Letter to Friend – mulitple years — 2009-03-29

Letter to Friend - mulitple years (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Letter to Friend - mulitple years (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Letter to Friend - mulitple years — 2009-03-29
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Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.

About this talk. In this 96-minute session, Geshe Pema Tsering works through two verses from Nāgārjuna’s Letter to a Friend. He opens by contrasting selfish and altruistic motivation — drawing on Lama Tsongkhapa — before tracing the full arc of bodhicitta: recognizing the kindness of all beings, cultivating great compassion and loving kindness, and arriving at the aspiration to attain enlightenment for their sake. Verse 28 then establishes that wisdom and ethical discipline outweigh any worldly quality — lineage, looks, or wealth — and Geshe details the ten non-virtues across body, speech, and mind. Verse 29 addresses the eight worldly concerns, urging equanimity toward gain, loss, praise, and blame. The session closes with a Q&A on karma: why genuine belief in cause and effect should replace the reflex to blame others when hardship arrives.

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File: 10 2009 03 29 Geshe Pema Tsering – Geshe Pema Tsering Nāgārjuna's letter to a friend 290309.mp3

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Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering

Collection: z Letter to Friend – mulitple years (Geshe Pema Tsering)

Date: 2009-03-29

Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide

Duration: 96.2 minutes

Words: ~5,624

Is starting us to give rise to to a good motivation. And, again, he’s quoting a very, very famous verse from the Seven Point Mind Training. At the beginning and at the conclusion, two actions are most important. And again, those are the motivation at the beginning and the dedication at the conclusion of our actions, of our activities. And Geshe-la was saying, and that is so because the quality of our actions, their being spiritual, their being dharma depends entirely on the quality of our motivations.

So that’s why it is important that we give rise to proper motivation at the beginning of our activities. And Geshe explains that a motivation, it’s being good or bad, a bad motivation is a motivation which is intent on one’s own profit and one’s own purposes alone and has no concern for others. And a good motivation is this benevolent mind, this good heart, which is intent on accomplishing the well-being and the welfare of others, and is not focus on myself. Geshe explains, the reason we say that this motivation that this mind which is intent on one’s own welfare and well-being alone is bad, we say it is bad. The reason we say that is because this is something which we have cultivated, this sort of motivation, is something that we have cultivated since a very, very long time, since what we say, since time immemorial.

Since time immemorial, we have cultivated the motivation. We have acted upon this motivation. And up until now, we haven’t accomplished any real lasting happiness whatsoever. And so, this is the general reason we say that this motivation is bad. We just say it is really bad.

And even if we think terms of this present life alone, that person who is motivated solely by his or her own profit and well-being alone is someone who other people just don’t really like. People don’t like this this person is not liked by others. This person is not is not a pleasant person to be around in general. So then this selfish motivation hinders even the accomplishments of this present life. So that’s why we say is a bad motivation.

And on the other hand, this other motivation, which we mentioned before, this good motivation, which is a motivation which is intent, a mind which is intent on on the welfare, the well-being of others, is something which is very precious, because others are very precious, because others are very important. Geshe explains, now by acting solely concerned, solely intent on the of others, it is not the case that one’s own purposes or well-being will not come about, will be neglected, and we will not experience any well-being ourselves. It is sort of, what’s the word for that? It is sort of implicit. It’s inbuilt in the motivation in acting for the well-being of others, one automatically accomplishes one’s own well-being.

In English, I was quoting Lama Tsongkhapa himself, who was saying, in working for the welfare of others, one automatically, implicitly, one accomplishes one’s own welfare. And even if we think in terms of this one life, this present life alone, if we see those beings, those people who do work to accomplish the welfare of others, we can see how their own well-being, how their own welfare is not neglected, is not diminished in any way whilst they are working to help others. And we can see also, again, as Geshe-la has already said, how those people who work only for their own profit alone, they have a hard time. We don’t even need to mention that they do not accomplish the welfare of others. They have a hard time even accomplishing their own welfare, and they meet with all sorts of hardships.

In In this instance we can clearly see how those people who are working, who are motivated by their own welfare and their own profit alone, how they do meet with all sorts of undesirable circumstances, very unpleasant circumstances. We can see even thieves and robbers themselves, eventually, their actions themselves are very bad, and they end up in jail or committing more serious crimes. People in positions of power also, also, you know, in some ways, they steal money or they do they are dishonest and so forth. And again, they end up in trouble with the law, big trouble with the law, the prison, in jail, and so forth. So we can all see that.

