Audio recorded at Tibetan Buddhist Institute, Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 94-minute session, Kyabje Rinpoche provides detailed philosophical analysis of how karma works according to Cittamātra (Mind-Only) philosophy. Working through stanza 17 of Je Tsongkhapa’s root text, he explores the distinction between a virtuous or non-virtuous mind as it arises and the imprint it leaves after ceasing. Using anger as a primary example, Rinpoche clarifies that the faulty component of anger is not itself the karmic imprint—it becomes one only after anger dissolves, like garlic scent lingering in a vase. The teaching is followed by extensive Q&A where students probe: how bodhichitta (which never ceases) imprints karma, whether each instant of virtue leaves a separate imprint, and how this framework applies to enlightened minds. Rinpoche emphasizes that understanding the beginning of this topic is critical; early confusion leads to hopelessness later. Suited for serious practitioners already familiar with Buddhist philosophy.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 4072017Cittamatra – KR.mp3
UUID: 302c8302-7601-4656-b1a0-75af41709993
Teacher: Kyabje Rinpoche
Collection: Karma
Recorded at: Tibetan Buddhist Institute, Adelaide
Words: ~4,258
So in Chitamatra, we distinguish between the supported, the mind basis of all and excuse me, the supporting, the mind basis of all and the supported, the imprints and the supporting the mind basis of all is instance given of the person. So when we try to identify the basis of all, we must distinguish between the supported imprints and the supporting mind basis of all. And here we enter into the realm of karma. So how precisely is karma accumulated? Karma is accumulated through infusing seeds or imprints and to be infused they need an extremely stable ground of infusion or base of infusion and this is the mind basis of all.
So here one refers to the accumulator of karma and the experience of the maturation. In both cases, this is the person of which instance is none other than the mind basis of all and the karma which is accumulated is none other than the karmic imprints of the potencies which are implanted or infused in that very mind basis of all which then in turn experiences their maturation or fruition and this mind basis of all goes on to future lives. So this is a very profound analysis. So here, therefore, the basis of all is subdivided into the mind basis of all, which is the supporting basis of all and the supported basis of all, which are the imprints and we therefore have a two fold definition of basis of all, which you find in verse five of the root text of Je Tsongkhapa on page three. I assert that within the two definitions, the definition of basis of all between subdivided into being subdivided into supporting and supported has two aspects.
Therefore, listen carefully at present to the explanation of the meaning, the nature and the instances of the supported basis of all, in other words, the imprints. You do not listen carefully, then apart from the terms, you will not be able to understand the meaning. Then at the monastery, when we received classes in Buddhist philosophy, previously, then at the beginning, we always listened carefully to the teachers. If one doesn’t listen carefully at the beginning, then later on one gets extremely confused. If one does listen carefully, one doesn’t.
So the beginning in all things is critical for instance, if you cut the beginning of the head of a snake, then it cannot do anything. Likewise, the beginning of a new topic is extremely important. If one does not understand this beginning, then later on when doubts arise, one becomes hopelessly confused. Then in the monasteries at the beginning when a new topic is introduced, the debates are extremely intense as one is endeavoring to understand this new topic. And as this moves onwards, as one proceeds, the debates drop in intensity as one is focusing more on one’s own understanding.
So initially, one begins with the understanding arisen from hearing and later one tries to generate that arisen from thinking. So now you inquired last time about how conceptual consciousnesses can turn into non conceptual consciousnesses. And here, I would not like to refer to the first ground, is a state we have no experience of, but our own direct experience. It is through habituation with the object of a conceptual consciousness that this conceptual consciousness eventually becomes non conceptual. Then the example Geshela would like to give to understand this is that of seeing someone from afar.
When we see someone in the distance, we can say when they’re far away that they’re a human being, but whether we are dealing with a man or a woman is unclear. As they approach, they continue approaching, eventually we are able to distinguish clear and say this is a man or this is a woman. In the self same way, it is through constant habituation that eventually the conception which doubts whether this is a man or a woman in the distance eventually becomes the direct perception this is a man or a woman which knows. Do you understand? This is excellent.
