Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. A vivid analogy opens this 47-minute Q&A from Geshe Pema Tsering’s Sublime Continuum series: Buddha nature is like children hidden under nine blankets — always present, becoming visible only as each blanket is removed. Geshe Pema works through how obscurations are cleared via meditation on emptiness, supported by the accumulation of merit, then addresses a student’s question about Buddha’s omniscience — that nothing obstructs a Buddha’s knowing. He draws a careful distinction between the tantric term “luminous clarity” and the sūtra emphasis on emptiness, showing both point to the same realization. He then explains that arhat potential and Buddha potential are the same emptiness of mind, with motivation alone — liberation for oneself versus Buddhahood for all — determining the outcome. The session closes with a lively, humorous exchange about germs and mosquitoes that becomes a vehicle for explaining how a supreme emanation body operates entirely beyond ordinary karma.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 12 2005 07 21 (2) SC.mp3
UUID: b817acb7-089e-4184-a5fc-eadb3c64f982
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: Sublime Continuum (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Date: 2005-07-21
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 46.6 minutes
Words: ~3,586
I’m not telling. Yeah. And it’s a good thing we’re finishing because otherwise, I’m just gonna speak rubbish and I’m not gonna translate very well. Yeah. Twenty one.
And that will harm your understanding as opposed to developing it. I am. Sorry, Chris, did you have a question before? Uh-huh. Growing.
Growing. Oh, you don’t yeah. That’s yeah. Yes. You can’t produce something that’s permanent.
So Energy oil. Energy oil. Oh. So okay. There’s this word that I was trying to think.
If I say if I say the idea is to clean away the Buddha nature. It doesn’t mean clean away and make the Buddha nature go away, but you know how we say clean off the table? Like clean off the Buddha nature. Yeah? And the way that you clean the buddha nature is by Uh-oh.
Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh.
Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Okay. So it’s by clearing away the obstacles that lets the Buddha nature shine forward. It’s it’s clear.
So you’re you’re doing a process of cleaning because you can’t produce something that’s permanent. So the idea is to clean away so something shines forward. Right? So I guess it becomes manifest or direct, directly directly relevant, directly present. So, sorry, so then what you’re doing is gradually clearing away obstacles I’m sorry, obscurations and obscurations and obscurations, and then the Buddha nature is is in that it comes clearer and clearer and clearer, becomes more manifest and and stronger.
So I guess, let’s say, for example, if you’re sitting here, So if you sit Oh, yeah. Okay. So if you were if you were really cold and you’re under nine blankets, right, because he said he’s supposed to say five, and he goes, wait a minute. They say it’s nine obstacles, so we should say or obstructions, so we have to make make it nine blankets. So if you had nine blankets on top of you because you’re so cold, no one would really be able to see you much, and you wouldn’t be able to move, and you wouldn’t have any kind of anywhere to go with that.
So the warmer you got, the more blankets you could take off, the more that’s how I’m thinking. Look. He think he said, I thought of a better analogy. Sorry. He said Alright.
So you guys said, it’s it’s best if you cover children in blankets. And I was like, what? He said the analogy is better if you work with kids, because if you have nine blankets on a kid, you don’t know there’s a kid there. Alright? And and he said there could even be two or three children there, and you don’t know it.
So they could be very, very warm, but you don’t know they’re there. And then as it becomes war as it becomes warmer, if you keep taking blankets off the kids, eventually, people will see that the kid there’s kids there, and then eventually, they’ll they’ll be nothing, so they’ll be able to see the kids directly. Alright? So this is the process you’re going through. The kids are always there, but you’re trying to remove the the blankets so that they can become manifest or that not manifest, so they’re visible so that you can interact with them directly.
Okay. Uh-oh. Alright. So we what you’re talking about here is the two accumulations. You have the accumulation of merit and the accumulation of wisdom.
The accumulation what we’re talking about here in getting rid of obscurations is actually the accumulation of wisdom. Yeah. It’s the accumulation of wisdom, but the accumulation of merit is the main conditions for the accumulation of wisdom. Okay. So the so the accumulation of wisdom and what we’re talking about here removing the obstacles is actually based on meditating on emptiness.
That’s the main way that you remove obstacle obscurations, sorry, or blankets. It’s the main way you remove them. But you can’t meditate on emptiness unless you have the conditions in order to meditate on emptiness, and the conditions to meditate on emptiness come about through the the collection of merit. Yeah. Hang on.
I think can you remember it? Because Hiro had his hand up next. Because I was because he was up with yeah. Because Chris has his hand up, then Hero put his hand up, then yeah. Anyway, go on.
Go, Hero. America’s gonna remember it. So can Buddha recognize when is the can Buddha recognize the timing? Can he recognize the timing when is the best time to save sentient beings? Mhmm.
It’s not save sentient beings. Teach them sentient. Teach them. Yeah. Okay.
