Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. Idle chatter, Geshe Pema Tsering argues in this 45-minute commentary, is the hardest of the ten non-virtuous actions to give up — not because it is severe, but because we never recognise it as harmful. He works systematically through all ten: stealing and sexual misconduct (body), then the four of speech — lying, slander, harsh words, and idle chatter — then the three of mind: covetousness, malicious intent, and wrong views. Wrong views receive the most weight: unlike anger, which destroys accumulated merit, wrong views block new positive karma from forming at all. A lively Q&A follows on whether motivation determines karmic destination (samsaric happiness versus liberation), the difference between setting intention before an action and dedicating it afterward, and whether a passing wish to become enlightened counts as genuine aspiration. Suited to students working through karma in a Lamrim context.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 06 DB K 2003 11 11.mp3
UUID: 8166760f-8edc-4465-8074-d6de7230114a
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: DB Karma (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Date: 2003-11-11
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 44.9 minutes
Words: ~3,465
Results from stealing mean that no matter how hard we work and whatever we do, in this lifetime, we may have gotten say if we stole one hundred dollars we may have the result of having one hundred dollars for a bit, but that means for the rest of this lifetime we are constantly if we are continually stealing then we constantly have a sense of fear and in future lifetimes when we are trying to get things, we’re trying to work towards achieving things that will experience the negative results of those actions and actually gathering or collecting material things will be very, very difficult for us so that’s the results of stealing. Now the results of sexual misconduct in this lifetime if we go around treating people disrespectfully because of lust, because of just using them then that obviously has results in this lifetime that will be harmful to ourselves because of how we will be disrespected and so forth and also in the future if we’ve been overcome by our desires in this perpetual fashion then it’ll be difficult for us to be able to deal with to have control over those desires and also the result the end result is experiencing ugliness of some form if we’ve treated other people ugly ugly uglily in an ugly manner then as their result we will experience in the future we will experience ugly results.
So these three things all have negative outcomes and we don’t understand the negative outcomes and the positive attributes of abandoning them and that’s why we continue to do them. Okay. Right. Now there’s the four non virtues of speech. The first of the four non virtues of speech is lying.
Usually, the worst form of lying is said to be to say that you have realizations or you’ve understood something about reality when you don’t. Now that is, for example, saying that you understand emptiness, you’ve developed a realization of emptiness when you haven’t. So that’s the worst form of lying, but there’s other types of lying that we tend to indulge in in many different ways. So that is to say something is when it isn’t, isn’t when it is, is there when it isn’t, and isn’t there when it is. All of these different ways that we can try and that we can try and confuse people and lead people astray are all all said to be lying.
The second one is slander or making people not like each other who are friends. It’s the second type of verbal misconduct. So that is when two people get on well and are friends if you say bad things to each of them to make them not like each other, then that one’s that’s the second misconduct of speech. The third misconduct of speech is to use harsh words with people, to yell at people in an abusive manner and, yeah, to use words that make them upset, to speak in harsh ways to people. The fourth non virtue of speech is one that Geshe-la thinks is difficult to do, is not to talk rubbish, not to sit around telling stories speaking pointlessly.
Now the reason that this is difficult to do is because it’s really hard to recognise. It’s really hard for us to recognise when this is negative because we just think, I just told a story. I didn’t do anything bad. I just told a story. And in an actual fact, we may be making people happy in the short term and may cause ourselves joy in the short term.
But by doing this, we distract people and confuse them. And when they’re when when other people’s minds are distracted and our minds are distracted, then we’re unable to develop as much meditative concentration, and therefore this is said to be a non virtue. So that is in Geshe-la’s mind the most difficult one to avoid, of the ten non virtues. So and then he said the the thing is it’s it’s it’s easy to hang on. The way he says it’s easy to understand mentally what these non virtues are.
It’s actually easy to do them because we’re not putting ourselves through any physical hardship by doing them. But it’s very difficult for us to see the qualities or the reasons or the benefits from not doing them. Yeah. So that’s why it makes it difficult for us to keep working at not doing them. So the first of the three non virtuous actions of of mind is covetousness or grasping after other people’s stuff.
