Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 45-minute talk, Geshe Pema Tsering draws a careful distinction between subtle and gross impermanence — the moment-to-moment flux within a “continuum of a similar type” versus final cessation when causes and conditions run out — then applies this framework to body, feelings, and consciousness. He poses a counterintuitive claim that he says requires sustained analytical meditation: the cause of birth and the cause of death are the same thing. A student question leads to close examination of whether mind has gross impermanence; the answer is no, because consciousness is by nature “clear and knowing” and nothing can extinguish it. The session closes with questions on karma and untimely death, illustrated with a 2003 SARS example, and a practical exchange on how much fear is useful: enough to motivate practice, but Geshe-la warns that paralysis helps no one.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 02 D and I 2003 09 16.mp3
UUID: 0b7b169d-d036-4388-b343-f3da878bbabd
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: DB Death and Impermanance (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Date: 2003-09-16
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 45.0 minutes
Words: ~3,705
And we have a continual cycle of the path, the past moment being obliterated and the next moment being brought into being. So this is called continuum of a similar type. When this similar type ceases to exist, we have gross impermanence, so that’s the destruction of whatever it is. But in terms of what subtle impermanence is, is in this continuum of a similar type, there is a constant change happening. There is constant moment to moment destruction or or cessation and generation.
So the reason that this continuation of a similar type continues to continue is that it has causes and conditions that are causing it to continue, right? When the causes and the conditions cease to be there, when there’s no more causes and conditions for this thing to keep going, then that is the gross impermanence, that’s when things cease to be. So whether it’s a house that has completely been destroyed or a car that’s gotten so old that it’s fallen apart, these things are the end of the continuum a similar type because there are no causes or conditions bringing this on. When we’re talking about ourselves, that is when we die, when we have no more causes and conditions left to cause this body to continue the process of this continuum of a similar type. Okay.
So this process that’s going on with the moment to moment changing of destruction and and generation in external objects is exactly the same for internal, objects that is with our physical form, feelings, our, our feelings of happiness and suffering, discrimination, composite factors, and our consciousness. All of these things are in a constant process of generation and destruction or destruction generation, destruction generation where one moment creates the cause for the next moment to exist and when those causes and conditions are no longer there, then that thing ceases to exist. So that means that our body, for example, is something that will cease to exist when there is no longer cause and conditions for that and the same with feelings and discrimination and so forth. Our mind however has existed or our consciousness has existed since beginningless time. So what we’ve had happened there is since beginningless time, there has been a continuum of a similar type.
If you have one moment of mind, then that creates the next moment of mind. And this mind has not the causes and conditions for this mind to cease do not exist. It continues on from moment to moment in the continuum of a similar type. What happens when, for example, our body no longer has the causes and conditions to sustain its existence, then it and the mind part company and the body is abandoned and the mind continues on. But because the mind has the imprints of form on the mind, the mind takes on another rebirth.
So these imprints or these tendencies that the mind has in it generate its environment. So the mind ceases to have this body attached to it because of the imprint of the physical form, it takes rebirth in a physical form. This is what’s called subtle impermanence. It’s something that we don’t notice in its momentary nature, but we do notice in terms of its longer term outcomes. For example, although we were born as very, very, very small baby or as though when we were conceived of a very, very small baby who may not be much bigger than could be carried like this.
Now, we’re not the same as that. We’ve gotten bigger. We’re much bigger than that, this size. So, we have to understand that some process of change was involved in that. To go from something this small to go to what we are now, there had to be some process of change involved.
This process of change is what’s called momentariness or subtle impermanence. So we come into existence or we’re born because of causes and conditions. And because we’re born from because of causes and conditions, that means that we are in a constant state of change. The causes and conditions are in a constant state of renewal, of degeneration and generation. Eventually, when those causes and conditions are no longer there, that’s when we cease to be our lifetime is ended, yeah, so that’s called death.
Usually when we talk about this we talk about death and impermanence because in every moment we have impermanence at the end we have death. So these two things are usually referred to together. What happens is we think about it, not when we think about impermanence, but in general, when we think about ourselves, we think that our body, this thing that we have, is very important and we spend a lot of time looking after it. We feed it, we eat, we drink, we wash ourselves because we think that our body is a base, if we look after it, for us to experience happiness. But, in actual fact, our body is a base for us to experience happiness and suffering.
