Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. Drawing on live news of Tibetan protest fasts in Delhi, Geshe Pema Tsering uses this five-hour commentary on verses two to six of the Eight Verses for Training the Mind to argue that anger at external enemies misses the point entirely. He works through the Dalai Lama’s insect illustration for dismantling pride, specific antidotes for each affliction (mindfulness of bodily impurity for attachment, loving-kindness for anger, the twelve links of dependent arising for pride), and the principle of accepting defeat while offering victory to others. A bodhisattva story about killing one man to save hundreds prompts a pointed audience question about whether that logic justifies violence against Chinese officials — Geshe-la’s answer is unambiguous. The session closes with Q&A on the risk of discouragement when examining one’s faults, apparent contradictions between verses, and the three stages of wisdom — studying, reflection, and meditation — required to realise emptiness directly.
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File: 12 2007 08 05Geshe Pema Tsering Eight Verses for Training the Mind 05-08-07.mp3
UUID: dfa11c35-f4bc-4064-97c3-3131b204cde3
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: Sunday Geshela Teaching (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Date: 2007-08-05
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 306.0 minutes
Words: ~15,239
So is stretching us to give rise to a good motivation, and then then it with a strong determination to attain enlightenment. With the with the intention of with strong intention, determination to bring also to the state of enlightenment, free from every suffering and doubt of every happiness, then one generation wish that may I attain enlightenment myself. So then I was just asking, Geshe, to to go back a bit for those who haven’t been here yesterday. So we are studying we’re we’re going through the the eight verses of mind training. And we started yesterday with the first and the second, and we were in the middle of the commentary to the second verse.
And I just asked to get you to to briefly explain the second verse, what it is all about. So, Geshe-la was repeating the the second verse, for those who have the text, and for those who doesn’t have, it reads like this. Whenever I am in the company of others I will train to look upon myself as the lowest of all amongst all and from the depths of my heart cherish others as supreme and Geshe-la wasn’t saying it’s just you know we subdue it’s about subduing our pride putting getting rid of our pride and then cherishing others. And then we shall went to read, to go through the first part of the second paragraph of the commentary. Sorry.
The third part which is mentioning that for those erroneous reasons, for those mistaken reasons, the basis of those mistaken reasons, we pride and the mind that that things of oneself as superior to others, they they arise. And so then Geshe-la was in saying briefly briefly, Geshe-la mentioned with respect to the mind that sees oneself as superior to others. Going back to to the first sentence of that commentary Geshe-la was saying: is the mind that forsakes others, the mind that looks down upon others and so forth. And then Geshe-la followed on. The antidote that that which opposes opposes that is the mind is seeing the qualities of others, the good qualities of others and seeing the shortcomings and the faults of oneself.
So that’s which confronts or fights with that with that with that other mind is this is this attitude that sees the qualities, the good qualities in others and the faults in oneself. So then so then, Karisa, this this commentary is a commentary by the Dalai Lama, and then the Dalai Lama is in giving an illustration where where the Dalai Lama is pointing out to to a a b or some some b’s. Is b. Right? It’s b.
Right? Like a fly. I’m not sure. But bees or or flies. Anyway, some a flying insect, which which is which makes a a noise.
Noise. From one perspective, the Dalai Lama is saying is telling us from one perspective, know, if one when one thinks about it, Dalai Lama is talking about himself, he says, you know, I I am a human being and I am a monk. So from this perspective, you know, this this little insect, this little bee or this little fly, you know, I’m certainly much more important than it is. But from another perspective, on the other hand, we are told if if if we think again then that’s the fact that insect is obscured and is overpowered by obscurations and has not practiced Dharma, so the fact that that insect is in such a poor situation. It’s no surprise at all.
So then and then not only that, we are told, but if this this insect, again, this is fire or bee, again, for for many reasons, if one think it in many different ways, and one will see one will see that, as Geshe-la was explaining, that insect cannot cannot accumulate any great nonvirtue. And then and then we on the other hand, on the other hand, is saying, I am a I am a human being, and I have a you know, with full with with full fully capable, and I can think in many different ways. I have I have the ability to think in many different ways. I have I have this in my own my own abilities and capabilities. If they are used, it is possible for me to use all of them, to to use all these abilities and so forth in a in a mistaken, in erroneous fashion.
Does that make any sense? I Lose. Lose. So Geshe-la is then explaining. So then, you know, the insect is is in this very poor situation.
It’s it’s very poor. It’s it’s lives in this very poor condition. It has no qualities and no capabilities. And on the other hand, the Dalai Lama in in this illustration, Dalai Lama is referring to himself and saying, you know, he has all these qualities and all these capacities, all these capabilities. Geshe-la wasn’t saying, a human being who has all these qualities and capabilities then should then has responsibility then to apply it and then to benefit others.
If one Austin Dow with all these quiasing capabilities does not use it properly, does not apply it properly, then one is not any better than the insect itself than the eat insect itself. So and that’s And that’s all all for the sake this reason is given all for the sake of, how to say, subduing pride. And then and then, you know, actually, in the commentary itself, the Dalai Lama just says just that. You know, if if I am a practitioner, I am a monk, and I am a human being, so I have all these these capacities, all these capabilities. And if I if I use them in a in a wrong way, if I use them wrongly then then I’m I’m how to say extremely in fear to the then how to say in relation to the to the insect, to the fly or the bee.
I’m much more inferior than the fly and the bee. Then, Geshe-la was saying and then briefly, the text was saying, so if we if we’re thinking in this way, then we we benefit. We’ll benefit by thinking this way. And then Geshe-la wasn’t saying we we we all do that. We all think okay I have have this good class, have education, have going to school, I have all these capacities and we all think we’re all proud of whatever it is that we know, Geshe-la says, but it doesn’t matter.
Is if you apply what you know for the sake of benefiting oneself and others and not harming others and if you’re not doing that then you are in a, how to say, more dire situation than the insect is. And then and then the is explaining something if if still, it is for the sake of applying what was you know for the sake of applying in order to apply this antidote to pride then we decided one must look down on oneself right but it’s not to say that when somebody comes with an abusive behavior we should we should how to say? What’s the proper word for that? Was submit to them? Not cover, but, you know, just just passively submit to them.
What’s the So not be like Hold oneself lower. Hold oneself oneself lower. So then and then we we are told further that we to those to such people, we should answer back. We should and then get yourselves plans. We should engage in ways to avoid the harm.
So then and then and then we are told so then, again, we should we should answer back to this abusive abusive people. Again, so we should engage in ways to avoid this harm. And the way that we should do that is with regard for that person and with respect for that person, we should then respond to the abuse in this way. So then Geshe-la wasn’t saying that situation, Karisa, when when we find ourselves in in in a difficult situation like this, we we first we should meditate on patience you know give rise to patience and then when we have then in this way subdued our anger a bit then we can we can start how to say, communicating with that person, talking to that person, answering back. And then that will make we’ll be able to to make that person think about what she or he is doing.
So then Geshe-la was we have to we arrive at the third verse of the the eight verses and then the third verse is saying so then may I evaluate all my all actions in my mind as soon as an affliction arises and endangering myself and others may I firmly face and avert it and then Geshe-la was explaining just the first line and the beginning of the second line of the verse we’re saying again so at any time when we are going to engage in any activity physical or verbal then we should look we should investigate our own minds and and see what’s see what’s going on there. And then having investigated, having looked at one’s mind, then one will know if making reference to the second clause of the of the second line of the verse we will know if an affliction conception or emotion has a reason or not and that that second clause is saying so then as soon as an affliction arises so by looking at our mind we will know if what’s coming up is an affliction or not. So then and and we are told that because if an afflictive emotion arises then whatever action whatever activity we engage in that will go wrong and then we will harm oneself or harm others and you know the whole situation will go wrong.
