Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. Verse 71 of Nāgārjuna’s Precious Garland supplies the sharpest image in this 69-minute session: eons of pleasure on Mount Meru’s crest, then rebirth to wade through glowing coals and rotten flesh. Geshe Pema Tsering uses the verse to explain why heavenly enjoyments — and ordinary human pleasures — cannot produce real happiness: contaminated by craving and ignorance, they reinforce self-grasping and drive rebirth in lower realms. His practical instruction is careful: we need not suppress pleasure, but experience it with a mind that knows its unreliable nature — and can transform everyday suffering and tainted happiness into motivation for bodhicitta. A Q&A explores karma and conditions through the example of Lama Zopa Rinpoche’s tireless offerings, and closes on a student’s pointed question about whether enjoyment itself is wrong — Geshe’s answer: enjoy it fully, just don’t grasp.
File metadata (for organising)
File: Geshe Pema Tsering – Track 16.mp3
UUID: 207ff7d9-5b17-4053-a917-cb86e1241018
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: z Unallocated multiple years (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 69.4 minutes
Words: ~5,059
So, Geshe, was just going through the the words of the of the Tibetan verse and explaining those words, but in English, it’s it’s gonna come out basically the same thing. So, again, it’s talking about the the pleasures of the higher realms of existence. So, the devi, which is of the higher realms of existence. So so those devi are then the the goddesses, the goddesses the heavenly realms of existence. So again, enjoy the caresses, the touch of those very beautiful beings for a very long time.
And yet, in the future, when we have to enjoy for a very long time sorry, when we have to experience for a very long time the sufferings of the hell realm, which is then all the the tearing and the crushing and the beating of all and all that. So, again, Geshe-la is going for the commentary, and the commentary is telling us again that one might be born in the for for very many years in the in the heavenly realms, and one might be able to enjoy for, you know, thousands and thousands of years. One might be able to enjoy the pleasure that arises from caressing and and sporting with the goddesses of the heavenly realms. And yet, one will still have again to be born in the lower realms of existence by the force of one’s karma. One will have to be born in the lower realms of existence again.
And once one is there, if one is born in the crushing hells, then one one will be constantly crushed by huge iron mountains they will unstoppably keep on crushing everyone there is between those mountains. If one is born in the in the black line hell again one will be constantly chopped to death and in other sufferings one will experience you know most painful blisterings and burnings and one will have to experience all these different types of suffering that are produced, all these different types of sensations and sufferings that are produced by the machine of the hell realms, the suffering machine of the hell realms. We have to experience all these unbearable, extremely unbearable sufferings. So, the English line isn’t saying we don’t we don’t even need to talk only about the gods and the goddesses, enjoying the gods and the goddesses of the heavenly realms or, you know, husbands and wives or boyfriends and girlfriends of of our current realm of existence. Anything that we experience with attachment or any pleasure that we derive by the force of our attachment we regard it as being something good, being something which is alright and we don’t see any problem with it and the fact is that all these pleasures that are experienced through the force of attachment they are all going to cause suffering in the future So again we keep on hearing all the time that you know it said that we shouldn’t harm others we should always help and then try to benefit others we should never cultivate ill will towards others.
We should always have a good thought. We should always cultivate a good heart, have this benevolent intent. We keep on hearing that said at all times. And we think that by acting this way, we we will accomplish happiness, but in in actuality, we don’t. And the reason we don’t is because we are so afflicted by craving, by by craving and by attachment.
We do those actions by the force of craving and attachment. Craving and attachment for our partners, for our husbands and wives, for our lovers and whatnot. And then we act in those ways only by the force of attachment. And attachment, because attachment originates from suffering sorry from ignorance then again it is an afflicted state of mind it’s a distorted state of mind and which then inevitably causes suffering. So in this way, we what we create is suffering in the end.
So again, because we are not really accomplishing any real cause of happiness, because we are so involved with attachment, we’re so involved with craving, because of that, because these afflictions are pervading our actions in this manner, then what our actions then do in this context is reinforce our grasping onto an inherent existence self, our self grasping, and reinforce our self-cherishing. And in this way, reinforcing the, you know, the major causes that lead us to born, that make us that causes to be born in the hell realms of existence. So if it was real happiness, if those actions in that manner would be providing us with real happiness then that happiness being real wouldn’t change, diminish, wouldn’t deteriorate, it would only increase. The more we do, the more happiness we get. But that is not the case.
