Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. Working backwards through the completion stage — from enlightenment to its root causes — is the structural move that shapes this 70-minute session. Geshe Pema Tsering traces the chain of dependencies step by step: why the union of pure illusory body and clear-light mind requires clear light to arise first; why clear light requires the non-pure illusory body (third stage); why that requires dissolution of karmic winds into the indestructible drop at the heart centre through mind isolation; why mind isolation requires speech isolation (vajra recitation, which releases the channel-knots at the heart); and why all of this rests on generation-stage practice, tantric empowerment, intact vows, and bodhicitta training. A horse-and-rider image — the clear-light mind directing the subtle wind that is the material cause of the illusory body — clarifies the core causal relationship at the heart of the discussion. For practitioners already grounded in Highest Yoga Tantra.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 27 2006 03 09 G and P.mp3
UUID: cc437929-19ab-49e9-b7aa-5943f124fee4
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: Grounds & Paths (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Date: 2006-03-09
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 69.9 minutes
Words: ~4,429
So then Geshe-la is telling us we now we have to give rise to good motivation, then thinking of attaining enlightenment for the sake of beings, and we are now going to study this text. Seven. Twenty seven. Yeah. It’s a nice bit.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that’s right. Because we did examine the definitions. Yeah.
That’s right. Okay. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Tantra is.
Right? The So then then we go to so we we start with the the meaning of each classification. There are two denumeration and definitive order of the five stages and the meaning of each. And then so, again, I was explaining what is what are the five stages. Okay.
And there there are many different ways ways to explain the five stages of this division. So Geshe-la was was giving one of them. So it’s how would you say? Isolation of of body, isolation of speech, isolation of mind, and then the illusory body, and the clear light. And I was saying it could be either way.
It could be and then clear light or and then. So I was I was I was asking a lot because the the book where I was studying in English, it talks about six stages, and then it talks about a variation variation of of five stages. And then as I I was asking about so there there is another system that we talk about six stages. And he says, okay. There is so there is a again, it’s the same as a isolation of body, isolation of speech, isolation of mind, and then illusionary body, clear light, and the union of of of both, illusionary body and clear light.
So, yeah, there are some variations in the way they they classify, yeah, categories. And then and then Geshe-la was furthermore, I’m gonna say that if if you if you divide the union of clear light, You can you can be divided in two. You can be divided into the learners’ learners’ union and the non learners’ union. Okay? So then I may ask what is the difference in the.
So the learners union has not attained enlightenment, and the nonlearner’s union has is is has has attained enlightenment. So then then we go to the next page, page twenty eight. We start with the numeration definition of order of about five stages in the first paragraph. And then so in order to accomplish the ultimate object of accomplishment, and the the the text in English is saying about establishing the final object to be accomplished. So in order to accomplish the ultimate object of accomplished or the final object of accomplishment, then one has both the common and the uncommon path path are necessary, are needed.
And then Geshe-la was saying, so the the common paths are the perfection vehicle and the and the and the and the three lower tantras. Those are the common ones. And the uncommon ones, the Geshe-la says, refers to the to these five stages of the completion stage. Okay. So then so then the next next thing that the text says the text text is saying, so then the paths, other paths that are not included in these that were just mentioned, the common and uncommon paths, they are not needed.
Okay? And then the text goes on to say that general in general, the tantras, the highest the text or the text on on on on generally, the text on highest Saba tantra explain that in order to attain accomplish the union of the nonlearners union of the Clear Light and illusory body. And Geshe-la explained, so then in order to accomplish then the state of no more learning, which is to say, we’re not accomplished Buddhahood in the Guhyasamāja Tantra, then one needs, how to say, one needs before that, one needs the state of union of a learner, which is the collection, the gathering of both the pure illusory body and the what I translated as actual clear light. In the text here, the text here, it translates in one word as a meaning clear light. Okay?
And the translation I found for for the same word was actual clear light, the real the actual thing. It’s it’s is is not out there. It’s in here. But we can get into that later. It’s very difficult, but we can get into that later.
Yeah. So then it’s so then I was asking, so what is what is just to to check the meaning of the Tibetan word, which is turn. And then I was asked, so what is what is the actual meaning of that? And Geshe-la was saying, so it has to do with with the mind that realizes emptiness. It has to do with ultimate reality.
It has to do with actual what what is actual? Ultimate reality. It’s the same word where it is translated as as ultimate. When we talk about ultimate reality and conventional reality, the two truths, ultimate truth and conventional truths are the same word. Okay?
This one. Okay? So then Gela was explaining what is this pure illusory body. So first, as for the word that is translated as as pure, which is which is correct. It’s it’s just referring to the fact that at this stage, all there is there is obscurations to liberation and obscurations to enlightenment.