And if we look at it, then the cause for us to die is the fact that we were born. The fact that we have a body is the cause for us to cease to have that body. So from being born, we have the cause for death. The cause for death and the cause for birth are the same thing. We need to do analytical meditation in order to be understand that.
We need to meditate or analyze the fact that the cause of birth is the same thing as the cause of death. The cause of death is same thing as the cause of birth. We need to understand that because that’s not the way that it appears to us. It appears to us as if things exist continually or if things exist solidly, that our body is something that is a solidly existing thing and is not in a constant state of change. But in order for us to understand that it is in a constant state of change, then we need to meditate or analyse and do analytical meditation on this process of impermanence.
Okay. This process of analytical meditation that we need to do, the reason that we need to do that is because we don’t understand or we don’t see clearly the process of subtle impermanence as it happens. In order for us to be able to realize or to understand subtle impermanence then we need to go through this analytical process understanding that in every moment that things are momentary that they exist because of their previous moments acting as a cause for this continuum of a similar type to continue and that this process continues from birth all through our lives we don’t view it like this we view ourselves as being solid but if we watch then we can see that we’re not the same thing as we were and this process of impermanence, this momentariness continues all through our lives and when the causes and conditions are no longer there for our body and our mind to exist in union then our body and our minds split that’s called death so these two things always come together impermanence and then death. They always say death and impermanence. The reason these things come together is because of impermanence we have death.
So, we need to keep analyzing this and understanding this in order for us to be able to realize impermanence because it’s difficult for us to realize impermanence now. Another reason that we need to develop this understanding of impermanence and death is because we’re not quite sure whether we will be here tomorrow. The time of our death is very uncertain. It’s something that we can’t be sure of we may have done very positive things but we may have also done very negative things and we don’t know we don’t have the ability to see what karma that we have accumulated and how that karma will manifest in the future so we need to become familiar with the idea of impermanence and very familiar with the idea of death that we need to become we need to remind ourselves of these things we need to remind ourselves that this process is going on so we can understand that death will happen that death is something that will happen to live more than a hundred years in this existence is very difficult it’s not something that happens often it is possible to live for a hundred years but it’s not something that is very usual right so we’ve only got up to maximum a hundred years in this existence, so we have to try and utilize that.
There are other places where there are longer lifespans, but in this place, it is usually about a hundred years or less than a hundred years. And even if we keep thinking about how many years it is, that doesn’t really give us any indication. How old you are doesn’t determine that you’re definitely not going to die. Geshe-la says he’s sixty three and most of the time he thinks, Yeah, I’ve got a few years left yeah but he can’t actually be guaranteed of that he just thinks that way and there’s people that can pass away when they’re very young as well so however old we are if we sit around thinking oh I’m young it’ll be fine that’s not a very very intelligent or that’s not very helpful thing to do because it’s not definite in any way if someone said to you okay you have to sign your name that you’ll be alive tomorrow we couldn’t really do that we couldn’t actually say give a guarantee that we’d be alive tomorrow because we don’t know what karma we have accumulated and we don’t know how that will manifest. This this meditation on impermanence and death is really important if we want to practice Dharma if we want to do religious practice because if we think about impermanence and death we get scared and if we get scared then we only do good things so if we’re scared that means that we will try and practice or try and we’ll try and focus on achieving liberation and achieving Buddhahood.
Oh, yeah. Okay. That we can stop it. Yeah. Yeah.
Uh-huh. Yeah. Right. Okay. The reason I say consciousness just as a no is because when you’re talking about the five aggregates or the five collections, the term that’s used there is consciousness.
Yeah. And mind is you could also say mind there as well though. Yeah? Mind and consciousness are both impermanent but because they never cease to exist because their causes never cease to exist. Okay.
