Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 45-minute session, Geshe Pema Tsering unpacks a pivotal insight in the Seventy Topics series: that even a mind meditating on emptiness must itself be seen as empty. He defines the bodhisattva’s application — a yoga serving as antidote to two forms of wrong adherence: clinging to conventional phenomena (form, compassion, impermanence) as truly existent, and clinging to emptiness and its characteristics as truly existent. He introduces ten divisions of this yoga, showing that not only are phenomena empty but so are their attributes like impermanence and selflessness. A Q&A then works through the distinction between topic 3.6 (knower of bases as antidote) and 3.7 (the bodhisattva’s application of that knower), and whether Hīnayāna and Mahāyāna minds can coexist within one practitioner’s continuum. Suited to those already working within the Tibetan scholastic commentarial tradition.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 02 ST7 2003 07 24.mp3
UUID: 36a7f98d-673d-41a4-8d56-8c194d0cb909
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: Seventy Topics (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Date: 2003-07-24
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 45.0 minutes
Words: ~2,905
Period. And this is the same thing as number four, which is a knower of basis close to the resultant mother. This one? This one. Okay.
And the boundaries of existence: the Mahāyāna path of seeing through to the Buddha ground. Okay. So the next one we’re up to is an application of a knower of basis is the application of a knower of basis. The definition of a bodhisattva’s application indicated in the context of knower of basis is — okay, the definition of a bodhisattva’s application — what “indicated in the context” means is “about.”
So the definition of a bodhisattva’s application, which is like a bodhisattva’s yoga or practice, which is a mind — which is a knower of basis — and it is about — oh, sorry, hang on — a bodhisattva’s practice, which is about the knower of basis. Alright. That’s another way of saying what it is the definition of.
Okay. So a bodhisattva’s application — a bodhisattva’s yoga. Yeah? Or a bodhisattva’s practice.
Alright? Which is about knower of basis. So knower of basis is type of mind. Yeah? So it’s a practice referring to this knower of basis.
So indicate in the context is your own. Okay. So a bodhisattva’s yoga — yoga is the same as application. Yeah?
That cultivates an antidote to either wrongly adhering to the entity and attributes of the mode of subsistence — if you hear me, it’s all a nice thing, mate — subsistence of conventional basis, or wrongly adhering to the entity and attributes of the mode of subsistence of the ultimate. Right. Now let’s try and break it down with what Geshe la said so it probably makes sense. A bodhisattva’s yoga that cultivates an antidote.
So it’s a mind that’s cultivating an antidote to something. Yeah? Okay. It’s cultivating an antidote to two things. On the one hand, we have What’s antidote?
A mind that is attached to the true existence of conventional reality. Yeah, or the conventional minds. For example, the conventional minds in this case being things like compassion bodhicitta, the method aspects, right? They’re the conventional minds. The other thing that it is cultivating an antidote to is wrongly adhering to the entity and attributes of the modus subsistence of the ultimate.
What this is talking about is the way things are ultimately, rather than adhering to their to their entity the entity ness of the ultimate of minds focusing on the ultimate existence, which is basically seeing their minds focusing on emptiness as being truly existent. So this is the practice of seeing both the method and the wisdom as being entity less and yoga that is the antidote to this focusing on their entity. Okay. So the reason I have all these funny words in here then in more detail is bodhisattva’s yoga that cultivates an antidote. Okay?
So it’s a cultivates an sorry, an antidote. Cultivates an antidote to so it’s a mind that’s looking at the other practices that are going on and analyzing those, right? Now, it’s got two sections, as we said before. The first one is the wrongly adhering to the entity and attributes of the mode of subsistence of conventional basis. Conventional basis are things like compassion, emptiness, any of the focuses, the things that the beings are focusing on.
That’s the conventional basis, the form aspect. So if we talk about form and emptiness, this is the form aspect. Whether it’s the form of a mind or whether it’s the form of something that actually a physical thing, that’s what they’re referring to in this first part of this definition. It’s seeing that, for example, the conventional so we’re focusing on a conventional truth like impermanence, right? If we’re focusing on a conventional truth like impermanence, that’s the conventional base, but we have to see that that conventional truth is empty of inherent existence.
It’s the yoga that understands, for example, the emptiness of impermanence, the yoga that understands the emptiness of compassion, those kind of things. Right? And not only the emptiness of compassion and the emptiness of impermanence, but also the emptiness of the characteristics of compassion, the emptiness of the characteristics of impermanence. That’s why it has the entity and attributes. So the entity is the thing itself is empty and the attributes of the thing are also empty.
So it’s precisely seeing these different things all as being empty. So that’s on the side of the conventional truth, the first bit. The second bit is on the side of the ultimate truth. So even meditations and teachings and teachings and teachings and teachings and teachings that are focusing on emptiness need this application of a knower of bases to see that the emptiness itself is also empty. So the mind is focusing on empty, but the concept of empty and its characteristics also have to be seen as being empty of true existence or not truly established.
