Audio recorded at Tibetan Buddhist Institute, Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 63-minute teaching, Ilia Durovic presents the three Buddhist cosmological realms from a Cittamātra (mind-only) perspective. He explains how beings progress from the desire realm—where happiness derives from sensory objects—to the form realm through cultivating calm abiding meditation, recognizing sensory pleasures as coarse and unsatisfactory. Beings then advance to the formless realm by withdrawing from all tactile and visual stimuli, dwelling exclusively in concentration. The core doctrinal focus is why the ālāyavijñāna (mind basis of all) of formless-realm beings has no appearing object: form cannot appear to a formless being without contradiction; consciousness cannot appear since the being is already pure consciousness; and abstract concepts require effortful mental engagement rather than spontaneous manifestation. Durovic works through two lines of reasoning, then addresses student questions on whether formless beings can realize selflessness, why Pabongka warns against aspiring to formless rebirth, and whether progression through concentration stages inevitably leads to formless rebirth. Pitched at practitioners familiar with Buddhist philosophical terminology.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 02052017CITTAMATRA – KR.mp3
UUID: 2ec24757-1e42-4f9f-91bc-95e4e5816e8c
Teacher: Ilia S. Durovic
Collection: Karma
Recorded at: Tibetan Buddhist Institute, Adelaide
Words: ~2,609
Mhmm. So I would like to cover two topics today. The first is a brief presentation of these three realms, the desire realm, the form realm and the formless realm. And the second is the rationale for which the mind basis of all of beings of the formless realm has no appearing object. In other words, experiences no appearing object.
You probably have heard the references to the three realms, the desire realm, the form realm and the formless realm and the presentation of these three realms is identical in Buddhist and non Buddhist schools. Therefore, this is a very important topic. Then this topic raises often a lot of doubts because one wonders where precisely in the so called formless realms. When we say they are formless, what do we mean? What do we mean when we say the being has no form?
Then I cannot say whether the there is a presentation of the three realms in Christianity or in Islam, but certainly presentation of the three realms in Buddhism and in Hinduism is globally identical. One attains mainly the form and the formless realm’s in dependence on śamatha, on karma, blindly. Generally speaking, happiness is subdivided into two, physical and mental happiness. And when we refer to physical happiness, this is a happiness which arises to the experience of the sensory objects by means of the sensory consciousnesses. Now, beings such as ourselves are said to be beings of the desire realm because the main source of our happiness is the five exterior physical entities, which give rise to sensory happiness by means of the sensory consciousnesses.
Because we desire these objects, we are called beings of the desire realm, and this includes not only human beings, but animals and so forth. Now, as far as mental happiness is concerned, the main obstacle to mental happiness are the afflictions under the sway of anger and so forth. And the means to counter these afflictions is to pacify the mind. One of the means of pacifying the mind is the practice of Samādhi or concentration. When one trains in Samādhi or in concentration, then exterior sensory satisfaction starts to appear as very coarse and one focuses on interior satisfaction.
Now here, once one starts to turn away from a satisfaction which is rooted in exterior physical phenomena and focuses more on an interior mental satisfaction, Even though the terminology path shared with the being of the small scope is not used, nonetheless in terms of realization, there is a strong similarity. So the beginning here is a clear understanding of the existence of physical and mental happiness. So here, one should really present calm abiding, but we don’t have the time. It is too vast a topic. But once one starts training and one eventually is able to give rise to a stable calm abiding, one’s mind is no longer distracted by coarse exterior sensory stimuli, and one focuses mainly on interior mental happiness.
And as this calm abiding increases, it does not degenerate, one eventually reaches a point where one can be called a being of the form realm. Of course, So here, there are no distinctions whatsoever between Buddhists and non Buddhists. There are both Buddhists and non Buddhists who have attained these states. Fundamentally, when independence on stable calm abiding, one’s mental happiness becomes very profound, then one views all exterior physical happiness as profoundly deluded, as filthy, as unsatisfactory, as transitory, and one focuses exclusively on mental happiness. At this point, one can be called a being of the form realm.
This does not mean that one has migrated anywhere or one is somewhere else. It is a mental state. So this is what you have to understand. One could enter into great detail studying numerous texts, but in brief, this is the presentation. So at this point, when through the power of calm abiding, one has withdrawn one’s mind inwards in a stable fashion, one can be called a being of the form realm.