This is something we have experience of. So we therefore are doubting at the beginning whether this is a man or a woman, but I shall not explain too much about this. This is something we have direct experience of. So this is the mode of transformation of conceptuality into non conceptuality. There is a reverse mode of transformation of non conceptuality into conceptuality.
You got to think about it, it’s a difficult one. Now, in the case of bodhichitta or great compassion, we must analyze carefully the object of bodhichitta is full and utter enlightenment which obviously we cannot realize directly. Likewise, the object of great compassion is all sentient beings. These can only be realized directly at the level of full and utter enlightenment which is different from for instance, the realization of impermanence or emptiness. Impermanence and emptiness are concepts with which we become habituated over time before getting direct realization of.
Now, the case of the sensory consciousnesses, the issue is difficult. We have as you know, five sensory consciousnesses. But if we take for instance this table, then what sees the table? Well, the eye sees the table, but obviously the eye is not the visual consciousness. Then if we take this book for instance, obviously, it is perceived by the visual consciousness, but we say that the person sees it.
Then if we try to analyze what is happening, it is difficult to say that this visual consciousness is conceptual because a conceptual mind mixes sound and meaning generality. Now here there is no mixture of sound and meaning generality. Then obviously it is easy to give the definitions which are drawn from the textbooks of conceptual minds or sensory consciousnesses which are consciousnesses with uncommon controlling condition is blah blah blah. Basically what is lacking there is the direct experience and this is not something we have. Then obviously, it is very helpful for us to know the definition of these advanced stage, such as the path of accumulation of preparation, seeing, meditation, normal learning.
But what is even more important is to try to blend these definitions with an understanding of what these definitions stand for. What matters fundamentally is to understand however, the states of mind which are present within our own mind stream. For instance, desire, anger, pride are present within our own mind stream. Then their root is said to be the ignorance grasping at a self, but we must be able to identify this ignorance grasping at a self. I notice that when we talk about it, you seem to confuse the I and the ignorance grasping at a self.
These are different. Then for instance, we establish a distinction self cherishing on the one hand and grasping at a self on the other hand. But why exactly do we do this? We do this because it is said that at the level of an arhat, self cherishing is still present, but grasping at itself is absent. However, in our own cases, we have no experience of being an what so ever.
So this is based exclusively on text and actually some text do not establish a clear distinction between self cherishing and self grasping. Then consciousness is subtle indeed but these are all present within our mind stream. So we need to accumulate experience and to reflect and then accumulate more experience. Now at present the supported basis of all, please listen carefully. Then try not to become stupefied from the beginning.
If you do, then there will be no hope to gain understanding later on. This topic of the supported basis of all is an extremely important topic and one must be mindful of the qualities and the defects of the seeds. Now when one speaks of qualities and defects here, these are seeds from the standpoint of virtue on the one hand and from the standpoint of non virtue on the other hand. This is a topic we should understand incrementally later. Now here when we are speaking of seeds, we must be very clear.
We are speaking of seeds of potencies or of imprints in the context of the mind basis of all. We are not speaking of the seeds of potatoes or tomatoes. Please do not confuse. So these seeds here are seeds which are present within the mind stream of sentient beings. And obviously, potato and tomato seeds are matter.
Right? They’re not present in your mind streams. Here, we should understand scenes or imprints from the standpoint of the accumulations, the accumulation of merit, and the accumulation of wisdom. As a result, our outlook will become broader. So here at present the explanation of the topic, the supported basis of all of the seed begins in stanza 17.
So infusing the supported, the seed basis of all, when the basis infused is manifestly oriented towards ceasing, a potency has been placed. Khensur Rinpoche’s commentary explains the nature. In other words, the actual definition of this topic. Then you have the root text of Je Tsongkhapa. If you can memorize these stanzas, that would be marvelous.
If you can’t, at the very least, do try to understand their meaning. So now the two first verses of stanza 17, the order of the verses is different in English and Tibetan. Infusing the supported, the seed basis of all. So here, the seed basis of all is that which is infused. Infused by what?
