Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. A translation dispute between rival commentaries opens this 44-minute session: Geshe Pema Tsering adjudicates competing readings of a double negative in the Ornament of Clear Realization, arguing that bodhisattvas see things inconceivable to ordinary beings rather than not seeing at all. He works through consecutive applications in the Seventy Topics — not conceiving form and its definitions as truly existent, the application issuing forth Buddhahood, the application of boundaries through the ten grounds — and explains that the main application spans from the heat level of the Mahāyāna path of preparation through the end of the continuum. A digression considers how practitioners can actually assess whether a teacher possesses clairvoyance. The session closes on the seven-stage epistemological progression from wrong views to direct cognition, locating most students at doubt tending toward the fact about emptiness, just short of the mental certainty that would visibly transform behavior. For students in structured study of Mahāyāna path literature.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 08 ST8 2003 09 04.mp3
UUID: 6b15f812-488c-4e9c-ba96-853f6f30fc09
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: Seventy Topics (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Date: 2003-09-04
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 44.5 minutes
Words: ~2,550
Preparation, not seeing Dharma and non Dharma as ultimate. Yeah. So that he’s being safe. Yes. So Geshe la said if he’s written Dharma and non Dharma, then you can understand that that could mean virtuous or non virtuous actions.
Yeah. But if he’d written existing or nonexistent or phenomenon or non phenomenon, then that couldn’t be related to, virtuous or non virtuous. But dharma has all these different meanings. And saying phenomena is a fairly limited translation of it in this context. If we see something as being inherently existent, then we see that as being ultimate truth.
So, at the moment, we see all things as being phenomena, all virtue and non virtue as being inherently existent, hence we see them as ultimate truth. Yeah. Yeah? You got both translations there, Joe? Yep.
Can you tell me what the next one says? Because I’ve got. No. No. The preparation not conceiving.
Not not seeing the inconceivable such as form, etcetera. That’s true. As true. Because so Geshe la disagrees with both the Jampas as far as I can tell because he says that there’s this expression, right, that says and it’s very difficult to translate, but it says, non seeing, non conceived. Non conceivable, non seeing.
Yeah? So he’s saying that they see things that aren’t conceivable and aren’t thought of, right? So he says the way that he understands this is that there’s this practice or application that bodhisattvas have where they see things that cannot be conceived of by ordinary beings. So if you just take out the knowledge It’s not seeing if you say it, application, seeing seeing things that are inconceivable. Yeah.
Yeah. Because Geshe la said there’s this one bit where it’s got, a double negative in it. Right? So they’ve taken that to mean that they don’t see. Yeah.
Right. I’m just making sure because it’s like when you’re contradicting these dudes, then you should yeah. Make sure you’re hearing the right thing. Right. Now, yeah.
He said that there’s this expression which says, like, not conceived, not thought of. Yeah? So it’s an expression, and they’ve taken it to be a like, one of those negatives to be referring to the scene when it’s not. Right? So it’s just like a yeah.
Translation thing. So he says it should be the application that sees things that are inconceivable to ordinary beings. Yeah. He thinks that jumping and he knew about another one. Seventeen.
Seventeen is the different one. You know? Because Oh, seventeen. Yes. Seventeen is the way he slipped that Jampa Gendun seems to have slipped in there.
But eighteen, nineteen, and twenty look equivalent to Seventeen, eighteen, nineteen. And nineteen. And what’s number seventeen? Seventeen says preparation not conceiving the nature of the object defined and characteristics of form, etcetera, as true. That’s the previous one.
That’s sixteen. Yeah. But he’s also got sixteen. But he’s got sixteen preparation not seeing and conceivable. That’s fifteen.
Yeah. That’s fine. Yeah. No. Because fifteen, he’s got preparation not seeing dharma and nondharma as ultimate.
Which is fourteen. Okay, so the next one, which is number sixteen in this one anyway, the application not conceiving form and so forth their definitions and the entities of that definition as truly existent so what that is referring to is this practice or understanding which sees form itself, its definition the definition is form itself and the essence of form sees them all as being not truly existent or doesn’t conceive of them as being truly existent. The application is issuing forth a precious result. Now, what the precious result is is Buddhahood, and it is specifically the aspect of Buddhahood that’s called the three greatnesses. There’s the great body, the great realization and the great abandonment.