Okay. So then we have ten divisions of of of this one. The first one being the application that stops adhering to the basis of the attributes form and so forth as truly existent. This is the practice of bodhisattvas see all things. When it says adhering to the basis, the basis here is not the knower of basis basis.
Well, kind of is. Okay. Yeah. It is. Sorry.
Maybe it’s a it’s a different usage. And I had a headache before I started. Okay. It is different. So the application of a knower of bases and the and these bases in the first division is different.
It is different. It’s a similar word in Tibetan as well, but it’s a very different theme. The application of knower of basis is talking about a mind. It’s a mind that is conjoined with this understanding of selflessness, at least. When they mean base because selflessness is the lowest type of mind that we’re dealing with.
Yeah? So that’s why they call it a base. Now this base, when it says adhering to the bases, bases here is referring to all phenomena, which is different base. So it’s not just minds or anything like that. It’s all phenomena.
So the basis of the attributes, the basis of the attributes could be just as one term. You could change that into phenomena, basis of the attributes. The application that stops adhering to phenomena, form and so forth, as truly existent. Form and so forth is form, sound, taste, touch, and smell. One.
Oh, yeah. Okay. The next one, the application that stops adhering to the attributes, impermanence, and so forth as truly existent. Now yeah. So the basis of the attributes is for phenomena.
Right? The attributes themselves are the characteristics of phenomena. So not only do you need a mind that is seeing that the all phenomena themselves are empty. Also need to be focusing on the fact that the characteristics of all phenomena are also empty. So therefore, we’re talking about here things like impermanence and selflessness.
So we see that a thing is a form, for example, is not inherently existent, but also the impermanence of that form is not inherently existent. The selflessness of that form is not inherently existent. Therefore, we have sound as well, so we say a sound is not inherently existent, but not only the sound isn’t inherently existent, the impermanence of that sound isn’t inherently existent. The selflessness of that sound isn’t inherently existent. And the same for smell and the the things we touch and everything else, all the other phenomena that we experience.
So their characteristics and their base, their characteristics and the thing themselves are both not inherently existent. Okay. So the next one, the application that stops adhering to the incomplete and thoroughly complete basis of excellent qualities as truly existent. Now what this is referring to is all the qualities that sentient beings have. Are we have to be able to focus on all of them as being as being not truly existent.
That’s when I say incomplete, they refer to the qualities of sentient beings. Then when it says thoroughly complete, that’s referring to the qualities of Buddhas. So whether we’re talking about the the hang on. One So the the the omniscient mind of the Buddha can focus on different things. It can focus on impermanence.
It can understand impermanence properly. It can understand selflessness properly. So when the the these call all these qualities that the Buddha has, all these understandings that the Buddha has, we have to see that they are also not truly existent as well. So we can stop there for tonight. Any Oh, yeah.
So if anyone has any questions. Have you got questions? Oh, yeah. And that scared him off. He’s he’s a he basic Geshe la just said in slang interpretation, come on, bring him on.
Yeah. Okay. So what happens is there may be a Mahāyāna person or there may be a Hīnayāna person. But just because someone’s a Hīnayāna person doesn’t mean that they can’t have thoughts which are of a Hīnayāna type. So a Mahāyāna person can have an understanding of impermanence, have an understanding of selflessness of the person, which according to the autonomous school, both of those types of thoughts are Hīnayāna thoughts or Hīnayāna type of thoughts.
Right? So when they say here a Hīnayāna realizer, they’re actually talking about Hīnayāna mind. Yeah? A Hīnayāna understanding. So it’s something that is focusing on an object of a Hīnayāna nature.
For example, impermanence or selflessness of the person. So they can abide within they can be within like, such a being away. They can be within the continuum of Mahāyāna being. An understanding of impermanence, an understanding of selflessness can be in the continuum of a Mahāyāna being. Alright?
But they’re still of a Hīnayāna type. They’re still in like that subset of minds. The same can also happen that a Hīnayāna person can have a Mahāyāna mind. For example, an understanding of emptiness, and that can be in their mind of a Hīnayāna person. But they can be a Hīnayāna it can be a Hīnayāna continuum because it doesn’t have great compassion.
Yeah. But I don’t know. Realize that they put down here, it sounds like a person, but it’s not a person. It’s a mind realizing something. I’m completely confused with how three point seven complements base awareness.
With what? Sorry. Base awareness. Okay. What do you mean by base awareness?
Well, base awareness is the, you know, the No rebases? So this is to do with what is happening in the context of Base awareness is the mind of an arhat. Why? Now I understand base awareness. The mind of an arhat.
You mean, or our heart? An arhat is someone who’s completed the path. Yeah. The lower vehicle practitioner. Okay.