The case is that because we are acting from an afflicted state of of of being, state of mind, because we’re acting from craving, because we’re acting from attachment, from self grasping, from self-cherishing, which are fundamental and all very distorted states of mind, very wrong states of mind. So what we get is not happiness. What we get is suffering. If we were to be cultivating bodhicitta or cultivating the mind that realizes emptiness then those things those states of mind those states of being then they really provide us with real happiness and the more you meditate on those things the less suffering we experience the more happiness we experience they eventually those states of mind eradicate every suffering from our minds, from our hearts. So if it is real happiness, that’s how we should be.
So those are the states that we ought to be cultivating, that we should be pursuing. And the other states of mind that we’re talking about craving, grasping, attachment, and so on, they’re all distorted. So they cannot provide us, they’re very wrong, and they cannot provide us with real happiness. What it causes is actually suffering, increasing suffering. So we can see then how this all the the happinesses and pleasures of the desire realm in this manner, they are all unreliable and not to be relied upon.
We cannot count on them because they are really in the nature of suffering in the end. They are and understanding them to be in the nature of suffering in this way, then we have to cultivate a state of mind of contentment, of of of satisfaction. We have to diminish and counteract with this understanding. We diminish and counteract our craving, our grasping, our attachment to those things of the desire realm. Yeah.
Somebody. So again, the whole point of this last topic is again that we should not grasp or crave for these pleasures or these happinesses of the desire realm. So, and again, we are told in the next topic, we move on to the next topic, which is telling again us how the happiness that arises So how we should not rely on the happiness or the pleasures that arises from the environments which we inhabit? Realms of existence which we are inhabiting so in this case at the human realm or the heavenly realms Tuśita the first concentration the second concentration and so on and so on. Showing how these pleasures are unreliable so we read the next verse, verse seventy one, which says again, for years you might have stayed on Merus’ crest, delighting as it yielded as it yielded underfoot.
But think now of the torment that will strike to wade through glowing coals and rotten flesh. Is that alright? So again, I was going through the verse quickly again. So the whole point being that even though one might enjoy such living quarters in which one is really having the Mount Meru below oneself underfoot, all this with all this magic and splendor of a heavily abode castle mansion or whatnot for many years. Then after that, after that many thousands of years, long it may be, one again will have to be born in the lower realms of existence.
One again will have to be born in the lower realms of existence. I guess I was pointing out in the previous verse, we’re talking about enjoying the pleasures that arise from enjoying the caresses and sporting with heavenly maids and whatnot. Now we’re talking about the enjoyment of abiding in a heavenly abode and a heavenly castle and so on. So, again, Geshe-la is then just noting how, you know, this heavenly abodes are really very beautiful and very pleasant places to live in. So everything is in accord with one’s wishes.
Know, if one wants it to be warm, warmer it is if one wants it to be cooler then cooler it is everything is to one’s wishes everything is according to one’s wishes everything is there to pleasure oneself so I mean if one needs to eat then one will have the most delightful things to eat many gods do not need to eat at all so you have all sorts of enjoyments all sorts of pleasures arising from living in places. And again, what we’re being told is that all such pleasures, all such happinesses, they are not to be relied upon. They’re not real. So, again, we’re being told, again, not to not to crave or grasp after these things. Things and yet when we think about all these pleasures, these heavenly pleasures, again we hold them in very high regard, in very high esteem.
We want those things, we think they are good and we can see that for the way we behave right here in this in this plane in this world that we live in you know if there is a restaurant we’re serving good food that’s the restaurant we are going to if the food is not good we’re not going there we go seeking out the restaurants that serve good delicious food that’s the way we do it we go seeking out pleasures out there and so we regard all these pleasures as being good and right and all that and even more so the heavenly pleasures so we we are being told not to crave and grasp after these things, and yet, this is exactly what we do. We we we hold them in very high esteem. So again, we all when we see such pleasures, when we see such happinesses, then we we we really have a wish in our hearts that we may may I have this, I obtain these things, may I experience these things too and we do so because when we look at them we really think of them as being happiness, as being actual happiness and because of that we really like them and we’re really attached to them and we desire them.
So we have this wish to have them even though they are not in the nature of happiness, are in the nature of suffering. We see them as happiness and thus we desire them. All these things. So again, we have to contemplate again, we pursue all these things that we call happiness and yet we have already experienced such many pleasures throughout very many lifetimes we have experienced we have been born as gods and goddesses countless times we have experienced all these heavenly pleasures countless of times we have been born in the human realm and we’re enjoying all sorts of fortunes and delights and whatnot, again, countless of times. And yet, where are they now?