Right? So which is to say that afflicted obscuration obscuration or afflictive obscurations and and obscurations to knowledge, cognitions. So then at this stage, the the afflictive obscurations were completely abandoned, which are which are this this the word is it’s the same word that refers to afflictive emotions and conceptions. So they are completely abandoned. So you have a pure, the pure in this sense.
And then the illusory body, it’s just referring to to the body of a a a fully enlightened being of a Buddha that that we we we visualize ourselves into we visualize ourselves as as this It’s not. No. It’s not. No. I I will I will ask, but it’s not the.
It’s it’s either from the is is emptiness itself. So so then is the is the is this v the body of a of a fully enlightened being, which is free from this afflictive emotions. It is not dependent on afflictive emotions. And then, again, I was saying that the the actual clear lights and the and the the body of this enlightened being, they have the same nature. So there’s one mind, and they come together.
And then so this talking about the learner’s union of the pure illusion body and the actual clear light. Yes. Clear light, the mind of clear light and the illusion body together. So then, again, I say, so then just like the hand is is made of of the collection of the five fingers and so forth. So then the same fashion.
The out of the the mind of clear light, the mind of clear light acts as a how to say a substantial cause of the of the body of the illusory body of a Buddha, and then they come together. Okay? Does that make sense? So then again, I’m saying, so then that that mind of clear light is a mind, is a consciousness. And then out of that consciousness, with that consciousness comes comes a wind.
One wind is is together with that consciousness, with that mind. And then that mind, that wind is the substantial cause of the illusory body that we are giving rise to. So then in the same again, I was giving the the the the example of of a horse riding the horse. So the horse goes wherever the horse rider tells the horse to go. And then the same way we have the mind of clear light which is like the horse rider.
And then whatever that mind of clear light goes, the horse which is the the illusion body will go to. And then the union on on independence in dependence on both the mind of clear light and the illusionary body, then Okay. So it’s in dependence on on the mind of clear light and the wind that comes with the mind of clear light, then the the illusion of body is manifested. Now you you want to know about the I’m going to ask. Then it’s it’s the way we understood it the way we understood is that the the mind of clear light, which is a mind that is realizing emptiness, it then is related to the dharmakaya.
And the and the the pure illusionary body because it has a form that is visible, but it’s not visible to every sentient being. It’s visible only to other beings. It’s related to. The illusionary body will be there. Because the don’t have doesn’t have form.
And we understood that we got it. Then I just thought it was called m a y a kaya. M m a y a kaya. Mayakaya. Maya.
Yeah. If you lose your body, you can call it mayakaya. Well, this is probably this is the translation of of a literal translation of the Sanskrit, illusionary body. Is body. Is illusion illusionary body.
So then we go to the next paragraph. Okay? And then the Tibetan text is just using a pronoun that refers to that. So in order to accomplish that, and then what what is what is referred here as death is is the union of the pure illusionary body and the actual mind of clear light and the actual clear light. So in order to accomplish that union of the illusory body and the mind of clear light, then one has first how to say?
One needs before before being able to accomplish that, one needs to give rise. One needs the the the pure illusionary body. So then because because the text says, because if we if we do not give rise to the pure illusionary body before, then we won’t be able to accomplish we won’t be able to to attain the union of such, which is I’m I’m gonna say the literary again, but of such refers again union of the pure illusory body in the actual clear light. So in your analogy of Yeah. You have to force before the.
No. So maybe maybe translated it wrong. But when when when we were talking about the the the the horse and the rider, the rider is a man of clear light, and the horse is the wind that follows that mind that accompanies that mind. And and and that wind is the the substantial cause of the illusion of body that you’re going to give rise to, which comes out. So it’s, again, it’s the same process that or the sadhanas, emptiness out of emptiness that comes the body of the deity and so forth.
So it says, it’s not only the mind of clear light, but every mind has has one wind that accompanies it. Okay? You look tired today. So then the text goes on to say that the mere to merely attain union, it is the it is not necessary for the the pure illusionary body to proceed it. And then I was asking, what’s what is the text referring to when the what is which paragraph is that?
It must be the pure illusory body. No. No. Where where was it? So then then saying, in order to attain the just the mere union, which is to say the mere union, and again, the ordinary union is is Gela says it is the same.
So it’s not necessary to have the pure illusory body preceding it because the text says that the ordinary the attainment of the ordinary union and the pure illusionary body, they they are they necessarily they are attained simultaneously. So one does not come before the other. They come to they come at the same time, and that’s why it is not necessary to have one before the other. Makes sense? This is a long line of reasoning.
This we are going to follow. So from from this the text is going from enlightenment back to the beginning of the path. Okay? And then the text says, in the next paragraph, So then the text is saying in the next paragraph that in order to to attain the pure illusionary body, one the the the the actual clear light, mind of clear light must precede it. Okay?
