Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. Vasubandhu’s analogy of a plate, rice, curry, and a diner eating with his hands gives Khensur Rinpoche a vivid entry point into the five aggregates in this 101-minute Heart Sūtra commentary. He explains why Śāriputra — whose sharp wisdom traces to a past-life lamp offering — was blessed to raise questions, and why Chenrezig’s bodhicitta made him the right respondent. The session then works through the four empties applied to each aggregate in sequence: “form is empty” refutes eternalism; “emptiness is form” refutes nihilism; the third and fourth establish that form and emptiness share one nature. Rinpoche frames the outcome practically: realizing emptiness is medicine for all 84,000 mental afflictions rooted in the three poisons. A closing Q&A addresses whether the labeled “I” coexists with the aggregates and how to identify the object of negation before meditating on emptiness.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 04 HS 2000 11 01.mp3
UUID: f8812ede-284a-4f0e-853f-0b875d1f56f6
Teacher: Khensur Rinpoche
Collection: Heart Sūtra (Khensur Rinpoche)
Date: 2000-11-01
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 100.9 minutes
Words: ~4,288
If the practice of listening and giving teaching has been performed with the motivation of altruistic intention or bodhicitta, then the practice will become very effective and the result of such practice will be good, very good. So in order to usher free both self, self and others from the sufferings and bring them to the state of unsurpassable happiness. For that purpose, I shall here purify all the negativities and attain the ultimate qualities. For that purpose I shall here listen to this, the essence teaching of Mahāyāna, the emptiness teaching, and through this bring great benefits towards self and others. And on, we shall do a short meditation on such motivation.
Great master, Lord Buddha Śākyamūni, was in the meditative stabilization on the profound in the Vulture Peak. And the Vulture Peak was the place where the Heart Sūtra was taught. And he blessed both the disciples. There are different types of disciples who were receiving the Heart Sūtra teachings, including human, Bodhisattvas, the the god beings of the god realms and so forth. And they were there to receive the teachings and he blessed the Lord Buddha, has blessed the Śāriputra and Avalokiteśvara Chenrezig.
Through the power of his blessings, the Śāriputra raised the questions and the Chenrezig gave answer for the questions through this, the disciples have been taught. So we have stopped at last week where the question of Śāriputra which was asked to asked to Chenrezig. The Śāriputra, the question was that those who those who and etcetera, which means those who then the daughter and the son of noble ones or noble ones here refers towards the Mahāyāna practitioner and and those who wish how one should how those who wishes how those who wishes to practice practice profound. So, yeah, that was the question. So how those who wish to perform, wishes to practice perform, how can they practice?
And the answer was given by Chenrezig. And the answer was the Tibetan word which is in the religious terminology is calling the person one with life, which means the the or affectionately or feeling of closeness. And Śāriputra, listen. And this is how those who this is how one should train or those who this this this is how one should train and perform by those who wishes to learn or train and perform. So so from here begins the real training or real meditation on way of doing meditation on emptiness, the answer was the all the five aggregates are also should see should also see the all the five aggregates as inherent are not inherently exist inherently existent.
And the number of the disciples who were receiving the Heart Sūtra teaching was set forth two thousand five hundred in the humans or the Bodhisattvas. And numbers of other beings like God and the fairies or it’s called the smell eaters and the demigods are in numberless, which means so they are the countless disciples who are receiving Heart Sūtra at Vulture Peak. The reason why the Śāriputra was blessed to raise the question is because the Śāriputra was at that time was the liberated or the arhat of lower Hīnayāna or lower vehicle. And the reason why he was blessed is because it was set forth that he has a very, very sharp wisdom. And in other interpretations also said that because he is the Hinayanist or the lower vehicle practitioner, and it was implied that the taught truth teaching or emptiness should be listened by other lower vehicle practitioners.
And the Śāriputra has a very, very sharp wisdom and the reason was because before previously he in his previous life he has seen the picture of the third Buddha, which was Buddha Nyusum in Tibetan word. It’s Krakucchanda. I think Buddha Krakucchanda. And he has developed a huge devotion in faith by seeing the picture and offer a very clear lamp for that offering as offering to the picture. And so as a result of making that offering, he attained a very sharp wisdom, become very sharp wisdom.
