Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 44-minute session, Geshe Pema Tsering uses the image of mistaking a coiled rope for a snake in dim light to anchor a comparative survey of emptiness across Buddhist schools of thought. He first examines the contaminated aggregates through the three types of suffering — suffering of suffering, suffering of change, and pervasive conditioning — before moving to the subtler features of emptiness and selflessness. The core of the commentary contrasts three philosophical positions: the Mind Only school’s view that subject and object share one substance; the Autonomy Middle Way’s claim that things exist through both own-characteristics and mental labeling; and the Consequentialist Middle Way’s assertion that phenomena exist through mental labeling alone, with nothing existing from its own side. A pointed debate follows on whether that last view renders the Four Noble Truths themselves nonexistent — and how the Consequentialists answer the charge. Suited to practitioners with some grounding in Buddhist philosophy.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 02 4NT 2002 06 22.mp3
UUID: d4a6ca9b-4f26-473f-a9c2-084f6d477f89
Teacher: Geshe Pema Tsering
Collection: 4 Noble Truths (Geshe Pema Tsering)
Date: 2002-06-22
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 44.7 minutes
Words: ~3,512
So therefore the contaminated aggregates are suffering and if we don’t usually we don’t think and if we do then we will come now to know that they they lack independent or they are under the influence of disturbing emotions and the actions because we can think in this way for example it is under the influence of disturbing emotions and the karma because at the when it when the time has come to take a birth it produces and when the time comes into to come to die, you know, it will let us die and and that is so true because if we are not under the influence of disturbing emotions and the karma then it is quite obvious that everyone wants to be a young and and and and and and and say looking cool, you know, and no wants to be old, know, remain as a forty-year-old forever but we have no independence and because we are under the influence of disturbing emotions, the karma and at the time it will produce us and at the time it will bend our body and then at the end we have to go through the death. It is under the influence of disturbing emotions, the karma, therefore the the the yep.
They are suffering. And then in terms for the suffering, there are numbers of suffering. The main are three divisions of the suffering which are the suffering of suffering, suffering of change and suffering of pervasive conditioning. And then each has numbers of subdivisions. And to go through those details, it is rather more easier to go through the Lamrim text, graduated path to enlightenment.
So roughly briefly explanation or brief explanation on the suffering of these three sufferings, then this first suffering of suffering is like all this disease we undergoes through. They are the suffering of suffering. And the suffering of change, like the samsaric happiness, we have the the yep. The worldly happiness, but they are they never stay happy forever. They change later on into suffering.
So they are called the suffering of change and the suffering of pervasive conditioning like from since from the birth till the death, you go through all this continuum passes through and and yep. And go through different types of suffering. So these are called the suffering of pervasive condition. Got it. Got it.
And I’m not going to explain details on those sufferings of the the three sufferings, suffering of suffering, suffering of change, and suffering of pervasive conditions. It has been in the graduated path, which we have been explaining in the last few teachings. And now to the third feature which features which is the emptiness now it is impermanent, it is suffering, and now it is emptiness. It is emptiness because it is empty of creator that there is no such a permanent creator or the producer and they are the productions of the disturbing emotion and the karma that that when we say the empty of creator like that says it’s empty of creator, which is like there is no such things like, you know, it’s been created by the Lord Shiva’s and so forth. So in terms of emptiness, now there are different assertions assertions from the different school of Buddhist school of tenets.
And example, like those Got it. Got it. So so, yeah, in terms of, yeah, Buddhist schools of tenets, they are like many schools. The Vaibhāṣika is like a, particular list, there are many. And just mainly speaking through the middle schools Buddhist schools of middle middle way school, it has two main class so called the Svatāntrika school of middle way and the the consequentialist, the Consequentialist school of middle way school tenets.
