Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. Geshe Pema Tsering opens this 45-minute session with the four types of birth recognized in Buddhist cosmology — womb, egg, heat, and magical emanation — illustrating each with specific stories: a king born from heat on his mother’s head, and two monks descended from eggs laid after a shipwrecked man partnered with long-necked birds. He then completes the twelfth link of dependent origination, showing how old age and death together encompass all of saṃsāra including the bardo, and explains how eliminating the ignorance that grasps at a truly existent self cuts the entire chain of rebirth. A Q&A covers three questions: whether Buddhism recognizes destiny (no — karma replaces any creator-ordained plan), whether all beings are destined for enlightenment through Buddha nature, and whether carnivorous plants have consciousness — Geshe-la ruling that anything capable of killing counts as a sentient being.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 02 12L 2004 03 30.mp3
UUID: f7746e36-f075-44d6-a015-e44fea94d3a1
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: DB Twelve Links (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Date: 2004-03-30
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 44.9 minutes
Words: ~3,042
It’s caused by existence, and existence is caused by grasping and so on. But it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re in what’s the word? Chronological order. So there’s four different ways that we can be born, as you said. We can be born from a womb, from an egg, from heat, and from a magical emanation.
Okay. Okay. So it said that humans can be born from all four different types of birth and so can animals. And I said, how’s that? And he goes, just tell them and then I’ll tell you.
Okay, born in Bardo, being reborn in the Bardo, being reborn as a god in a god realm, and being reborn in a hell, all come about through what’s called magical emanation, which basically means that’s where it’s usually translated, but it basically means just appearing. Ghosts and spirits, most of them are reborn in this magical emanation form, which means to appear, but some are actually born from wombs as well. Just Okay, and he just said, okay, this is gonna be difficult for Westerners to believe. He goes they don’t have to believe it, they just have to think about it. Alright, okay so this was supposed to be in order to get rid of like what I was saying about how are humans born from eggs before.
Okay, Apparently in Buddhist scripture it’s accepted that humans can be born in four different ways. I said this would be difficult for Westerners to believe and he said they don’t have to believe it so I’m throwing that in there first. He said that at the end, throw it in there first. Okay, the first one is that humans can be born from magical emanations to come about because in the first eon of existence on earth and existence in other places instead that humans have a much subtler form which doesn’t have the same gross physical form that we now experience. So when beings have this much subtler physical form they don’t need to go through the process of being born from a womb and they just appear based on the causes and conditions that they established in a previous life.
In this much more subtle form they have less delusions and are unable to practice better. It’s the first eon hence we have magical emanations. There’s also examples of Padmasambhava, Gampopa, and other people like that and other people like that who are born magically or by appearing. It’s the first one. The second one about the heat, okay, so there was some guy called, some king, who apparently way back in the day and the Buddha actually told a story with this in it apparently as well.
So this was a long time ago and sorry. There was this woman who had heat on her head or something and then from the heat on her head then someone came about. Okay? So that’s this king, some king. He came about because there was heat on his mother’s head and he appeared.
Now, how humans are born through eggs is because I’m sorry. A long time ago there was a The Buddha told the story about a man who got lost at sea, and when he was lost at sea, then these birds with really long necks that Geshe was seeing on television, They helped the man when he was lost at sea and he actually went to a place where there was no humans left and his partner was a bird. And from this union there came about two eggs and from the eggs came about these two humans which then became very good monks apparently. We have eggs and we know that they’re born from wombs and then from emanations and then from fire because it came from heat from someone’s head. So this is we’re talking about different existences and in different experiences so just because we can’t see them that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t just completely write them off.
There’s different existences apart from ours and so just because we can’t see something or we can’t qualify it in a scientific way doesn’t mean that we can say it definitely doesn’t exist because there’s limitless potential in different existences. In this way then we should perhaps be more reliant on a Buddha’s understanding of what is potentially happening in different places as opposed to what a scientist would say because scientists can only read what’s in front of them and they don’t have the perception to see how karma works and what’s happening in different places. So therefore, based on what a scientist can perceive then they would say that this mark on Geshe-la could say to them so where did this mark on my face come from? Did it come from my parents? They would be able to say well maybe it came from your parents because you have it so maybe it may be something genetic but they couldn’t say for certain whereas if it was a Buddha that was looking at it then because they understand karma properly then they could say okay this comes from this and their perception wouldn’t be limited to the existences that we experience now so they would be able to have a greater understanding of what is actually possible in different places or different realms.