Where are all these enjoyments now? They didn’t last now, did they? Because they are not real. Because even though they are, yes, they are the result of of virtuous deeds, and as such, they do provide us with some happiness, some pleasure, they are contaminated, contaminated by ignorance, contaminated by attachment, and so on. Because of that, they do not last.
They are not real. They cannot be So, again, Geshe-la is going for the commentary, which is saying, again, even though one might be born as as in a heavenly realm and enjoy such an abode, know, great abode with in which one has, you know, Mount Meru, you know, underfoot. And and so enjoying all sorts of pleasures and enjoyments. Even though I might be able to enjoy all these precious all these precious things for incredibly long amount of time is still again by the force of one’s karma one will have to be born in the lower realms of existence and one will have to live in places and one will have to what will be under foot will be hot. How do you say that?
Red hot iron. And one will have to, you know, eat molten copper and drink molten. One will be pour molten copper in one’s mouth. One will have to walk through rivers of corpses and so one will have to experience all such unbearable sufferings and then we are told again this this is for the king right so the king is being told so please do bear these things in mind think about all these sufferings think about all this cycle of existence in this manner so the words that are being used are very high honorific for the king. But this applies equally to us and it’s something that all of us can understand.
So, again, we we we are being told then not to not to be attached, not to grasp after this pleasures and happiness of the higher realms of of the human realm itself, all these enjoyments, all these pleasures. So being told not to not to not to be attached to them, not to grasp after them and so on. And yet, we we do think of them as being real happiness. We do constantly desire them and work to obtain them. So we run after them all the time.
So again, the main thing that we have to work with here is the afflictions. What we have to do is stop our craving for those things because from the craving then what develops is this obsessive attachment to those things which then makes us act in ways to obtain those things. All of this is powered by ignorance itself. The main element here that has to be corrected are the afflictions, not the pleasures themselves, not the happiness themselves. There’s nothing for us to be doing there.
We don’t have to stop the pleasures and the happinesses from happening, from occurring and so on what we have to work with is the afflictions in our hearts and minds the cravings the attachments the ignorance So again, we are still born in the human realms. We are still born in the heavenly realms. Yet, we have to cultivate a state of being that does not make ourselves cherishing ourselves grasping our attachment and our craving increase so we can we can still be born in such places Those experiences of pleasure, happiness and so on, they will still occur to us. And yet by cultivating the right state of mind, they will not act as fuel for or grasping or attachment and so on. So again, we experience.
We will experience the pains and the pleasures, all the sufferings and the happinesses. And yet we ought to experience them. But when we experience the happinesses we shouldn’t think of them as being happiness itself and we should experience them with understanding that they are actually in the nature of suffering that they are fundamentally all those experiences are in the nature of suffering they will not last they will turn they will change into something else they will change into suffering and so on and so on and we we ought to experience them with this a different with an informed state of mind that knows their unreliable reality. And also we can experience them. So we have we can experience them with this informed state of mind and we know the nature of those happinesses as not being reliable as being in the nature of suffering itself.
Also, not only we don’t we don’t have to stop there, can experience them also with the motivation of actually wanting to make it possible make it that others are free from those experiences other beings are free from those afflictions from those pain from those sufferings and those false happinesses can I will experience these sufferings and these so called happinesses so that all the beings may be free from them so it’s like a giving and taking sort of thing one takes all these afflicted things onto oneself so that all the beings may be free from it and attain liberation and enlightenment? Alright? So we ourselves also, we have to start training our minds this manner in which we, even though we are experiencing some pleasure, some form of happiness or some form of pleasure, again be able to exercise, we have to exercise the understanding that during those times that those things are not real happiness. That even though right now I am experiencing this pleasure, I’m experiencing this happiness, it is not going to last. It is really in the nature of suffering, It’s gonna change into suffering.
It is not to be relied upon. I cannot count on it. So we have really to exercise that understanding. This is something that we can we can all do right now. So we all experience every day we experience so so many happiness excuse me so many happiness and so many sufferings.