And and those like the empty of creator and so forth are set forth by the Svatāntrika school and whereas the consequentialist school there is a different way of saying that they are empty because they are empty of self sufficiently existence. And now comes into the selflessness which is the fourth feature of the suffering, the up to suffering, and that comes now as for this to establish the selflessness, there are many same as the emptiness, there are many ways of establishing the selflessness because of different schools of Buddhist, yeah, tenets. And the middle way school consequentialist middle way has different way of establishing the selflessness as well as the Svatāntrika middle way school has their own way of establishing the selflessness, and the the another school which is called the mind only school, Chittamatrin school, has their own way of establishing the selflessness. And in general, it says by speaking through this of selflessness now it’s coming into the very subtle theories or the the views of the Buddhist teachings now. And as generally speaking for the selflessness, there are two types of selflessness, so called the the selflessness of phenomena and selflessness of the person.
So now in terms of selflessness now, the the Sorry. The mind only system. They assure the selflessness is selflessness means the the the the the yeah. I’m trying to put it in easier way. The mind only school means the the No project is the the phenomenon are the nature of the mind, that this is how they assert the school, the so called the mind only school, and in their school the selflessness is the one that both the subject and the object are are empty of separate entity or separate substances, which means then that the subject and the object are are one substance.
They hold one substance. They are one substance, which which means for example the form and the cognizer which perceived the forms are not the different entity, not the different substance, they are one. So which means that when they are free of different substance, which means they assert that both subject and object are one substance, so and such because they are free of separate substances, this is and and that and because of that reason, yeah. That is that is the selflessness how self selfless selflessness comes from asserted by the mind only schools. So so this is how their selflessness or their emptiness, the the mind only school assert that the the the free, they are so yep.
The the the subject and the object are the empty of inherent empty of separate substance, and that is the emptiness or selflessness asserted by the the mind only school. And so and such theory they they apply that theory or, yeah, that theory to entire phenomena. Yep. Entire phenomena. For example, like the vast and the the the the the mental yeah.
Sorry. The vast and the vast perceiver or cognizer are are holding the same substance. For example, so because they are they they just arise from the one latency. For example, like, either the latency be cultivated in the the formal life or formal form or a previous one of the previous life. It doesn’t necessarily be a previous previous life that that that that the predisposition can be cultivated in the morning or the morning one imprints the latency and that that latency arise in the evening time by the meeting of the the eye and the consciousness and the vast.
So and and meeting of that and then forms the the the vast in front of the eye consciousness and that the consciousness, the agent which perceives the the vast. And they are like the the fifty fifty of the the particular predisposition, and they are the result of the one predisposition or a latency. So this is how they they assert that they are because they are the results or arose from the one one latency, and they are the they’re holding the same substance, like same same substance, and and the half arise from the vast and half from the mind. So this is how they said that all the phenomena are the nature of of holds the same nature of the mind. Got it.
Got Got it. So so when one realized the emptiness according to according to the mind only system, and that is the emptiness which they realize, which is which is the subject and object are free, empty of empty whole empty of separate substances, like which means now the free of separate here when we use the word empty of different separate substance, which means free of separate substance. Geshe-la was saying, do you understand? Well, you’ll get there. Wish you all speak Tibetan, you know?
Yeah. Right. So that that part is minor only school. Now we jump to the next one. This is called the middle way school now.
As we said, the middle way school have two main schools, so called the Svatāntrika school and the Consequentialist school. So now the how the selflessness described in the the the mind sorry. The autonomy middle way school. Now there’s a there’s a different than the mind only school. So their selflessness is like they they yeah.
So that phenomena are not truly exist, the empty of true existence, which is which they assert. But they if they say they are they are free of true true existence, but in other hand, yep, they say they’re free of true existence. But on the other hand, they also say, but they do exist, but they are from their character from their own characteristics. So which means interdependence that they are they exist through the collections on the both side that that that the phenomena the each and every phenomena that exist apart from their their own from their characteristics and this and other part also through the mental imputation or a fabrication. So so both from the the glass, it is by its own characteristic, and then from the mental mentally, you know, it labels glasses are glass.
