Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 25-minute interview, a grade-twelve student questions Geshe Pema Tsering about the sacred objects in a Tibetan Buddhist center, starting with how to evaluate a thangka. Geshe Tsering explains that a good thangka must be beautiful, correctly proportioned (painters must study mathematics), and symbolically accurate in every color. He then unpacks the imagery of two Buddhas in union — representing bliss and emptiness, the highest happiness beyond saṃsāra, not ordinary desire. The conversation covers offerings made to statues, dharma texts, and stupas as representations of the Buddha’s body, speech, and mind; why peacock feathers appear on altars; the humility a teacher must demonstrate before mounting a teaching throne; and the layered symbolism built into every section of a stupa. A clear, accessible introduction to Tibetan Buddhist iconography for newcomers.
File metadata (for organising)
File: interview.mp3
UUID: 2e724447-faea-4f67-bcc3-136cca7f6ff6
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: z Unallocated multiple years (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 25.2 minutes
Words: ~2,200
Let’s see if it’s working now. Got it? Okay. So you have a mic and I have a mic. So we we just press record?
It’s what it’s recording. Okay. He said he doesn’t know much, but he’s just gonna say that, isn’t he? Okay. Yeah.
So tell me you have any questions. He said it looks like good to him. I said, what do you see? He said, it looks like good. Mhmm.
So you said the you look at a thangka, you’re looking for certain qualities in the actual the painting. Right? He’s talking about the painting, not symbolism. Right? In terms of the painting, you’re looking for something that’s gonna inspire you.
You’re looking for something that’s beautiful. Right? If it’s not beautiful, it’s not gonna lift up your mind. Yeah? So you wanna find something that’s beautiful.
So that’s the first thing you look for. Yeah. But it’s not the only thing you look for. Also, when you’re looking at a thangka, need to see if it has all of the qualities or all of the characteristics that you need in order to be able to use it for meditation. So he said, for example, a good Thangka has to have the right right proportions, and in order for it to have the right proportions, then people who learn to paint thangkas have to learn mathematics.
They have to learn how how the proportions should how things should vary, the size of things should vary, and they need to know how to map it out. If they don’t know how to do that, then you’re going to end up with a thangka with a big head, or a small hand, and it’s going to be disproportionate and you’re not gonna believe it’s real. You’re not gonna be able to focus on it as being something that you can that looks real. Yeah? So you so they all need to be in proportion.
So he’s he’s talking about in terms of the way it’s drawn. Right? And then he said, so all the symbolism has to be perfectly executed as well. If the color’s wrong, and they have to know all the people who are painting it need to know all of these things. They need to know exactly what needs to be what color.
Yeah? And exactly the tone of the color and things like that in order because the colors are very important symbolism. Okay. So then I said to him, I think the other part of the question he’s asking is how you personally use it. Yeah?
How you use this thangka. Because he was saying, how does he see that thangka? And that’s different to how he uses it. Alright? So he sees it and he looks at the qualities in it and then if everything’s represented properly and so on.
How he personally uses it is that when he sees the thangka, he thinks that is Vajrasattva. That is. That is Vajrasattva. Yeah? And Vajrasattva is a Buddha.
Alright? So he would see it as being a Buddha. So coming into the presence of a Buddha and specifically the Buddha of purification. Yeah? So the Buddha that purifies like a confessional Buddha.
Yeah? And so he would see it as this is something that I can pray to. Alright. Yeah. Mhmm.
Mhmm. Okay. So this is the reason that you have two Buddhas in union is to represent the union of emptiness and bliss. Alright? Emptiness and bliss.
So it’s it’s a it’s said to be the closest physical representation to we have to the union of bliss and emptiness. Alright? So it’s used as a representation of the union of bliss and emptiness. Does that make sense? What grade are you in?
Twelve. Okay. Because he said that in terms of our personal experience in saṃsāra, it’s thought that the highest I’m sorry if this is too explicit. The highest happiness that one can experience is in orgasm. Alright?
Yes. And if they want to show something that is the highest bliss Yeah. Yeah, they are showing something that’s represented by that. Okay? So it’s showing but it’s not that because it’s nothing to do with our attachment and our desires and everything.
It’s the highest happiness. Mhmm. Yeah. So to have the highest happiness represented, that’s what they used to represent. And in doing so, they’re showing two aspects, two Buddhas.
One one representing bliss, one representing emptiness. So they are showing you that it’s beyond saṃsāra happiness. Mhmm. I guess it’s it’s not Okay. That actually is up to the artist.
Artist. Which yeah. Which what they want to represent. So sometimes you see one emblem for Vajrasattva, and sometimes you see three, sometimes you see twenty one. Alright?
It depends on what they’re Alright. So the the top one is what’s called Samantabhādra. And Samantabhādra is — there’s in one tradition, in the Nyingma tradition, the representation of the dharmakaya. Alright? So you you they’re thinking of something being in two forms, the Buddha being in two forms.
Two, yeah, subtlest form and the less subtle form. Okay. So it’s levels of realization it represents. So it’s like you’ve made an offering to the the Buddha. You’re making an offering of of of clothes to the Buddha.
Oh, so actual clothes instead of just rather just sculpture. Yeah. Said you’re making an offering of cotton or you’re making an offering of material to the Buddha. Is that going to the books? Hang on one second.
And he said the reason that you do that is yeah. No. That’s okay. The reason that you do that is so that you can create merit, that you can you have the opportunity to do something positive. Alright?
So it’s for your people who offer that. I’ll ask about the books now. It’s to protect the books as well. And he said that if you are going to it’s the same sort of thing. You’re you’re trying to do something with the to create positive potential.
