Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 44-minute talk, Geshe Pema Tsering opens with a pointed question: can anger, desire, and ignorance be completely uprooted from the mind, or only temporarily suppressed? His answer draws on the Buddhist view that the mind is by nature merely clear and knowing — all negativities are adventitious stains arising only from causes and conditions, not intrinsic to mind. He distinguishes two aspects of that nature: conventionally clear light, ultimately empty of inherent existence. A wide-ranging Q&A covers the Tibetan distinction between desire and wish; applying antidotes to desire using the example of wanting a car; why compassion is limitless while desire is not; the subtle mind’s continuation after death carrying karmic imprints toward future rebirth; and the Buddhist concept of self as merely labeled rather than an inherently existent soul. Conversational in tone, suited to practitioners with some background in Buddhist philosophy.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 02 MP 2003 05 06.mp3
UUID: d200b843-4eaf-43b1-8f74-3a8b7ec1fddd
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: DB Mind and its potential (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Date: 2003-05-06
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 44.0 minutes
Words: ~3,521
So there’s also this argument, or these two different ways of looking at things, which the argument on one side asks on one side states that we can completely remove anger and ignorance and desire from our minds. The other side says that we can only subdue it for a time and then it will come back. Now, from a Buddhist perspective, that agrees with the first position. Buddhist philosophy, it says that we can get rid of all the anger, desire, and attachment from our mind completely. So because Buddhism states that we can get sorry.
The reason that Buddhism states that we can get rid of all of these of these negative mind states is because if our mind is by its nature clear and knowing. Now because our mind is by its nature clear and knowing, this means that those negativities are like stains on that mind. That mind doesn’t have any aspect to it apart from knowing and being clear of things. Therefore, having a clear aspect. Of the delusions that we have in our mind stream, any of the hatred, any of the ignorance, any of the attachment is actually a stain on that on its natural state, a stain on its its nature, on the mind’s nature, and therefore, it can be it can be removed from the mind.
It is said that these stains are what’s called adventitious, so if you don’t have the causes and the conditions for them to come about, then they don’t come about. They’re not in the true nature of the mind. They’re not intrinsic in the mind, and therefore, they can be removed. Therefore, also, that means that the conventional nature of the mind is what’s called a is called clear light. That’s what its nature is.
So the truth is divided into two different aspects in Buddhist philosophy. There’s what’s called conventional truth and ultimate truth. Now, from the point of view of conventional truth, which is what we mainly experience, then the true nature of mind is this clear light. It’s something that’s free from all stains, this clear light from the conventional point of view. From the ultimate point of view, true nature of mind is that it is free of inherent existence, empty of true existence.
So the reason that it is argued that the mind doesn’t actually have anger, delusions, etcetera, in it inherently is that it’s not they’re not there all the time. If we don’t have the causes and the conditions for anger to come about, then anger doesn’t come about. If we don’t have a cause for desire, then we don’t experience desire. If we don’t have causes and conditions for pride, we don’t experience pride. So all of these things actually only come into our mind.
We only actually think about these things or have these types of mind mind states when there’s a cause for it. So if something existed inherently in our mind, they’d be there all the time. Then we would have these types of of consciousnesses all the time. We would constantly be thinking desirous thoughts. We would constantly be angry.
We’d constantly be experiencing hatred, but they don’t happen all the time. So this is used as proof that they don’t inherently exist in the mind and that they are only like stains on the mind that occur based on causes and conditions adventitiously. So these types of afflictive emotions or negative emotions don’t abide in the mind all the time. They’re not in the true nature of the mind. The true nature of the mind is only clear and knowing.
Because it’s clear and knowing, it can have the aspect of anger. Can have the aspect of compassion, any of these things. The only thing we can say about mind or consciousness that can be used as a definition for all minds and all consciousness is that it is both clear and knowing. That’s the only thing that is is can act as a definition for for all of these for for all different types of consciousness and and mind. So, yeah, so we can see that anger, desire, attachment, all these things, pride, any of these emotions don’t come about with no cause in our mind.