And for such a being, most of the time is spent in calm abiding, and there is only occasional use of the visual and the auditory consciousness. The other consciousnesses like the olfactory or gustatory consciousnesses are no longer operational. Then apart from the visual and the auditory consciousness for a being of the form realm, there is a doubt whether there is tactile consciousness, tactile awareness or not, but there probably is neither olfactory nor gustatory consciousness anymore. They are no longer operational. Now for such beings of the formless realm, as was said, probably neither the olfactory nor the gustatory consciousnesses are operational and perhaps neither the tactile consciousness either.
In this respect, they are profoundly different from ourselves who seek the experience of good food and the smells of good food. Such beings dwell mainly in calm abiding. In this respect, form beings or being of the form realm are said to survive on mental food or the food of concentration, the food of Samādhi. This is not food as we understand it. It simply means that the bodies of these beings are supported by concentration, and ordinary food is no longer really necessary.
Then, through seeing that the activities involved with form, with matter present numerous defects, great effort is required to get a house and so forth. Eventually, through reflecting over and again on the defects of all activities involving form or matter, such beings become formless realm beings, focusing exclusively on inner mental satisfaction. Then, through reflecting over and again on the numerous faults of visual and auditory stimuli, which foster tremendous distraction. Such beings generate the very powerful wish to be free of their body and generate a powerful impelling karma, which matures at the time of their death and causes them to be reborn as formless beings without a body, abiding exclusively in Samādhi or concentration. In brief, one progresses from the realm of desire to the realm of form through training in calm abiding upon viewing the numerous faults of objects of the senses which obsess beings of the desire realm.
And through viewing these faults, one eventually reaches a state of a being of the form realm. A being of the form realm is still in a condition where his focus on mental happiness is mixed with interferences from the auditory and the visual consciousnesses. Through generating a profound wish to be completely freed from any physical or sensory interferences, such a being continues to train in calm abiding and generates a powerful impelling karma, which causes him at the time of death in his next life to be reborn as a being of the formless realm with no coarse physical aggregate. So, please reflect carefully on the fact that exterior physical objects cannot provide authentic lasting satisfaction, And through understanding this, both Buddhists and non Buddhists in the Indian traditions, train in concentration and calm abiding to free themselves from the obsession with exterior physical objects, and can progress to the level of the form and eventually of the formless realm. Then through this explanation, I hope that the coarse ignorance which was present regarding these three realms, the desire realm, the form realm, and the formless realm has been somewhat dispelled in the commentary on the root text of mind and the basis of all.
You have numerous references to the lower two realms, the higher realm, the desire realm, the form realm, the formless realm. Hopefully, now you have a better sense of what all of this means. So this is therefore the meaning of the three realms, and at present the issue which we have to address is from the standpoint of Cittamātra, what precisely appears to the Alāyavijñāna of a being of the formless realm. Now, as Jetsunpa asserts in his root text, neither the five sensory consciousnesses nor the five sensory entities appear to the Alāyavijñāna, the mind basis of all of a being of the formless realm. And regarding this assertion, are two ways of thinking.
The first points out that if this was the case, then since you would have the maturation of a karmic imprint within the of this being, which would give rise simultaneously to a consciousness perceiving form and to form, form would exist for that being. The second way of thinking is as follows. Should something appear, should there be an appearing object to the basis of all of a being of the formless realm, then such an object would either have to be form or consciousness or non associated compositional phenomena. Now, if form were to appear to a being through the Alāyavijñāna of a being of the formless realm, then there will be form on the basis of the formless realms, which is self contradictory. If consciousness were to appear to the Alāyavijñāna of a being of the formless realm, then such a being is already itself by definition pure consciousness.
There is no relation. Finally, if one were to say that non associated compositional phenomena were to appear, what precisely would one posit as non associated compositional phenomena in this context? So this is how one has to look at it, then this is not an easy topic, so you should discuss it and ask questions. The second line of reasoning is as follows. We can all see that as far as sensory consciousnesses are concerned, no particular effort is required in the experiencing of the objects.
We make no particular effort to look at things they appear to us. Likewise, for smelling, for hearing, or for touching. Tactile sensation just happens. Then there is a discussion further down in the text regarding the status of abstract concepts such as the four noble truths and so forth. And it is perfectly possible that for the Alāyavijñāna through training, this spontaneous appearance does not appear.