Because this will be the result of this practice that they’re doing, this yoga that they’re doing, hence it’s called the application issuing forth the precious result. But the precious result is referring to those three greats. The next one is the application of complete purity. Geshe la said, Well, complete purity, that means it’s really good. It’s a really good one.
The next one, the application of boundaries, is referring to the different levels of the ten grounds. They progress through all ten grounds and each time they go through a ground, pass a boundary, so it’s the understanding working through those grounds. So there is definitely nineteen, it says in the Tibetan nineteen, so he says it’s nineteen, they must have made a mistake adding up. He’s got that for what what number? Six.
Yeah. He’s put the same he’s put four twice then. Okay. So the next bit in the where it’s in quotes, that’s like a that’s to keep linking it back to the our root text the ornament of clear realization so you can see that they were all written in the ornament of clear realization these nineteen nineteen branches or nineteen divisions now the boundary of this application, boundary of this main application is from the heat level of Mahāyāna path of preparation through to the end of the continuum now the reason that it’s talking about the heat level it’s from the heat level of the Mahāyāna path preparation is that on or in order to attain the heat level of the Mahāyāna path of preparation you need to have developed a understanding of wisdom, a mind realizing emptiness, yeah, based on meditation so you have minds understanding emptiness that start off by being a mind understanding emptiness that comes about from listening and then you have a mind understanding emptiness that comes about from contemplation and then you have a mind understanding emptiness that comes about through meditation once you’ve achieved that mind and then you move on to the heat level of the Mahāyāna path of preparation the other two are done or completed on the path of accumulation.
So we’re talking about wisdom arising from meditation, understanding emptiness, but not necessarily directly. Did you understand? Okay, now the next thing we’re talking about is the excellent qualities of the application. The application in this instance is the application, the main application that we’re talking about in order to develop the qualities of omniscience, the qualities of an omniscient mind. Now, Okay, so what we’re talking about here is the main application.
Now, this is in however the category of complete application, yeah? That’s the name of the category we’re dealing with and there’s a slight difference between complete application and main application, right? In that main application goes from the heat section of the path preparation through to the end of the continuum and the completed application goes all the way through the five Bodhisattva paths, so there’s a slight difference there. That I should. Geshe-la just read the whole section out and I said, Mhmm.
So now what do I say? And he said, Okay, tell them the definition and tell them how many divisions there are. So, the definition is: The definition of excellent qualities of this application or this practice is the beneficial qualities attained through the power of Okay, so a beneficial quality attained through the power of cultivating a Mahāyāna application which is the means of attaining it. Oh, yeah. So what that means is that the Mahāyāna application is the means of attaining the qualities that we’re talking about here.
Yeah. He’s gone to get tea, I think. Yeah. So Geshe-la said, you guys look tired. We can stop there for tonight.
Yeah. Just so and also, I have to tell you that there are fourteen divisions of this application. Oh. They’re in agreement. They’re in agreement.
He’s always going Geshe was always going crook at me for saying that translators make mistakes. And I said, so he made a mistake? Am I allowed to say he made a mistake? And he goes, that’s a mistake. He said, if it’s not Buddha, you can say they made a mistake.
He said, unless he’s a Buddha. If he’s a Buddha, he hasn’t made a mistake. He said he doesn’t know. But if he is, he hasn’t made a mistake. And if he isn’t, he has.
Mistake is a contradiction in terms because if you know everything, you don’t make mistakes. Yeah. So if people think if an ordinary person thinks that somebody else Is Buddha. Is is has special powers. Yeah.
They either have to be even Oh, yeah. Spiritual powers? Yeah. They could either be imagining it or they’re omniscient, but they have to be omniscient to know it. To know it?
He said there are certain world worldly qualities like clairvoyance that people who have other other qualities possess. And then we can see by them possess possessing the worldly qualities that they probably have the other qualities as well. Clairvoyance is not like Western idea of clairvoyance seeing the future or whatever. It’s like the clairvoyance is defined in texts. And just But as well.
There’s like six different types and it’s knowing what’s beneficial for others and stuff. Especially knowing other people’s minds, he said. How can you know how can you tell that, though? He said, if you If someone can read your thoughts, then they have clairvoyance. If someone knows everything that you’re thinking, then they have no then they have clairvoyance.
