass half, semicircle coming from that.
And then, again, they have to come to this direction. So in meaning saying, they could have come that way, just crossing. But at this point, they were going like that, and there was this path, and they have to just take a half circle of that path, like from there, and then coming this way. So when when they finished coming this way, they understood or they came to know that, oh, Sono was just next across the mountain. So and the Chinese could be coming if they don’t.
So Sonam was just across the street. So they had escaped very quick I worked quickly day and night. Yeah. Almost continuous journey. Yeah.
Day and night. So, again, they start continuing as quick as possible, nighttime. And then after a while, they came they came by what I call a huge house with so many things inside, but there wasn’t anybody. And the party stayed there. The which?
The party. The party stayed there. And there were some dried meats, some butters. So some people some of the party, they just help themselves with the things they need. And and, again, they left or continued their work on journey.
But because they haven’t crossed the point where there was still Tsona route meeting. So they had to still continue going as quick as possible. And again they went again they continued even though it was dark and nighttime. So they wouldn’t be able to go too fast if it was thirty people walking and then just the two mules. Yeah.
That’s right. But still has to they they had to go as much as they can. Just keep pressing on all the time. Yeah. They were frightened.
And, of course, the Chinese could have come anytime. And then they went and went, and especially the point when the tunnel route would you know, would meet. At that point, they left very silently. Somehow Chinese haven’t arrived there. From that point, they still continued to some fair distance.
So many Tibetans camped in a place. Yeah. So they were from Derge province in East Tibet. Oh. Yeah.
And they were called particular area belonging to Chakgothum. Chakgothum? Yep. That’s area in the province. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. In Derge. So they were from Derge Chakgothum. Is that Kham or Amdo?
Kham. Yeah. Is it Kham? Yeah. Kham.
The Yamdrok area. Yeah. Just close by Tori Rinpoche. Yeah. So Derge Chakgothum is from East Tibet.
So they were from Derge Chakgothum, and they were saying we had to leave because Chinese were there. Oh, that way? Yeah. They were just, what I call, canned around huge pasture land. When Rinpoche and the party met them, they said, Oh, we had to leave because the Chinese were there.
Now, you don’t have to worry because we have a lot of weapons, guns, so you stay relaxed. So that night, they stayed in that place, and there were a lot of snows around the place, and still they had to sleep there at the night. It’s very cold. Yeah. They start Many, many people, many horses, mavens.
Yeah. And families. Just me. So many, yeah, families or whole types of people. And they belong to what’s called in the native place, they belong under leader called Chagun Namgyal Dorje.
Chagun? Namgyal Dorje. Namgyal Dorje. Yeah. So this leader in native place, in Derge, under his rule, there would be lot of small, small territories, and these people were from those.
They’re all his. Yeah. Under his rule. Could be around one hundred, yeah, at that time. Those It was so there was children and all?
So in the morning when walking with the sunlight, they could see the whole well, the above part of the mountain. So they were perhaps came somewhere at the middle. They could see only snows, and down there they could see what I call grassland where the animals were grazing. And This party had to stay there because they had to make a work on roads for the animals. So they were they were staying there because they were making roads for the animals, they were what I call making roads in the snow.
And that’s why they had to be there. After, they planned to take the animals across the snowy mountain and then cross. And Rinpoche’s party, they left their mules and horse together with that party. And now Rinpoche had no horse. Rinpoche and the group.
Rinpoche’s horse. Horse. Rinpoche left his horse with that party’s animals. Rinpoche’s party just carried their luggage, what I call packs, on the back, and then they crossed that snowy path. So he had to walk then?
Isn’t that amazing? That’s how long it was. Were his legs still sore? No. No.
It was recovered. Yeah. And then they they had to work or continue crossing that snowy mountain snowy path. So they climbed higher and higher. And nearby top, they could see the peak of that pass.
And that peak had a bit of a a buildup buildup structure at the top with a with a prayer flag at the top. And that prayer flag normally is called Lungta. Yeah. No. So it’s anyway, it’s called the the prayer flag. So that prayer flag marks the border line.
So there would be a lot of at the peak of the past, there would be a lot of stones piled, and on top of these piled stones would be a pole. And then what I call at the top is a prayer flag, and that border between India and Tibet. Oh. Yeah. That no.
No. When they came near, then then there was no fear. It was already coming to India. They knew the Chinese couldn’t pursue them. They they they can’t.