So then it is then important then to consider all these, even with respect to this one present life alone, it is important to consider that thinking of the motivation that is intent on accomplishing the welfare of others is the source of every good quality. And the motivation which is intent on one’s own welfare alone, on one’s own profit alone, is the source of every evil, of every hardship, of everything that is bad. And even more so, is even more important to consider that for us who are striving to attain liberation and enlightenment, it’s important to understand that one is the cause of every happiness and every good quality, including liberation and enlightenment. The other is the cause of every suffering, of every fault, and every shortcoming. And so, then we can see how this mind that is then cherishing others, cherishing the welfare of others is very precious.

And we can also see how there are different intensities. We can see different degrees of this intention to benefit others, of cherishing others. There is I was just giving a couple of illustrations, say, for example, there is a mind which is intent on freeing all sentient beings from suffering and establishing them in the happiness of future lives. Or the mind which is intent on freeing all sentient beings from suffering and establishing them in the happiness of liberation. Or still a mind which is intent on freeing all sentient beings from suffering and establishing them with every happiness in the state, endowed with every happiness, every good quality of the state of enlightenment itself.

So we think about, we can see easily how there are many different degrees of this mind that is intent on benefiting others. So we can see all these different degrees of the mind that is intent on benefiting others, on cherishing others. Now, of all those, the mind of enlightenment, bodhicitta, is the ultimate one, is the best one, is the highest one, is the one that is intent on freeing all sentient beings from every suffering and endowing them with every happiness, every good quality, and accomplishing them in the state of enlightenment for every sentient being. So it is important that we produce and give rise to this mind of enlightenment, to bodhicitta. And it won’t come it doesn’t just come casually.

Doesn’t pop out of the blue, pop out of the blue. So we need to produce it, deliberately produce it in our mind streams. And we need to consider that all sentient beings, without any exception whatsoever, all of them, they only wish for happiness and do not wish for any suffering. And that being the case, I must establish all of them in this state which is endowed with happiness. And when we’re talking about happiness, Geshe-la says, we’re not just talking about any happiness.

We’re talking about lasting, the lasting, reliable, stable happiness of liberation and enlightenment. And Geshe-la is explaining, that mind, or that aspect of the mind which is intent on liberating, freeing all sentient beings from every suffering is what we refer to as compassion. And that aspect of the mind which is then intent on endowing all sentient beings with every happiness. It’s what we call love or loving kindness. And then, so we have this great compassion, great love and kindness, And then on top of that, add this mind, which is saying, will accomplish that.

I alone will that. I alone will free all sentient beings in this world of suffering, that has never ever happened. And this mind, this thought is what we call the superior determination, or the exalted determination. And Geshe-la was just saying, in order to be able to produce this mind, which is then intent, which is then thinking, I alone, I will free all sentient beings from every suffering and endow every one of them with every happiness. In order to be able to produce this, one needs to contemplate, one needs to realize that all sentient beings without exception are greatly kind and they’re greatly precious.

One needs to realize, one needs to come to understand entirely that every happiness that we have ever experienced was given to us by all other sentient beings. And every happiness that we will ever experience in the future, even the happiness of enlightenment itself, going to come about in dependence upon all other sentient beings. And it’s only by developing this profound understanding that will be able then to almost, I may say naturally, then give rise to this intention and to free all of them from suffering and endow all of them with happiness, And to this determination, I myself must do that. I myself must repay their kindness. And then Geshe-la says, and then one has this superior determination, I alone, I myself must free all sentient beings from everything, and all of them have ever happiness.

Now if one stops then to consider, can I do that? Am I able to do that? And if one looks at one’s present condition, one will come to understand that as I am right now, as the ordinary being that I am now, I’m presently unable to accomplish that. What I need to do in order to be able to do that, I need to attain full enlightenment in myself. As a fully enlightened being, I’ll be able to accomplish that.

I’ll be able to free all beings from every suffering and endow them with every happiness, all by myself. So, when one develops this understanding, when this mind arises that I myself, then I must attain enlightenment. When this mind that is striving towards enlightenment arises, that is the bodhicitta. That is the mind of enlightenment. And Geshe-la was explaining, and it’s not merely that thought alone.