It will go wrong because that mind an afflictive emotion or affective conception in itself is a wrong is a wrong mind in itself and that leads everything that follows it to be wrong also then in the third the third line of the verse is just saying again that by the by the force of an affective emotional conception, then, you you know, harm will will come to to how harm will will ensue to people. And then the last line where the verse is saying, and we should immediately we should immediately face and stop it. And Geshe-la wasn’t saying we shouldn’t, you know, allow it, how to say, stay stay in our minds for even for even a moment. We should immediately arrest that active emotional conception. I wasn’t saying that’s very difficult because we for ourselves, this is this is very difficult because we do not know what is an effective emotional conception from what is not and so we hold how to say so when they we we keep on they keep on arising.
We keep on I guess I wasn’t saying giving the illustration of attachment. We hold it to be a correct mind. To be to be a right mind. And then we we hold on to it. And then instead, it it just we get more familiar with it.
It it just grows stronger in ourselves and the same with with other afflictive emotions. And, Geshe-la was saying, we we cannot see that for ourselves. If we take, for example Geshe-la was giving you the search, take for example a car. We see a car, nice car and we think oh you know I must have this car and when we start thinking this way and we are already under the power of attachment. And when then we start striving in ways to to acquire that car, then, you know, we we already gone.
And we already we already slaves of that attachment. And then and then is like saying pointing out to what what the Dalai Lama has has said in the text. You know, we we will be already in in this situation, we’ll be already in a worse situation than the that insect. The same goes for hatred, for anger so then when we get angry then we start you know saying bad things and we want to harm and hurt the other person and then so we how to say and we still we think we think that we are by hurting other and acting this way we are benefiting. We still hold on hold it to be this way, So then both these minds of anger and attachment, one, we hold them to be beneficial for us.
We think that they’re they’re we are going to benefit. We’re going to profit benefit from them. We never think that they are actually harmful. We all hold them to be to be beneficial, but in actuality, they they are harmful to us. Anger and attachment.
And Geshe-la wasn’t saying by the by the force, by the power of these these minds. Geshe-la was talking about attachment first. Karisa, leave leave alone let alone future lives. You know? Don’t don’t even no no need to mention future lives.
In this life alone, one will one will experience great, you know, suffering out of great trouble out of this because of attachment and also because and, again, also because of anger. And then Geshe-la was the same. We and we should engage in ways to for those minds not to come about and Geshe-la was saying again giving the illustration of attachment when we when the illustration of the car and we think of the car and say oh I need to have this car I need this car and when this arises we should acknowledge there to be attachment we see you know this is attachment and this is not good it’s going to be bad for me and so forth. In this way, we should stop that attachment and get rid of that attachment. And then, again, the same for for anger.
When anger arises, then, again, one one has to realize that you know that the person is not and then that person that person And then that person is is not that person is just like myself. That person is wishes only for happiness, does not wish for any suffering. And just like myself. And not only that, that person has is that being has been is greatly kind to me, and in this way, we stop anger. Geshe-la wasn’t saying.
If by any means we cannot we are unable to to arrest these minds of attachment and anger, then if we’re not able to stop them, and then at least we should turn our minds away from them and think of think of something else. And then I was was going through the commentary, which is saying the commentary to that to that verse, which is saying again, when we are trying to to put into practice, when we’re trying to practice this this benevolent mind which is intent on benefiting others, if we leave the afflictive emotions that arise by themselves, if we leave it if we leave them, yeah, by themselves for themselves, then they will they will create problems for us. We are told. In in in in in commentary, we’re giving an example. So, for anger hatred and pride and so forth they are all obstacles to to increasing or incrementing these minds which which are intent on benefiting others, this intention of this this mind which is intent on benefiting others And so then we should immediately we should as quickly how to say?
Not we should not allow them to be we should not leave them by themselves, and we should as quickly as possible apply the antidotes relying on the antidotes. We should quickly get rid of them. Yeah. And then and then we we are told we are told that just like just like the is making reference to what he has said before, and he’s saying, you know, this anger and and pride and so forth, they are the real enemy. And they are it is it is with them that we should wage war.
You know, the the the place for for war is not outside of us. It’s it’s only with with these afflictions. And then saying so this this is the case, and all these enemies these real enemies they are these afflictive emotions so then I guess I wasn’t saying attachment anger pride afflictive doubts and ignorance and all of them all of them come out of ignorance. Ignorance is the root of all of them. Geshe-la was saying so then they know the main enemy, you know, the the the real enemy, the main enemy is that is that ignorance.
Geshe-la was saying and this is this ignorance it is inside of us it is inside the mental continuum of human beings it is not outside and Geshe-la was going give you an illustration then speaking in relation to himself Geshe-la was saying you know the enemy I say what I say or who I say is my enemy is the people who have you know how to say taken my country and expelled us from our country and I’d say hurt my family and so forth. The people who has done who have done that, they said they are my enemy are the are the Chinese. But I say the Chinese are are my enemies. And Geshe-la wasn’t saying that. So I say Geshe-la was speaking for himself.
And I’m going speak in the first person. Geshe-la didn’t say so. Then I say that the Chinese are the enemy, but not the Chinese people. I say, you know, the the Chinese say the the leaders the the the government they are they are my enemy So then Geshe-la was saying, for example, that he heard in in the in the news today, so he said he heard in the Tibetan news, in in Delhi there are these fourteen tibetans who were doing a fasting protest which is a fasting they have been going for this fasting for already twenty nine days and there was also a protest how do you call that a raid no how do say it’s not it’s not a riot the riot is violence is a demonstration I guess many many thousands of people came from from different places a rally that’s that’s what it was A rally. Many thousands of of Tibetans came from, you know, Bhutan, Nepal, and South India and so forth.
And Geshe-la says it was about four thousand, five thousand people doing this this rally against China. And then in the eighth in in the eighth of which is August rather, isn’t it? So in the eighth of August, Geshe-la says in the news, they were saying that there will be about twenty five thousand people for this this rally rally to in in in Delhi in New Delhi. And Geshe-la says they are coming. They’re they’re all coming to Delhi now.
Story. Also, the So then a a few weeks ago, Geshe-la says there was also this this this big celebration in in Litang in in Kham in the province in the state where where from where Geshe-la came and there’s this this city of Litan and there’s this great celebration with horse riders and so forth. There was this great gathering of Tibetans and one Tibetan came to the stage to speak in the microphone and was starting to talk about the Dalai Lama needs to be able to come to Tibet and Tibetans need freedom and so forth. And then he started saying, know what? The Dalai Lama needs to come.
The the Bataan needs freedom. Now don’t we? And then everybody was like, yes. We need freedom. We need the Dalai Lama.
And and then after that, you know, he was arrested. So then he was arrested because of that loss. So he’s talking about, you know, his computer, he has all these these different radio stations, you know, the voice of America and the voice and with with Tibetan radio stations and everything, and and he got all these Oh. Lose. And then so then all these news came in this all these stations.
And all that is is about Chinese control And then all these all angry with the Chinese. Was very difficult to for any benefit to come out of it. Is insane. And then just like the the Dalai Lama was making reference to the text, the Dalai Lama was saying, we do not have an there is no external enemy. There’s no real external enemy.
The real enemy is is inside of us. It’s the the enmity, the attachment, the anger, and so forth. And so then, Geshe-la is pointing out the real enemy is then the ignorance, the attachment, and and the aversion inside the mental continuum of those Chinese. That’s the real enemy. And and then Geshe-la wasn’t saying, just like just like the lama said in the text itself, Geshe-la was saying, so how is it that we have to, how do say, fight this enemy?
And Geshe-la wasn’t saying, we have to make a reference to the text. Have to to face and avert it. We have to, you know, directly face and avert it. And how we do that? We do that with respect and with regard for them.