So because the collections of those two, that phenomena exist. So because yes. So it’s and and such because they exist from the both sides, so called yep. And and and that is the impermanence. That is the emptiness or the selflessness of the autonomy middle way school.
So now because as we said in the the earlier part here, they also agreed in the theory of of the phenomena are not are truly are truly existent. The reason why they are not truly existent is because even though they exist by their own characteristics, but without the mental imputation or labeling, they do not exist. So therefore, they are not truly exist because they do not exist without the mental fabrication or labeling. So because it because of that, because they do not exist without the mental label yeah, fabrication or label, therefore, they are emptiness or they are selflessness. Got it.
It. So as we said, as for the selflessness, there are two types of selflessness, and the the selflessness of phenomena and selflessness of of person and or selflessness of the person or a selflessness of the self. And so we still enter the autonomy school here. So and they said that the the the phenomena lacking true existence are is this the which is the most is this subtle selflessness, which is the selflessness of selflessness of phenomena and and and and the the And then the phenomena which are free of self sufficiently exists is is the is the second one, which is which is more which is, yeah, which is the coarser one, that is the selflessness of the person. So these are the these are the those two are the selflessness of phenomena and selflessness of of of the person.
And and and the selflessness of phenomena is more subtle and and and and difficult to realize than the selflessness of the person. Yes. Yes. So here we have just given a brief explanation of the emptiness and the selflessness come according to the Chittamatrin school, the mind only school, and the autonomy Madhyamaka school. So now now coming to the third middle yeah.
The second one, which is the Consequentialist middle way school, and that view or school is considered to be the the ultimate or utmost school, Buddhist schools of tenets, and it’s the one which yep. The utmost and the most valid school that’s been practiced in the Buddhism Buddhist schools. So and there is the emptiness or or the selflessness is that that all phenomena exist merely, yeah, merely exist through the mental labeling without depending on the labeling of mental label mental labeling, they do not exist, which means that the phenomena never exist from their own part or on or from or do not exist on their own side, but by their own. And for example, example giving is like for during the very the foggy weather or the dark, you know, very closer to the evening dark, you know, and one see the one roll of ropes lying on the middle of the room. And certainly, because it is not clear, one just have a little tip and then comes and see it as a snake.
So just actually, it’s not a snake. It’s just a roll of, yep, the rope, but one see then see it as a as a snake. They’re mistaken. So it’s just mental labeling. Without depending on mental imputation or labeling, the phenomenon never, yeah, exists on their own part or site.
So in generally, we when when we perceive a thing or object, we see a object, we we assume that that object exists but on its own, which are mistaken. And if the object exists by its own character, by its own side, then it should exist without depending on the mental imputation or the labeling. So if it does, then they are then then the phenomena should truly exist because phenomena do not exist by its own side without depending on the mental labeling. Therefore, they are untrue or they are not truly exist. Speaking of this now, there are lots of debates between those school scholars.
You know? And speaking of this, when the consequence of the school assert that the things do not exist on their own side or or or on from their own part, so they are all they exist through the mental imputation or mental labeling. Without depending on the mental labeling, they do not exist. Therefore, they are not true existence. The things, the phenomena do not exist by their own or not truly exist because they are that depends on the mental imputation or labeling.
So when and therefore, yeah, this is how the the consequentialist middle of the school asserts such theory. When they said such now by speaking of this, because the other school, the Svatāntrika school of Madhyamaka as well as the the consequent the mind only system, when they heard that expression from the consequence school, they they now they raise an argument or a debate for such theory. And and which was set forth that if you say so, then there is a little there is a extreme of non existence of the Four Noble Truths. If they say things do not exist on their own side or from their own part, then you should and then in your system, you should it comes according to such theory, then all the four noble the teachings of the Four Noble Truths, even the Buddha himself come into the nonexistence. So the Consequentialist needs to give answer for that.