Yeah. That’s right. Because they can’t Chinese couldn’t come that easily into other country like India. So the the party was quite happy being able to escape to India. And then they climbed higher and higher.
Then there were a lot of somewhere near the top, there were a lot of, what I call, a lot of makeshift houses built of timber. And they were like a border check post for Indian soldiers during summertime because wintertime, they they couldn’t be there. They didn’t have any army up there? No. No. Just empty.
No. And when they came on the top, and then there were these makeshift houses, already Already some group of the delegated party had arrived there, and they had occupied some of their houses. And there were still some houses left and vacant, so Rinpoche and party, they occupied some of the houses. But Rinpoche wasn’t actually travelling with the Derge party themselves, were they? I’m sorry?
Was Rinpoche’s party actually travelling with the Derge party or separate? Again, they have to cross down or climb down a snowy mountain and again climb like a small snowy mountain. Again, climb down because They didn’t have any either, which is the proper way to India. They just had to go. It was wintertime.
And there were no tracks? There was snow. No, that’s right. No tracks. And sometimes there’s no that would this about this high, this deep.
And they didn’t have they were just walking with No. Okay. Some monks’ shoes were broken and bloods coming out of their feet, and they had to walk like that. Were they all well? In the snow, they couldn’t show in the snow that they would have any rest.
Yeah. Sometimes when you step on the snow, if you can feel if it’s quite quite strong, hard, then it doesn’t sink. But sometimes if you just happen to step, it just all of a sudden, you sink. Yeah. And then it’s a that this high.
Oh, sink that much? Yes. And then the party came at the peak of a high mountain. And from that peak, when they looked down, they could see everything green and a country with fields, houses, trees, and also they saw a plane hovering in the space. The airplane.
The airplane. No. Could I just check to see if this is recorded? And then the party start climbing down. Snow snow start climbing down and still snow.
But afterward, they touched down to grassland from the snow, and then they came down to village houses of Monpas. So people around that area called Monpa. Monpa? Yeah. Monpa, m o n p a.
Monpa. And the party Rinpoche’s party start going to houses around to ask for shelter, but somehow they were frightened. The Monpas were frightened. I did not sorry? So the and the party Yeah.
They went to some of the houses nearby Yeah. Asking for shelter. But this moon pass, they were frightened. People were frightened. And and and they were just going away and responding in stone.
What did they think? They were demons or something? People, or they might have heard already all these troubles happening in China oh, in Tibet by the Chinese. And then could be some Chinese coming. They might have thought.
And then they stayed in that area for a day, for one night. They settled down, it means when they started settling down in that place for one night. Then after a while, the the Munpah started coming. They started, yeah, coming nearby, and they even cooked some meals, food for the party. So they just made their own camp, did they?
Were they in the houses or in the Mumbai houses? They come when they’re in the Mumbai houses. They have themselves in there. After some then they stop coming. And at a distance was a very big Gundam monastery with the rooftop like Tibet, yellow and gold pendant.
It was very nice. And then Rinpoche’s party, they asked people around. The Monpas, they asked the Monpas what that monastery is, and then they said, oh, that monastery is Monpas monastery we had before. Mentong Monastery. And the party, Rinpoche’s party, haven’t still reached that part.
They have still a fair way to go. The next day, Rinpoche’s party started climbing down, and then afterward, they came to an Indian check post office, motor check post office. One person said, You should go to the office. So they went to the office. Just imagine.
And then in the office, there was one army officer. He looked very impressive. The Indian Army? The Indian Army. Then he asked questions, What do you do, where are you from?
What are you own and where you came from? And then party answered that we are Tibetans and we came from Tibet and through this pass. And then they were all surprised. How come you could pass cross that pass in winter? Not a single person would normally cross or could pass through that pass.
So they were really surprised. And then they said, oh, it’s still very good that you have crossed. And they they were really happy about it. Oh. Yeah.
And then they said, well, you go down further. There there are place houses arranged for you, and you will be given ration of food supplies and clothings, aids for the party. And it’s only about seven, eight days since His Holiness has come through this place. And since then, your party is the first one who have crossed so far. So his Holiness came to that same post, did he?
No. His holiness came not by that route, but some other route. Right. Yes. There are what I call cross other route, but His Holiness parties and churches, only horses and mules were there at that time.