Infused by the seven collections out of the eight collections of consciousness. Do you understand? Correct? So actually, when we say these seven collections of consciousness, it’s preferable to say these seven collections of consciousness and associates, which are first with the mental factors associated with them. Now here the first word of stanza 17 through which in Tibetan is an instrumental conveys the cause or the agent by which the infusion occurs and in the third verse, when the basis infused is, the basis infused refers to the mind basis of all, that which is infused.
So we shall proceed by first explaining the terms one by one and then giving an example. Then understanding will be easy. So here, the supported basis of all, in other words, the seed is if you wish an effect. It is an effect which is implanted by what? By the seven collections of consciousness of the within the eight collections of consciousness.
And what is left is the base in which it is implanted and that is the supporting mind basis of all. Then this occurs naturally within our mind streams. We have no personal experience of this. It just occurs naturally. Now the two final verses is manifestly oriented towards ceasing, a potency has been placed.
So here, when we say ceasing, what is meant here is the relinquishment of these consciousnesses, but in actuality, it means that these consciousnesses are getting closer to their goal. And at this point, a potency has been placed in what? In the mind basis of all. It’s a little bit difficult, but I think with time, it will become clear. So here, as you remember, the seven collections of consciousness from within the eight are the infuser of the karmic imprint.
Now what exactly is the meaning of ceasing in verse four of stanza 17? You can see that when the cause has ceased, the effect is on the point of arising. So here, therefore, the root text says manifest the oriented towards ceasing. This refers to the seven collections of consciousnesses. And manifestly oriented towards ceasing means that they are on the point of being relinquished.
When they are relinquished, what happens? Actually, a karmic imprint arises. Then have they turned into a comic imprint? That is something we have to examine. Let us take the example of falling asleep while thinking of something or someone virtuous, such as for instance, our spiritual teacher or emptiness.
Then at this point, that mind of sleep becomes virtuous. It has a virtuous potency. Can we say that it is a virtuous potency? No. We cannot.
But we can say it has the quality of being virtuous. It is similar to that. This is a very helpful way to understand it. This virtuous mind and the virtuous potency are two different things. As we fall asleep, this virtuous mind eventually dwindles and disappears and at that point, it will have implanted a virtuous potency or a virtuous seed in the mind basis of all.
How is that? This is a mode of implantation into the base of infusion. It’ll become clearer over time as you ask questions. It would be difficult for this to become clear at once. This topic of the infusion of karmic imprints in the mind basis of what which is a base infused is a difficult topic.
So let us take the case of anger, which is very helpful because all of us without exception have experienced anger. Then when anger arises, it is a faulty state of mind. It has a faulty component. Now, that faulty component is not anger, it is something else. When anger is present, can we say that the karmic imprints of anger are infused?
No. It is actually when anger ceases that that faulty component remains and that is what becomes the karmic imprint. Now whether the karmic imprint is itself of the nature of the ālāyavijñāna or not, that we have to check. So this is the mode by which karmic imprints are placed. What is important to understand is that before the karmic imprints are implanted or infused in the mind basis of all, they must have ceased as is said in the verse, manifestly oriented towards ceasing.
Now, the Infusers are overwhelmingly virtuous and non virtuous minds. They are indeed neutral minds, but we will set that aside for the time being. Then there is an interesting doubt which arises as far as minds arisen from meditation are concerned. Let us take the case of bodhichitta, which appears at the level of the path of accumulation. It’s present all the way up to the path of seeing and so forth.
Now, bodhichitta is a mind that arises from meditation. It’s very strange to say that bodhichitta should cease then, but bodhichitta does implant karmic imprints in the ālāyavijñāna, then how can it implant them without ceasing? And this calls for examination. So now within the seven collections of consciousness from the eight collection of consciousness. You know, seven collections of consciousness are infusers.