Okay? So then Geshe lah isn’t saying that Geshe lah wasn’t saying before, Geshe lah said, you know, my enemies are the Chinese. But then, in fact, you know, my enemies are not the Chinese. My enemy is is not the the Chinese government. The enemy is the ignorance is in the mental continuum of of of the governors or the leaders.
And that’s and that’s what I have to fight. That’s what I have to get rid of. So then, as I was saying, so then we have to we have to get rid of that of that ignorance. And the way to get rid of that ignorance is to stop it from arising. We have to realize to stop it from arising, we have to realize that it is an erroneous mind, a mistaken mind and the way to do that is to realize emptiness is to realize how do you say?
So what we need to do is to realize emptiness. So to realize that it is an erroneous mind, we have to realize emptiness, and then we have to and we have to attain enlightenment. Geshe-la was saying, and when when when one has attained enlightenment, then one will be able then to get rid of that ignorance in the mental continuum of of those of those leaders. Because previously previously, I I mentioned quickly and so Geshe-la was saying, we’re to get rid of the ignorance in the mental continuum of the leaders, then one has to realize emptiness and so forth. And I was saying so I I just make a make made a reference to the Geshe and brought a point, something up to the Geshe.
Geshe was saying, we cannot get rid of of of the ignorance in the mental continuum of the leaders. We can get rid of our own ignorance and attain enlightenment. If they want to get they they themselves alone can get rid of their own ignorance. But Geshe-la says not is then saying, so when we attain enlightenment, then we can get rid of of that ignorance in the in the middle continuum of them because then we will know exactly what they need. How do you say that?
Exactly what they need exactly what what teaching they need. We will know exactly what what will benefit them. And in this way, we can how do you say? So Geshe-la was saying that we will we will be able to get rid of that ignorance in the mental continuum of those of those leaders because we will know exactly what what what they are thinking. We will we know all their their thoughts, and we’ll know we will know exactly what to teach what to teach them.
And Geshe-la wasn’t saying even before what Geshe said. Now Geshe says, we have to think in a very long run. There’s there’s no way to handle this, to tackle this this problem otherwise. We have to think in a very long run-in terms of enlightenment. And then Geshe-la wasn’t saying so then No.
No. Truth. And this now our our getting angry with others, this this anger that we have for others now, it’s all delusion. It’s all distortion. Saying so we we we experience harm and we experience we experience suffering, we experience and we experience happiness.
And all these all the the the benefit and happiness that we experience comes due to the comes in dependence on the correct minds, the correct thinking that we have and then all this of this harm all this hurt comes from the the mistake in the incorrect incorrect minds. So it doesn’t come from from outside. It comes from inside. Oh, That this is your anxiety twice. What what time?
Twelve forty? Twelve And then, I I was just following following on a little bit in the commentary saying again, there is nobody whatsoever who does not experience anger, there’s nobody who doesn’t get angry. But can all can all we also all know that we are all able to understand that anger cannot give us happiness it cannot give us any happiness. So there is there is nobody who has, how do you say, ever been happy, having given rise to anger. Okay?
The the illustrations follow saying that there is no doctor who then prescribes, prescribes anger for his or her patience saying that you need anger, you need to get angry. There’s no doctor who prescribes that and also there is nobody whoever says there’s nobody who there’s no one no one ever says that you know by getting angry you you will be happy. You get happy. And then is explaining something after he he went through the comment the commentaries and saying on that basis, then it is it is unsuitable for us to allow any opportunity for afflictive emotions to arise, such afflictive emotions to arise within us because there is nobody does not cherishes, who does not think one’s life to be very precious. Also again if we were to allow ourselves to come under the power of anger you know that it might even be the case that know we might come before wish to the wish to to commit suicide or to kill oneself might come up.
And then Geshe-la to death, Geshe-la says, you know, there are all those people in Tibet, in in Delhi now who fasting, who are doing this, you know, doing this this harm to themselves and all all out of anger. So then we we all think that the again in the illustration of those Tibetans who are fasting we all we all think out of anger we you know we we all think that you know they are very brave they’re very courageous people You know, they’re very good people because they because they are very brave and they’re very courageous. But, you know, it is not it is not courage what they have. What they have is anger. Okay?
And then the next the next part of the commentary, Yuslav was explaining, is telling us that, again, when there there are all sorts of of afflictive emotions we must recognize we must know all sorts of understand that there are all sorts of afflictive emotions and then they are and even even in the case of a very subtle if if if the in the case of of a of very subtle afflictive emotion or conception arising and again we shouldn’t we shouldn’t give in to to such thoughts that that, such as, you know, or just such a it’s just a little a fit of emotion. It’s alright. It doesn’t matter. And, Inshallah was saying because later on, they they will increase. If we if we leave them by themselves, they will increase.
They will grow stronger. And then for the sake of illustration, we are giving the the illustration of in the beginning in the house, in the beginning, there was just a little fire, but, eventually, with with with time that the fire grew stronger and loose. And and So then and because of that, we understand how how we have to get rid even if this is is more afflictive emotion, this this small afflictions. I guess I wasn’t saying even because it is easier to get rid of the smaller ones. So then this this this Tibetan saying, right, which which uses some how do you call that some Tibetan sounds which so if one one says if one says it doesn’t doesn’t matter.
If one says if one says it doesn’t matter and leave it at that then later one will one will say because of the pain and the hurt. Means when it hurts they say ouch. So, yeah, if you say, ouch it is, and then later you will say. And then because of because of because of these reasons, then we should we should, how to say, apply the antidotes which we bring forth the thoughts that we will pose, those afflictive emotions as soon as soon as they start to arise in our mental continuum. And we should we should definitely then we should definitely then apply this reasonings that that oppose we should definitely exercise our thinking of of the reasons which oppose which oppose them, which oppose the suffragative emotion.
And then in the illustration that we are given in the case of attachment when attachment starts to arise and we should we should start thinking of of this the suffering that it that it brings and then guess I wasn’t saying the case of the car for example when when start attachment starts to arise for the car then we should think oh I know it’s that that car is is is is is not really good. That car is is not reliable. It’s not permanent. That car is is is not beyond suffering. It’s in the nature of suffering, loose.
And also or also we can also we are told we can also practice the the close placement of mindfulness of body and Geshe-la wasn’t saying we we and we are told to do that we are told to apply the close placement of mindfulness of body you know mindfulness of body and Geshe-la wasn’t just giving you a searching for example when we have attachment for somebody else’s partner woman or or man and we we have a mindfulness of the body which which reflects then on on impurities on how the body is is dirty, the elements of the body are dirty and so forth. And this way, we can avert this sort of attachment. So let’s give you an illustration of if, for example, there were it was the case that you know my partner and a hundred other women would arrive and out of attachment I would notice only my partner and you know Lily. Her name is Lily. And and so I would I would notice only Lily, and I wouldn’t I wouldn’t think of any other woman around.
So Lily. I wasn’t saying so I would I would notice only Lily. I would I would see only Lily, and and I wouldn’t notice any other woman. I guess I wasn’t saying but and but there’s no real there’s no substantial reason for that because there are amongst all those those women there are many who are better than Lily and also there are many who are worse than Lily but you know but I wouldn’t I wouldn’t notice any of that because because I will be overpowered by my own attachment towards Lily, which is which is an erroneous mind. It’s an erroneous it’s a miss it’s an erroneous mind, and I wouldn’t be able to see what it is.
And then and that’s why we are told then if we think in this way then we will all be able to understand that if we think about we’re all going to be able to understand that and that’s why we are told to practice this close placement of mindfulness of body because then we will see that in the case of the illustration that Geshe was given Lily’s body and all the other woman’s body they are no different they are all the same in this case And and so then, Geshe-la says, then, you know, it’s it’s again, with respect to to to them being all the same, you know, she she has this flesh and blood just like anybody else. And then just she has the skin who covers all that. So we so we don’t see we don’t see how dirty, these elements are. And so then it’s all it’s all basically the same. They’re all basically the same.
