Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. Pride likened to a vase with no mouth — an image for how self-inflation makes learning impossible — opens this 45-minute session in Geshe Pema Tsering’s Four Noble Truths series. He distinguishes two forms of pride: conceit (claiming qualities one doesn’t have) and pride beyond pride (inflating small qualities into supreme superiority over others). He then addresses ignorance in two forms: not understanding karma and cause-and-effect, and the subtler grasping at inherent existence, which he identifies as the root of saṃsāra. Afflicted doubts close the doctrinal portion. A wide-ranging Q&A follows: how to handle insults given that no self inherently exists; distinguishing family care from attachment; and — through a picnic and a scientist-child example — the Tibetan distinction between craving-desire and a simple wish.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 02 4NT 2003 06 16.mp3
UUID: c6f5c5aa-faba-4dcd-ae45-2b833fa450c2
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: DB The four noble truths (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Date: 2003-06-16
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 45.1 minutes
Words: ~3,821
So the next negative emotion that we have to try and get rid of and that causes suffering for us is pride. We’ve gone through attachment of desire and anger, now we’re up to pride. Pride is incredibly bad. Pride is something that stifles us, that stops us. Geshe-la said that they have an expression that pride is like a rock without a mouth that you can’t pour water into.
It’s like a an expression which is difficult to translate, but basically, it turns a vase into a lump without a mouth that you can pour water into. Alright. Does that make sense? So is it if someone has pride then they don’t take anything in because they they think they know everything so they’re not gonna listen to anybody else.
So, because they’re not gonna listen to anyone else, because they’re not gonna learn anything, then they can’t actually be of help to anyone else and they can’t improve. So they actually have not only become developed the fault of not developing but they developed the fault of telling other people things that are wrong because they haven’t listened in order to learn. But they think they know so they tend to tell other people. So the other thing with pride is that it causes other people not to like you. Geshe-la said if someone is incredibly proud and is walking around and everyone’s like, man, I don’t like that guy.
I would know oh, he he’s not the boss of me. Or she he or she isn’t the boss of me and they develop this sense of I think like, he was literally saying, trying to trip them up. Other people tend to look down on people with pride because they don’t have any respect for them because they they they think they’re they’re better than they are. So the two different the two different excuse me, the two main different types of pride, are usually described as the pride of conceit and the pride beyond pride. Now, the pride of conceit is this idea that someone has that they have qualities that they don’t actually have.
They they don’t have something but they think, yeah, I I’m I’m able to do that. I’ve got that understanding or I know how to do that and they actually don’t. They just they’re just making it up to make to thinking that they have got it, so they tend to get it in very inflated sense of self thinking that they’re able to do things that they have certain abilities or they have certain certain knowledge and they just don’t have it at all Now the other type is this, pride beyond pride which is someone may have a little little quality or little, positive quality but then they think that they’ve got this amazing positive quality that they that we think that, how that our learning or our abilities are beyond anybody else’s and that person over there may know something but I know way more than them, they may be able to do something but I can do it way better than can. And so it’s this, definite inflation that’s, like, inflation itself to, like, an extreme degree, of thinking that, that that the are way more important or advanced or superior to anybody else’s. So that was pride.
The next one is ignorance. Now, are many different things that we can be ignorant about but usually when they’re referring to the six root negative mental states or six negative emotions, ignorance is usually said to be ignorance with respect to suchness or the true nature of reality and ignorance with respect to cause and effect. Obscuration or ignorance with respect to cause and effect is when people don’t understand or don’t know that a positive action will have a positive result and a negative action will be, will have the result of experiencing suffering they don’t realize that there is a direct relationship between cause and effect and they don’t understand that means that they have to create positive causes when they have no understanding of this concept then with regards to cause and effect then they have this like obscuration or ignorance So, the other type of ignorance is ignorance with respect to suchness or the nature of reality. Now, what this is referring to is ignorance with respect to suchness or ignorance with respect to the way that things actually exist as being labeled as opposed to thinking that they inherently exist is a synonym of grasping at true reality so the two things mean the same things you can describe it negatively saying that it’s the ignorance of the way things actually exist or you could say it’s ignorance grasping at true reality now these two things are synonymous. Synonymous. Synonymous. What is that spice?