Yes. So he’s obviously not figured you’re not ready yet. No. I’m joking. No.
I’m joking. And and I don’t know that. I don’t. I’m just. Perhaps people are ready, perhaps the there’s nothing that the Buddha’s eye doesn’t see.
Buddhas. Buddhas. Let me translate that directly. There’s nothing that Buddhas don’t see. If there’s something that exists, they see it.
If it’s something that doesn’t exist, they don’t they don’t see it. So yeah. It it’s it’s a it’s an expression, isn’t it? Yeah. But if there’s nothing that the Buddhas don’t see.
Uh-uh. So the we have things things that we can see, and we have things that we know about that we haven’t seen, and there’s things that we don’t know about. So this doesn’t happen for the Buddhist. They’ve developed the ability, their mind to the degree that they can know something. They know any anything they want.
Right? So there’s no obstructions to knowledge. Like, we have obstruct things that obstruct our knowledge. There’s no obstructions to a Buddha’s knowledge. Yeah.
So if something exists, they know about it. They know. But not by So if there’s fishes in people’s eyes, they know about it. If there’s fishes in people’s eyes, they know about it. Fishes in eyes?
If there is, they know about it. You yes. Like, thinking I was talking about Mhmm. Which is what you say that you’re not being quite clear in life, but maybe that’s not the right. Not that I’m I don’t think it’s a very good translation.
So Luminous clarity. Okay. So they It’s the experience of the luminous clarity. Yeah. The same thing as the realization of it.
Uh-huh. Yes. So it’s just they’re talking about So so you say the nature of the mind is emptiness. The nature of the mind is the luminous clarity. The realization of either is a realization of emptiness.
One second. So so I guess the other thing Geshe-la said, usually, in the tantra, they talk about luminous clarity, and in sūtra, they talk about emptiness. Okay. So in Tantra, they talk about the object being clear light not clear light, luminous luminous clarity, and the mind realizing that object is also being luminous clarity. So the mind realizing the object and the object are both luminous clarity.
Not clear knowing? Okay. So one Sure. Does that sound like like what conventional Yeah. So I guess so just was oh, okay.
I’ll tell you what he just said to try and explain it. And then conventional mind, as in our conventional truth of the mind. Alright. Yes. You can say that.
You can say the conventional mind is clear and knowing, and the ultimate mind, yeah, is luminous clarity. Because luminous clarity is a Luminous clarity luminous in that it can be I’m trying to think of how to because they’re very, very different, and then I keep trying to think of how to make them sound and they don’t come across as different. Yeah. Right. Okay.
Let’s see if we can get this. The word luminous clarity. Yeah? Luminous refers to the fact that something appears. Clarity refers to the fact that nothing obstructs it.
So that’s like emptiness. Something appears and nothing obstructs it. Then when you have the definition of a conventional mind, again, clear refers to the fact that nothing obstructs it, and knowing refers to the fact that it holds its object. So that’s different. The the the second part’s different.
Said, so what’s the the what’s the definition of knowing? Right? And he said, definite knowing is a definition. It’s mind’s definition. Uh-huh.
Alright. So, yeah, anything that interacts with an object is there knowing. It knows something. Right? And this isn’t what’s in this idea of luminous in that it appears.
So is that awareness? Is that what you’re saying? Knowing? There’s three words. Yeah.
Okay. There’s three words in Tibetan. The first is usually translated as mind. The second is usually translated as awareness, and the third one’s translated as knowing, and they’re synonyms. There’s the total synonyms.
And they sometimes act as each other’s definitions. So the definition of mind is clear and knowing. The definition of knowing is awareness, and the definition of awareness is is is is knowing. Enjoy your yeah. Mhmm.
Okay. They because it’s a synonym of emptiness, they realize Buddha nature, but they don’t realize it for what it is that is the potential to become a Buddha because they’re focused on liberation. So the main thing that they’re working with is the arhat potential, the thing that they pay most attention to. Okay. Yeah.
But it’s it’s in Tibetan, he said they say it’s the hearer’s lineage or the hearer’s potential or the solitary realizer’s potential, but it is short for the potential of a hearer arhat and the potential of a solitary realizer arhat. So they are arhat, they have arhat. They focus on arhat potential. Yeah. Mhmm.
Alright. So the clear light nature of the mind actually has the potential to become the the nature body or the truth body. Yeah? So the way so what happens then is that you have Buddha nature and obscurations, and you get rid of obscurations through the antidotes to the obscurations, and when you finally get rid of it down to the last obscuration to knowledge, and get rid of it, then what you’re left with is what’s called the wisdom truth body or the entity body, which is the emptiness of the dharmakaya. So that becomes the emptiness of the dharmakaya.
The clear the clear light nature of mind becomes the emptiness of the dharmakaya. Uh-uh. Uh-huh. Okay. Else?