Is is that procedure must proceed? No. No. So the the English is incorrect. Okay?
The the English is incorrect. The English is incorrect. It’s it’s in Tibetan, it’s clearly stating that in order to obtain the pure illusionary body, the mind of the pure illusionary body, the mind of clear light must precede it, must come before it because it says, because that pure illusionary body is is is substantially caused by the the the the fundamental winds, which is very subtle, which is which is which which is which mounts or which which is mounted? Yes. It’s mounted here, which is the mount for Which which is which is, Yeah.
Yeah. Which is the mount of the mind of clear light. Yeah. Okay. That does that is that clear?
Yeah. Because it it implies the other way, doesn’t it? This is the other way around. What what is the fact is you have to attain the mind of clear light first because the wind that comes with the mind of clear light is the substantial cause, the direct cause of the illusionary body. So you must attain the mind of clear light first.
Yes. That’s all. Yeah. That’s that’s the word proceed. Proceed.
Then No. I think that’s right. What she’s saying here. It says to obtain the pure illusionary body, you must proceed the meaning of your life. No.
No. This is the obtainment of the pure illusionary body must proceed. No. No. It’s the obtainment of of the mind of clear light must precede the obtainment of the pure illusionary body.
So I was okay. Clear light first. Clear light first. Because because of the winds, which is the amount of the amount of clear light, which is a substantial cause of the pure illusionary body. Okay.
It’s okay? Probably not the same. Yeah. It was probably some spelling. Certain is a misspelling.
Mind of is a is a very subtle mind that is realizing emptiness. Yes. So it is it is related to the. Yes. Because illusory body is is the substance which of which the illusory body is made is the wind on which that mind of the light is mounted on.
Okay? Again, then we go to the next paragraph. Okay? And then the text is saying, so then you see how how it is going step by step back to the beginning of the path? Can you can you already see it?
So the text is saying now, in order to obtain the mind of the actual mind of clear light, then we need to accumulate the collection of three countless eons. Or we need something which is equivalent to that, which is the illusory body of the third third stage or any other practice equivalent to that in order to preceding the attainment of this actual amount of clear light. And then Geshe-la briefly explained what referring to as to as the illusionary body of the third stage is Gala said that that is referring to to the a non-pure illusionary body. The illusionary body, which is not a not a pure one. So the non pure is needed to produce the clear mind, which is then needed to produce the pure illusionary body.
Yes. Yes. Oh, yeah. Cool. Very interrelations.
This one. This is very nice the way they do it here. You go step by step. Mind boggling. Boggling.
So then so then the text goes on to explain why why is that? Why we need those things in order to attain the the the actual mind of clear light? What what we need? What what is it? Why we need those those two things?
The the three countless eons of accumulation or or the non pure illusion body in order to be able to attain the the actual mind of clear light. So the text is is saying, where are we? Where are we? So then whatever of these two if the if if neither of these two happens before, then other other paths will not be able to abandon those very subtle obscurations which only which only the the the the actual mind of clear light is has the the capacity to quickly exhaust. So then because what what the text is referring to is that, we need what we need to to we need to get rid of those extremely subtle afflictive obscurations.
Right? And the only thing that can get rid of those extremely subtle afflictive obscurations is the actual mind of clear light. And then once we have generated extremely when we have we have generated this mind of clear light, have accomplished this mind of clear light, we we are able to get rid of this extremely subtle afflictive obscurations. And then which is which is to say we are we’re able to give to to get rid of all the the the afflictive obscurations because those are the subtle ones that we have we have gotten rid of the more coarse ones before. And then after that, we can give rise to the to the pure illusionary body, which is which is which is non afflicted body.
This one. Okay. You okay, Judy? Yes. So then and then we go to the next paragraph now, and we go one step one step back in the in the path again.
And it says, in order to attain that illusionary body of the third stage, then we need we need, how to say, that mind isolation. How to say? The mind isolation. The mind. Yeah. The the the the practice, which is equivalent to that preceding it must be preceded by mind isolation or a completion stage practice, which is equivalent to that.
Okay? And then and then so then the reason the reason why why that must proceed the isolation of the mind must proceed, the attainment of the the illusionary body of the third stage is that by the force of meditation of of such a completion stage practice, then if if if it is it doesn’t if it is not preceded by the dissolution on the indestructible drop at the heart center, which is like which which is alike with no. No. No. Okay.
I’m getting very little. Okay. So if if it is not So the it’s like this. So if if it doesn’t if it doesn’t if it is not if it doesn’t happen that the winds the the karmic winds all the karmic winds, like in the stages in the stage of death, just like in the stage of of the stages of death dissolve in the indestructible drop of of the heart center by the force of such a meditation of of of the completion stage, then one will not be able to accomplish such a body a body no. An illusory body, which is exactly like that of the intermediate state.