Very well. So this is in a stanza which is not yet in your version. I’ll read it to you. It’s the following stanza from the root text. Objects of the sixth of the sixth apart from organs and entities do not become objects of the basis of all because the sixth is the imputing subject and the basis of all is devoid of apprehending the variegated.
This will be presented later, I’m just mentioning it for the record. So then perhaps one day when we are able to realize by means of the Alāyavijñāna abstract concepts such as bodhicitta, such as the Four Noble Truths, such as renunciation and so forth, then for sure, we will have progressed beyond the realm of desire. And frankly, here in this context, the Alāyavijñāna can be understood as referring to the fundamental mind. We will be able to use the fundamental mind. There is a verse in Vasubandhu’s Triṃśikā, the Thirty Verses, in which he says, the aspect is not cognized or cognized.
Here, the aspect refers precisely to this type of experience. At present, let us meditate first on the distinction between the three realms, and secondly, on the reasons for which the Alāyavijñāna of a being of the formless realm has no object of appearance. Mhmm. Please open the prayerbook. We recite page one, one b, two, three, four, and also page five, number six, offering, those one one and three.
So as was mentioned, we need to make no particular effort for phenomena to appear to our sensory consciousnesses, whether these visual objects, auditory objects, and so forth. They appear spontaneously without effort from our own side. However, we do need to make effort for concepts such as the Four Noble Truths and so forth to appear to our mental consciousness. Now clearly, if they were to appear to the mind basis of all, the mind basis of all would be able to use them, which it is not able to do at present. Then at present, Geshela will take a couple of questions.
Okay. Forgive me if I have this very wrong, but is Geshela a being of the form realm? No. I’m a being of desire. Yes.
We are beings of the desire realm. So my question is about the formless being. If they have stopped imputing, does that mean that they have the beginnings of realizations of selflessness? There are beings of the formless realm who have realized selflessness. There are beings of the formless realms who are arhats.
But they cannot use In Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand, Pabongka Rinpoche features that it is better to aspire to be reborn as a human rather than being of the formless realm because after your karma runs out, you fall back into the lower realm. Could Geshe-la please make a comment on that? Very good. Have to wait a long time. This is a very good question.
What does happen is that as one attains the state of a being of the formless realm in dependence on calm abiding, such such beings identify the bliss of calm abiding with liberation, which it is not. And they stay in this state for a very long time. Eventually, they fall from this state, and at this point, they think there is no such thing as liberation. Liberation cannot be attained, and as a result of this wrong view, they are indeed reborn in the lower realms. This is why gives this advice.
Who are the beings of the formless realm? These are beings who, through seeing the faults of sensory objects, like the objects of sight, of hearing, and so forth, then meditate on calm abiding over and over and over again, and eventually reborn reborn in this state. Mhmm. With progressing through the stages of calm abiding, is it inevitable that as one progresses through those stages of calm abiding that one will become a formless being? No, there’s no definiteness.
It is only independence on the motivation which sees the faults of material objects and aspires for a state without matter that one is reborn as a being of the formless realm in the next life. Another question? Okay. Yeah. How long can a being that has has a form exist without sustenance of some kind?
I I just can’t grasp that how they could live just on mental. The key here is to have realized calm abiding. Then once one has realized calm abiding, one can remain without eating for one hundred years, one thousand years or more. So I was wondering why consciousness cannot appear to a being of the formless realm. Why consciousness cannot what?
I might have been why consciousness cannot appear to a being of the formless realm. It was said that the being of the formless realm is made of consciousness is consciousness, and that it’s not possible. Yeah, I’m not sure. I just Geshe-la said to the mind basis of all of a being of the formless realm, not to a being of the formless realm. To the mind basis of all of a being of the formless realm, consciousness cannot appear.
What Geshe-la said was that there is no particular reason or relationship for which consciousness can appear to the the mind basis of all of a being of the formless realm. So present, we will have the discussion session. There are two topics of discussion. The first is the mode of progression through the three realms, the desire realm, the form realm, and the formless realm. And the second is the reason for which Alāyavijñāna, the mind basis of all of a being of the formless realm has no appearing object.
Okay, please.