It’s that thought preceded by the recognition of the kindness of all sentient beings, by the development of great compassion, great loving kindness, and superior determination. This thought then has been preceded by that, and which then thinks then I must attain enlightenment in order to accomplish that. That is the mind of enlightenment. That’s what we call the mind of bodhicitta. Geshe said previously, I forgot to mention, and Geshe said, with that mind, then one determines, one has this determination, I will engage in every possible virtue in order to accomplish that goal.

And I will rid rid myself of every negativity in order to accomplish that goal all the way until enlightenment. I will work in this way. And with this motivation then preceding our actions, preceding our activities, then all our actions, all our activities, they become Mahāyāna actions. They become Mahāyāna activities. And as such, they become the causes of that enlightenment.

So then we’re giving rise to this motivation now, giving rise to this producing these thoughts now in our minds. You know, I must you know, may all sentient beings be free from every suffering. May all sentient beings be endowed with every happiness. I myself accomplish that. In order to accomplish that, I must attain enlightenment.

In order to accomplish this enlightenment, then I’m going to engage in virtue. And we’re going to listen to these teachings, and we’re going to, you know, learn the teachings, Dharma teachings of the Buddha, and put them into practice. And in this way, with this motivation right now in our minds, we start with the preliminary prayers, and so forth. So we are approaching the next topic, which is then familiarizing ourselves with the qualities of the antidote to these seeds, the seeds of the afflictions. And the antidote is emptiness, so the realization of emptiness.

So again, familiarizing ourselves with the qualities of emptiness, of the entity which is emptiness. So we read the root verse from the letter to a friend, number twenty eight, for those who are following. To those possessed of breeding, learning handsome looks, who have no wisdom, neither discipline, you need not bow. But those who do have these two qualities, though lacking other virtues, you should revere. So, again, Geshe-la is just briefly commenting on the verse.

The first two lines are making reference to those people who, even though they might come from a noble family or a traditional family in a high society, they have power, they have money, or they might have education, you know, they have some powerful position in society and so forth. If such people who have all these worldly qualities but do not have wisdom and do not have any ethical discipline or any ethics. To such people, one does not need to show any reverence. One does not need to bow to them. One does not need to show any reverence to them.

And on the other hand, the last two lines of the verse are telling us that those who do have these two qualities, though lacking other virtues, you should revere. So again to those those people who do have wisdom and do have ethics ethical discipline, even though they might not have the good looks or they might not have money and power They might not have any skills or any learning just by merely having these two qualities. They are worth worthy of our reverence, of our offerings, of our respect. So, again, the commentary to the verse is basically saying what Geshe has already said. So, commentary to the first two lines of the verse is saying that those beings who come from a good lineage, those beings of lineage who have good looks, who have a good appearance, who have much learning, who are very intelligent and learned, but who lack the wisdom that realizes the ultimate, and they lack any training in ethical discipline, it is not necessary, it is not alright, then to revere such beings.

And Geshe lah is explaining, it is important, even though we are told that such things, we are told that these qualities that pertain to this life, good looks, money, power, and skills, and so forth, they are not worthy of reverence, of our reverence, of our respect and offerings and so forth. And Geshe-la was explaining, need to have a reason, we need to understand why. And the reason is because those things are, ultimately, they are meaningless. They are substanceless. They have no essence of themselves.

All these things that all these so called qualities that pertain to this one present alone. Ultimately, they are in the nature of suffering, and they are only going to bring us more suffering. On the other hand, by merely having these two other qualities, having wisdom, the wisdom realizing emptiness, and by having a good ethical discipline. Then again, even though one might lack all these other mundane worldly qualities, still by having these two qualities alone, one can read read oneself of of every fault, of every shortcoming, of every negativity, and one can accomplish every good quality. And in the long run, ultimately, one, dependence on these two qualities alone, one attains liberation and ultimately enlightenment.

So, as for the wisdom, in Tibetan we have only wisdom and ethics. The words only wisdom. So wisdom, we start with this phrase, is referring to the wisdom that realizes emptiness. And as for ethics, have different types of ethics, ethical discipline. We have the ethical discipline of individual liberation.