And Lord Buddha blessed generating Avalokiteśvara to give the answer. It is because Avalokiteśvara was has a very compassionate and kind hearted and has a very yeah has strong bodhicitta and therefore if the person give the answer to answer with the kind heartedness or with the huge bodhicitta, it will have more benefits to the disciple. The reason the Buddha blessed Avalokiteśvara to give the answer. So, it says the want you to see the five aggregates are also not inherently exist or are inherent not inherent existence. So the five aggregates are the form, form aggregate, feeling, recognition, compositional factors and the aggregate and the consciousness.
So the form which is our body, the body is called form. And the feeling is the one which we feel. It’s called the feeling aggregates. And recognition are the one which we within ourselves, it’s a form. It’s an aggregate which recognizes how distinguishes what is what and which is which.
And that is the one called the aggregate of recognition. And the aggregate of compositional factors and the aggregate of consciousness is the one which we distinguish the body and the mind. And so the word we say mind is the one which is called consciousness and and it is like a it’s like a mirror. The conscious everything appears on our consciousness. And apart from those four, there is the one which is called the aggregate of compositional factors.
The master Vasubandhu has the example of distinguishing or demonstrating the five aggregates or the aggregates of form is like a plate. And the rice, the food or rice which contains in the container is like an aggregate of feeling. And the curry or a vegetable which you put on the rice is called, is like the aggregate of recognition. And the person who eats the food is like the aggregate of consciousness. And in India people eat with their hands.
All the actions of gathering the food, mixing the rice in the curry, and then finally the movement of the hands action is like the aggregate of compositional factors. It’s very good example. So the five aggregates are the saṃsāra. So the interpretation below the autonomy school of Madhyamaka class, below those, below lower classes, below the Autonomy School of Buddhist tenets, or asserts that first four aggregates, the aggregates of form, feeling, recognition and compositional factors are like a container yeah like a container where one takes a one takes a birth, or a rebirth. And the consciousness is like a is a person who takes rebirth in that, in those four aggregates.
So therefore, all those five aggregates or both the container and what contains the consciousness and the rest of the four, about four aggregates are saṃsāra. And the consequentialist, the Prāsaṇgika of the Madhyamaka, only the Middle Way School was set forth to be the ultimate or the utmost class school of the tenets. As such, all the five aggregates from the feeling of sort of aggregate form till the consciousness. All five aggregates are like a container where one takes a rebirth in or it’s like a container. And the one who takes rebirth or rebirth is not the consciousness are not the one which take the rebirth.
The one who takes rebirth is the I which was labeled, which is labeled towards the five aggregates. So the I which labeled to the five aggregates is the one which takes rebirth in those five aggregates. So, Buddha Śākyamūni seen those sentient beings, the circle in the cyclic existence which his five aggregates. And by seeing those sentient beings circles in the cyclic existence, he couldn’t bear how people take rebirth in the cyclic existence. Therefore, because of the circle in the cyclic existence, he developed a huge compassion and wanted to develop a wish to free those sentient beings from the cyclic existence or saṃsāra.
So when we say saṃsāra sam the saṃsāra doesn’t mean all those external materials like stones and so forth. The actual saṃsāra is our own body, which is the yeah, no, Our body is the saṃsāra. So, yeah, and circle. The beings circles in the cyclic existence within these aggregates, which is saṃsāra, how the circles in the cyclic existence is that there are five aggregates starting from the form till the consciousness. And they’re called we have ignorance, and we have the ability to see the true nature or the reality of the aggregates, but because of the ignorance which covers us from seeing the reality, and that ignorance obstructs, because of our ignorance which we can’t see the true existence or the true modes of the five aggregates.
And because of this, the ignorance, we develop a number of attachment, hatred and confusions. For example, because of the ignorance and we develop attachment towards a very good form and hatred towards bad form or ugly form and confusion towards neutral one. And likewise it goes then towards the rest of the four aggregates, feeling and so forth. Because of this cultivating all this hatred attachment and so forth, we cultivate different types of karma, the action. And as a result of the karma, we take rebirth again and again and changing the body one after next.