Yeah. Because I was getting so the so it’s the mind of a lower vehicle practitioner. I can’t understand how three point seven is cost. Okay. All right.
Now Okay. The reason you’re confused is because it’s not a base awareness. You see, in the definition, it says that, I don’t know, heading for the one that I’ve got here says application of a knower of basis. Is that what it says there? No.
It’s one that’s got a body sample preparation toward the context of beta wear. Okay. Yes. So that’s closer to what it actually is. In terms of the way that they’ve set up the definition for this part, it says, the definition of a bodhisattva’s application indicated in the context of knower of bases.
So it’s the way that bodhisattvas use the knower of bases. So it’s they have the knower of basis in their mind stream, and it’s what they do with it. Right. Okay. Yeah?
Yeah. So it’s what practices they use that incorporate knower of bases. Does that make sense for you? So that’s actually happening a lot through all the different topics we’ve gone through that you get things that are exactly the same, but they’re using a different way to explain it because for some people, one way of explaining it will be easier to understand, and for other people, another way of explaining it will be easier to understand. So one of them is talking with reference to the goal, like how far away it is from the goal, and the other one is talking with reference to the characteristics of the actual thing itself.
They use all these different ways to explain something so we can get a better understanding of what it is. Three point six and three point seven. He just said something, he’s like, yeah, but I didn’t actually get the question right. He was like, oh, then don’t worry about repeating it. He just briefly said that it was there’s different ways of explaining it.
It’s similar with with what we do with lots of things. For example, we talk about a person, right? We talk about the different characteristics of a person. We say a person is empty of inherent existence. We say the person is selfless.
We say the person is impermanent. We say the person comes about because of causes and conditions. All these are different ways of describing one thing. It’s the same when we talk about something being a knower of basis of the discordant class or something being a knower of basis that is far from the resultant mother. But that wasn’t your question.
I was having trouble because I don’t have three point different bits. So we’re talking about three point six and three point, what was the other? Seven. Three point six kind of defines, it’s the antidote-class knower of bases, which is the same as three Okay. So so in the definition now, I’ve got it because it’s like, okay, one bit in the Tibetan and then I go find it in the English.
A bodhisattva yoga that cultivates an antidote. Cultivates, it actually meditates on meditates on the antidote. So it’s the same antidote, but one is is is an antidote, and the other one’s a meditation on the antidote. So you can instead of called that, it probably says meditate there, I don’t know, meditates on the antidote. Yeah?
So that’s the difference. It’s the same antidote, but one’s a meditation and the other’s the actual antidote. Well, this is a three point seven elaboration, three point six. An elaboration. Can you elaborate on that?
Honestly, because it’s like, what do you mean by elaboration? It’s a practice. Well, three point six is just setting up the definition of antidote based awareness. Yeah. And then three point seven is an elaboration of that in which in which it teases out the various practices that are that that one does when one’s using Right.
Okay. Now they’re definitely not Okay. So this knower of bases isn’t just about the knower of bases. It’s not just an elaboration of the knower of bases of the antidote class. It’s an elaboration of the knower of all different types of bases.
We’re talking it’s it’s it’s only referring to those in the continuum of of Mahāyāna beings. So So so that includes the ones like know of basis, not abiding in peace through to compassion, not abiding in cyclic existence through knowledge, all of those. So when any of those come up, what they have to do with it is this expression is what they’re talking about application of a knower of basis, like the meditation process that is used in conjunction with the knower of basis. So how you use the knower basis to progress along the path. That’s what this is talking about.
But the antidote, like it says in one case, knower basis of the antidote class, right? Or knower of basis within the group of ones that have the antidote. The antidote is seeing emptiness directly. Okay? So they’re cultivating the antidote within the application of a knower of basis.
It means seeing emptiness directly when and using it in order to stop wrongly adhering to the entity and attributes. And then the antidote in the knower of basis of the antidote class is the same understanding emptiness directly. Okay? So the antidote is the same, but number seven isn’t an elaboration of number six. It’s how you use all of the knowers of bases.
A person? Yeah. It’s not a person. Oh, a mind that understood itself as a person. And now you’re saying I’m not saying anything.
Realizing emptiness. Pardon? I understood that knower of bases Yeah. The mind that I’m that realize selflessness. Yeah.
And yeah. These meditation started realizing emptiness. Because they’re not knowers of bases. Okay. This one isn’t a knower of basis.
It’s an application. It’s a yoga that’s referring to the knower of bases. What did he jump in and call it? A bodhisattva’s yoga. A bodhisattva’s yoga — which is the antidote.
Which is the antidote to Oh, no. Incorrectly, you can see the nature of No. No. What do you call the name? Sorry.
Oh, the name. Three point seven. A bodhisattva’s application taught in the context of the knower of bases. Did you hear that? So a bodhisattva’s application taught in the context of knower of bases.
Okay. So so So it’s a it’s a yoga.