So Geshe-la says that he thinks most of us experience this a lot. You know? You’re walking around and go, oh, I like that. I like that. I like what they’ve got over there.
I like what they’ve got there. I want that, and I want this, and I want that. And he said, this happens all the time. We get we have the all these different thoughts about wanting different stuff, thinking I need to bring and that I need to take that I need to have that. So we have these thoughts about other people’s things or other things that we see other people with a lot.
So this is the first non virtuous type of mind non virtue of mind. Seeing other people have nice stuff and then just thinking that’s nice, but I don’t need it isn’t this mine. So the the results of behaving in this way of having a mind that’s continually trying to is trying continually grasping or desiring or wanting other people’s stuff, is that in future lifetimes, we will experience no matter how hard we work for things, how no matter how hard we try, then we won’t be able to get what we’re working towards. It’d be very difficult for us to achieve anything and for it for us to accumulate anything.
So the next of the non virtues of mind is having a malicious or a nasty mind that seeks to harm others. So this isn’t a lot of times when we see we we may not like other people. We may see them and think, don’t like that. I don’t like that action. I don’t know what they’re doing.
But that isn’t this mind. This is the mind that or the the way of thinking that not only says, I don’t like them, but also then says, I want to hurt them in some way or another. I wanna inflict harm on them in some way or another. So most of the time when we’re dealing with humans, the people that humans wanna hurt is other humans in some way or another. Animals, we can see it a lot, wanna hurt other animals in some way or another.
They tend to eat each other and things like that. So so they have this malicious mind towards other animals, but usually with humans, we have a malicious mind towards other humans. And this mind is, like, nasty. Out of the different non virtues, this is one of the the nastiest and the most negative things that we can have is this malicious, hurtful mind. Okay.
So the the last of the the ten non virtuous hang on one second. So okay. The third of the non virtues of mind is wrong views. Now it’s said that wrong views is said to be a very, very negative thing to have out of the ten non virtues. It’s said to be the most the most negative because there’s two things that can stop us from creating merit, from progressing.
Now one of these is if we have anger because if we get angry a lot then that anger destroys our positive merit, our positive habits, yeah, are destroyed by getting angry a lot so that gets rid of them in that way. What wrong views do is stop us from acting in a positive way. So one of them gets rid of the positive karma we’ve accumulated and the other one stops us, this wrong view stops us from accumulating more positive karma. So wrong views are things like not believing in the qualities of the Three Jewels, a not believing in karma cause and effect, not believing in past and future lives, not believing in in emptiness and things like that. So hang on.
I said, guess, did you say anything? I don’t remember if you said anything. Not believing emptiness? He says, No, didn’t say that. But that is one of them.
If you don’t believe in you believe that hold on to this idea of things inherently existing and try and develop an understanding of the lack of inherent existence and that’s a non virtue. So these kind of thoughts make it difficult for us to create positive merit. There’s also, I guess, I said, a lot of people who are in high positions in the world at the moment who have a lot of wrong views. He said like I said, like like George Bush, and he said, no. Not just George Bush because George Bush says he’s a Christian, so he has some positive views as well.
But for example, the communists have this idea of that there is no such thing as karma, that that that actions don’t have any tangible results that come to it. So they’re they’re great expounders of wrong views, he said. So Geshe-la said, Now you know what the ten non virtuous actions are. Then the ten virtuous actions are the absence of those ten non virtuous actions. So when you get rid of the non virtuous actions, you are accumulating the virtuous actions.
Then I said, That means getting rid of all our husbands and wives and partners. Geshe-la said, No, no, no, He said, No, no, no, they can stay. That’s fine. It’s just a matter of working on developing these positive thought patterns and these positive behaviours, because by developing these positive behaviours initially developing these positive behaviours then in stages developing positive behaviors, then you accumulate merits and get rid of negativity. Okay.