And then also so then the Dalai Lama was saying so we should apply the close placements of mindfulness of body or also we could apply how to say the close placement of mindfulness or feelings and, again, realizing that the feelings, you know, of pain or suffering or or pleasure and happiness and these feelings, they are all the same. And then also in the in the case of in the case of anger, then we we we must meditate on on loving kindness. Anger shall explain because loving kindness directly opposes anger. Also in the case when when pride arises then we we think we meditate on the twelve links of dependent the twelve links of interdependent origination or dependent arising. And so then again, the case of pride, then we we meditate on on the twelve links of the dependent arising which Geshe-la says so then there’s the the three propelling causes the three completing causes and six results and the you know Geshe-la says that much to be said about the twelve links but briefly it’s just that and six results and Geshe-la says by meditating on that one realizes how much how little one knows how little understanding one has, and and then and then, you know, one of our pride in this way.
So then the is because I was was was giving. So then the the the first of the twelve links of the pendant arising, the first three propelling causes are the the dependent arising which is tender. Dependent arising which is ignorance, dependent arising, which is discrimination. No. Compositional factor.
Sorry. Which is composition factor. And the the dependent arising, which is consciousness, those are the first three propelling causes. And then the the the three completing causes, which will be KARSA dependent arising with the dependent arising of grasping, dependent arising of craving grasping and existence or existence or becoming existence yeah so craving grasping and existence which will be the other three completing causes.
Completing. Right? And then then the the six results, which will be the dependent arising. How how do you say the dependent arising, which is name and form? Is that how we would say?
Dependent arising of name and form? Is. Dependent arising which is name and form. Dependent arising which is sorry. Name and form.
And then the dependent arising which is which are the six sense spheres, dependent arising which is contact, the dependent arising which is feelings, the dependent arising which is birth, the dependent arising which is birth and and then the dependent arising which is aging, sickness, death. I need your help with these three. The the comes let’s say, this What’s the elements? The eighteen elements. Also, can it’s the elements, isn’t it?
Constituents or con spheres? The eight the eighteen spheres. Yeah. The eighteen constituents. Yes.
Or the eighteen constituents. Constituents. And one can also reflect on the eighteen constituents. We think thinking about all these then we can avert pride because then when we realize how much one does not know and when we know how much how little qualities one has and then one can avert pride in this way And then and then the ultimate, how to say, antidote for this minds is the mind that realize is the wisdom that realizes emptiness and then and then we are just told briefly that in this teaching, then the last the last verse refers to this to to this wisdom.. Oh.
Yeah. So then it’s it’s twenty minutes to one now, and we stop the teaching here today. It’s okay? We have to have lunch.. What time is it, the G in the afternoon?
There you are. One thirty? So then I have another teaching we’ll proceed from where we stop here today one thirty today okay I I think so. Yes. Yeah.
I checked the told them. Think they’re on the right. Yeah. You’re done. Proceeding with the commentary and then saying we are being told that it is then very important that those those times when the emotions are are arising, when when they are about to arise, it’s very important than to rely was relying on antidotes, applying antidotes to to stop them from arising..
So then and then we are told if if if we are not able to avert if we’re not able to avert to to avert those those afflictive emotions, then at at the very least, we should, how to say, drive our our minds away from it. And then we are given as an illustration. Are given, for example, we should we should go out and for a walk or or or something like that. And we should we should, how to say, just turn our minds away from it. Take our minds away from it.
So so then we are told And then next, we are told that if we if we didn’t allow those afflictive emotions to stay, then, eventually, they will they will grow stronger and will eventually become come under the power of these afflictive emotions, and at last, will be their servants, their slaves. So then and then so then at at that time when we are overpowered and when we’re coming to the power of the suffritive emotions, then not only at that time we we will be made unhappy but also in the future we will experience how to say we’ll be made to experience In in the future loss. We in the future, also, we’ll experience suffering that we have, how do say, that will come as a result of of having accumulated this this physical and verbal karma or actions. And then and then we’re giving us an illustration of that. For example, in the basis on the basis of anger, then one will engage in a slanderous, you know, harsh harsh speech.
And then, ultimately, one also and lastly, one will experience when we how to say, when engaging in in in in rough behavior also harsh conduct and in this way one will how to say will engage in actions or of which are harmful towards others. Yes. And then out of these actions of this karma then, on the basis of of of that mind then in the future then, how to say one one would then plant and have the the imprints for experiencing suffering in the future, be made to experience suffering in the future. And then we are given we are given a quote. No.
Really. Really. And then we’re given a quote from the sutras, which says, if if you want to know what you have done before, then look at your body now. And if you want to know what is going to come come up in the future, then look at your mind now. Look at the state of your mind now.
And so then, Geshe-la explains the meaning of that. So, again, if we don’t know what you have done before previously, then you look at your body unless I wasn’t explaining something. Now we have this this precious human body, and that is due to the fact that we have, as they perform virtues in the past. And and, again, in the future and if you want to know what’s going to come up in the future then you look at your mind. I guess I wasn’t saying something if now in your mind what is coming up is attachment aversion pride and so forth then in the future you’re going to experience the sufferings of of lower rebirth or or the miserable rebirth.
And then if on the other hand, you are what’s coming up is is virtue, then in in the future, we’re going to experience a happy rebirth, a high rebirth loss. So then in in in how to say, following this this quote then we are told again this this this body that we have and the circumstances that we experience again they all come against I wasn’t saying so then we have this body this precious human body we have from accumulating virgin we have all sorts of experience you know good and bad from different actions that we have accumulated and Geshe-la wasn’t saying so then all this comes in dependence on arises in dependence on on on karma that we have or actions that we have accumulated previously. And then and then we are told that in the in the future, our happiness and our suffering is is in our hands. It is up to us it is up to us what what we are going to do. If I was an expense, so if we engage in So then if we engage in in, how do say, non virtues, and then, again, we experience we’ll experience suffering.
And then if we have proper conduct and engage in virtue, then we’ll experience happiness in the future. And then this is this is the way that that how to say the teachings on cause and effect cause and result on actions and the results which which are explained in the scriptures this is the way that that uh-uh the actions and the results goes. So then, you know, the the results depends what what we experience as as a result depends on the actions that we have accumulated previously. So then we do and then we are told we do not wish. We wish for happiness, and we do not wish for any suffering.
And then happiness arises out of virtuous actions, and suffering arises out of non virtuous actions. So then we we then have to abandon actions, give up actions, and we must engage in virtue. And then and then we are told and then we are told that, you know, in in our practice, there will be there there are days, maybe there there will be days, and Geshe-la wasn’t saying that maybe there will be days, maybe there will be months or years when we cannot abandon, give up non virtue, and then accomplish a virtue. And so So there will be there will be days there’ll be some days when we won’t be able to we won’t be able to abandon virtue, and and we and we won’t be able to fully accomplish because abandon on virtue and fully accomplish virtue. And then but if we we are told if we practice in stages, you know, step by step, we are told and and we get familiarized with it, then, eventually, we will be able to accomplish more virtues and and, how do say, not engage engage less and less in in non-virtues.
And then we we we start with the next verse, which is saying is when I see beings of a wicked nature then who oppressed or overwhelmed by wrongdoing and pain oppressed by negativities and afflictions may I hold these rare ones dear as if I had found a precious treasure. And Geshe was then saying, first, with respect to the second half of that of that verse, so then when when we when a precious treasure is something which is very difficult to find. And when but when we meet with something like that, we’ll become very happy. And that’s that’s the feeling that we have to cultivate with regards to those to those people, which in the in the Tibetan, at first, la took the Tibetan of the first sentence, which is usually translated as beings of wicked nature or you you natured people. And Geshe-la was referring to to beings who are tormented by suffering, greatly tormented by suffering.