Different human realms. So for animals, it’s said that there’s four different types of birth that can come about as well. They can be born from eggs, can be born from wombs, they can be born from heat, and they can be born from magical emanation. So the twelfth of the twelve links of dependent origination is old age and death. Now, they are usually put together in the twelve links of dependent origination, but if they were put separately, then we’ll make thirteen.
So they could be seen as being separate as well. This twelfth link of old age and death actually covers the whole of existence because from the second moment after conception or after birth, then we start to experience aging. Every experience that we have from the moment of conception up until the moment of death when the subtle consciousness leaves the body is one form or another of aging. From that moment when the subtle consciousness leaves the body up until we take conception again is said to be what’s called the bardo or the experience or the in between stage of death. This means that every experience that we have whether we’re alive or dead is included within this link of old age and death and they link up with each other so death ends when ageing begins and aging ends when death starts.
So this experience where from the second moment after conception we start to experience aging and then after that we experience death and then again after death after conception we experience ageing. So this constant experience of old ageing and death is said to be saṃsāra and it’s said to be the same as the tenth link which is existence. So we go from either we’re either ageing or we’re dead. We’re either ageing or we’re dead. So in the bardo of death, then we experience all manner of different things.
We can experience the suffering of diseases. We can experience happiness. We can experience manifest suffering, the suffering of change, all of these different things that we may experience all happen within the bardo or the in between stage of aging. So, through this process of the twelve of dependent origination, that’s how we come into experiencing saṃsāra and it’s how we come into experiencing suffering. Suffering comes about because of the twelve links of dependent origination.
In order for us to stop the twelve links of dependent origination we need to get rid of its causes. This means that we need to know what it is that we need to get rid of but through not knowing we can continue to go through the experience of the twelve links of dependent origination and therefore continue to experience suffering. So because of this, then we need to look at what is actually the root cause of these twelve links of dependent origination and therefore the experience of suffering. And the root cause of these is the ignorance that perceives an inherent self. If we’re able to get rid of the ignorance that perceives an inherent self that means that we cut off the causes of throwing karma that is the ignorance of self, connecting karma and consciousness.
If we don’t have the ignorance that misperceives things as being truly existent then we don’t perform constructive activities or create connecting karma and we don’t have consciousness which is pervaded by this ignorance and therefore acts as a cause for us to accumulate karma then because of that we won’t develop craving, we won’t develop grasping and we won’t have this idea of existence which is the two karmas coming together. Without those causes then we won’t develop name and form, perceptions, contact, feeling, birth and old age which are the results of those. If we don’t have the causes then we don’t have the results. And so in this way, by getting rid of ignorance, foe destroyers or Arhats or people who have completed the path and gotten rid of negative emotions, stop the causes for the continuance of dependent origination and stop the causes for suffering. So if we’re able to understand ignorance, then we’re able to understand that this sense we have where we say, I, I, I do this and I did this and the grasping attitude that we have towards that I will be destroyed, will be gotten rid of.
If we understand that that I that we refer to isn’t an inherently existent thing then we will cease to perform actions based on the perception or the misperception of that inherently existent I. If we cease to perform actions based on the misperception of that inherently existent I and instead see the emptiness of that inherently existent I or the lack of that inherently existent I then through that wisdom, through that perception we will be able to stop ourselves from creating the causes for experiencing the rest of the links of suffering that bring about suffering. So the the the point is to get rid of ignorance. Oh, yeah. So Geshe-la said he’s gonna drink tea if you wanna ask questions.
Hiro. Sorry? Destiny. I know this is gonna be pushing it, my friend, but can you think of another way to say that? Because there is no word for destiny in Tibetan as far as I’m understood.
You can’t no Tibetan. I’m gonna explain the word, right, and see what comes up, okay? Okay. As far as I understand it, the word destiny, yeah, is reliance on a some kind of external force deciding what is we’re supposed to do and what we’re not supposed to do. Okay, so that’s why I explained it to Geshe-la.
What you are supposed to do in your life. What is your role? What it is that you’re destined to, you’re preordained to fulfill. Okay, Yeah? Alright so that’s why I explained the word destiny.
And Geshe-la said no we don’t accept that because in order to accept that you need a created deity or you need some kind of external force from ourselves which establishes what it is that we should and shouldn’t do. The way that Buddhism works is on the idea of karma cause and effect. Cause result. Alright, so there is no specific destiny that is a preordained thing that we need to do but everything that we do we need to understand that if we do something positive we experience a positive result and if we do something negative we experience a negative result. So if you accept the idea of a created god or some sort of external force that put the world the way it is, then you can have the idea of destiny and that god explains what it is right to do and what it is wrong to do.