Every day we experience that and we all this contaminated happinesses and all these sufferings. All beings experience that too. Can take this opportunity, we can take this reality as an opportunity to train our minds and say, okay, may I experience all these things so that all the beings may be free from all those experiences so you take onto yourself all these contaminated phenomena all these sufferings all these happiness so that all the beings are free and in this way may I attain enlightenment so that all beings I and all other beings attain enlightenment in this way. So this way, we we can train our minds and we become just if we keep on training in this manner, then we eventually will become bodhisattvas. We’ll become just like bodhisattvas.
And we are able to take on the suffering and alleviate people’s sufferings in this by training our minds in this way. Okay? So, Geshe-la was going for the very last line of that commentary, which is telling us, which is instructing the king, in our case, instructing us to think, contemplate these things again and again. We contemplate all these realities that how they change into suffering and all that again and again. We should train, persistently train our mind so that we develop this understanding really, a solid understanding of of these realities so that we can then really counteract our craving, our grasping, our attachment, and so on.
Oh, yeah. That’s alright. I was just I was just telling Geshe-la this November, Tuesdays, he’s meant to be teaching the Heart Sūtra. Right? But he’s wondering if if if people wouldn’t want to have the teachings on the equalizing and exchanging self for others that we we couldn’t complete last month.
Equalizing and exchanging self for others. The How many more sessions of the equalizing, exchanging self for others? I could go for for three easily from the at least two or three sessions. Goodness. What about you talked with Lindy about that Yeah.
During the week. Yeah. And see what we can organize. Do you have any questions about today’s teachings? Yeah.
Yeah. Talk to the. When we’re talking about hell realms, we’re talking about lifetimes in the hell realms as well, you know, not just dipping into the hell realms from time to time? Yeah. The question being?
Oh, that’s the question. Is is that he’s he’s talking about us needing to go through lifetimes and living in hell realms. We need to go. Oh, well, we will do it when we need to when feel like we need to do it or not. That’s what what he’s saying.
These physical so Geshe-la is then joking and saying, no. You don’t have to go to the to the low realms because it’s not a happy place. You can go to the heavenly realms, you say. And this the way we we think, isn’t it? You know, if if it is an unpleasant place, we don’t wanna go.
If it is a pleasant place, we want to go. So, we also think, we also wish, you know, we also do not want to experience any illness, right? And yet, we do get sick, don’t we? So we we we need many things, don’t we? We for example, we need a new house, a Buddha house, don’t we?
We want it. It doesn’t come, does it? So we work we work so hard in order to to, you know, attempting to obtain a new house or Buddha housing. Nothing happens, is it? So we don’t we don’t want to get sick.
We don’t want to fall at you, and yet, we do get sick. We engage in all sorts of endeavors. Take medicines and vitamins and preventive medicine and treatments and all that, and still we get sick. We exercise and all that, and still we get sick. So what so what what are the causes?
We have to look into the causes, the reasons why why those things happen this way. Why is it that the things that I do not desire do do happen? Why why is it that the things that I desire do not come about? What what are the causes? What are the reasons?
So again, has to has to look so what who or what makes these things happen in this way? So it is not God. It is not a judge. When we stop when we really think about it, we see that what what makes all these things happen in this way is our own karma, our own actions. It’s the I, the me, the self.
So, again, when we hear about these hell realms and all that, and it’s very hard to to believe in it, you know, these descriptions of all these different types of suffering. That’s very hard to take it into heart, take it to heart. And and so and because we don’t believe in it, these are the words of the Buddha. Right? So because we don’t believe in it, then we do not follow suit.
We do not fall in line with the teachings of the Buddha, and we do not practice or engage in those things that would lead us to be to attain a state of being just like that of the Buddha himself. So in that manner, we prevent ourselves from actually attaining the state. What the Buddha taught us is that, again, this hell realms, the hungry ghost realms, the animal realms, the and all these experiences, they are caused by ignorance. So, this ignorance is is not knowing or a lack of knowledge. A lack of knowledge about the way things exist, the way phenomena exist, about reality.
So, when we see when we see so called happiness, we don’t really know what it is and how it works, it exists, and we keep on regarding it as real happiness. So it’s like we’re really in the dark, it’s like walking in the dark, completely in the dark, in complete darkness, not knowing where we’re going and what we’re doing, really. And then so also the hell realms and all those experiences, they also arise from ignorance itself. Thank you very much. My throat is so dry.
Thank you. So they all arise from ignorance itself. There is nobody who says, oh, he has been good, so send him up to heaven. Or he has been bad, send him down to hell. There’s nobody who comes and decides and those things happen.