We don’t get angry at nothing. We get angry at a person. We get angry at an object. We get angry at an animal. Get angry at a situation.
We don’t get angry at nothing. We don’t have desire for nothing. We have desire for something, a person, an animal, or a thing. That sounded strange. So so then we can see that these things have to come about based on causes and conditions.
They have to to come about because of something. They don’t exist naturally in our mind. So what happens when we have these experiences of anger and desire and attachment, that means that they’re actually like stains on the actual true nature of mind. The actual true nature of mind that is experiencing anger and attachment and ignorance is still clear and knowing, but it’s like it’s got stains on it. The clear and knowing state of the mind is actually obscured by the stains on it, but they’re all different minds still have this nature of being clear and knowing, the nature that they take on different aspects and they have different stains on them sometimes.
So the reason that this So the true nature of all these different minds is that they are clear and known. But in the instances of these negative emotions, what comes about is that superimpositions are placed onto a real situation, so therefore, even though situations can’t actually hurt the mind stream because people perceive it to be able to hurt the body, then they say, Okay, this person is going to hurt me, and therefore I feel angry at them, for instance, and that is that they’re putting a superimposition onto the situation. Now, there’s two different types of superimposition. Either they take a situation that may be there and exaggerate it, or if situation is completely not there, then a delusion, if you like, is made up where a situation is perceived to exist that doesn’t actually exist at all. So all instances of anger, desire, and attachment are basically made up by the mind in order for them to come about because the true nature of the mind is still clear and knowing.
So if we can stop there and ask some questions, if anyone has any questions. So, yes, these are things that are actually superimposed onto a situation. And the reason that this is said is because the more that you meditate on on compassion, the more you meditate on loving kindness, then the larger these things become, the more reliable these things come and the more happiness that they can bring you. No matter how much you meditate on desire, you’re never going to end up with a happy situation at the end. It’s not going to become broader and broader and give you more happiness and peace of mind.
So if something is limitless, so for example, compassion is limitless and can increase and increase and increase and cause more happiness and more happiness, then it’s not considered something that’s superimposed. It’s considered a natural way of being and something that’s reliable, that doesn’t have an end. Yeah. It’s limitless. Yeah.
I think that this is a translation thing as well. There’s two different words in Tibetan that you could translate both of them as a desire or maybe no. Hang on. If we say there’s one that’s a desire and there’s one that’s a wish, and the word that’s being translated as desire is something that’s negative and something that should be gotten rid of. Right?
And so there’s this other word that we would say if we translate it as wish. Yeah. Alright? So wishing to attain enlightenment in this definition can’t be a desire because a desire is a negative thing. So you would wish to attain enlightenment and desire a car.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it all comes down to, like, focusing on what you’re thinking and understanding what’s going on in your mind. And so if something is negative and is gonna cause you harm, stop it.
And if something’s positive and it’s gonna cause you happiness, practice it, encourage it. It’s not necessarily a matter of of splitting your mind. It’s it’s make making sure you know what’s going on in your mind. So you you know when you have feelings of desire. So that it’s not something that just happens and is gone without you realizing that you know it’s actually happening.
So for example, if you have these feelings, then you can understand how to apply the antidotes to them. So for example, if you really want a car and you think, I really want the car, the thought comes strong in your mind, then you have to think, Okay, this car is only going to benefit me temporarily. It’s not going to benefit me ultimately. What it’s going to do is to encourage a pattern of desire in my mind, which is difficult to stop and which will encourage me to to want more and more, and so therefore create more suffering for me in the long run. So I have to understand that this car isn’t really all I’m thinking it is, and and it has a lot of faults, and it doesn’t last forever and apply this antidote in this way.
And, therefore, you stop the patterns in your mind towards desire and things like that. But it’s it’s it’s knowing what your mind’s thinking, but not necessarily separating out the knower from the known. Yeah. So I I think I missed something in It’s okay. It’s alright to have a car because you have to get places.