So how these things are established as being positive or negative actions, as being positive or negative karma, is by their results. So if the result of something is suffering, it’s said to be a negative action. If the result of something is happiness, it’s said to be a positive action. So that’s the rule or the law for establishing whether something’s a positive or negative action, not any external thing. So we know then that if we practice positive actions, then we’re going to have happiness and if we practice negative actions we experience suffering.
There’s actually three different types of outcome we can have though. We can have a happy outcome, a negative or suffering outcome, or an equal, neither negative or positive outcome. And then we say, you yeah. But that’s for the karma, so I don’t know to say it. How would it’s yeah.
Nothing, you know. Yeah. Neither suffering nor happiness. And then there’s in order to have those three different outcomes, then we have three different types of action that we can have, which is positive, negative and neutral. So we have positive, negative and neutral karma, which has these three different types of outcome.
So yeah. So if anyone has any questions. I said to Geshe-la. So out of these, which is the most bad negativity? And he said killing.
And out of them, which is the least heavy negativity, and he says speaking rubbish. Yeah. Hang on. Oh, yes. Yeah.
Elaine? Samsāra happiness or Because, you know, it is a sort of pervasive Yeah. True happiness. Uh-huh. Yep.
Most of the virtue that we create is actually all pervasive suffering and the suffering of change, but it’s said to be sensory its result, sorry, is said to be sensory happiness, which is still pervasive suffering and the suffering of change. But in this perspective, is described as happiness because it is a form of happiness. It’s just not ultimate happiness. It’s just temporary suffering of change happiness, samsaric happiness. That’s most of the virtues we create, but it depends on the motivation.
If we’re doing something in order to achieve enlightenment for the benefit of all sentient beings or liberation, then that action’s result is ultimate happiness. Yeah? But most of the time we’re doing things in order to get happiness in this life, virtuous actions in order to get happiness in saṃsāra and the results will be happiness in saṃsāra. It depends on the motivation. If someone is doing something with a distinct idea that they’re doing that in order to get into heaven or god realm or whatever it is, then that and it’s a positive action, then if that’s the main thing that they do, then that result will be to be born in that realm.
Or if they think, I’m doing this in order to receive some kind of great bliss that isn’t either liberation or enlightenment, then that results would be something like the the god realms. So if it’s something to do with it, like, samsaric motivation, that’s a positive action, this idea receive receive some kind of bliss, then that is what the result would be the god realm. So this means that it all depends on motivation. So you have to be very careful of our motivation and try and do any virtuous action that we do with the motivation that we’re doing that in order to achieve enlightenment for the benefit of all sentient beings. And if we can’t get that into our heads, then we should think we’re doing it in order to achieve nirvana for ourselves.
Yeah? So we have to be very careful about our motivation for doing in any of these actions. We don’t have to worry about the god realms and human realms working towards that that end because if we’re working towards enlightenment, those things come about anyway because it’s through the positive merit that we’re creating. And the other thing is we’ve been a god. We’ve been a human so many times that there there’s no point in going through that whole cycle again.
Okay. Doesn’t reckon you can have sex without desire. He said that when you’re doing certain tantric practices, you can have sex without desire, but unless you’ve realized the emptiness and things like this that you can’t have sex without desire. I’m not gonna get into the Victorian era or anything with this. The only way that you can have sexual intercourse in the well, hang on, I should put it this way.
The only way that you can perform the sexual act, which is sexual intercourse, without it being a non virtue is if you have complete control over the subtle winds and energies within your body and you can turn the act into a meditation where you re channel the energies through your body so that it doesn’t have the usual outcome of expelling stuff. I can’t believe I have to ever say this. Anyway, and you can re channel these energies through your body, right? And I said, Yeah, but that doesn’t always happen. He asked for it. He was saying like, yeah, if it doesn’t happen, if someone’s doing something without desire and it’s not happening, then it’s not happening to them that’s not sexual misconduct.
That sorts that out then. Yes. I’m going back to the other subject. Thank you. It seems I’m having some difficulty with the notion of the power of intention.