Okay. The answer here is then said that this is not the case. If the phenomena if those if if phenomena exist on their own part, then instead of me, you know, the nonexistence of the four noble truths, Buddha enlightenment and so forth comes for you, not for my system. Because the mind only sorry. Because the the Svatāntrika school, you assert the phenomena are interdependent.
Because you assert interdependent, yeah, interdependent, dependent arising. So therefore, the Buddhahood, Buddhahood, four noble truths, forth are interdependent. So without depending on others, without depending without depending on others that do not exist, Therefore, because they are interdependent, they are they are free of they are free of true existence because without depending on the mental labeling, they are they do not exist. They have to exist. Depend, yep, exist depending on others which is mental labeling, without depending on mental labeling they do not exist, reason why they have to, reason why they are, they depend on the mental labeling is because they are interdependent which you assert in your system which is your autonomy middle way school.
So because they’re interdependent, they do not, they depend, they exist by depending on the mental labeling or mental imputation. So therefore, they are not to re existence because they depend. Do not exist without depending on the mental labeling. So if they exist but from their own part or on their side, then instead of my instead of giving me that answer, you know, you should answer, we’ll go back that they do not exist on your school. Does that make sense?
Come on. So therefore, the this is how the the the theory of the consequentialist schools are are are to are been practiced and a valid valid valid valid theory because they are it is so true. In in reality, the phenomena are interdependent and dependent arising. So without depending on other, they do not exist. Whereas the autonomy Middle Way School, in other hand, agree the theory of dependent arising.
And then the and and then other side, they assert also they exist by their own side, so which are a bit contradictory. And so, yeah, as we said, the the consequentialist middle school is the utmost school in the Buddhist school of tenets, and and that is the one thing to be practiced and will practice in the many monastic systems. But speaking of this, one may think that then why bother explaining all the rest of the Buddhist schools of tenets like the autonomy Middle Way School, mind only Chittamatrin School, and and particularist, the Chittamatrin, and the Sautrāntika. And there are many schools like Vaibhāṣika Schools, Sautrāntika Schools, Chittamatrin Schools, and then the comes the, yeah, Madhyamaka Schools where the which are in the two autonomy and the consequentialist.
So without studying on those lower schools like mind only schools and so forth, it is really hard to understand the theories of the consequentialist school. So that for that reason, this is how the the the different Buddhist schools of tenets tenets been explained or taught by the lord Buddha Śākyamūni. So therefore, in the consequentialist middle way school, everything exists in a mere labeling or imputation, mental imputation, and your conceptual imputation. And and without depending on that mental labeling, not a single phenomena will exist exist. It is because if if the things exist without depending on others or without depending yeah.
Without depending on others, And if it exists by its own side or by its own part, then they should they should exist very steady. They should not they should not there should not be any changes because it has its because it exists independently, it does not need to depend on others. So it that that that then the things should exist unchanged. So so, yeah, this is how the the consequentialist middle way school assert the emptiness. So when and in order to establish the emptiness, there are many logical reasons or or proofs, Yeah.
The two reasons to establish establish the emptiness in consequentialist middle way school. So one of the reasons are so forth. It’s a bit hard here now, saying that one of the reason is saying that things are not truly existent because they are because they do not truly exist in one, neither one nor in two. So therefore, this is the one reason saying, if they exist truly, they should either exist one or or in two, but one either one or two because they do not exist truly neither one nor two. Therefore, they are free they are emptiness or they are emptiness or the empty of true existence.
So therefore, this is how it comes that all the phenomena are are mere imputation or labeling or or mere existent exist through the mere conceptual level elaboration or the labeling. Right. Right. So and as the example given earlier is called the mistaking the the rope as a snake, that the people, the person enters through the door and suddenly saw that and develops a huge fear. Oh, there is a snake.
Because that snake exists because of mental labeling or mental imputation. And and if one vividly looks, examine the things, then there is no reason well, want you to fear develop the fear seeing that rope as a snake because if one go through vividly, see this that that rope hasn’t gone