Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. Whether the bliss arising from gazing at, smiling at, or embracing a wisdom consort in the three lower classes of tantra constitutes a path for realising emptiness — this debate anchors the first half of Geshe Pema Tsering’s 77.5-minute commentary. He works through the text’s ruling that taking desire as the path to a special realisation of emptiness is exclusive to highest yoga tantra. He then addresses whether lower tantras bypass the three countless eons of merit accumulation, concluding they do not, though the phrase may denote an equivalent quantity of merit rather than literal aeons of rebirth. The session moves on to map the five paths and ten Bodhisattva grounds onto Action Tantra, and closes with Q&A in which Geshe Pema distinguishes special insight (conceptual, inferential cognition) from the direct non-conceptual realisation of emptiness. Suited to students already engaged in serious Madhyamaka and tantric study.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 04 2005 10 27 G and P.mp3
UUID: 4b1a5241-1081-4cd5-a0f8-ca2266b99051
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: Grounds & Paths (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Date: 2005-10-27
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 77.5 minutes
Words: ~4,361
So now, you should give us a good motivation. And so can I say, we should think, thinking that I must achieve enlightenment in this very lifetime, for the benefit of sentient beings? Now we’re going to engage in the study and practice of this text. And thinking like this, we should give rise to our motivation. So the text is saying, so we have been how to say, the author has been refuting some opponents, right?
So now we go to start with another opponent. So this is some opponents might say that the trainees of the Tantra, they do not need to practice to train in the limitless and various clear realizations of grounds and so forth. I guess — must — did you know what? No. No.
No. Is it? What’s it then? Yeah. Yeah.
For sure. It’s ruptured the line. That’s. So then some opponents might say, right, that in the three lower classes of Tantra, how to say, there is not the way of giving rise to a special object or a special mind, how to say, realizing emptiness by taking desire onto the path as the path. Okay?
So it’s a it’s a beginning of of this to say there’s no matter for this special just by means of taking desire as the path. Okay? So then Gala went on to to say, so some people say that this is not so. So the text in the the Tibetan text is saying this. Some people say that this is not correct to say that.
They say that in the three lower classes of classes of tantra, meditation on the wisdom consort and on the, how to say, looking holding hands or embracing, how to say, meditation meditating on the happiness that arise. There is the meditation on the happiness, on the pleasure, on the bliss that arises from these three actions. So it is smiling at, looking at, holding hands or embracing. So that meditation on the bliss, they say, is for the sake, how to say, of producing of producing this special object or the special mind that realizes. So that okay.
That’s that’s according to the English translation, I suppose. Right? Yes. So okay. So that’s that’s as far as we got.
Okay? So then the text goes on to say that the second the second reason here, the second of of these two, you say, first, says that the lower tantras, they have the, how do say, the arising of bliss by looking or smiling or holding hands or embracing the wisdom consort. Right? So they say that. And then after that, they give a second reason.
They say that the generation of this bliss is for the sake of generating this special mind realizing emptiness. So they said that the second one is not correct. So it goes on to say that the taking of onto the path, the taking of the path, the desire for the sake of giving rise to the special mind that realizes emptiness is is an exclusive characteristic of highest yoga tantra. It’s only there is only a highest yoga tantra. So what again, I’m saying that it is correct to say that in the lower classes of tantra, we have we do use bliss.
We have the meditations and teachings and teachings and teachings and teachings that give rise to bliss by looking, smiling, holding hands, or embracing the wisdom consort. We do have this meditation on lowest tantra, but not for the sake of generating this special mind, which is only generated by taking desire onto the path — that is only in highest yoga tantra. So then again, how to say, this text, which is called it’s translated here in the text as the Illuminating Lamp. It says that taking the desire for the attributes of the desire realm of sense pleasures and so forth for the sake of giving rise to the special mind that realizes emptiness — one does not find it anywhere else but in highest yoga tantra. That’s what the text is, okay?