So we should when we meet with such beings, we should be as happy as if we had found a precious a precious treasure and then work in ways to alleviate, to clear away that suffering. And Geshe-la was saying, now it’s very difficult for us to to act in this way now, isn’t it? Geshe-la says if when others are experiencing suffering we do not care. Do not give any we’re not concerned with it. But when we ourselves just a little bit of suffering we get all overwhelmed by it.
All, how to say, onto it immediately. But when others are experiencing much suffering then we don’t care. Loved ones, maybe our parents, our friends, our partners, when they are experiencing suffering, then we are a little bit concerned with them. And that’s, that’s due to attachment, to the attachment that we have. And, yes, I wasn’t saying so then when we when somebody who is poor or or, you know, relatively not famous or anything like that, guess I wasn’t making reference to himself, using himself as an example.
If somebody like like myself, you know, poor and and without power, would would be would fall ill. And then, you know, people wouldn’t people wouldn’t care. People would pass by and maybe say, you know, oh, what a pity, and just keep on keep on going you know just they say what a pity just you know but it’s just a lip service and on the other hand if somebody famous and powerful false ill and everybody’s concerned Everybody’s worried about that person. And and, you know, and all for and we do act like this all for a very bad reason, And Geshe-la wasn’t saying that and we should we should when we meet with that poor person who is ill and we should be happy as if we had found the treasure trove. And this asks us because that wish we have for that person to be free from that suffering that makes for real compassion and the wish that we have for that person to be endowed with happiness that makes for real loving kindness and that’s why they’re very important in the question.
On the other hand, the same wish that we have with respect when we’re trying to help that other powerful or rich person then what you know all these minds, they come all mixed up with with attachment. In relation to that powerful rich person, then there’s always our wanting to help that person always comes mixed with attachment and hopes I guess I was just saying you know hopes that we might gain some profit future, that we might gain something from from that person in the future. So then because because it kind of mixed up in this way, then it is not, you know, real fully characterized compassion and fully characterized loving kindness that we have for that person. But on the other hand, that those those wishes that we develop towards the the poor person, those are those are real loving kindness and real compassion. And then just like as I’m pointing out again to the text saying with respect to, like like, meeting a treasure trove, which is so difficult to find, and we should cherish that person.
So, again, that person, we should we should cherish. We should we should help that person. We should act in order to benefit that person. And then Geshe-la was explaining explaining the commentary to that which is telling us again when we meet with somebody who has an ill nature or somebody who is also severely ill, then again with some other problem or some other type of problem. Then again, you know, we shouldn’t we shouldn’t how to say?
When we see that person, we shouldn’t disregard that person, and we shouldn’t look down on that person. And and we shouldn’t have the wish to be, you know, far away from that person, distant distant from that person, Geshe-la says. We should instead greatly cherish that person, that being, and we should make our minds tangible. We should we should we should how to say bring our hearts close to them. Okay.
Is that making sense? And then and then we we are told that just like nowadays, we have we have this Christian monks or, you know, this is Christian community helping people, working to benefit people then in the same way also in the past in tibet those who are practitioners and students and practitioners I guess those were students and practitioners of the Mahāyāna teachings, they would also be serving and helping those who are ill or sick, etcetera. And then also so then, again, they not only they they served and helped those people they on the basis of those poor people individuals then they produced they gave rise to the mind of enlightenment, to the superior mind of enlightenment. They give they meditated on on on patience and then and also they took took unto themselves they’re suffering likewise they took onto themselves they’re suffering and then so then those those objects when one meets those objects then one one must then how to say, see see them as if one has found this precious precious treasure. Okay?
So then we have the next the next word verse which says that when others out of envy treat me wrongly with insults and the like. I will try to accept the defeat upon myself and offer the victory to them. This is very difficult for us to put into practice to implement, I guess, I said, because we we we never want to take to have any loss. We we want we’re always seeking for for for for profit and victory for ourselves. So it’s very difficult to to take this defeat upon ourselves.
I wasn’t saying And, yes, I wasn’t saying this. It is difficult for us to implement this this teaching, this practice because because of our self-cherishing attitude guess I said because we think that we are going to be at a loss we are going to you know yeah we think that we’re going to be at a loss whilst in fact this defeat it is actually going to benefit us and on the other hand the victory would be the real loss and that’s because mind, the self-cherishing mind is is a a it’s a mistaken mind. And it is what what is so it’s all inverted. It’s all like upside upside down. And then we are told that from a a worldly perspective then the way to go about it is that when somebody out of for for no reason or without any substantiation says says bad things says that we have forces we do not actually have or something like that.
It says bad things about us. The worldly way to go about it would be to actually how to say, answer back to that person and start arguing arguing with that person. And that’s the way that, I’d say, worldly beings think that that’s the right thing to do. Now for those who are for those who are striving to attain the state of Buddhahood, of of of the state of enlightenment then how to say was was training in training one’s mind and intention of benefiting others and Geshe-la was in the sense of training one’s mind cultivating an intention of benefiting others, cultivating loving kindness and compassion for those who are training in this way, it is not alright to act like that. And if one if one then, how to say, answers harshly in this way without any special for no special reason, for no particular reason, then, then, again, this is this is this is this is a great, how do say, mistake for the, I guess, I would say, And then so then Geshe lau says this on top of that, especially for those who are, cultivating, the mind of enlightenment and and loving kindness and compassion.
This is a this is a very big mistake, Geshe-la. So then and then when when somebody else then out of out of you know jealousy envy or and dislike then tells us tells us of or how you say, or beats And even if even if they beat us, then we shouldn’t we are told that we shouldn’t. And we shouldn’t we shouldn’t retribute to that. We should we should take the defeat onto ourselves. And lose.
And then and then give give the victory to them. Oh. And then and then and then we are we are we are Geshe-la was in the sense that we and we think and we when we hear that and we think, oh, that’s we we won’t be able to to act in this way. We won’t be able to do that. And then so then, yeah, it certainly is is it is difficult, we are told.
It is difficult to practice in this way. But but for for those who who wish to train their minds in a single mind and the single point of the in the in an intention to benefit others then then one must those must definitely, how to say, practicing this way, acting this way. Yes. It is it is difficult, but for those who are striving to attain enlightenment, for those who are striving to attain bodhicitta and and loving kindness and compassion, if one does not practice in this way, those won’t won’t come about won’t happen. So then this this teaching that is given in the Buddhist in the Buddhist system that we should always give we should always take defeat onto ourselves, and we should always give the the victory to others.
And we are told, it is not to say it’s not not to say that we shouldn’t how to say? That that we should be poor and remain poor and and and, how to say, and not not strive for the things of of for the for the thing of of of this life. How to say? What’s the best way for to put? So just just life.
What’s aims? Aims. Yep. Yeah. It was just yeah.
Values. Yeah. Yeah. The things that’s the things that you you hold valuable in this life, and and you shouldn’t it’s not to say that one should be poor and give up everything loose. Oh.
And there is a reason for practicing this way. We are told there is a reason for practicing this way. No. And then so then the need that we have to practice in this way is because when we take we take onto ourselves these small small defeats small losses then we will attain great results in the future and Geshe-la was explaining it is that this when we hear these harsh words and it was just this small unpleasantness that we experience out of hearing these harsh words or when we are hurt physically hurt by somebody it’s just a small a small wound that we experience out of that and by taking that loss into ourselves and giving the victory to others and practicing patience in this way then we accumulate great causes for the future. As a result of as as a result of having practice patience in this way, then one will attain the state of enlightenment.