It’s one’s own mind. It’s one’s own heart mind that one’s own heart mind actions that will decide those things. So, like Geshe-la says, so now, for example, we were born as humans here in the human realm. Right? And then we have all these experiences that we have.
And for example, we work so hard in order to obtain a new house or Buddha house, and yet we don’t get it. And then here we are, as I was pointing to the two of us, we got a cup of tea, you don’t. So again, you start listening in order to in in this all these pursuits of finding a new house, a Buddha house, we say, you know, Lindy is coming, she’s coming, Geshe-la, you know, and it doesn’t matter what we do, you know, isn’t happening. It’s because of the karma that we have. And Geshe-la wasn’t saying, Geshe-la said something before, he didn’t give me time to say it, but it’s it’s the saying of the Buddha, the the workings of karma, you know, the fine details of the workings of karma, only the Buddha can know.
Only the Buddha can understand. So so he’s saying, so again, you know, we we we experience what we experience because we have accumulated the karma. We have performed the actions in the past. We’re not getting the house probably because we haven’t we haven’t had the karma to do so yet, appropriate karmas or because we have bad karma or whatever. So I want I want to ask a question now to to the Geshe.
So I was asking the Geshe. So we hear we hear the Geshe saying, we hear it said, we cannot get a house for a Buddha house because we don’t have the karma or because we have some bad karma. And then many people they come and think, know, if we don’t have the karma then let’s make the karma let’s make many Guru Pujas and we make Guru Puja and we make Guru Puja after Guru Puja year after year and we still have no house why is that you know and and Geshe was saying look it’s order for workings of karma in order for these things to happen in this manner it takes very many causes and it takes very many conditions to come together for those things to happen. So to make something happen like this in one lifetime, I mean even Lama Zopa hasn’t made it happen yet. Mean he makes pujas every day, all day long and where’s the money?
Isn’t it? So it takes much more than that but we think many people think oh but let’s just make some Guru Pujas and that’s it. But that doesn’t happen that way. We are so overpowered by craving and grasping and attachment and ignorance that all these actions even though they are by be virtuous actions they’re all heavily contaminated and they don’t have enough power and I mean even even great lamas like Lama Zopa Rinpoche who makes offerings twenty four seven. He has been doing so for like, I don’t know how old he is.
Has been doing it for his whole life. And I mean, where is I mean, it’s gonna be an awesome future lifetime, but in this life, it hasn’t happened yet. And we can think in order to understand that, we can think in terms of the analogy of the flower which is usually given. In order to get the flower you have to plant the seed, have to have the proper soil, you have to have the proper nutrients, have to have the water, the sun, all different causes and conditions for us able to get the flower. And this is the analogy that we use.
So we have to accomplish many causes and get together many conditions and still there are many hindrances that come about we have to get rid of all the hindrances of all the pests and whatnot so you know there’s a lot of work to be done there He actually does raise a lot of money, and is giving seven thousand monks. He’s giving food to seven thousand monks every day for like countless days. Okay. Okay. Hillary?
Yeah? I wanna ask about enjoyment. I had the feeling when you were speaking earlier talking about how Lama Zopa Rinpoche does an amazing work and how he has the Kopan monastery and the Kopan nunnery in Nepal, and then all this the support for the monks and Sera and all that, and how he’s doing like a huge work and all because of his offerings. And how he and how he he sends money and resources to many other places also, Mongolia and many other places, many other projects. So what obviously, it wasn’t the right time.
No. No. Go ahead. Just about enjoyment, I got the idea that don’t enjoy it because it’s filled with the possibility of negativity. We’re talking a bit differently about attachment to enjoyment, aren’t we?
Because if you are living in the moment as we should be, when an enjoyment enjoyable thing comes, you’d say, oh, this is very enjoyable, but you know that it’s not gonna last, and it’s not where you should be grasping. Yeah. That’s that’s So you’d be stupid not to enjoy an enjoyable thing while it was there. That’s that’s what Geshe is saying. Yeah.
Yeah. Just don’t hang on to it and think this is the end of of, you know, you That’s what Geshe said. That’s what Geshe said. Yeah. Yeah.
But but sort of enjoy it while it’s there, but then So the idea is that whatever enjoyment occurs, whatever happiness arises, we let it happen, and we do enjoy it we do make use of it or whatever and yet with the understanding that they are not real happiness that they are not to be relied upon that they are not to be counted on that they in the nature suffering, that they will change into suffering and so on. Is that okay? Okay.