And I guess this is this accords also with the English translation we have. So then still some other people, some other other debaters might say that the the three blisses that arise from looking at and smiling at and so forth, not being for the sake not being for the sake of not realizing emptiness, and then So they say that so they do not this this how do you say? Three blisses do not realize emptiness because it was stated that this taking this bliss into the path for the sake of realizing the special mind that realizes emptiness doesn’t takes place in the three lower tantras. So if someone says that if someone says that because in the three lower cast of tantra, one does not take desire, I mean, these blisses, these three blisses onto the path, as the path for the sake of generating this special mind, then it follows that these three blisses do not realize emptiness if someone says that. Okay?
The author says such statement has to be investigated. Such assertion has to be investigated. Okay? This is of course with the English translation we have? So then then then the author goes on to say that some some other scholars or authors or other people, they say that this is the case, but the author himself has not seen has not seen stated in the works of of anything stating corroborating this statement.
So he’s not sure. So one should investigate. Investigation is is is, how to say, to investigate and search for this information on the works of So then Okay. So, okay, so that the text goes on to say that in the three lower classes in the the the three lower classes of tantra is is faster. It’s a quicker path than than the paramita yana, the sutrayana, the perfection vehicle.
Perfection vehicle, okay? That’s because based on the power of Deity Yoga and recitation yogas, and they accomplish many, how do you say, common siddhis. Okay? Common powers. Then they are taken under the care of Buddhas and and they are blessed by them.
And by these various skillful means, they accomplish let’s say, they complete the the the means of the accomplishment of the common cities. But it is not how do you say it? It is not a quicker path by means of how to say, taking desire as the path and by means of generating how to say? How do how would you say that? Generating this this special mind, this powerful how to say?
How is the translation that I have here? Greater strengths of discernment. Yeah. It’s not by means of having this greater strength of discernment, not by means of having a greater mind that realizes a more powerful mind that realizes this by means of taking desires apart. So it is quicker.
It is said to be quicker because it’s by by means of the common cities that it accomplishes, but not it is not it is not said that it is quicker by taking by having this strengthening this this mind, this special mind that realize emptiness by taking desires apart. Okay? So then some other opponents might say that it follows that the three lower classes of Tantra do not have to rely on the three countless eons to for the attainment of enlightenment because those three have the characteristic of being quicker than the perfection vehicle. So So then the author is saying that, that reasoning is incorrect, okay, because it is not stated, it is not said that the three lower classes of Tantra how do see? So it it is said that No.
Is said that even though even though the three lower cast of Tantra are quicker path than the than the perfection vehicle, it is not said that it involves attaining enlightenment in one life or that one that they do not depend on three countless to attain enlightenment or that they are faster or that they are faster by not depending on three countless eons. That is not stated. It is stated that it is faster than a perfection vehicle, but it is not stated that it how to say, it depends it does not depend on three countless eons and that it takes enlightenment can be achieved in one lifetime, but it’s not stable. Okay? Are you following or understanding?
I understand the word. It’s a bit confusing. It’s a bit confusing. I was very confused. It’s it’s a it’s a I’ve been discussing this with Gela for some days now.
And so Gela is explaining it because this is difficult point that was difficult for me. He’s asking for you you if you understand. So he’s saying, yes, we have to rely for sure, even in the lower classes of tantra. You rely in three countless eons. And then as and then I bring again one topic that he he brought one of our discussions.
So I said, when we we say three countless eons here, apparently, when they say in Tibetan three countless eons, they could be referring to two two different things. It could be referring to the the need to stay for three countessians or to be, I would say, taking rebirth for three countessians and accumulating the accumulation of merit of three countless eons. But it could be referring just to to this accumulation of merit, which is which is which is an accumulation of merit equivalent to having accumulated merit for three countless eons. It’s the the accumulation of three countless eons. Yeah.
So it depends on this accumulation of three companies, but you don’t and then I ask him and I ask him, but one does not need to stay for three countless eons. Right? We’re talking about this accumulation of three countless eons of merit. Right? He says, yes.