And I guess I was saying so then when so then and that because because of that we are told then to take the loss onto ourselves and take the feast onto ourselves and give the victory to others but we do not we don’t want to take this loss onto ourselves because we we cannot see this cannot see this, how to say, the results of practicing in this way. We cannot see We we do not we do not see the benefits of practicing in this way. And and we think we we remain believing that we are actually incurring a great loss. So not understanding how we how we could profit from behaving this way, then, again, we retribute to those to those actions, and then we make the the whole situation worse, even worse. And then we are told that if how to say?
If there was there was no one could not attain any great result from taking the loss onto oneself by not getting angry then was motivated by compassion. If that was not the case, then it will be alright for us then to to answer harshly or retribute harshly to to those actions. And, yes, I was gonna say, but that’s not the case. But that is not the case. That is not the case that by by taking onto ourselves these small losses, then we we will experience and in giving the victory to others, we will experience this great results.
Lose. I guess I wasn’t saying, but it’s very difficult for those who are not Buddhists to accept such this this way of thinking. And even for for for for Buddhists for many Buddhists themselves, it’s very difficult to accept that. And then we are told that, for example, in the case of of the the the bodhisattva vows, which are the root vows and then there are this forty six secondary vowels and then there is one of them which states that it it will be a faulty action. In the Geshe-la was given the illustration of what’s his name in in Sanskrit?
Do you do you know the his name in Sanskrit? One one of the Buddha, forgot his name, the name of this of this previous incarnation of the Buddha, where he actually in order to save the lives of five hundred people, he he killed one man, and that’s because then for so he’s he for the sake of of saving the lives of four hundred and ninety nine people, he killed one that that was intending to kill all of the others. So then this this prince then he killed this one person and and it’s not that he didn’t then by killing it’s not that he did not accumulate any negativity. He did accumulate the negativity of having killed one person but then he spared not only spared the other four ninety nine people from being killed he also spared that one person from having the negativity of having killed four hundred ninety nine people. Yes?
Possible to ask a question? Yes. Yes. It is. Of course.
I’m just wondering on that point then, you could then justify, you For eliminating the wrongdoers, for eliminating the Chinese officials. You might have to kill a hundred Chinese officials, but you you save one point two million. And then I guess I was gonna say, so then it is not this is not the case. It does not follow that one can do that because we do not have bodhicitta. We do not have great compassion.
And that prince, which I cannot remember his name, prince at that point at that time he was endowed with great compassion and was endowed with bodhicitta That’s from from that place of bodhicitta and great compassion that he performed those actions. So it’s not it’s not similar in any way to to what you just said. And so I was we for we ourselves, we wouldn’t be able to to act like this this prince in the in the story of the the of this previous life of the Buddha. And you you for in our case, it wouldn’t be we wouldn’t derive any benefit from killing even one Chinese soldier alone. I mean and there are millions.
You know? Can can we get rid of all these millions of Chinese soldiers? Oh, yeah. Yes. Oh.
So what so we we are not able to act. We’re not able to act in this way. What we can do is is make prayers, aspirational prayers, and accumulate virtue, and maybe and maybe talk to them trying to change their minds. And then, I guess I was gonna say something. If we can if we can talk them out of it, talk them into giving a freedom for Tibet, then that’s great.
That that’s brilliant. But, otherwise, you know, by force by, you know, brute force, we we won’t be able to accomplish to accomplish much. Yes. So then what what what we have to do is, you know, meditate on compassion, cultivate compassion. So then then and then in in the in the text itself, it follows exactly the same illustration that Geshe-la has just given of this prince, this previous life of the Buddha, and this prince who has killed actually, the number was four hundred people.
And then and there was this one of them wanted to kill the three hundred and ninety nine, and and then the and this this previous incarnation of the Buddha, out of compassion, kill this one person and spare them all the suffering. So then so then, again, this this this whole section of the text of the commentary, which is just this story that Iglesia has just told us. And then I was just clarifying, make it to make it more obvious how how we how it is connected to this teaching of taking the the defeat onto oneself. So then this prince, Gesedhawa, what’s how do you say that? Gesedhawa.
Chandra. This previous incarnation of the Buddha, as Geshe is saying, this previous incarnation of the Buddha, he killed this one person, and he took this loss onto himself, which is the negativity of having killed one person. That’s the loss that he took onto himself, the defeat that he took onto himself. And he gave the victory was then, you know, having spared the life of these three hundred and ninety nine people. And what is it that he profited out of it what was the great result that he experienced out of taking this small this small defeat you know when he performed that action out of bodhicitta and compassion he accumulated how many how many?
So then he he accumulated equivalent of two hundred two hundred eons of merit when he performed that action. So that’s the the great result that he reaped out of that action Mhmm. Out of taking a small loss on himself. And and, I guess, wasn’t saying something. This this prince, this previous incarnation of the previous incarnation of the Buddha, none of his actions would bring would cause any harm.
No. No. How do you say? Would be harmful. None of his actions will be harmful because that’s because he had this uncontrived mind of enlightenment in in his mind stream.
Oh, yeah. And then we read the next verse, which says that even if those who have helped whom I have helped whom I have helped and in whom I have placed great hopes unduly treat mistreat me, I will try to regard them as worthy worthy spiritual friends, as holy spiritual friends. And then so then to those who whom we have benefited, we have only given benefit to those people, and they only and they have only only given us back harm. Those people, we should see it, and we are told we we should see them as as our virtues, spiritual friend. And then Geshe-la was explaining the next next part of of of the commentary, which is which is saying just that the world worldly wise then we benefit somebody we expect to be given something beneficial in return.
If we do some good, we expect good in return. But when it is the case when we do some good to someone and we get some evil in return, that person who is acting this way, who is giving us evil return, we are told we should that person. Then we are told we should see that person just like a spiritual friend for instance. We should like that person in the same way that we like somebody who is very important to us. The spiritual friend is is is making reference to somebody who we hold in very high esteem, and we should like that person in just the same way.
And then told and then we are told in in when we are practicing in the context of of practicing this producing this mind, which is intent on benefiting others, then when somebody when somebody like this when a person like like this one and We are told we should we should then we should what? Is Yeah so we should we should then practice even greater even greater love we should cultivate give rise to even greater love towards a person. And then we are given a quote from the Bodhisattva way of life, Śāntideva, which says: which one sees, which you see as your enemy. That person you should oh god. That person is your greatest and then we are giving the the explanation for that because the the virtuous friend our virtuous friend is the one who explains to us who who give us the knowledge about patience who explains to us and makes it possible for us to know about patience about practicing patience but with him or with her we cannot practice that.
We do not have an opportunity to practice that patience. And it is only And and and to practice patience, how to say? We we we will only be able to to practice patience when we meet with such an an enemy, and there will be no other opportunities to do that. There’s there is no other opportunities to do that. So then we are told that in order to increase and to increment this partial and contrived love and compassion that we have then we are told we must meditate on patience.
And then and then, again, for that to happen, then we have to practice. We must practice. And then on that basis, on on on this understanding then those who are training one’s mind in cultivating this benevolent intention this intention to benefit others then it is very important to must see then this this enemy one’s enemy as a how to say as a as a great virtuous friend you know a spiritual spiritual teacher So then in this way, we we we we see how very kind that person is to us, and then we we should then treat them with, you know, with great regard and respect. Behave towards them with with regard and respect. Okay?
And then Geshe-la was explaining the next part of the comment there which is telling us that that person we are told that to how to say regard that person who harms us with respect and then we are told that we should do that even though that person might not have any intention or motivation to benefit us Okay? And then this enemy that we are does not have any intention or motivation to benefit us, and we are asked to to be respectful towards, regard them respectfully. And, again, we are given an illustration that that that tells us, again, all the teachings cessation and so forth they do not have any intention, do not have any motivation to benefit us also and still we regard them very much. We they are very precious to us, and we regard them with great respect. Okay?