And this is how the being circles in the cyclic existence. So, and here the aggregates are not the external aggregates, it’s within ourselves, our own five aggregates. And so because of having ignorance, one develops a number of karma or negative actions like hatred, attachment, confusion and so forth. And as a result one cultivates the karma and circles inside the existence. And the main sources are the five aggregates where one cultivates all this action.
So in order to, Lord Buddha Śākyamūni, by seeing all those sentient beings circled in the cyclic existence because of those confusions attachment, hatred towards the developed based on the five aggregates. Therefore in order to help them or stop them from circling in the cyclic existence, he set forth one should see five aggregates are also empty of inherent existence because which is set forth for a method to overcome all attachment, hatred and confusion so that one will not, as a result, one will not circle in the saṃsāra. So it’s set forth. The the form is form is empty of inherent existence. And why it is empty of inherent existence is because the form does not exist by its own nature or by its own accord.
Because of this, because it doesn’t exist by its own, but for ordinary beings, the form appeared to be inherently exist by its own. So therefore, because of seeing the appearing form as inherent existent, the being circled in the saṃsāra. So, if you have a very good and sharp wisdom, and here starting the topic or the teaching on the emptiness, and if you have sharp wisdom you will learn a lot. You can understand the true nature. And if you don’t have a good wisdom, you may not understand it.
So, the form is empty of inherent existence, and so it doesn’t exist inherently. And the inherent existence of the form is called the if one perceives form as inherent existent, then one falls towards the eternalism, which means that because of this true grasping attitude, which is ignorance, one exaggerates or elaborates on something, making something exist the fact, in fact that thing doesn’t exist. So if one sees the form as inherent existent, then one falls towards the one extreme, which is eternalism. So when one said form is empty of inherent existence, which means the form is the object here where one is analyzing whether its inherent exists or not. And when it says the form is empty of inherent existence, it does not mean that form is empty or form does not exist.
No. So when we say the cup is empty, it does not mean that cup does not exist. What it means is the cup contains nothing. So, likewise, when say the form is empty, it does not mean that form does not exist. What it means is form is empty of inherent existence.
Which inherently existence is, so when we say the form is empty, Yeah, it refutes the negation the negation which is the inherent existence so form empty means the form does not the form is empty of inherent existence and which establishes the emptiness of the form. So from here, now here, starting the applying four empties on the object which is form. So when it says the first, the form is empty, which is the first that the form is empty of inherent existence. And that eliminates the refutes, the first negation, which is the inherent existence or we call the eternalism. Empty the emptiness is form now.
And when the empty yeah. The emptiness is form, that second one refutes nihilism. Because, its reason is because the inherent excuse me. Because form is empty of inherent existence, so the but it does the yeah, the form is empty of inherent existence, but it still does the function of a form even though it’s empty or empty of inherent existence. Therefore, it does exist but do not exist inherently or do not, but yeah, yeah, yeah. But it’s still the empty of inherent existence.
Therefore, it refutes the second one called the nihilism. So, briefly speaking, what it means is even though form is empty of inherent existence, but it does exist. That’s the meaning. So, the second one establishes or shows the form does exist, and because it says the form does exist, the dead refutes nihilism. So the form is the basis and where the emptiness of the form is on or within the form.
It’s like the cup. The cup is the basis, and the emptiness of the cup is within the cup. And the third one, the first one, the form is emptiness, emptiness is form. Now the third one is the form is not other than emptiness. Yeah, form is not other than emptiness which means that, which implies that form is not the, form is the different, form, which means that the form and emptiness has one nature or one entity.
It’s like calling flower and metok. So the menthol is the flower in Tibetan. Though we say it in different words, flower and menthol, but it has the same entity or it holds the same entity and the nature. So likewise, the emptiness of the form, the form is empty, emptiness is form, and that emptiness of the form does not have the different entity than the itself. Therefore, form is not other than the emptiness because they all have the same entity.