Mhmm. It seems as though the the implication I’m taking from the teaching is that what your intention is, what your aspiration is toward in aspiration is toward in in doing an action is almost like an unerring arrow. It propels you know, the result of that is, like, propelled without without fail. Mhmm. Toward a goal. So if you’re if I am doing a positive action with the the notion of the saṃsāra benefit, I will get a saṃsāra benefit.
If I if I, you know, if I wanna end up in the god realm, I will I will end up in the god realm. If I wish to become a Buddha, I will become a Buddha. Now it seems to me that the that every single aspiration can’t be equally strong. Mhmm. Some aspirations are maybe, oh, yeah.
You know, you pass by a picture and you go, oh, yeah. That’s a nice looking Buddha. I’d like to be a Buddha someday. You know? I mean Mhmm.
Mhmm. How strong an aspiration is that? Mhmm. Are there gradations of aspiration, basically? I mean okay.
Everyone hear that? Yeah. Cool. So there’s different intensities of intention depending on how how much thought has gone into it and how much focus and intention. And Geshe-la said the other thing is the minds that come along with that, the thoughts that come along with it.
So for example, if you’re just walking past the Buddha statue and go, Yeah, like Buddha. I want to become a Buddha, then that’s a virtuous action. But it’s not as strong a virtuous action as if you’re thinking, All sentient beings are suffering. I have to work towards achieving enlightenment in order to get them out of suffering and so you have that mind, the idea of respect for the Buddha and then if you had an understanding of emptiness coming together with that then that makes the energy from that mind stronger. So all of those are virtuous actions, but when you have the different minds working together, then the intention becomes stronger.
But the intention that’s positive is in terms of a positive result. I I guess I was wondering if, you know, some weak aspiration sort of missed their marks. Okay. You know, like, arrows don’t always hit the target. Sure.
Sure. But are they really unerring. Is that what’s being said? Okay. So if the motivation or the aspiration is virtuous, then it pervades that the result will be happiness.
Yeah. It’s always yeah. So it is okay. Yep. Of course.
And they’re not the same thing because one of them is establishing your intention for doing something, and the other is firm dedicating what you’ve done towards a a goal. Right? So they if a similar motivation, but they’re actually a different act does that make sense so if you if you you do one beforehand so you you watch your mind to see what you’re doing what motivation you take to an action once you’ve completed the action you then think you dedicate that action afterwards. So they have a different function, but they have a similar purpose. Yeah.
Does that make sense? Okay. So if you’re doing both of those, if you’re saying, I’m doing this in order to achieve enlightenment, and then after you dedicate to achieving enlightenment, then it’s the same thing, but you may not necessarily always do that. Okay. So but yeah.
Except one of them is supposed to be before you do an action and one of them is after an action. It’s just setting it at the beginning and then following it up at the end. Yeah. Okay. And now, eating meat and killing an ant without knowing that you’ve done it are both nonvirtuous actions, but they’re not very strong nonvirtuous actions, and then neither of them are killing.
Okay? So it well, hang on. The first killing an ant is killing, but it’s not the non virtue of killing. So it’s a non virtuous action, but it’s not the actual, like, definition of that non virtue, right? Because that non virtue has an intention with it.
Yeah? So because there is no intention, there is no motivation to kill, it doesn’t fully qualify, as he said it, fully qualify the negative action of killing, but it is a type of killing, if that makes sense. So they’re both negative, and eating meat isn’t the negative action of killing, but because it’s motivated by desire, and grasping, therefore, it’s a negative action. But it’s not the negative action of killing. But wouldn’t eating rice be the same then?
Yep. Because it’s motivated by because he said, yeah, eating by it because of desire. Yeah. And neither none of these are big and virtuous, but they’re they’re still non virtuous actions. Yeah.
So hope we have to go home and not move. He said they’re both idle chatter or yeah, but it’s almost it’s incredibly difficult to stop idly chattering. Guess they’ll say that watching a telly show is idle chatter. Any kind of