Of these seven, six, the five sensory consciousnesses and the mental consciousness clearly cease at various levels of the sleep state. So they can, according to this mode of explanation, infuse karmic imprints in the mind basis of all. Now as far as the seventh consciousness, the afflicted mind is concerned, it’s difficult to see how it ceases. So the explanation is difficult to provide. The issue we have to address is when, let us say, anger infuses a karmic imprint in the mind basis of all.
Then that faulty component of anger subsists after anger has disappeared and turns into the karmic imprint infused. Can we say that anger has turned into a comic imprint or not? It’s very awkward if we say yes, but otherwise, what’s the explanation? Then at the level of full and utter enlightenment, obviously, as you know, there are no karmic imprints, and this enables us to understand why. Because clearly, at the level of full and utter enlightenment, mind such as bodhichitta or the wisdom realizing emptiness are uninterrupted.
Then they have qualities undeniably, but what precisely and how could karmic imprints be infused if the minds are uninterrupted and do not cease? Likewise, if we take the case of bodhisattvas, then their virtuous imprints would mature but when and the non virtuous imprints would mature but when as well. So let us meditate at present during a couple of minutes on this topic, and then we will have question and answer. So what Geshela would like you to reflect about is first the meaning of verse of stanza 17 through infusing the supported, the seed basis of all when the base infused is manifestly oriented towards ceasing, a potency has been placed. And Geshela would like you to understand that whole anger for instance has a faulty potency or a faulty component.
That faulty potency of anger when anger is present is not the karmic imprint infused by anger. I can answer to why you have your questions. I was actually going to ask Geshela if he could talk about that faulty component. If he could just elaborate on the characteristics of the faulty component of anger which although he just said is not the karmic imprint but it somehow transforms into the karmic imprint. I’m just wondering if he could just clarify what that faulty component is.
I don’t know what more to say, it seems clear to me. So I would suspect that what is happening is that when anger is manifestly oriented towards ceasing, is actually dwindling within the mind. As anger is dwindling within the mind, that faulty component, in other words that potency becomes clearer and clearer. Does that relate to same with the virtuous potency as one is thinking of emptiness or one’s as one is going to sleep? That which accords with reality, which is the distinction between what is virtuous and non virtuous, is that the aspect that we are talking about is the sort of the component of what a virtuous, what is virtuous and non virtuous that that is where the potency lies, that which is in accordance with the way things actually is.
I don’t understand your question. I’m just trying to, there’s an element that carries forward whether it’s virtuous or non virtuous that remains as the seed transforms into the seed. I’m just trying to get a sense of the element. When we speak in Tibetan of a factor which is defective It just is another way of saying a defect. A fault.
Yeah. I can just follow through. Does this relate to what Rinpoche was talking about, the difference between say garlic in a vessel and when you take the garlic out, the imprint is like the smell that remains. The difference between and I’m not sure whether this is correct in terms of a seed and the imprint or is seed and imprint the same or I remember Rinpoche using that analogy, but I’m not quite sure whether it applies in this in this case or not. So indeed, these examples where which compare imprints to the smell of garlic exist.
And in Chitamatra, imprints and seeds are synonymous. So this example is very clear. If we have a piece of garlic, then it smells of garlic and we put it in the vase, the vase smells of garlic. But when we throw the piece of garlic out of the vase, the smell remains in the vase. Likewise, anger has the smell of the fault attached to it.
But when anger has ceased, nonetheless, that smell of the fault remains. However, one must be very clear here that even though when anger is present, it does have that faulty component we compare to a smell, that faulty component while anger is present is not the karmic imprint infused by anger. That only appears when anger has disappeared. Would like to ask, you know, anger has faulty potency, but also, you know, like, you nurture some virtuous deed nurtures virtuous thought. Is that nurturing is like a karmic input?
You know, like you feed on and on on that, you know, like anger, if you nurture that anger in your heart Mhmm. And it’s like a, you know, like the the the the garlic in the jar and it will become a coming input. Uh-huh. But what does it have to do with virtue? The virtuous one.