Then then the stages of the tantric path to enlightenment in the stages of the tantric path to enlightenment, it is stated that, how do say, the by the three three lower classes of Tantra, by the practice of the three lower classes of Tantra, one cannot go not relying how do you say, the three lower not relying on the three countless eons for achieving enlightenment is is a characteristic only of the highest order Tantra. So it is in the Guhyasamāja stages of the path states that. And then that in order for the trainees of the three lower classes of Tantra to do so, to achieve, how to say, enlightenment without having to rely on three countless eons, they have to enter the practice, to engage in the practice of the two stages of highest yoga tantra, they cannot do that. Okay? That, I think that’s according to the English translation that we have.
So then, yeah, again, like you’re telling me, so it’s not said that that the three lower cast of tantra do not need to rely on three countless eons. It is not said that one can attain enlightenment in one lifetime for the three by the three by the path of the three lower classes of tantra — this can only be achieved by practicing the two stages of highest yoga tantra. Just said. So then and then it says so because of that, then I’m going to base myself on a translation of Jeffrey Hopkins, which is a little bit more clear than the translation we have. So then hence, do not hold that all features of speed in Mantra are only to become fully enlightened in one lifetime of this era of this era of this degenerate age or without depending on countless eons of practice.
If you read the English version we have, it is not exactly this. What is it? Since the different speed of mantra, therefore so the English translation says, therefore, when debating the difference in speed of mantra, we should not hold just to the attribute of attaining enlightenment in one life or attaining enlightenment not reliant on practice for countless eons. Okay? Did you say fully?
I think fully enlightened in one lifetime. Is that what you said? Yes. Yes. So in the three lower castes of Tantra, by practicing the three lower classes of tantra, one cannot attain enlightenment in one lifetime.
Who who? Yeah. Okay? It’s okay. Everybody’s funny.
I have this this text here that I I got. Okay? And then later I give to you, you can make copies. This this was very helpful for to me, and I bet it will be helpful for you too. So then and then stated that, and then the second part of the statement, which says attaining enlightenment in this life is not established by merely practice practicing the paths of the three lower classes of tantra because we do not have the generation stage of the highest uncommon path of mantra.
This, of course, perfectly with the Tibetan version. This one. This one. Those. So then now we go to next topic, which is the way to posit, the the five paths and ten grounds for for them for the three lower cast of tantra.
Okay? That? So this this should run away. So then it says action tantra, performance tantra, and yoga tantra. For each one of them, there is one way to posit, how do you say, the the five path the five paths and the ten grounds.
Okay? So then for the way to posit the five paths and the ten grounds for the Action Tantra is as follows. So first, the path of accumulation, right? The path of accumulation is having obtained, having gained pure empowerment in Action Tantra Mandala, okay? So from the moment that one has experienced the uncontrived mind, the of having of, how do say, of of having made a full of of promising that one will attain enlightenment, by means of action tantra.
Right? From the from the moment one is experiencing this this this mind of enlightenment that one is going to attain I’m going to attain enlightenment by means of action tantra — one is experiencing this mind in an uncontrived way from this moment until the moment right before one acquires. Right before one, how to say, realizes how to say, has the special insight before one obtains gains the special insight that realizes emptiness by having relied on the concentration that, how to say, grants liberation at the end of sound. So it’s from that moment, one has experienced that’s mind of a contrived mind of enlightenment until, but not inclusive, but not including the realization or the, I would say, special insight the mind that has special insight that realizes emptiness, how do say, by having by means of the concentration, the liberation at the end of sound.
There’s a concentration. Right? There’s a three concentrations in the how do say? Fire sound and and the concentration that grants liberation beyond the sound is a name of a concentration. So by the end of this concentration, one of things this, let me say, this, this special insight, this mind of special insight.