So then again again, explains, it doesn’t depend it doesn’t depend on on that person who is harming us having any motivation or intention to benefit us or not. That doesn’t matter at all. It is up to the person who is to oneself who is intent on increasing one’s good qualities, developing good qualities or not. So if one is up for oneself to see if one will is to develop good qualities or not to act in this way. You want you want to ask questions?
You want to make it a question question time? So if you have any questions, you know, this this is the time because we we are already it’s already three o’clock. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So in the second verse, you say yes. Bit bitter. Yeah? So, sorry. What do you want to say, miss?
Yeah. Like, you you can Guillermo was saying about the antidotes of seeing positive qualities in others and the and the and the faults in oneself. Oh, yeah. Okay. Seeing the positive qualities in others and the faults on oneself.
Lost. What about that? Yes. Well, just how, you know, that can be quite dangerous you know, when someone’s struggling to see their own value in the first place. I will find that beat.
What’s what’s the goal for them? To become discouraged or disheartened? Disheartened? Discouraged. Discouraged.
So then Geshe-la says, in that in that teaching, to to see the qualities in others and see the force in oneself. And Geshe-la wasn’t saying I’ll try to explain it using different words, and and it came out a bit. Geshe-la wasn’t saying different things about what what I was saying. So first, was saying, so then, know, if if one is looking in into one’s fault, then you will be sad. You’ll be discouraged.
And then your courage, you know, you won’t have any courage. And then Geshe-la took that into Tibetan and started saying, look. Pride and courage are two different things. Pride is is bad. Courage is is is good.
And I was saying, that’s not what she’s trying to say what she’s trying to say is that you know if you if you see the false on oneself you will be disheartened you will be sad you will be in this sad state of mind and Ingeja wasn’t saying well that’s not the case what you are asked to do with regards to pride is that see if the other person has good qualities and you have to see if you have those qualities or not in an honest way you have to see if you have those qualities or not and you do not have those qualities it’s not about you just staying there in whatever sad state you are in but it’s actually for you to work up and strive for attain those qualities to develop those qualities. And then and then coming back to the to the words that I used by mistake in in Tibetan, in case I was saying something pride and and courage. Is that the this heroism? Great courage. Then it is and it’s not about when we do that, we shouldn’t it’s not about remaining disheartened and saddened.
It’s about actually, you know, reinforcing one’s courage and working to attain those those good qualities also. Know? I want to have those qualities also. And Geshe-la was gonna say something that that courage is not the same as as pride. Pride is when you have, you know, a little quality or very few qualities, and actually think and you really believe that you have more qualities than you do have or that you have greater qualities than what you do have.
And on that basis, you you look down on others. That is pride. And then so then you can see can you see how those two minds, they are not similar? Pride and courage. You can see how different they are.
Is that Yeah. Does that help? Yeah? In relation to that to that same verse, Geshe-la said that if somebody is abusive towards you, you should you should speak up and not just Yeah. The Dalai Lama is saying that.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It’s I’m probably misunderstanding something, but it seems to conflict With the other verse. With verse I think it’s verse five.
Yes. When others out of envy Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I sold me, like, like, I should offer I’m there with you.
I’m there with you. Yeah. The diff accept the defeat and off the Yeah. Yeah. I’m there with you.
I’m there with you. Los. I may have let me see if I can if I can find the right expression. Karasa. Isn’t the second is the second verse?
What is the the the other verse? Five. Five. So this is the second one. Three four five.
I know exactly where it is. I know exactly what’s what’s what’s the. So then what it seems it seems contradictory but and I guess I wasn’t explaining so then one has to to answer yes and but one has to answer from love and kindness and compassion not from anger not from negativity. That makes sense? Except that in verse five he says, I will try to accept the defeat for myself and offer the victory to them, which implies something different than speaking up, doesn’t it?
And it seems to imply I was gonna say, well, it is not they are not contradictory. What is meant when when we are told that we shouldn’t when somebody says or does something harsh to us, and we we shouldn’t answer back, we shouldn’t answer back or we shouldn’t retribute with more harsh speech and violence and so forth. That’s that’s the meaning of it. It’s not contradictory. Is that okay?
Yeah. Los? Isn’t that the same as accepting a defeat, though, sounds more than just not answering harshly? I’m not making myself clear. Can you can you think of another way?
The second verse is the second verse is This one. This is the second one. This this is the second one. I’m trying to find the So then I was explaining. So then this the the text So then the the the I was explaining the the text the part of the text which is saying that we shouldn’t answer back.
And then Geshe-la wasn’t saying that we should. And the Islam is telling yes okay we should but we should do with respect out of compassion out of loving kindness and so forth and then so then there is this saying and there is the other thing of the text which says the other part of the text which is saying that we should take loss and defeat unto ourselves And if I was gonna say, if you think carefully about it, you will see that it’s not contradict each other. I guess that’s what he’s suggesting. So, Gisha, I wasn’t saying just that when when we are told that we should take defeat onto ourselves and give the loss onto others, that when somebody does something harmful to us, then we shouldn’t retribute to that. We should, I’d say, leave it at that.
And then and and that’s, you know, the taking the loss or the defeat onto ourselves, and the person is then having the the victory to them. That’s it. But they’re not really No revenge. And in fact if one acts in this way that person person who got the victory in this situation person did not actually profit from it. The person who profit from it profited from it was a person who took the defeat onto oneself, onto him or herself.
And that is because the person who has taken defeat onto onto herself or himself in this situation, that person, has accomplished patience and has then accomplished great benefit for him or herself. On the other hand, the person who has caused harm has done harm unto us, the person has committed a negativity and has, you know, incurred incurred the real loss. Okay. Loss. And on top of all that, the person who harmed us did that out of anger so then that you know there was even more harm for the person out of that anger.
Yes. So so this person that is passing on these insults and the like, for real, just mental defiance and obstructions within within their own mind that it’s projecting out onto me being the recipient. So the the person is is doing what what what he or she is doing because the person is overwhelmed by afflictive emotion perception. Is that what you’re saying? That’s where that’s the basis of it.
Yeah. The person does that because the person is, oh, you know, overpowered by those emotional conceptions. Yes. So you could really look at their their projections of their minds as having having no existence, just an illusion anyway, which, in that regard, would not you would not be able to raise any negative emotions within yourself if you’re seeing that as illusion like anyway, I wouldn’t know how to translate, you know, these these very Western expressions when I say that the person is projecting onto us. I could I could ask him I’m I’m telling I could ask him if you could see what the person is saying or doing as illusions.
I can ask that. We’ll stop with that. That’s fine. The would you would you know how to translate that? So then what what I asked what I asked then, so those, you know, bad words or or the whatever bad behavior the person is doing, whatever thing bad that the person is doing can we see that as being like an illusion is alright to do that and if I would say yes it is alright because it is it it does like inherent existence now doesn’t it so it is is of course it is alright to see it as an illusion So I guess I wanna say so then one oneself is like an illusion.
The other person is like an illusion. Whatever that that other person is saying or doing is like an illusion. And and that’s, you know, that’s the view. That’s that’s that’s very good. That’s perfect.
And then I was just bringing forth another teaching Because I thought that you you bring forth two two two different meditation in one question. So I brought I brought forth another teaching that is very popular in the Bodhisattva way of life. And which where we are told and Gesha was explaining that when we cultivate compassion with respect to to the fact that the person has is afflicted is overwhelmed by afflictive emotion concept so that we say well you know what a pity you know the person is completely completely possessed by those afflictive emotions and conceptions and the person is doing all these bad things accumulating all these negativities you know what a pity you know and then in this way we cultivate compassion and patience with respect to that person because the other question with regards to the illusions in the tibetan when I translate it to the tibetan it is immediately associated only with the teachings on emptiness you know what I mean and and this this this other teachings on compassion and patience which is a bit of a different approach so then I I brought forth wisdom wisdom and and also compassion yeah realizing that they’re delusions which are which have no which is the emptiness.