And if you don’t have a car, it’s difficult to get places. But what you have to understand is that having a big attachment to the car, a big desire for the car doesn’t help you. It doesn’t there’s no point to being overly attached to your car. There’s no purpose to being overly attached to your car. So, therefore, because it doesn’t help you, then there’s no point thinking like that.
So if you weigh it up, the good points and the bad points to having a car, then you probably see the bad points outweigh the good points. You can get around, but you have bills to pay, and there’s these problems with the car, and it doesn’t last forever. And ultimately, you can’t drive a car to nirvana, so therefore, it really can’t help you in the end. You have to think about what it is that you’re actually afraid of, to isolate what it is that you’re actually afraid of, and then to analyze to see if there is actually anything to be afraid of there because there isn’t really anything that you should be afraid of. So once you’ve isolated the thing that you are afraid of, then you have to understand that that isn’t anything to be afraid of, and therefore the fear will go.
So if there is actually something to be afraid of, then you should be afraid. But if there’s nothing to be afraid of, and you can see that there’s nothing to be afraid of, then you have to think, well, there was no point to that, and let go of that fear. Yeah. The knowing is the actual nature of mind. So it’s something that is where where there’s mind, there’s knowing.
The two things come together. So it’s either says an aspect of mind or it’s it’s it’s there’s an expression in nature, which I’m still not sure what it means. There is so it it it comes along with mind. When there’s where there’s mind, there’s knowing. So another way that they say it is that it’s merely clear and knowing.
So that means that it’s that’s the that’s the of mind. There is nothing nothing else in mind. There is no water in mind. There is no there is there is no solid objects in mind. Mind is just clear and knowing.
There’s nothing else to it. You look like you had the question before the gone. So this knowing means that it has the ability to perceive. So whether it perceives smell, whether it perceives a conceptual There’s two different types of perception: perception and conceptuality. So it could perceive smell, it could perceive form, it can perceive sounds, and it can also conceive of things.
That ability is what this means. So there’s Okay. So there’s five different types of knowing. That is the five consciousnesses. There’s also a sixth consciousness, which is mental consciousness.
Right? So that’s what is the different types of knowing. Six five physical, one mental. Yeah? Yeah.
So and then on top of that, wisdom, what’s usually translated as wisdom is a word that’s is jnana in Sanskrit or yeshe, and it means having a realization. That’s what that would be. So there’s difference between knowing and a realize realizing something. The word wisdom, the translations go backwards and forwards, but wisdom is is a synonym for a path or an understanding or realization in the mind. Yeah.
Is that okay? Finish. Finish. I don’t know. Yeah.
He said he doesn’t know for absolute whether those two things can actually accord because there could be some arguments that say they could accord and others say they don’t. But the presentation in Buddhism of the different minds or what mind is, is that there are five different types of six different types of mind, sorry, and five of those are based on consciousness. So therefore, you have the the mind of touch, the the of touch, that goes all everywhere in the body. Anywhere that you can experience touch, that is where mind is. If you have a sense of smell, then that’s related to the main mind that’s associated with the sense of smell.
If you smell something, that’s related to that. Wherever there is consciousness and understanding that, therefore, there is mind there. So maybe the main point, the root of all these different minds, the the root of of these consciousnesses is the brain. Maybe it’s not. He doesn’t know.
Yeah. So according to Buddhist philosophy, once the body dies, the mind takes rebirth in another body and and and continues cycle of existence. But what we have to understand is the mind at that stage is a lot more subtle than the mind that we experience now. The mind that we experience now is connected to our body. Therefore, wherever the body is, there is mind there, and that means it takes on a much more gross form.
It actually has physical form as well as a subtle aspect. When the body dies, the subtle mind is not no longer in the body and moves on to it a next in the next life to create a new body. Yep. So it doesn’t actually have afflictive emotions in their gross form as the way that we experience it, but it has the influence of afflictive emotions. What they actually say is that this mind is what’s called wind mind, but it’s not wind.