And the fourth one is the emptiness is not other than the form, which goes the other way around, which means the form is the emptiness before it says the form is emptiness and something is empty which is the form, Yeah, the form is emptiness and emptiness is not other than form, which means that there is nothing empty other than the form. Therefore, emptiness is the form and because the emptiness is the form and the form is the emptiness, and for that reason or therefore, the emptiness is not other than the form. So, yep, so up to here, the four empties that was put on are set forth along with the form by saying the form is empty, emptiness is form, form is not other than emptiness, and emptiness is not other than form, which which by here have taught the four empties. And the text goes, likewise feeling, which means now we have to apply four empties towards the aggregate of feeling. So if one understands clearly how to apply four empties on the first aggregate, which is the aggregate of form, then applying the emptiness, four emptiness, towards the rest of the aggregates are easy.
And if one do not understand the the the first one, the four empties of the form, and tries to attend towards the next four empties, then it becomes like getting the second stick on the head. Anyway, listen carefully. And like the previous one, the form is empty, which means the form is empty of inherent existence. It also says the feeling is empty of inherent existence. So first one, feeling is empty, emptiness.
The first one refutes or avoiding one from falling towards the one extreme, which is the eternalism. That by saying the form is empty, which is empty of inherent existence, yeah, no. No. And the second one is emptiness. Emptiness is feeling which refutes the other extreme, is nihilism.
So emptiness is feeling, which means that even though the feeling is empty of inherent existence, but it does not mean that it doesn’t exist at all. It does exist. So because it establishes the feeling does exist, that refutes the nihilism. And nihilism is the one which says that something doesn’t exist. Saying that nihilism is the view which establishing something does not exist in reality that thing does exist.
And the third one is, the feeling is not other than the emptiness, which means that there’s no other, which implies that there is no other entity which is different than the feeling. So, nature of the feeling and the emptiness of the feeling is in one realm. And And emptiness is no other than the feeling, which is that emptiness has the entity different than the feeling. So therefore, the emptiness, because emptiness does have the same nature as the, or holds the same entity of the feeling, therefore the emptiness is not other than the feeling. And should apply same emptiness full emptiness towards the recognition.
The recognition is empty of inherent existence. And emptiness is recognition. And applies the same that the feeling is not other than the emptiness and emptiness is not other than feeling. The the end the recognition is not other than emptiness and emptiness is not other than recognition. And now the the the fourth aggregate, which is aggregate of compositional factors.
So the the the aggregate the four compositional factors factor is empty of inherent existence or is empty? And empty emptiness is compositional factor? And the entity of the emptiness and emptiness of compositional factors are in one nature and are not separate or not different. Therefore, the compositional factor is not other than emptiness, and emptiness is not other than compositional factor. And the fifth one, the aggregate of consciousness.
The consciousness is inherent empty of inherent existence, or consciousness is empty. And emptiness is consciousness? So, and because the entity of the consciousness is not other than, Entity of the consciousness is not other than the emptiness. The entity of the consciousness is not other than the entity of the consciousness. And because they maintain or because they have the same entity or a nature, both the consciousness and emptiness of the consciousness.
Therefore, the consciousness is not other than the emptiness, and emptiness is not other than consciousness. By training through or in these empties of the five aggregates. Through this one understands the true nature or the reality, the way of existence of the five aggregates and by knowing so, by knowing this one abandons the ignorance which stops us from seeing the reality or true mode of existence. And by knowing the benefits of understanding or realizing the emptiness of the aggregates is that one will be able to or one abandons all the attachment, hatred, angers and so forth which produce through the ignorance. Therefore, they are the two types of illness, the physical and the mental illness.
And the mental is the worst. The physical illness comes from or through mental. And as for the mental illness or disease, they are set forth to be eighty four thousand, yep, mental illnesses. All those eighty four illness are based or comes from the three poison, the attachment, anger, the attachment desire or attachment, hatred and the confusion or ignorance. So the emptiness is like the medicine for the hundred illnesses or hundred disease. So they are the disease, the mental disease in number of eighty four thousand, and the emptiness is the medicine which cures all disease.