We we seen them as illusion. One thing But also generating compassion for their for their suffering that they’re projecting onto you. There’s Simultaneously. Yeah. No.
I don’t know about simultaneously. I was just saying there’s there’s two different meditations and teachings and teachings and teachings and teachings and teachings, and one of them is meditating on the emptiness is then meditating reflecting on the fact that they are like an illusion and the other one is meditating on compassion and patience which is then reflecting on the fact that the person is overpowered by afflictive emotions and conceptions so there’s these two different teachings and personally I saw it in your question maybe there’s two different points there and I wanted to digressa to explain both is that okay is we generate compassion, the compassion is illusory as well. So then I I said, yes. It is like an illusion also. And I guess I wasn’t saying there is nothing whatsoever which is not like an illusion.
Yes. Even even enlightenment is like an illusion. It’s it’s a bit because because there’s nothing which exists which exists inherently. There’s nothing nothing nothing which exists which which does not lack inherent existence. Okay?
So within with this once once you have this understanding, then there is no there there would be no thought or feeling of the negative emotion coming up So then so then I’m because Because you said you said if I understand it, then, you know, these afflictions won’t won’t arise anymore and and so forth. So if I translate what you said literally and I use the word understand then I guess she has a problem with it because it’s not just understanding it’s about directly realizing it when you directly realize it when you directly realize emptiness when you are an ārya being who has directly realized emptiness then the afflictive emotion won’t arise anymore and in order to direct realize it and I was saying so then how is what is it you have to do to direct realize it and Geshe-la said so you need to develop the wisdom that comes out of studying and listening On top of that wisdom, you need to develop the wisdom that comes out of contemplation of reflection. And on top of that, you need to develop the wisdom that comes out of meditation. And then, I’ve missed something. Can you give me a little hand here?
Depends on many factors such as efforts, wisdom, and merit. Yeah. It depends on on on on one’s one’s effort, joyous effort, on wisdom, on one’s how much merit one has. And then not only that, one then attains those, know, inferential recognition of emptiness and then one meditates. Because I wasn’t saying there are so many different levels of subtlety that one has to go through.
And then I was asking: How many hours can you do that? And Geshe-la was saying: Well, it’s not about hours, you know. It depends on so many factors and conditions. And then Geshe-la came up saying: Okay, it depends on one’s effort. It depends on one’s wisdom.
It depends on one’s merit. It depends on innumerable causes and conditions to be present in order to be able to accomplish that. And then so, Geshe-la wasn’t saying so. It’s it’s it’s extremely difficult to actually realize emptiness, but it it it’s Karissa, it would be very good if we could how is it that he said, we would be very good if we could produce the wisdom that arises out of studying and listening. That would be that would be great if we can gain an understanding of it, Geshe-la.
Isn’t it a good idea, though, to try So, yes, whatever time, whatever opportunity you have, whenever you have a chance, of course, if you can bring that to mind and you get more and more familiar with it. Yes. But you won’t get realization just from continually remembering that and becoming familiar. It depends on the person. It depends on so many cause and conditions.
Isn’t it? So then without because I wasn’t saying so then you you take that thought thought right away. Or, you know, every phenomenon is like an illusion. And if you apply then many different reasons reasonings to that in order to assert that. And then, yes, you can you can realize it.
But with that thought alone no way So then was asking, so what is it? Sorry. When is it? What is the measure that tells when when we have attained that wisdom that comes out of of the listening or studying and Geshe-la was saying so then after having listened to the teachers and studied carefully that particular topic whatever topic is at hand and when you have that clear understanding in your mind about the subject without you don’t have any questions a mistake is that a mistaken understanding of it without any questions or any thoughts and so forth and and that is you have then that is that is the wisdom that arise out of listening listening and studying and then and then I will and then on top of that I asked and what about the wisdom that arises out of reflecting and then it was when you take that and then reflecting contemplating that you you bring that to experience you how do you say that It’s to experience, isn’t it? Yeah.
So when you make that so, again, when you take that understanding So then when you take that understanding and then you reflect, contemplate it over and over again and you make that understanding clear and clear until to the point that it appears very clearly in one mind but not but not how to say but mixed with the sound generality and the meaning generality which is then the name and the concept of that whatever topic is at hand. You know? Maybe emptiness. The name and the concept. So and that And that is that is the point of of attainment of inferential inferential cognition, what is called inferential cognition, which is not a direct cognition yet.
And then when you And then when you take that inferential cognition, that, yeah, inferential cognition, which is mixed with the meaning generalize which is the name and the concept of whatever subject is at hand when you take that and again you meditate on that again and again to the point where you do not need to rely on the concept and the name anymore and then you attain a direct perception of that then you have attained the wisdom that arise out of meditation and then you have become a a superior. A superior being. A noble being. Noble being. Yes.
And then and then you will see and then by then then you will naturally see everything spontaneously. You will see everything as as an illusion, naturally, without any effort. So it’s it’s sort of like my consciousness picking up an object. So, for example, that that pot of flowers over there, but actually looking at it, but not cognizing it or giving it a label. Just just it being there without, yes, this is a flower.
This is the color. These are the color of the leaves. It’s that’s that’s completely soon as you see that object, you know that there’s a knowing that there is no label to that particular object at an ultimate level. Well within itself. Isn’t it?
Perception within his mind as just saying that is not an illusion. This this sort of questions are great. They’re they’re really great. And Scary everyone. So, sorry, can can you repeat?
If an enlightened being sees the flowers So my my normal conception, my conventional conception automatically labels it when I see it. Okay. Is it the enlightened mind wouldn’t wouldn’t label I’m not I’m not making myself clear. How can I say that? I I didn’t quite get it.
It’s a very you see, what what what that’s clear already. That’s clear. Excellent. That’s don’t we don’t we don’t need So then, I guess, I wasn’t saying when when a a non Arab being, a non noble being, a non superior then sees sees the the the plant and then it it thinks, like, flower or whatever, then it’s using concepts and and is the the concepts because because that being cannot see the way that, you know, the plant exists. So then they they are concepts and when when a superior being who knows who knows that the way that that phenomena exists, because he knows the way the phenomena exist, then that is not a concept anymore.
So I was going to say I was going to say we don’t need to you see what what is using here, and that’s why I’m you see them clearly having difficulties. And what Jampa Gendun is using here is a very technical vocabulary. And then Geshe-la was in like, he was making mention to direct perceivers. It’s a very technical vocabulary so it is it is not just black and white it’s not it’s not easy it’s really not easy it’s very technical it’s a very interesting subject it’s an amazing intriguing subject Can Vishnu give us the definition of direct perceiving? Most importantly, can I translate the definition of direct perceiving?
Mistaken well, Gesheva said, there’s a definition is quite long. Mhmm. But the most important thing about the the definition, the defining characteristic of a direct perceiver is that it is a non-mistaken consciousness. And then the conceptual mind is mistaken. It is it is a mistaken conceptual mind because it does not know the way that the phenomena exist.
And when one and when one understands the way the phenomena exist, then it is not the mind is not mistaken anymore. Yes. So because look. It’s it’s it’s again, like I said, and I’m I’m just cautioning you, people, because it is a very extensive and very technical subject it’s very deep and we have classes on mind and mental factors on every Thursday so you know please this is the subject please come so it is it is not just you know it’s not just a mere any any direct perceiver who will free us of afflictive emotions because there are the direct sense perceptions, there is the you know the five senses, those sense direct perceptions and those do not free us of afflictive emotions okay so it’s a lovely it’s a lovely subject it’s really intriguing it’s really exciting please come thursday night is really is one of the most intriguing subjects ever. Sorry?
Here. Here. Here. Yes. Yeah.
In the same bat cave, in the same bat time. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Is that