Cinnamon! Now, there’s two different types of this grasping itself there’s what’s called the self of phenomena or the essence of phenomena and grasping at the self of persons according to all the different tenet schools all the different philosophical systems presented by the different proponents of different philosophical systems there’s many types of of this grasping at self or grasping at this grasping at the inherent existence of phenomena so for example the autonomous school presents this idea of the truth of the lack of inherent existence of phenomena being the selflessness of phenomena and the lack of inherent existence of of of beings as being the lack the selflessness of the person and that their explanation of what the selflessness of the person and the explanation of what the selflessness phenomena is is different to what the consequentialists present as being the selflessness of the person and the selflessness of phenomena so with regards to any of those whether it’s those two different schools or the other tenet schools or the other philosophical systems not understanding one of those things is one type of ignorance ignorance with regards to suchness so you can have many different types of ignorance with regards to suchness or with regards to the selflessness of the person and phenomena So, this ignorance with regards to suchness is actually what’s called the root of saṃsāra or the cause, the main cause of saṃsāra.
If you get rid of this ignorance with regards to suchness then you realize then you are liberated from suffering that’s the cause for being liberated from suffering and hence the cause for experiencing suffering is this ignorance that grasps at true existence the two things negate each other hence if you realize suchness or you realize the lack of inherent existence of phenomena then you at the same time obliterate the self-grasping at phenomena the two things are mutually exclusive so in order for us to get rid of suffering then we need to get rid of grasping at true existence which means that we need to realize suchness when we realize suchness means we also realize the emptiness of phenomena, that is the emptiness of inherent existence of phenomena. Other another type of negative way of thinking is what’s called afflicted doubts, or doubts tending towards the afflicted or negative ways of thinking so the definition of is a doubt is a is okay it’s easier in Tibetan the definition of a doubt is a mind with two horns that doesn’t really work does it? A mind with a it’s being in two minds is having two concepts to think is it or maybe it is maybe it isn’t that idea maybe it is maybe it isn’t is the definition of a doubt so for example if we’re trying to figure out if past and future lives exist then we think maybe they do and then we think wait a minute I haven’t seen them maybe they don’t alright so this idea of maybe they do maybe they don’t is what we’re talking about with doubts now and then some people have doubts tending towards one way some people have doubts tending towards another way and other times because of this doubting mind when someone tells us something then we’ll sway towards what they’re saying so if someone says to us there is there is past and future lives and we go oh yeah there is past and future lives we have doubt will tend towards that and someone comes up and says wait a minute no there’s not have you seen them then we think oh maybe there’s not past and future lives and our mind swings back towards this one so being in two minds about something having this idea about two different having two thoughts about one thing is what’s called doubt So, afflicted doubts or these negative doubts can be something that stops us from being able to progress along the path.
If we feel we have doubts with regards to something, then we need to analyze until those doubts have been cleared away. So for example if we have doubts about the concept of refuge of taking of going for of thinking that the Buddha, Dharma, Sangha whatever it is is our source of refuge is able to help us from experiencing suffering. So if we have a doubt about that then we need to analyze until that doubt has ceased to exist so we follow this process all the way through but in fact doubts are something that is very difficult to get rid of In fact, after people have realized the true nature of reality, seeing emptiness directly, they still have doubts. You can’t get rid of doubts from the root until almost at the stage of being a complete Buddha. So they’re a very difficult thing to get rid of.
But in terms of what we are supposed to do in terms of becoming better people trying to work towards enlightenment, then we need to look at things on an individual basis and think, in order for me to become a Buddha or an enlightened being then I have to get rid of negative things which are going to have negative causes and I have to practice positive things which are going to have positive results and work along the path in this way so if we have doubts about doing something like that then those doubts aren’t going to help us very much. So we have to develop in our mind a certainty and try and let go of the doubts about things or work through the doubts about things in order to keep focusing on the path Okay. So we’ve got one more week in the course. We’re gonna stop there. Right?
We’ve got one more week in the course, but Geshe-la’s going to Bendigo in the next week. So he’s not gonna be here next week. So it’ll be the week after next because he has to go to Bendigo. So sorry about that. He doesn’t get back till Tuesday next week because there’s a big thing happening in Bendigo.