We have the ethical discipline of bodhisattvas, and we have the ethical tantric ethical discipline of the secret tantra. And in this context here Geshe-la explains because this teaching is a teaching that was being given to the king. So the ethical discipline that is being referred to exoterically is the ethical discipline of giving up the ten non-virtues. So based on this ethical discipline of giving up the ten non-virtuous actions, one attains better future rebirths. By maintaining this discipline, attains better and better rebirths, they always keep on getting better to the point that, again, coupled with the wisdom that realizes emptiness, one attains liberation.

And implicitly, a decision makes reference to all ethical disciplines, all the three sets of ethical disciplines. And then we have this commentary is followed by a little quote from Sakya Pandita’s Elegant Sayings. And there’s a two line verse, which is again very briefly saying, again, lineage, good looks, wealth, and so forth. Even though I might have all these, having no qualities, all this is very unimpressive. And Geshe-la was explaining, again, lineage, good looks, power, money, and so forth, all these without qualities.

And the qualities he is making reference to, again, wisdom and ethics. So, again, all these without wisdom and ethics becomes unimportant, very unimpressive. And then the commentary goes on after that verse, saying, on the other hand, whoever has these two qualities of wisdom and ethics, even though he or she might not have these other qualities of lineage, good looks, and so forth, that being is worthy, worthy of all our respects and our offerings, is a worthy object of our reverence and our offerings. That being then is because that being is endowed with pure holy qualities, pure qualities or holy qualities. And then we have a we are given to illustrate that we are given a quote from the life stories of the Buddha.

It’s two two two verses of four lines each. So the first verse is saying that if one does not train in any of the six perfections, even though that person might have lineage and good looks and a lot of learning, might be very intelligent and skilled, and it doesn’t matter how great, how powerful person may be, person may have like an extremely great power and might have a great, great fortune, still in the future lives there’s no such being, no being like this has ever attained any happiness. Is that making sense? Did that come out well? And the second the second verse is telling us on the other hand, that being who has who is of a lesser lineage, or who has all these mundane qualities, lineage looks wealth and learning, they are all inferior or lesser or bad, but even though of a lesser lineage, that being takes no pleasure in negativity.

And that being endowed with the superior generosity, ethical discipline and so on, just like at the time of, just like in the summertime, the river of waterfalls rains down, in the same way in future lives, the person’s being’s definite happiness will only increase. Okay? Geshe is explaining, so again, we’re being told to engage in the six perfections, to engage in ethical discipline and so on. And that’s what we have to do. And but still for us, it is still very difficult to accomplish those those things.

And but if we are to if we want to experience any any happiness, we have to accomplish the causes of this happiness. We have to engage in those in those activities then. But as as it is, as we are right now, we are overwhelmed and overpowered by the afflictions. And in this way, we accomplish, we engage in all sorts of negativities, we engage in the ten non-virtues, and we accomplish the causes of suffering instead of future suffering instead. Even though we want happiness, even though we want to accomplish the cause of happiness, as it is presently, we still keep on accumulating the cause of more suffering.

And then we move on to the next topic of the commentary, again, which is which is then to close the way, to close the doors close the doors to the eight worldly concerns. And we read the next verse, verse number twenty nine in this regard, which reads, you you who know the world take gain and loss or pleasure and pain or kind words and abuse or praise and blame. These eight mundane concerns, make them the same, and don’t disturb your mind. Don’t allow your mind to get disturbed. So, again, these instructions on how to remain even minded, the commentary was, again making reference to this Lord of the world.

Again, in the verse, you who know the world is a literal translation that’s making reference to you lord of the world because the decision was given to the king to a king at the time and so it’s making reference to to to his status as a king. So you king, again, when you four happinesses, which are pleasure, oh, sorry, a profit, pleasure, kind words and praise, these are the four mundane happinesses and this and this and the other four which are then loss, pain, abuse and blame. These are these mundane sufferings. Ings. Again, do not not allow yourself to be overpowered by this, do not allow your mind to be overpowered by this and become happy and unhappy because of these eight worldly concerns.

Instead, and instead, make make them the same and keep your mind. How can I say that? Level? Keep yourself level headed. Is that how we’re saying English?

Level headed? Equal. Even minded? Yes? Equal.