He said just because someone says it doesn’t make it true, and we don’t it’s very difficult for us to be able to be that aware of what other people what we’re thinking in order to know what whether other people know it or not. He said, yeah, it’s like, it depends on whether we like people or not. We do tend to put superimpositions on good superimpositions on people that we like. Right? And if so, if there’s some people like someone, then they’re gonna go, oh, they’ve got this quality and that quality and that quality.
And someone else who doesn’t like them, they go, no, they don’t. Yeah. So it depends on the on the superimpositions we’re placing on them. You were referring to specific teachers and things like that that you think you have doubts about them having? He said, if if if you can’t you shouldn’t just accept what people say.
If they say someone else has clairvoyance, you shouldn’t just accept it. You should sit there and try and figure it out. Like, think, do they know what I’m thinking? Do they know what I’m thinking? If they know what you’re thinking, they have clairvoyance.
If they don’t, they don’t. I said, they probably need purifying. Yeah. Yeah. These these applications and preparations, you know, for Indian, of course, but These are physical activities or what?.
Are they are they just meditative meditative activities? Like, these are things boys start start to do only in in meditative. Uh-huh. And what what what actual nature of these applications or preparations that what would that take? There’s many different types of they they come in many different forms.
Anything that acts as a cause for achieving enlightenment is one of these. It’s like meditative practice, it’s like building merit, the same thing except more subtle. He said, yeah, it’s like, it’s all these things of of of gaining merit, doing practices and everything. But the difference is, if we were a bodhisattva and we were reading this, we will be following it like a manual. We’ll be saying, okay, I’m gonna do that practice.
I’m gonna think of that mind because it’s very, very subtle. Yeah. But at the moment we’re just thinking about it but they’re actually putting it into practice. So every time they think of a practice, they do it. Yeah.
So the difference between us thinking about it and the bodhisattva’s practice is just really the subtlety of the mind engaged in that activity. Okay. So the way that we have to approach these is by thinking that in order to in order to achieve these states of mind, in order to achieve Buddhahood, then we need to know these things, so we need to study these things, we need to we need to, impress them in our minds so we have understandings of them. And by impressing them in our minds, may that be a cause for us to be able to reach these states, right? That’s the way that we have to practice it.
The way that the Bodhisattvas practice it is to actually look at it and say, okay, application of of of this and go ahead and do it. Yeah. So we meditate on these things. We achieve these things when we’re bodhisattvas first. Oh.
Yeah. He said, but I don’t have a hope of doing it at the moment. No. And he said not only hard, but a lot. Yeah.
Guess you are saying that Yay. Because I was saying you say you said it’s like, I’m not making it up. And you say, Geshe, listen. Yeah. Translation.
Geshe la said that was talking about inferential cognitions Mhmm. Okay. Sorry about that. I was just trying to make everything really clear. Okay?
Now, in dependence on like, we had a true understanding, alright, a complete understanding that was based on a very clear sign of, say, dependent origination of emptiness, yeah, then we need to have single pointed concentration in order to focus on that. Like, we have to have calm abiding in order to focus on that understanding, which would turn which, through familiarization, will turn that sign, yeah, that understanding conception of the sign, the inferential cognizer, into direct realization, right? But before we develop that, yeah, we developed this thing called I think it’s usually translated as belief, but it’s not the same word as you know, in mind and mental factors, right? You start off with wrong views and you work through to direct cognition, yeah? There’s a seven, yeah?
So it’s the fourth one it’s usually translated as belief, right? Geshe la thinks that the stage that we’re at now or most of us would be at now is that we’re doing the processes, we’re doing the analysis of emptiness based on dependent origination, yeah, we have doubts about dependent origination there’s three different types of doubts, there’s doubts tending away from the fact which he doesn’t think that we have, yeah, because we don’t think, no, things definitely exist, right? And then there’s equivocal doubt which is like it may or may not, yeah, and there’s doubt tending towards the fact. So if we’re doing a lot of thinking about it, we may have we may be in the state of having doubt tending towards the fact, yeah? But even if you develop a firm belief or firm certainty, mental certainty, that’s the other word translated as belief or certainty, yeah, about emptiness, that means that your behavior would change drastically.
There would be no clinging, there would be no desire, that it would go down very, very strongly. You could see the changes because you would honestly believe that nothing truly existed. And once you’ve developed that belief or that mental certainty about things not truly existing, then the realization of the inferential cognizer. Yeah?