But yeah. So we’ve got still got afflicted views or negative views left to go. So that’ll be the week after next because it’s yeah. Without him here, it’d be very difficult. But if anyone and if you have questions, please ask them now.
There’s a surprise. So just to make sure I’m getting on the right Mhmm. The right thing here. If someone or someone I label as someone, because they have no inherent self, comes up and insults me Mhmm. Because, you know, you’re ugly Yeah.
I feel that it hurts my pride, and that makes me feel angry towards them. But since I have no inherent existence or inherent self, what is there to be angry about? Because someone who really doesn’t have any inherent self is insulting someone who else has no inherent self. So there’s nothing insulting nothing. So why should I feel upset about it?
It’s sad? Uh-huh. So the idea is if someone is thinking about that, first of all, remember that the thing they said is merely labeled as well. And then the first and the other thing is if someone is abusing you is to think okay this isn’t that person abusing me they are under the influence of negative emotions so if I have a problem with something it should be that. It’s not that person, it’s that they’re like a slave or a servant to their negative emotions and hence they’re saying this.
Therefore you should practice patience with it. So if you think about it well or if you think clearly about it then the thing that you should be getting angry at is the negative emotion. No. You’re definitely allowed to protect yourself. You’re just not allowed to get angry at the person that’s gonna harm you.
So if you’re not angry at the person that’s going to harm you and you can find a way to protect yourself without having anger then that’s fine so if you’re not angry then you will think about ways to stop them from harming you without necessarily hurting them Attachment or protection and care. Is that what you said? No, that’s right. What I’m saying is that the parents have to protect them. To their children.
Right. Okay. Okay, so yes, you’re allowed to have a family, yes, you’re allowed to care for your family, yes, you’re allowed to work in order to be able to help your family. But, no, you shouldn’t be ever overly attached to your family. So you should be checking that what you’re doing is in fact in order to benefit them and it isn’t coming from a sense of attachment.
Yeah. So if you look at it then, you look at the thing that you’re attached to and then you should think, okay, why am I attached to this thing? In actual fact, attached to something or having desire towards that isn’t going to do me any harm. It’s not going to make me happy. It’s going to be a cause for me to achieve to experience more suffering in the future.
So there’s no point in me going to even be getting attached to this. It’s not going to last forever. It’s not going to give me ultimate happiness. So what’s the point? Okay.
So you gotta stop it getting bigger and try and make it smaller. Yep. Sure. Yeah. Wrong language.
Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. What?
Why did they wanna become a scientist? Sorry because it’s your metaphor but I think that’s the distinction. Okay, so in actual fact, the desire that this being has had to become a scientist is still desire, right? And it’s still something to be abandoned. But it’s not something that’s a very, very negative desire.
There’s different degrees of negative desires and different degrees of what is to be abandoned. It wouldn’t be something that you consider a gross a grossly negative desire because it does have these benefits. These benefits to her beings and everything like that so it’s not one of the first things that you would look to abandon if you’re trying to abandon desires alright but and I say okay what about if this kid is saying when I grow up I want to be scientist so I can help people and by the merit I accumulate from helping people I want to achieve Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings and Geshe-la said you think kids think that and I said okay this is like a very exceptional kid and he said okay if the kid thinks that then everything that they do becomes a virtuous thing and it isn’t from desire. They have a different word for that in Tibetan which was like more like a wish as opposed to the having the attached aspect to desire which desire has so they have a wish instead of attachment so you can still call desire I guess difficult so yeah the wish as opposed to attachment then everything that they did was positive and even if they did it in order to attain a good rebirth or to attain a liberation there would all be a positive but that would all be all be positive work whatever work they did with that was their motivation it would make that work positive but most of the time people don’t usually have that as their motivation they want to become famous they want to become successful they want to get money so if all of those things are there in motivation then then that’s not a positive thing it’s not a positive, motivation and therefore it’s not a positive action but because it’s helping beings and it’s not as heavy as most things then, it’s not as negative a desire as other ones can be How is your actual thinking hard?
Did you guys all hear that? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So it doesn’t necessarily follow that to be enjoying yourself, it has to be that happiness or enjoyment has to be attached to desire.