I said, so it goes from emptiness to emptiness. And Geshe-la said, it doesn’t turn from emptiness to emptiness. It continues to be emptiness. It’s just that the way that it that is is encased by changes. So you start off with obscurations, you get rid of the obscurations.
The more you get rid of the obscurations, the clearer the wisdom truth body is, which is the emptiness of the dharmakaya, alright, which is also sometimes called Svabhāvikakāya, sometimes anyway, depending on what you’re talking about. Here it means the emptiness of the dharmakaya, right? So once you’ve gotten Because you have that emptiness of mind, the clear light nature of mind, it gives you the ability to rid of obscurations. Getting rid of the obscurations means that you are becoming a Buddha. Yeah?
And once you get rid of the last obscuration, you become a Buddha. Yeah. And so the fact that you have the emptiness, the clear light nature of mind, the emptiness of the mind means the the stains can be gotten rid of. Yeah? The emptiness of the mind enables the stains to be gotten rid of.
The clear light nature of the mind enables the stains to be gotten rid of. Once all the stains have gotten rid of, the clear light nature of mind becomes the emptiness of the dharmakaya, which is the result. So the sorry. The emptiness means there’s flexibility. You don’t generate emptiness.
Well, sorry. Yep. You don’t generate, I don’t think either. I’m being a pedant because I have to translate it. Yeah.
Manifest it? Cool. That’ll do. Manifest it. Do you automatically manifest the other bodies?
Other bodies. Oh. Uh-huh. Okay. Once you’ve got the you’ve got the truth the wisdom truth body, there are others show up.
Once you’ve got the wisdom truth body, the others Show up. Manifest. I’m just so sick of that word. I mean, if it was used, it’s not only refined, but it’s like he’s manifesting this. It’s like, oh, he’s ill.
Anyway, sorry. So I’ve gotten sick of it. We go back to the business about the arhat potential and the Buddha Uh-huh. Potential. Uh-huh.
So is it something really separate, different? Hold on. Trying to look at it. Mhmm. Or is it sort of like the Buddha potential with a few obscurations hanging around the issue?
Sure. Mhmm. Okay. So Okay. So the the empty the the arhat nature and the Buddha nature are exactly the same thing, the emptiness of the mind.
Right? The clear light nature of the mind, they’re both the same thing. Yeah. So what it means by the Buddha nature or the arhat nature is where what you’re gonna do with that. Yeah.
What the the what the way that that is going to be used. So we all have like Buddha nature. Yeah. Right? But someone people which is a synonym of emptiness.
Mhmm. But some beings may choose to because they’re working for individual liberation, only use that potential in a in one way. It’s the same potential, potential, but you can choose to use it in different ways. So we all have the potential to have become a Buddha. Yeah.
Yeah? But some people may use that potential to only become an arhat. So it’s the result that’s different. So it’s a drive. Yeah. Because the thing that they started off trying to achieve is different.
So and an arhat would be trying to develop an understanding of emptiness or realization of emptiness in order to get out of saṃsāra, and a Buddha would be trying to develop a realization of emptiness in order to liberate all sentient beings from suffering. Okay. So Geshe-la said, it’s the motivation that determines the outcome. He would say that that motivation to attain Buddhahood makes you attain Buddhahood, and attaining Buddhahood means that you develop the four bodies. They’re part of being a Buddha.
Mhmm. Or how do I translate? Oh, yeah. Yeah. They said that you’ve got the potential to do stuff, but you’re not doing it.
You can be used in a certain way, but you’re using it in a worse way. Yeah. It’s I guess I was saying so sorry. Yeah. But I can’t Oh, he doesn’t remember.
Okay. Yeah. I was wondering if any germs stick to a Buddha’s body, Yeah. Same as us. Whatever chemical reactions that happens to us happens to a Buddha’s body.
Sorry here. Jam. Jam. Jam. Jam.
Jam. Bacteria. Bacteria. Because you know what I just translated to Geshe? You know jam that you put on toast?
I said if we get jam on our hand, does it if a Buddha gets jam on his hands, does it You a city girl. I thought you said jam. What? Germ. Oh, jam love my son.
Germ love and a germ love And Yeah. Hang on. He wants to know then is the germ hurting us? Germ hurting. Yes.
Yes. Yeah. Don’t hurt Buddhists. Yeah. Yeah.
But yeah. Because Yeah. But the Buddha wants to help the germ. Were you saying that the Buddha wants to help the germ? Yeah.
Actually, I’m this germ creating negative karma. But Yeah. This sticks.
He thinks he understands now. I don’t know why. Yeah. Okay. You gotta keep up with this because it’s tricky.
Alright. If what’s called a supreme emanation body. Yeah? A Buddha that’s like come here to be a Buddha. Alright?