This one. This one. This one. Just saying, again, is a difficult teaching. We are being told, what we are being asked to do is not to allow ourselves to be happy when we make some profit, or unhappy when we lose something, to feel happy.

Not not feel happy. I’m pleased with you. I was using the word to like, not to to to to take to like or to take joy when we feel pleasure or to dislike and suffer when we feel pain. Again, to like kind words and to dislike abuse, again to like praise and to dislike blame. We are being asked asked to consider all these eight things as the same and not allow ourselves to be affected either one way or the other by any of these.

And if we can, if we are able to to be even minded, again, in relationship to these eight worldly concerns, Geshe-la was saying, then then we can experience real happiness, and can develop real good qualities. And we have a quote from the Bodhisattva’s Way of Life, which is saying again, however much profit, even if much profit comes one’s way, even if one becomes very famous, and hears a lot of praises, even if one has all these great collections of praises and profit and wealth and so forth. However much one might have of these things, they are of no significance in with regards to what we want. And Geshe-la wasn’t saying, and what we want, what we desire is liberation and enlightenment. And with regards to liberation and enlightenment, they are of no significance whatsoever.

What is of relevance and significance with regards to attaining liberation and enlightenment is wisdom and ethical discipline. So we need to keep our ethical discipline. We need to cultivate our understanding of of of wisdom, wisdom realizing emptiness, and so on. Any questions? I use the word exoterically.

I’m just experimenting with my English. That’s all. What I meant is, what Geshe was explaining is that when in the text, they used the word tsutrim, and tsutrim means ethics, or ethical discipline. And Geshe-la was just explaining that again, have this, generally speaking, have these three types of ethical discipline. But in this context here, in the context of this text, what is being overtly said, referred to, is the ethic of giving up the ten non-virtues.

And what is being implicitly meant is all types of ethical discipline, the three types of ethical discipline. That’s what I meant. So, exoterically, for the populace, for the masses, we’re talking about abandoning the ten non-virtues. But secretly, esoterically, we’re talking about all types of virtues. And that’s what I was playing with, but that’s my play with words.

It’s just it’s just Geshe-la just said, look, was making reference or the direct reference to giving up the ten non-virtues, and implicit reference to all types of ethical discipline of the ethical discipline of individual liberation, ethical discipline of bodhisattvas, and the ethical discipline of the secret mantra. That’s literally what Desha says. Okay? Is that okay? Any other questions?

Anyone else? So, Geshe-la was explaining, so for the ten non virtues, we have the three non virtues of body, physical non virtues of killing, stealing, sexual misconduct. Then we have the four non virtues of speech, of lying, slandering, divisive speech, no, no, lying, harsh speech, divisive speech, and gossip or idle chatter, and lastly, have the three non virtues of thought, is again covetousness, ill will, or harmful intent, and the wrong views, holding wrong views. And the abandonment the abandonment or the giving up of the ten non-virtues, of each one of the these ten non virtues amounts to what is referred to as the ten virtues. The ten virtues are each one the abandonment of each of the giving up of each of the non virtues.

So again, so we are asked then to practice, to train in the ten virtues, and from another perspective, again, to give up the ten non virtues. Basically, the same one thing. Even though there is a case, ourselves, we engage But we engage in a lot of these non virtues. As far as the three physical non virtues of killing, stealing, and sexual misconduct, again, can can think that, okay, we don’t actually do much of these three non virtues, but as for the non virtues of speech, for example, when it comes to the numbers of speech of lying, harsh speech, slandering, or divisive speech, and idle chatter or gossiping is a bit more difficult. We have a bit more of a hard time with those.

And then and then we have the the three non-virtues of thought. And we have so then we have covetousness, ill will, and wrong views. And Geshe-la wasn’t saying that take covetousness again, which is the mind that sees what whatever good others might have or might be experiencing, and then wishes wishes that good, a good thing or that good experience. And that’s already a difficult one for us. It’s very difficult to get rid of, to give up that covetousness.

And then also, another one which is difficult is harmful intent, is the mind that wishes harm on others. Again, difficult to get rid of, difficult to give it up. And then as for wrong views, that’s I guess, I wasn’t saying that might not be so much of a problem for most of us, at least. And, again, wrong views as far as holding those really bad views, if I was saying, which is not believing in the existence of the Three Jewels, not believing in the existence of actions and their results, cause and effect, law of karma, not believing in past and future lives. That’s for most of us, and there shouldn’t be much of a trouble.