In Buddhism this isn’t the case. In Buddhism the law that is in effect is this idea of cause and effect, of karma. It’s not a created god that says, it’s like you should do this and you shouldn’t do that or this is what you need to do and this is what you shouldn’t do. The law of cause and effect is something the Buddha explained, it’s not something that he created or she created. It’s gender neutral in Tibetan.
So it’s not something that they created, it’s something that they explain. So it means that they say, If you do this, then this results and if you do that, then that results. But because it all comes down to karma and this law of cause and effect then there can’t be any idea of you having a big plan that you need to be part of. It has to have a plan. I didn’t say a creator, there has to be a plan.
That’s why I put it together, there has to be a plan. The idea is that it’s fixed. It doesn’t even necessarily have to have a plan. It’s fixed and it’s necessary. But how can you have a fixed without a plan?
So it is life, the cause and effect, bro. Sorry. Can you repeat your question again? Fixed future. Okay.
Yeah. Alright. So in this way Okay, so in terms of a fixed outcome, yes, there is one, right? So a fixed outcome is the idea of a fixed outcome is that what is going to happen right at the end, you know, what is the final outcome of everything? And the final outcome of everything is the complete enlightenment of all beings, Now the reason that we have the complete enlightenment of all beings is because all beings have the cause for enlightenment, that is the Buddha nature.
So that is the final outcome of everything that we’re working towards and at that time that’s okay we don’t have to do any more work then once all beings are enlightened there’s no more work to be done. So in the same way that beings are the positive enlightenment whether it was Śākyamūni Buddha or Milarepa or whoever it was because they had the causes and they actually had the condition of the precious human rebirth which we have as well so that makes our chances better. Because of the causes and the conditions coming together eventually all beings will attain enlightenment. So Because of our ability to understand what it is that we need to do and what it is that we should abandon then that means that because the Buddhas have explained to us the Dharma and continue to explain the Dharma through their compassion that we’re able to put into effect what they’ve taught us and then through that we’re able to develop ourselves, cease to create the causes for suffering and create the causes for happiness and then through continually doing that and finally achieve the end goal and not just us but all beings are able to perform that or to behave in that way.
Yeah. Are you talking about the object or the mind perceiving the object? Does the mind cease to exist? Is the state we have prepared for enlightenment? Oh, okay.
Realizing emptiness directly is something that doesn’t disintegrate or that realisation doesn’t become null. Continues on. Doesn’t ever go away. Attaining Buddhahood after realising emptiness directly isn’t easy. It’s something that needs a lot of work to be put into it.
There needs to be a lot of development of bodhicitta. There needs to be a lot of negative mind states to be gotten rid of through this meditation, through perceiving the emptiness of those mind states etc. Emptiness means that you’re able to do those things more directly but you still need to do a lot of work and a lot of meditations and teachings and teachings and teachings and teachings and teachings and teachings in order to bring about full Buddhahood. Which of the twelve links of dependent origination do plants not have? Did you guys hear that?
Yeah? Because they don’t have consciousness, they’re not said to have any of the twelve links of dependent origination. So they don’t have ignorance, they don’t have connecting karma any of them. That includes the twelve links of dependent origination’s version of birth. They don’t have that.
They have birth, they have generation but it’s not the generation that’s considered in the twelve links of dependent origination. Geshe-la said that they’re not even considered to have feeling in terms of what the feeling is defined here As in the knowledge of not wanting to experience suffering and wanting to experience happiness. The understanding of that. There are certain plants that kill things, that capture flies to eat them, that generate chemicals to kill things that are eating on them, that generate chemicals to recruit moths to come eat things that are eating on them. How can that be explained?
Geshe-la said that anything that has the ability to kill has consciousness, and therefore that plant is not a plant, it’s a sentient being. So there’s many different experiences. So there’s different existences that we don’t understand as being sentient beings. Yeah. If you touch the Venus flytrap, like at the closest.
You’re gonna have to, like I’m a science dropout, So you have to give me the links. But if you touch you, you go like that. Yeah, but does it know that it’s killing? Does a lizard know that it’s killing? They probably does.
Probably. Surmise on your part. I know I have to explain all this. Geshe-la said that although a lizard may not have the ability to say I am killing something or think I am killing something, it has the idea of eating something. Absolutely.
Yeah, and so if this plant is naturally closing when something touches it then it may not have the idea of eating something.