So the the the the definition of impermanence, yeah, is changing in every moment, is not coming to an end. Alright so mind isn’t something that ever comes to an end hence, but it isn’t something that ever comes to an end but we can’t say that it’s permanent because it’s constantly changing in every moment, yeah? And if it was a permanent then it wouldn’t be able to change, yeah? And so because it can change hence we have to say that it’s impermanent that it’s a functioning thing that it changes in every moment. If it wasn’t able to change then we wouldn’t be able to achieve Buddhahood.
Okay, so it’s called impermanent. Yeah. Okay. It doesn’t it doesn’t cease to be. It becomes more refined and more refined and more refined until it becomes enlightened.
Yeah? If if people follow when people are following their teachings. I’ve forgotten the last bit now because I was trying to do two things. Okay. So if it’s permanent, it doesn’t change.
Yeah. So it wouldn’t be able to change if it was permanent. Yeah. Because I was just checking in other schools, they say mind is permanent, right, because it doesn’t ever end. But the definition of permanent is that it doesn’t change here and therefore, from Geshe-la’s perspective, therefore it doesn’t work.
Okay. Okay, understanding impermanence is a lot easier than understanding emptiness. Understanding impermanence is something that, in its grossest forms, we can see we can do very, very easily we understand that things don’t last forever we can understand that fairly easily understanding emptiness is something that’s much, much more subtle that means that we need to in order to understand emptiness we need to understand that things only exist because they are labeled as such and they don’t exist inherently from their side that’s much more difficult thing to conceive of but linked to emptiness is the concept of dependent origination and understanding dependent origination you will understand more about impermanence. You can’t understand emptiness until you’ve understood impermanence. It’s much easier to understand impermanence.
There are many people who have understood impermanence who haven’t understood emptiness or haven’t realised emptiness but there’s no one who’s realised emptiness but hasn’t realised impermanence Okay. Why? Because that’s not good. I’m just trying to think of how to put that, and I have to ask now. Because I was trying to I was just why why does why would fear stop stop you from developing bodhicitta?
So I can ask the question clearer. Because you’d be so overwhelmed with sheer fear. That you wouldn’t be able to. You wouldn’t be able to focus on anything else. Okay.
Okay, so, we really need to be scared, right? If we’re not scared, then we’re in trouble. If we’re not scared, we’re in trouble. If we’re not scared, we’re not going to do anything, yeah? And it’s no point thinking okay I don’t want to be scared so I’m not going to think about it because at some stage we’ll have to think about it whether it’s now or whether it’s when we’re going to die we have to understand fear because it’s something that we have to deal with yeah now said, Yeah, but if you’re really scared, you can’t do anything.
Geshe-la said, Only people who don’t think get so scared, they can’t do anything. He said, If you’re so scared you can’t do anything, you have to think how is this helping? If you’re so scared you can’t do anything that’s not helping you. The idea of the fear is to benefit you because if you’re scared you’re not going to want to do anything negative. If you’re scared of what the experience of the lower realms may be like you’re going to try and do positive things but if you get so scared that you’re not doing anything then that’s you need to he said you need to think about that yeah what’s the way you can balance up the fear Yeah.
Sure. Okay. So how do you stop yourself from being paralyzed with fear? Is that it? Sure.
If you’re really scared of something, then you need to look at what it is that you’re afraid of and try and figure out what to do in order to stop that happening. Alright? So if you’re really scared of going to the lower realms then you do whatever you can to stay out of them. Yeah? That’s the point of the fear.
Now, I said, okay, what if you think I have no hope, I’m such a bad person, I’m going there, that’s it and we get overcome with fear because she said that’s not a possibility that there’s no one that exists like that even being afraid of the lower realms is creating merit. Yeah, so I said that’s helpful to know. So, so even that fear by being afraid, you’re creating merit. So, there is nothing, but you have to deal with what you’re afraid of and not concentrate on the fear. Hang on.
Pamela was first. You’re going to have to wait. Is a question about the continuum of a similar type. Yeah, I’m just remembering the word. I heard it, then I have to repeat.
At the gross at the gross impermanence of of a continuum of similar type Yep. Say a table, a chair, a body Yeah. It no longer exists the way it did. Yeah. It it disaggregates.
Yeah. Yeah. But the things of which it’s made, the atoms Uh-huh. Still continue. Yeah.