Does that make sense? Oh, yeah. That is high. So that is what what do we need in order to be able to achieve the usually, the body of the third stage. We need that isolation, the mind isolation.
So because without the mind isolation, those those winds, those karmic winds, are not they will not dissolve in the in the indestructible drop at the center of the heart, which is which which is which is a process, which is like the the process of dying. So if one cannot achieve that, one cannot give rise to the illusionary body, which is which is just like the illusionary body of the of the intermediate state in the sense of time. Gala, So so, again, let explain that that’s those words dying, the dying process, and the and the intermediate state body, they are they are like analogies. So the dying the dying here, which is referred here, it refers to the realizing of emptiness. And out of the mind that realizes emptiness, one gives rise to the to the to the body of a Buddha, which is like the body that we have in intermediate states.
Okay? Cool. And then we go to the next paragraph. Okay? Which is which is saying then that the obtainment or the attainment of the isolation of the mind or completion stage practice, which is equivalent to that must be preceded by the isolation of speech of how to say, which a branch a branch of what is called the vajra recitation, or which I translated the one at one time as pranayama, which is which is imputed by name as the vital recitation of which is the the the the the isolation of speech.
Okay? Or or a completion stage practice, which is equivalent to that. It must be preceded by that. So it says that if if if if if the by such if by such a practice of the completion stage, this vajra recitation or isolation of speech, the the knots at at in in the central channel at at the level of the heart center are not completely released, then the mind isolation or another completion stage practice, which is equivalent to that, one one won’t be able to give rise to such mind isolation or or equivalent practice. Does that make sense?
Okay. So in this case, Geshe-la is saying so so it’s it is just a name of isolation of speech. A speech isolation, which is given to the speech isolation. So what Geshe-la says. What does that mean?
I don’t wanna mental isolation You want to know what what it consists of? That so speech isolation is obviously similar, but I don’t Yeah. What does it actually mean? Okay. What is the practice involved?
So then it’s I remember. I just read it today. I just I just remember. So it’s it’s referring it’s referring to so it’s referring to the mantras, okay, which is and so forth. I’m gonna just mention it.
It’s referring to mantras. It’s referring to the speech of the deities. It’s referring to us getting rid of our ordinary of our conception of our ordinary speech and and our grasping to this ordinary speech, and then giving rise to the to the enlightened speech, the speech of the deity and and and this grasping at this enlightened speech instead. So then Gela is saying so then all these all these isolations, they’re referring to the deities. Again, so the the isolation of the body is then is is in relation to abandoning our ordinary appearance and then giving rise to the the form of the deity and then divine pride.
And then the speech, again, give ordinary speech away and then the the speech of the deity, and then the mind also, mind of the deity. Very, very complicated hero. Yes. There’s nothing easy about it, can I say? And then we go to the next paragraph.
Okay? Which again, one step back. One more step back and says, so then such such a yoga such a yoga, if we want if we want to to how do say? If you want to accomplish such a yoga in these stages, such a yoga which releases completely releases the knots in the central channel at the at the level of the of the heart center. If you want to accomplish accomplish it in easy in an easy way, then then it must it it needs to be preceded by the the isolation of the body or by a similar completion stage practice or a completion stage practice of the same type.
Okay? And then and then the the text is is saying that other how do say? The the the release of the knots at the level of the center of the heart is more difficult to accomplish than the knots or other other knots. Okay? And then the the how do you say the this correct me if if I’m wrong, but the bringing the bringing together of the winds at the at the heart center is is no.
What the text is saying, if I translate it literally, okay, is that the the bringing together, the the the gathering together of of winds in other centers, in other centers of, you know, chakras is easier than the gathering of the winds in the heart center. Okay? And then with the next paragraph, and the next paragraph is saying that in order to accomplish such to give rise wait. It’s a complicated structure. In order to give rise to realize that completion stage.
So in order in order to to complete, to give rise in the continuum to to the completion stage, to the to that perfected or perfect complete completion stage such as such as that, that was quoted before in the previous paragraph, then one one needs it needs it needs to be preceded by the meditations and teachings on the four sessions of meditations on the coarse and subtle generation stage, which which serve as the cause for the rise of the completion stage and the realization of the completion stage. And then so and for that and for that for for that generation stage, then one needs complete one needs to attain to obtain a complete empowerment and and one needs to, how do say, protect well once vows and commitments? And then in order to to to be a complete, fully characterized receptacle. Vessel. Vessel.
It’s a vessel of the of of the tantric vows and commitments. So in order to be such a complete being, then one needs to train one needs to train stages in the common in the common stages, which which are the two bodhicittas and and the other practices that come with other practices that come with them. And then again, so then one needs to train in the in the perfection vehicle and the two bodhicittas which are the ultimate and the conventional bodhicitta. This one?