Right? Because people who have gotten completely rid of desire and still enjoy themselves all the time. They’ve established themselves in a in a continually happy state. But for us, for people who haven’t had this realization, who haven’t seen the the true nature of reality and they’re trying to work with their minds here, then most of the time, Geshe-la said, if you watch, then you won’t be able to separate happiness from desire. You will be desiring to be to be happy even if it’s for one moment.
Yeah. So so this this is like monk examples, but if you’re having a picnic, right, and you’re really and you’re enjoying yourself, you’re hanging out with your friends, you’re eating food, and it’s really fun. And you think, well, I don’t care if I never have a picnic again in my life but I’m enjoying this that’s still attachment because you’re attached to enjoying yourself at that time you’re attached to your friends being there you’re attached to the fact that you’re having fun you’re attached to the fact that that you’re you’re having enjoyable food all that’s coming about yeah so there’s still this grasping at that right? But if you work at it hard and you develop analysis like the ability to analyze situations and cease, start pulling yourself away from being attached to things and actually enjoy not doing anything like enjoy doing meditation enjoy being able to focus on, like religious practices or spiritual practices or whatever then there’s something that actually has a positive outcome, yeah, as oppose to something that isn’t going to get better and better. Okay right so the differentiation between it is that if you have something that’s going to have a positive outcome yeah then that isn’t attachment alright that’s enjoyment alright if you have something that is not necessarily gonna have an a positive outcome if something that’s going to be a state for you to grasp more then that is attachment alright so Geshe-la said if you watch if you spend a day meditating and doing nothing else but meditate for a day and you get happy he said so there is this sense of and you have this like pleasant state of mind he said you should try it if you do this for a day then you’ll feel happy but it will be something that doesn’t necessarily create grasping alright so it’s something that would be happy but won’t lead to suffering so therefore it’s not an attachment it’s a happy state So if you don’t have attachment, you’re actually happy.
If you care, then you’re actually happy. So so it depends on the object of the happiness whether something is is attachment or if it’s just enjoy if it’s like a virtuous enjoyment. Alright? So if the object is something that’s not stable and isn’t going to create more positivity in the future, then it’s attachment. If the object is something that’s going to create more happiness, then it’s it’s well enjoyment but it’s all that wishing thing that’s the gotta come up because they have one word for and one word for like the wish yeah it depends on the he said it again depends on the object.
Depends on the focus. So I was just having an argument about whether all songs come under speaking, come under the, not an argument. I was just I wouldn’t argue. I was just saying, what about What’s the word? Lovely.
So about whether all songs come under the, the non virtue of speaking rubbish or not. Alright? And I was just saying that some some songs actually have powerful messages that aren’t necessarily speaking rubbish. And Geshe-la said, yeah. But then it depends why you’re listening to these songs which have which have powerful messages or not.
Whether you’re listening to it because you just like enjoying yourself or whether you’re listening to it to learn something or to change the way you think. Right? So he said it depends on so if we’re taking a song that doesn’t really have any powerful meaning in it. Yeah? And we’re just listening to it because it sounds good.
Yeah? In that case, then that’s that’s that’s still attachment because you’re grasping at the idea of that song being a pleasant song when it’s not inherently a pleasant song. It’s your it’s your superimposition onto the song. Right? It’s not inherently a good song.
It’s your super therefore, because of the the object that you’re taking as your as your attachment, then it’s still a not not a positive thing and will will not lead to experiencing true happiness. It’s still a cause for creating suffering because if you didn’t have a song then you’d be miserable. If however, you’re listening to a song or something that will act as a cause for you to be able to experience a true happiness and be able to liberate yourself from suffering alright so if it’s something that can instruct you in some way or in some depending on it depends on your motivation then it’s not attachment. So it’s it’s attachment. And we say attachment and when we say wish, we don’t really have the distinction in English whether, like, one of them is negative and one of them is positive.
And the words in Tibetan is like, okay. As soon as you say this one, it means something negative. And as soon as you say the other one, it means something positive. So, yeah, so it makes it difficult. Does that mean can can the concepts of Buddhism themselves be an object or an object object or desire?
Okay. Can Yeah. Sure.