So it would I mean, it would seem logical that the similar type Uh-huh. Is actually a convention. Uh-huh. Something that’s positive on a particular type of thing. Yep.
But the exception seems to be consciousness. Yeah. Because that is something that’s beginning less and the causes and conditions for existing never cease. Yeah. So, I mean Uh-huh.
Does mind even have gross impermanence? Uh-huh. An interesting question. I have to try and think of a way to repeat that so everybody else can hear now. Basically, does mind have gross impermanence?
That’s the good that’s the right. Okay. And because I started explaining it goes, and I said, that was not her question. Okay, now okay all phenomena become are impermanent in terms of changing from moment to moment to moment yeah all physical phenomena have a gross impermanence, yeah mind is impermanent because the mind that exists in one moment is a cause for the mind that exists in the next moment, yeah but because it is not a physical thing it doesn’t have anything that will destroy it, okay? There is no the causes and the conditions for non physical things do not cease to exist, yeah?
That isn’t to say that the causes and conditions for adventitious minds don’t cease to exist. But the mind itself is a continuum that existed because there’s no it’s not physical, so therefore there’s nothing that will cause it to cease to exist. The causes and conditions that give rise to the adventitious mind, they can be exhausted, and so that adventitious mind stops. Adventitious types of mind. Types of mind, but consciousness itself, very subtle consciousness, does that continue?
Yeah, but hang on one second, I forgot something Geshe-la said the reason that mind doesn’t have the causes and conditions that will cause its end is because its nature is just clear and knowing, yeah? Okay so because its nature is just clear and knowing, there is nothing that can cease that clear knowingness, and that one moment of clear knowingness gives birth to the next moment of clear knowingness. What was the quote? The thing again you just said? Be was, because I hadn’t finished yeah?
So we’re cool? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
But talking about untimely death as being, you know, maybe brought about because of lack of nourishment to fulfill the lifespan. But how can such things come about if all is determined by causes and conditions? It has — I don’t know how to put it — it’s hard to reason. Well, you’re like, so, basically, the causes and conditions of previous lives determine where we’re born and and how we The causes and conditions of previous lives?
Or the karma that we create, impact on the causes and conditions in this life, in the present. Right. Can conflict and unpredictability even exist if Okay. Okay. Yeah.
Okay. So it was basically I wanted to know how causes how the causes and conditions of an untimely death how can the concept of an untimely death by causes and conditions come about? No? We had just the question and I’m really confused about the kind of concept. Okay.
I just said, some people live a long time, others don’t. How come? Is that right? Yeah. Some people live a long time, others don’t.
How come? Yeah. Yeah. Alright, so when a person dies or not depends on the karma that they have accumulated previously to that instance. So if they have accumulated karma from a previous existence, from a previous life, that is called throwing karma or establishing karma that means that they are supposed to have a lifespan of say a hundred years yeah that’s one type of karma that can come about say to be born as a human that’s a generalized life time for humans yeah but then within that time there may be conditions and causes that come about that cause a person to die prematurely yeah, they may have another type of karma, there’s all different types of karma, they may have another type of karma that means that they will experience an untimely death, that may be one thing, they may also have completing karma or a karma that establishes their lifespan as very small.
They may have done something that means that the result of that will be a short lifetime. So there’s two different ways they can have untimely death. Two different types of karma. The karma that establishes the length of the life is usually called throwing karma that comes from the previous life. Other causes and conditions may not be from that but the the main type of karma establishes the length of life is from the previous life so what that does, that propelling karma actually acts as a force which stops all of the causes for death happening in that time frame because there’s many causes of death if we had a reason to die, if we had a cause are many we come into contact with many different causes of death the thing that stops us from falling to those causes of death is this throwing karma that has established our lifespan as a certain amount of time okay, hang on, yeah, there’s two more Do you want?
Okay. So that’s Sorry. No. So that’s why the SARS virus is used as the example. If you have karma to if you have the karma not to get infected and die But he doesn’t reckon there’s many people who wouldn’t have the karma to get because we’ve been here since beginningless time, so at some stage, we probably accumulated the karma to get SARS.
So yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.