It’s kind of wind. A very, very, very subtle type of wind. So that mind carries the imprints negative emotions, but doesn’t actually have the gross form of negative emotions. So this this subtle mind, if we’ve if it’s being conditioned into a positive positive mode and it has positive imprints on it, then it will go towards a positive rebirth. It will create the causes to have a positive rebirth.
If it has been conditioned, on the other hand, towards anger, attachment, and negative emotions, then these imprints of negativity on this subtle mind stream will create a negative future rebirth. Yeah? I just want to talk about reality. It doesn’t exist as we know it, and We have to start from from the point of view that it doesn’t exist the way we think it does, and then it’s very difficult for us to actually understand how it does exist. So therefore, we start from the point of view, okay, it doesn’t exist quite the way we think it does, and then we do a lot of study and meditation in order to understand how it does exist.
In other words, if you’ve got a spare five years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh.
Yeah. Okay. So whether you’re actually suffering or not in your job depends on which way you’re looking at your job. So you actually need money. If you don’t have money, don’t eat.
Right? So if you you look at it from that perspective and think, this job is actually giving me money, and I’m very glad to be getting the money, then your perspective can change on the job on on what the job is. Yeah. And what the job means is what yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Because actually whether you’re happy in your job or not and whether it’s benefiting benefiting you or not depends on your attitude towards your job, depends on your motivation for working. So if you have a positive motivation for working, then it won’t be a cause for suffering. He said if your boss is a bully then that’s a really good opportunity to practice patience and if you’re practicing patience you’re doing yourself a lot of good yeah incredibly difficult to come back as a human after you’ve been reborn as an animal. There’s only very it’s possible, but there’s a lot more animals than there are humans.
So that means that there’s a lot more people who haven’t had the opportunity to come back as a human that do keep coming back as an animal. It’s very difficult to get a rebirth as a human after you’ve gone into the lower realms. So some people that take rebirth as in an animal or in the lower realms actually did a lot of positivity positive things before they got reborn there. So by the power of that, they can still be reborn as a human later. But it’s it’s very difficult once you’re born into the lower realms because all you’re doing is is creating negativity or creating negative mind streams to to actually achieve a human rebirth after that.
He he said he doesn’t know why other religions would say that that was a soul. You’d have to ask them. Okay. So in other the only one that there’s really a reference to in Buddhist teachings is is the Hindu belief in the the atma. Yeah?
So that in cases like a person or a being. So in Buddhism, there are two different types of beings. One type of being, they say, there’s a being or a sentient being is another word for it or a a continuum, a mind continuum. Yeah? These things are recognized as as being a self.
Yeah? But what isn’t recognized isn’t an inherently existent self, a truly existent self. The self in Buddhism only comes about when the causes and a lump of causes and conditions are labeled, and that’s all there is. There isn’t anything from inside coming out. So you have a lump of cause and conditions, a label.
Yes, it’s usually aggregate, but I’m translating it as lump tonight. All right? Okay. And then you get the and you get a label on that, and that’s that’s what is considered a person, but it’s a merely labeled person. And that’s why they say it’s it’s not called a soul because a soul is an inherently existent thing.
Is it truly existent? It’s not inherently existent. It’s it’s it’s it means that it doesn’t come about from its own side. It’s like there’s all these causes and conditions and they have a label on them.
And that’s why in some traditions, that’s considered in those traditions, that continuous thing is considered an a truly existent thing, something that’s eternal. No. Then it it actually just eternal and unchangeable because there’s this word in Tibetan that means eternal, but it actually means eternal and unchangeable, and it’s usually translated as eternal or permanent. So, yeah, sorry. There’s crossover Because they’re responsible for their ignorance, then they’re responsible for their actions.
Dogs we’re a bit like dogs in some ways because we have this sense of I want to eat and we go and eat. But the difference is that we can differentiate between how we’re eating and with what mind we’re eating. So the dog is ultimately responsible for its rebirth as a dog, therefore it is responsible for its actions. He said, if you keep thinking I don’t wanna be a then that’s a good thing. Yeah.
Yeah. So is that okay? No. So, yeah, if things get better.