And if they can have germs or fleas that might bite them. Yeah? And it looks to us as if they’re a normal person because they’re having fleas and stuff biting them. Yeah? But if they really are a supreme emanation Buddha, it’s not really a flea biting them.
Everything that’s happening to them is them manifesting oh, word. They’re putting on a show for us. That’s a better way of doing it. Putting on a show for us of being normal because the only people that we can relate to is normal people. Right?
If someone started behaving and bugs didn’t bite them and stuff like that, we go, so they do everything to be completely normal. So the bug biting the the Buddha isn’t really a bug. It’s the Buddha’s it’s part of the Buddha’s show. Show? Yeah.
Their whole body, the bugs biting them, everything’s a show. Display. Uh-oh. Mhmm. So from our point of view, it looks like the Buddhas are experiencing everything that we’re experiencing.
Yeah? From the Buddha’s point of view, it’s not like that. From the Buddha’s point of view, they are putting on a display that looks to us exactly the same as ours, but they’re only doing it for our benefit because they’re beyond the whole idea of karma or bugs biting them and stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
You wanna know if Buddha’s gonna help bugs? Is that really your question? If the if bug as soon as bug stick to the Buddha, to buy Buddha’s Yeah. Yeah. I thought it causes chemical reaction.
Uh-huh. It’s bad for the bug, and it therefore For could harm the bug? Mhmm. It could harm the bug. Mhmm.
This no. Buddha wouldn’t harm the bug. Uh-huh. But this Chemical reaction. Chemical reaction doesn’t this is beyond goodness or badness.
Okay. Okay. Okay. So, therefore, Buddha should lead this situation. Okay.
Okay. Because Buddha wanna set this Yes. I’m having a mental chemical reaction about this question, but we’ll get it. Oh, no. That was not.
Oh, no. Because we just say because guests were saying the the bugs are gonna look like they’re hurting the Buddha the same as us. And I was like, no. Does the Buddha hurt the bugs? And and yeah.
But by their by an involuntary physical reaction. And he said, the body of a Buddha, yeah, doesn’t hurt any bugs involuntarily either because it isn’t coming to being by karma. Oh. Oh. Okay.
Buddha’s our we would hurt a bug or a germ in this way because there’s things we don’t know. We do it involuntarily because we don’t know that creating a substance in our skin is going to harm the bug, yeah, or the the germ, but the Buddhas know that. Their understanding is so subtle that they know that their skin is creating a substance that is harming the bug. Yeah? So they wouldn’t do it.
They wouldn’t harm Harm the bug. No. That’s what I know already. Alright. Don’t wanna know.
I know that. But, you know, my question is, before the, you know, the bug, their karma Uh-huh. Harming themselves. Right? Uh-huh.
Bug bug is karma, harming. Yeah. You know? Because they’ve landed on the skin. Yeah.
But said, if a bug lands on Buddha’s skin, right, and and there’s a chemical reaction, yeah, then and that and the There won’t be a chemical reaction. Inert. Yes. It’s chemical effect on the bugs, not the Buddha’s side. No.
No. No. The Buddha’s because the bug comes onto the to the Buddha. Yeah? And, usually, by the bug landing there, there’s a chemical reaction that harms the bug.
Right? But if a bug lands on a Buddha, there is no chemical reaction. On the Buddha’s hand. Yeah. No no chemical reaction because they have the ability to know that they are creating a chemical reaction and to stop it.
I mean, I what I’m saying, chemical reaction for on them by their karma. What is karma in karma? Do they get karma from, like, bad karma from Bad karma. But they’re not harming a Buddha. They’re karma.
No. No. They wouldn’t harm Buddha. Uh-huh. But they try to harm Buddha.
They try to harm Buddha. Okay. But, obviously, they harm harming themselves. Why? Because of their karma.
Oh, because of their karma. Knows this. Do yeah. Yeah. So how does okay.
Buddha wanna wants to save this part. Right. Buddha should leave this Okay. Okay. Okay.
Okay. So the Buddha could either know what was happening with the the bug. Right? Could know what was happening with the bug. And if it was better for the bug for him to give him some blood as an offering, as a giving, as a generosity, it would do that.
If it was better for the bug to not take his blood as a as a generosity, not as an offering, as generosity, then the Buddha would do something to stop his skin being nice for bugs to eat. So depend on the result result of this? Uh-huh. Action. Action.
Yeah. Sorry, I got very confused. That’s one of the ten heinous actions. Okay. It says with yeah.
With harmful intention not from wanting to drink. Mhmm. So so the the the mosquito is not gonna be like, I’m gonna get this guy. They’re like yeah. So it’s harmful intent.
Buddhist bugs don’t have harmful intent. They have drinking intent. Yeah. They they’re out for blood. Good question.
Were you just saying that because you were trying to work with your mind? I was saying that because I read the. Okay. So miraculous.