Oh. Means the Rinpochean, they could still see His Holiness parties and women horses. They left a name? Yeah. Then the officer, after the Rinpoche, the officer in that office asked for Rinpoche and his group’s names, their parents’ names, and all the details.
And then the officer said, bringing one person, one Indian person, the officer said, this person is like your care caretaker. And if you happen to need anything, just tell to us tell to this person and he will arrange everything for you. And we will supply you for a week’s time all what you need, all foods, everything. For a week. Yeah.
For for one week. Still, after that or from now, you have to think about what you will do after a week. You have to plan about it because everything all the supplies in this area is being supplied through air. Oh. There’s no road and and train.
So we have got very limited supply, and therefore, you have to just plan what’s what are going to do after that. And then the officer said, It’s okay. No. Then the officer said, in the morning, about eight and nine o’clock, you shouldn’t hang around near the grassland because the plane airplane will come and they will drop supplies, and it might heat on your roof. And then they gave for whole party.
They gave for each of them for each member of the party, they gave supplies of rice, lentils, oil, tea, everything in the. And, again, life was quite comfortable. Because they had place to they they had a house to live in, and then one called didn’t have to fear afraid be afraid of Chinese and have things to eat you know, foods to eat. So, yeah, it was quite Were they still the Mogpa houses, or were they government houses they’re in now? Government.
Government houses. Now this member, membership, where the members are afraid and they left, and again, then they came. And then the party went down, and then they came across the check post. Then check post officer told all of this and then arranged. And then what I call then the other monks, means within the group, the Rinpoche’s group, monks, other monks, they left for nearby villages for begging food.
The Mon Munpa villages, they gave barley, tsampa, and so many other things, and also black sultanas. Black sultanas? And in the evening when they return, they have quite a lot to carry. And Rinpoche heard some of the monks left daytime for begging. Some of them were invited into houses and served tea and asked to tell their stories and escape.
And the family member whom they were telling the stories, they listened in detail, and they would be so what I call so moved that they would the monks said that some of them were crying. And where Rinpoche was at that time, daytime, some members, villagers used to used to come where Rinpoche was and gave Rinpoche, or white or silver tambka coins and tea, black sultanas. So they speak Tibetan? And then some families requested monks to come to their houses and do pujas. And And those monks who went to do pujas, when they returned, they bring a lot of breads and all different things.
So there were a lot to eat. Yeah. Some monks would bring meat, some some butter, bread, rice, lentils. So there was a lot lot plenty to eat. And then Rinpoche and the parties went to visit the monastery.
They visit they visited the After some time, Tibetans started escaping from all directions and arriving in those areas. Then the whole area was a bit crowded with Tibetan refugees, Tibetan escapes. No. But actually, there were no other Tibetans around anywhere when Rinpoche came? Then the Rinpoche, they show at the time.
No. Not a single. No. And then because so many Tibetans arrived, the government couldn’t the Indian Indian officers, they couldn’t supply anymore. And also with the villagers, they themselves were very poor.
They just had enough for a day or two themselves. And it could become quite difficult for the whole area. Was too many people making. No. Which amount are which amount?
Too many people. Mhmm. So we just I bet you don’t want it. That’s how you’re. Yeah.
You’re always escapees, and all everyone didn’t have foods with them. Did they all come the same way as Rinpoche or different? Oh, no. From other directions, one group would be from that direction, which was the alternative, that snowy mountain, alternative part in that two intersection road. So there were a lot of other people coming from that direction.
Some other so many who were having with fight going in sauna. Many people started escaping from an area called Pang. Pang? Yeah, Pang. Just through they arrived.
And then Rinpoche stayed there for the party stayed there for about two to three weeks. And after that, it started raining in the area. And because there were so many Tibetans recently, it just arrived and escaped who didn’t have houses. So it was when it became quite difficult. And some they had to make temporary tents out of, you know, fabrics and string and pawn.
And because Rinpoche’s party arrived first and had already been given houses, so it became quite weird. Means the situation seems quite ironic. Then same refugee escapes, but bit of indifference. So he was well off, the others had nothing, so it must have been a bit of awkward. No.
No. And they were just saying you know, they were just thinking that we’re all same escapes, and they were saying, oh, you you you you all seem to be very well off. Yeah. And then people started selling their belongings, clothes, jewels, everything just for in change of food, meat, butter. And all people were selling at, you know, unbelievable price, low price.
And some rich people around the