Yeah? So you’re making you’re giving and you’re giving to the Buddha, Dharma, and the Sangha. So by by giving to the the Dharma, giving to the text, you wanna give the best you can. Alright? So if you give something that represents the robes of a monk or a nun, then that’s a a very profound representation.
So you wanna that’s a good to the importance to the the importance that has the Tibetans is the same as people. He said, yeah, they’re considered equal because the statues represent the Buddha’s body. And the the the text represent the speech of the Buddha. So the the text or the Dharma is the speech of the Buddha. So you treat that with respect.
Then also the the stupa represents the mind of the Buddha. So you wanna treat the Buddha’s body, speech, mind equally. I’ve forgotten the word for feather and I’ve forgotten the word for peacock. I got it. They have a special word for peacock feather there.
No. To look pretty. Yeah. It’s like offering flowers. It looks nice.
It’s it’s they’re also thought to be clean because the the peacocks always really look after them. So it’s offering something clean and pretty. And also in ancient India. In ancient India, they used peacock feathers to designate that it was a king present or to decorate something that belonged to a king like a hat or whatever. Alright?
And you see the maharajas in India, have peacocks in their peacock feathers in their hat. But Geshe-la said, but that’s all by the by. The main thing is they look pretty. He said that’s what peacocks can do, not peacock feathers. Okay.
The more Buddha pictures you have, the more Buddha pictures you’re gonna see, the more that you’re gonna think about the Buddha. Alright? The more you think about the Buddha, the more lifted your mind can be as opposed to thinking of things negative. Yeah. So the more pictures, the better.
Okay. So for this very much, obviously, used for meditation, that’s probably what you want. Is it Many book pictures. Okay. So there’s all sorts of people come here and if you put all sorts of Buddhas in the world, then for one of the very everyone, there should be a Buddha they like or a picture they like.
So you have all different people and that’s why you have all different images of the Buddha. Alright? So you the more images of your Buddha you have, the more chance that one person is gonna find a Buddha that they like. Okay. Yeah?
Sounds good. Yes. That everything in this place? It has to be. Okay.
So it it’s a throne that people teach Dharma from. Right? But before they’re allowed to sit on the throne, they have to do a lot of processes to kind of counteract any negative thoughts that could come up from them being on the throne, so therefore they’re being important. So before they get on the throne, they prostrate three times to the throne. Yeah?
So that you’re you’re not there because of you. You’re there to teach the Dharma. Is that valid? Yeah. Yeah.
And then jump around this. And then jump around this. And then, yes, completely lying yourself down on the ground. Alright. Yeah.
And and then they he walks up the stairs, and as he’s walking up the stairs, he says his prayer. I’m not doing this for myself. And then he also says this thing is, all compounded phenomena are impermanent. Alright? And does a click which represents that everything is changing in every moment.
So then that is to stop him getting pride pride. To stop him getting proud. So it will stop whoever’s teaching to you from being proud. Okay. Just what exactly are they different from, like, the country or region of origin?
Like, the what about those ones? Like that one. Uh-huh. Okay. He said he said the Buddha’s from India, and because they look like Chinese Buddhists, they’re probably from China.
Right? And I said, no. I don’t think he’s saying Right. Where or or Taiwan. And he said, I’m not sure.
And I said, no. I don’t think he’s actually asking where the Buddha came from because he can look that up in a book. He’s asking where the statue come from. He goes, Geshe-la. So then. He goes, well, I’d say it’s probably the same.
That statue probably comes from India and that one probably comes from China. Because he said that one’s probably made in Delhi. Most statues are made in Delhi. And this and most Buddhist statues these days are made in Delhi. And he thinks this one would come from China as well, the statues as well.
That’s alright. No. That’s What’s the important? It’s to make sound you can make sound from it? Oh, well.
Yeah. And that’s an offering of sound. Yeah. To make an offering of sound. Oh, very nice.
He’s giving you a demonstration. Okay. Geshe-la thinks that someone put those wheels on there because they thought they looked pretty. He doesn’t think that they’re there for any particular reason. But wheels in Buddhism represent the Buddha teaching the Dharma.
When the Buddha taught the Dharma, it says that he turned the wheel of Dharma. Yeah. So that’s what that represents. Okay. But it doesn’t he doesn’t think it particularly needs to be there.
They just thought, oh, this will look pretty. I was was asking about what was that? Yeah. He has no idea what’s in it. Oh, so it’s very special.
Storage. Yeah. A place to stick stuff. It’s not gonna help my assignment. Just what is the point of the shape of the stupa?
There’s so much. He said Oh, it’s too much. Every little knob and every little dint on that stupa represents a quality of the Buddha. Quality or equal? A quality.
A quality. Okay. So the Buddha’s mind said to have many different qualities including four types of mindfulness, five powers, five strengths, four what are called legs of magical manifestations. So it means they can perform miracles and stuff, all of these different qualities. And each little bit of that represents a different quality.
It’s there’s six different sections on it, which represent the six different realms of Samsāra and all of them are in the mouth of Yama who’s the lord of death. Right? So it’s showing that everybody in Samsāra is ruled by death, that they will die. And then in the middle of that, that’s got the the Oh. It’s got a pig a pig, a snake, and a chicken, which represents desire, aversion, and ignorance, which is the cause for saṃsāra.
Which one’s ignorance? Yeah. The pig. Okay. The rooster’s desire and the yeah.
And the what’s the other one? Snake is anger. Okay. No. That’s ignorance.
Ignorance. He said the pigs are the pigs represent ignorance because they sleep a lot. Oh my god. They don’t use their mind a lot. Okay.
Alright. Thank