So, basically, then these roughly and briefly, these are the ten non virtues. Giving up each one of them is amongst the ten virtues. Yeah. All right. I still complain, does it mean that I don’t Happens to you?

Yeah. If something bad happened to me, but I still complain. According to the rule of thumb, it should have done something in the past for me to experience that. But if I So it is not it is not it is not that you you have the wrong view because you do believe in actions and their results, you do believe in the law of karma. So that we have no doubt about it.

Karma-wise, one does believe in the law of karma. Everybody knows that. But still, when when and I was saying, I guess that was explain so I was explaining that, and I was explaining to Geshe, yeah, we still we do believe we believe in that, but still when bad things happen, we go on and we blame other people instead of stopping to think about, oh, this is my karma. We will go on to complain and blame and all that. But that is that doesn’t mean that you don’t believe in the law of karma.

That is just, you know, a habitual reaction that we have. Now, There are those people who do not believe in the law of karma at all. And all that they can do, all that they are able to do at any given moment when they find a hardship is to blame and complain. We do that sometimes, and other times we we we do actually think sometimes, you know, this is my karma. Geshe-la was saying, so, you know, when we’re talking about actions and the results, the law of karma, or cause and effect, then again, when something bad happens, then we ought to contemplate if we believe in the actions and results, if we have faith in it and all that, we ought to contemplate again, this has happened to me because of actions that I have performed in the past, because of causes that I have accumulated in the past.

Another way that one can think about it is if there are other people involved, guess something is done to me and then I can think, okay, that person is nothing but the condition for the fruition of those causes that I have accumulated. So I have accumulated the causes and the environment, the situation, the circumstances, and the beings who are involved in the situation are merely conditions for that. But still, you know, I have accumulated the causes. It’s still my responsibility. Now, there are those there are those people who even though they might have heard or read or attended teachings on actions and results, but when something bad happens to them, all that they can do is blame and complain about others, and do not actually reflect on actually the results, then all their talk, such people’s talk about actions and the results is mere lip service.

It’s empty words. They can talk about it, but they do not have it in their hearts, in their minds. Is just Geshe-la is expanding a little bit more. So one will not one of the laws, one of the fundamental understandings of action and the results is that one will not meet with the results of actions that one has not performed. So on the other hand, we have again one will certainly experience the results, one is certain to experience the results of actions that one has performed.

So again, whatever it is that we are experiencing, good or bad, pleasant or unpleasant, you know, if it is, you know, some discomfort in the body, or some relief from that discomfort, they are all the results, again the discomfort is the result of non virtuous, negative actions that we have performed in the past, and the comfort, you know, the breeze that relieves us from the heat, the excessive heat and so forth, they are the results of virtuous actions. So whatever pleasant and painful experience that we are experiencing, they are the results of actions that we have performed in the past. So, happens is, if one reacts in this way with anger and so forth, one accumulates new causes of suffering. It’s not that one is perpetuating the same suffering that one is experiencing, but one is accumulating new causes of suffering. One has anger, one has harmful intent, and one acts upon that.

One is accumulating new causes of new suffering in the future. If one is acting the way that you were saying, with anger and so forth, then one is accumulating more cause of suffering, new cause of suffering. When a difficult or unpleasant event occurs, or circumstance arises, again, we have to contemplate that we have performed actions that are the causes of that, and whoever or whatever is involved in the arrival of that unpleasant circumstance or painful suffering or whatever it may be, They are just conditions for the arise or for the fruition of that of those causes that I have accomplished. One has to understand that the people who are involved in that, they are not doing it out of their own will. They are overpowered by afflictions or anger or whatever it may be.

And so we have no reason really to get angry with those with the circumstances, the event itself, because we have performed the actions, we have committed the actions ourselves in the past. We have no reason to be angry with the people or whatever beings are involved because they are not doing that of their own accord. They are sick with the afflictions. Ultimately, one has to realize that all of this has arisen because of the afflictions that are in my mental continuum, the afflictions that are in the mental continuum of others. So ultimately, the whole problem, the source, the origin of the whole problem boils down to the afflictions themselves.

And that’s what we have to address. Okay. Is that alright?

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