Yes. Yes. The mode of becoming of non virtuous and virtuous karmic imprint is the same. It’s better not to say that anger is in your heart, anger is not in one’s heart, anger is in one’s mind, it’s a mental factor, it is a mind. It is better not to say that anger is in one’s heart, anger is a mind, it’s a mental factor, its nature is mind.
Put it precisely. Then I took the example of anger because we all have direct experience of anger. If you have direct experience with virtue, then it’s the same process. Okay. So I just wanted to go back to that example of falling asleep with a virtuous mind imagining perhaps thinking of your guru or emptiness.
And so if it has the quality of being virtuous, that mind as you’re going to sleep, what is it only has the quality of being virtuous so what is it that’s missing to make it virtuous? Because tonight it was said it has the quality of being virtuous but it’s not a virtuous mind when one falls asleep thinking of one’s guru for example. So what happens is that when we fall asleep, that virtuous mind disappears, so that is what disappears. But at the point of its disappearance, the benefits or the qualities of that mind, those turn into karmic imprints which remain and those are infused in the mind basis of all. My understanding of the mind is that because it is impermanent, virtue and non virtue arise and subside every instant?
If that is the case, is it that each instant of an arising and subsiding of virtue or non virtue leaves a karmic imprint? Yes, definitely. Every instant. They infuse virtuous and non-virtuous potencies in the mind basis of all. Okay, so there are a few components to what I wanted to say.
The first was to check my understanding via perhaps imperfect analogy. What came to mind for me was a candle that its flame eventually whittles and the final moment of the flame is the first instant of the smoke which perfumes the space. So the flame doesn’t become the smoke but the final instant of the former proceeds the latter. So I wanted to check if that was a reasonable analogy. The second component was to offer a proposition on how is implanted.
It would seem that it is implanted whenever a deed that is motivated by bodhichitta is completed so that each deed that is commenced with the motivation of bodhichitta would seem to have an end and when that deed is completed then the bodhichitta would be implanted even though the bodhichitta is constantly there. And the final sort of doubt that I wanted to raise was the Chitamatra assertion that the supporting basis of mind is an instance of the person but the supported isn’t is like saying that an empty set is the person but the elements of that set are not the person which is like saying pure empty space is the universe but the contents of the universe is not the universe. So it doesn’t seem to make sense to me, that position. So your first example is a good one, but there is a problem which is that we generally consider that the last instance of the flame of a candle is a substantial cause of the first instance of the smoke. Based on that example, the last instance of anger which implants a karmic imprint in the mind basis of all would be the substantial cause of that karmic imprint which is problematic.
Then your question about bodhichitta, the answer is problematical because the text on Cittamātra say that the infuser must cease before the infused karmic imprint is implanted and bodhichitta does not cease. And then in brief what was your third question? Try to summarize it. No. There is no way that the karmic imprints can be an instance of the person in Chitamatra.
Okay. It was said tonight that one can only realize bodhichitta at the level of full enlightenment. So what then is the realization of the bodhisattva? We’re talking about the object of observation of bodhichitta, right? Yes, the object of observation otherwise, bodhisattvas have bodhichitta.
The issue is the object of observation of bodhichitta is full and utter enlightenment that cannot be realized until one has attained it. So before attaining full and utter enlightenment we have generated bodhichitta but we have not realized the object of observation of bodhichitta. Alright? If the karmic imprints are laid instantaneously due to the mind arising or subsiding in the same moment, does that mean that bodhichitta does not need to cease altogether in order for it to lay the karmic imprints because they are being laid at every moment. So here, when one says in stanza 17, manifestly oriented towards ceasing.
This ceasing does not refer to the momentary change of a mind. It refers to the last instant of a mind before it disappears or turns into something else. Okay. So we shall stop here for today. Thank you.
So please reflect on the mode of implantation of karmic imprints and Geshela will continue in the future lessons. So as I, Geshela, commented tonight on the supported basis of all relying on stanza 17 and only on stanza 17, please focus and try to understand the meaning of stanza 17. Okay. Thank you.