So, if you want to cure those diseases or illness, should meditate on emptiness. Through meditation on emptiness one cures the mental or internal disease, and by curing the internal disease it automatically cures the external as well. So therefore, if you want to cure both the diseases or illness, the internal and the external, should meditate on emptiness. So here, the great master says, Those who do not realize or understand the emptiness is not the basis to attain liberation, which means that without understanding the emptiness or without knowing or understanding the emptiness, one will not attain liberation. By not attaining liberation, then one circles in the cyclic existence or saṃsāra and suffers.
Yeah. That is. We’ll stop here and give you one question. Okay. Joe’s the person.
You mean the which was the labeled one? It does coexist. It’s because one, it’s like a subject and the object, and the subject doesn’t exist without object. And the object doesn’t exist without subject. So therefore, without yeah.
Yeah. It’s like subject and object. So therefore, the the the eye, the labels eye towards the five aggregates do does exist or coexist with the five aggregates. For example, like the current aggregate and the labels are, and the current five aggregates are the object and it needs a subject which to perceive eye for those five aggregates and which is the present eye. So both the present eye and the five aggregates exists at one time or coexist.
Next. The connection, the relation here is at the Vulture Peak, the numbers of disciples are gathered who were keen to hear on the teaching on the emptiness and everyone gathered at the Vulture Peak was an interest, on emptiness. And Buddha Śākyamūni then thought of how which is the best way to teach the emptiness towards those keen disciples. And by knowing and by checking, and finally made up finds that the best way to teach is to bless both the Śāriputra and Avalokiteśvara, which was in the sense blessing, which is remind all the answers, was making Chenrezig to be able to give all the answers for the question and bless Śāriputra’s mind stream to raise suitable or good questions. Through this the question and answer comes from the Śāriputra and Avalokiteśvara and comes the relation between those two, the the aurora machine.
And the aurora machine. So the relation here and the word we say, the blessed by the Buddha, Śākyamūni, and it’s unlike the Buddha, the Śāriputra and the Avalokiteśvara was able to give the answer and raise the question the way the Buddha Śākyamūni had in his mind. So this is the connection I guess you were asking. So, so, so the blessing Can I finish first? So, because this is how it’s called the blessing.
It’s because the action has been done by the Śāriputra and the Chenrezig, but the original source is the question and answers was arranged or organized by Buddha Śākyamūni himself. And, yeah, of course. So he arranged all the question and answers and blessed those two disciples to raise the question and the answer according to the way he has arranged the teaching. So the blessings in the hear sense, they’re blessed through his power. The Buddha Śākyamūni was the cause, and Buddha Śākyamūni blessed those two disciple, And they are like a messenger.
They’re just passing them. So it’s like the Australian Prime Minister written some letter or statement and asked his secretary to go down and give this speech. So the secretary was the one which speaks to give the speech, but the fact is it was the prime minister’s speech. It’s not like the Avalokiteśvara, Śāriputra, Buddha Śākyamūni gather before, and then they discuss, and then it’s not like that. Do you have to know how something does not exist?
Thank you. The children’s she’s she’s ordered before you know. Yeah. No. No.
It’s the way you exist doesn’t exist and exist out. Yeah. So the answer was no, and it’s like the empty of inherent existence and the inherent existence. One does not need to understand or know the emptying of inherent existence before inherent existence. Because the inherent existence, one should not realize or one should not know the inherent existent.
Inherent does not need to know because inherent existence is within us from the beginningless time. By nature, it’s there. And through this comes the end. So therefore the answer is no. But it depends on if one realizes the emptiness or to cultivate the emptiness then one has to or one needs to recognize the object of negation which is inherently existent and which was the one, the inherent existence is the one we eliminate and came to know or realize the object is empty of inherent existence.
It’s like the throwing arrow and to hit the arrow one needs to know where the target is. So it’s like, and for that purpose one needs to know the object of negation which is inherently existent, to know the emptiness of inherent existence, but one do not need to know what what was the question? Yeah. So do alright. Do you have to know something doesn’t exist before?
It’s a how. Okay. Do you need to