So then the path of preparation is from the moment that one gains that special insight until the moment that one right before one that I would say, right before one directly realizes emptiness by the force of having meditated through the, how to say, concentration that grants liberation at the end of sound. So it’s from the moment one attains special insight until right before one directly realizes emptiness by means of the concentration that grants liberation at the end of sound. What’s the difference between this, special insight and? I will be delighted to ask this question.
I’ve been discussing this today with, and I didn’t get to a conclusion yet, but we’ll get there. You you make notes? Oh, yeah. So then the path of seeing is from the moment you directly realize directly realize emptiness up to the moment, but not including the greater afflictions of the objects of abandon of the path of meditation is arises. Does that make any sense to what I just said?
So from the moment one direct realizes emptiness up to the moment, but not including the moment where this direct antidote to the greater of the greater afflictions of the objects of abandonment of the path of meditation arises, okay? Actually, the path of seeing is actually just one moment, in one moment alone. Yes. This is this is complicated. I know here is very complicated.
I have some some good stuff for you after the class. Very good. Very good. So then now the path of meditation is from the moment is from where the direct antidotes to greater afflictions of the objects of abandonment of the path of meditation arises by means of the concentration that grants liberation at the end of sound until the moment right before until the end of it. Doing We’re So then so in this this tantra, by this action by the action tantra, the paths of Buddhahood are the paths of no more learning of the action tantra, okay?
Usually, we’re going to what time? Ten AM. Ten AM. Eight thirty. Okay.
So those was Mhmm. So we keep on going So then of of those five paths, okay, the the the first Bodhisattva ground corresponds to the path of seeing. Okay? Those second of the second Bodhisattva ground. Okay?
Is that is the second Bodhisattva ground. Okay? So then, Geshe-la is saying, so we are talking about the objects of abandonment of the path of meditation. This is from when we abandon the greater of the greater afflictions of of the objects of abandonment of the path of meditation, then we are in the second ground. So but what is what is the object of abandonment of the path of seeing?
But, I mean, what what would do we abandon in the past of seeing? And I said, it’s the object, what is called the object of abandonment of the path of seeing. And what are these objects of abandonment of the past of seeing is all those wrong views that take, take, I would say, objects to be inherent existent and so forth. So all and all those wrong views are based on it. Yes.
This one. So then and then when one how to say, attains a direct antidote to the middling affliction of the greater afflictions of the objects of abandonment on the path of meditation, then one attains the third Bodhisattva ground. So and then the when one attains the direct antidote to the lesser of the greater afflictions of the objects of abandonment of the past meditation, then one has attained the fourth Bodhisattva ground. Then again, respectively, when one abandons, respectively, the greater middling afflictions and the middling afflictions and the lesser middling afflictions, again respectively one attains the fifth ground and the sixth ground and the seventh Bodhisattva ground. Then and the and the and the when one attains attains the direct antidote, when one simultaneously at once attains a direct antidote for the three lesser afflictions — the greater of the lesser afflictions, the middling of the lesser afflictions, and the lesser of the lesser afflictions — when one simultaneously, all at once, attains the antidotes for these, one attains the eighth Bodhisattva ground.
Okay? And then again, when on the eighth ground, one also abandons the greater obscurations to omniscience, okay? And then when one abandons the middling when one attains the direct antidote to the middling obscurations to omniscience, then one attains the ninth Bodhisattva ground. Okay? So then, again, when one attains the direct antidote to the greater of the lesser obscurations to omniscience, the one attains the tenth Bodhisattva ground.
And when one attains a direct antidote for the subtle, how to say, smaller obscurations to omniscience, lesser obscurations to omniscience, then one, how to say, enters this, let’s see. How does it translate in English? Is this wisdom how do they call call it in English? The wisdom what is it called? And this The problem with problem with the Yes.
This. Where is it? Which page is that? There is primordial awareness of the final continuum. Yes.
Something like this. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then Is it? Oh, yeah.
Okay. And then call it. Call it. Then all this has to be positive like it is stated in the how do you say, Madhyamaka Consequentialist, how do you say, Sūtra, okay? Like the yes, So it is not stated that in any scripture reference that it’s not stated anywhere in the scriptures that the abandonment of the two obscurations, the obscurations to liberation and obscurations to omniscience, the way of abandonment in the of the two obscurations in the three lower tantras differs or varies from the way of abandonment of these obscurations in the perfection vehicle.
So it is not stated anywhere in the scriptures that this is so nor is it established by reasoning. So now the questions — there we go. Lost. Yes, please. Please. So then, said that on this respect, specifically here in relation to the tantric practice, he doesn’t have any experience of of his own.
But what he’s saying is according to his understanding is what he said is that we we all have well, we practice Dharma. We all have to to to refine our minds and more and more make it to get it to sub more subtle subtle and subtle levels. And then at one point, while we’re meditating on emptiness and and we we are talking when we talk about taking desire as the path, we’re not talking only about the mental affliction of desire, but we’re talking about all other mental afflictions, anger, desire, and so forth. And then what Gela says that when they come, when desire comes, then we meditate on the emptiness of desire. When anger comes, and then we meditate the emptiness of anger, and and so forth.
And that is what is meant. That’s what Gela says is meant as by taking desire as the path. Okay? Then I know you have more questions. I know you had you had that that one.
Yes. I do. There was a good one. Yes. Yes.
Direct realization. Yes. So then so special insight. So what is this special insight? When does it come?
How does it come about? So the special insight, going to say is, first, you have to attain this calm abiding. So when you attain the calm abiding, your mind is stable and it’s not wandering, wavering anywhere. And then later, when you start then when you start to apply analysis to your object of meditation, then you will attain there is a very good translation in English for that. What is it?
Pliancy. You have to attain a pliancy of the body and pliancy of the mind. And when you attain this pliancy, there’s there’s going there’s going to follow a kind of bliss related to this attainment from from the body at first and then later from the mind. So at first, you attain this calm abiding. Your mind is stable and not moving.
And then after, when you start applying analysis into the object of meditation, it’s going to come this of the body and then there pliancy of the mind. This is going this this is to come about. When this comes about, that is what is called that you have attained it is the state of special insight. Geshe-la said that is called special insight. That is the the state of special insight.
If you have attended special insight, which is what the So then now the direct realization of emptiness. So first first can I said, so that’s a special insight is still at first is still is still conceptual mind? But then the direct realization of emptiness is is free of conceptualization, and that’s that’s yeah. What characterizes the direct realization is is nonconceptional, free of conceptualizations. That has been attained, that then the the the special insight has been attained.
Yeah. There’s a sign that comes with it. Yeah. It’s Basically, special insight is the conceptual understanding then? At that stage, yes.
I’m not one hundred percent sure of the English translation now. I know where to find it, but, anyway, to share is, if I’m not wrong, if if I’m not mistaken, this mistaken awareness or mistaken mind. And there’s This is like this. I forgot the name. After after the the class, I can I can get the name of this mind for you?
I know exactly where it is. But then there’s this mind, which is a mistaken consciousness. It’s mistaken because it takes the concept of emptiness. And even though it understands the concepts of emptiness and realizes it conceptually, it mistakes that appearance of emptiness for for the emptiness itself. And that’s what what’s the difference.
So is is because it is not directly realizing emptiness, it’s realizing it indirectly through this concept. For a Mental image. Which is which is in this case is the don sprul is the concept. It’s the conceptual. And yeah.
There is a name. I’m give it to you. There is a name for that mind, which is pardon? Conceptual cognition. No.
No. No. This mind this mind that realizes it, something, but conceptually. Is is is there any Inferential. Inferential.
Think that’s the inferential mind. Yeah. Inferential cognition. That’s what it is. It’s right before the direct cognizer.
You have an inferential cognizer. That’s what it is. That’s what we’re talking about. What? And this one.
So then he said, this we’re talking about, it comes about after one has unified calm abiding with analysis. And then that bliss will come about out of that. That answers your question? Yes. Yes?
Okay. Yes? Last question?