Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. In this 44-minute talk, Geshe Dhawa Gyaltsen guides students through a systematic logical analysis of the emptiness of self, the heart of Buddhist wisdom. He establishes a four-point framework—examining whether the self is one with the aggregates, entirely separate, or neither—then walks through multiple concrete reasonings: if the self and body were identical, burning the corpse should destroy the self, yet consciousness continues into rebirth; if identical, the self should experience bodily sensations as the mind does. He applies this same analysis to the five Buddhist paths, explaining that on the path of accumulation (the beginner’s stage) we repeat this investigation repeatedly until insight takes hold. He concludes by teaching why realization can feel terrifying: when practitioners discover the self they’ve grasped as solid and independent doesn’t actually exist, fear naturally arises—and this fear itself is part of the path. For Buddhist practitioners beginning rigorous study of the Heart Sūtra.
File metadata (for organising)
File: 10 HS.mp3
UUID: d92ab2e9-205a-4b1d-bf6b-400e18cbe895
Teacher: Geshe Dhawa Gyaltsen
Collection: Heart Sūtra (Geshe Dhawa Gyaltsen)
Date: 1996 (exact day not recorded)
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Duration: 44.0 minutes
Words: ~2,341
Aggregates are not as five limbs, and the person—the person is the… So if the aggregate and the self are one, then this is false, which we are again saying that the body and the embodied, or that which owns the body, becomes one. And put on the dentures, and then also the aggregates or the limbs and one who owns the limbs… So similar to the other explanation from where it says there are five… So because of the five aggregates, the seed it also makes five selves. So if the person and… sorry, the person and the aggregate are one, then it becomes like that—there are five selves. So on the other hand, everything has one self, and if the self is one thing and then one with the aggregate, then it makes sure that everyone has one self.
So other examples: if the body or the aggregate and the self or the person is one, then when the body dies, when one dies, the body gets burned and becomes ashes. So the I should also be burned and become ashes. So if the I too, or the self too, is burned and turns to ash like the body, the aggregate, then there is no one—then there’s no self which continues and takes rebirth into the next life. So then if that I disappears like the aggregate, then putting effort in this life like practicing or avoiding doing negative actions becomes also pointless, because one won’t experience suffering or the consequence of this negative action in one’s future life because it stops there.
So and then other examples: if again, if the self and the aggregates are the same, then when the self takes conception in the mother’s womb, the aggregate also takes conception in the mother’s womb. So that is false. So the aggregates don’t take conception. So that shows if the self is also the same with aggregates, then the self too doesn’t take conception in the mother’s womb. So then again, because the self is one with the aggregate, because this aggregate is matter, the self or the person too becomes matter. So then if the person or the I itself is matter, then again if the self or the person is matter, then it shows that no one can be reborn in the formless realm.
So if the person or the self is one with the aggregate, then among the aggregates there is the consciousness or the mind, and the person becomes one with that mind, that consciousness or the mind. Then if that mind or the consciousness becomes to be the person… So then if that person is the consciousness, then… and if it’s one with the aggregates, the person can start to feel cold. So to the person, the person can experience cold, say hunger, thirst, and so on, and the mind or the cognition should have the same experience. So because the person becomes one with the mind, so the mind should also experience the same.
So if this non-existent self, if it’s one with the aggregate, then as the aggregate goes through production and cessation, similar to that, the I should also go through that process. So the body is produced and it disintegrates. And how it disintegrates is that it is produced the first moment and in the second moment it is… like the first moment it ceases in the second moment, and then again continues in that way—like the first moment comes and the second moment comes, the first moment has ceased. So then, so that if, what to say, with the consciousness, then it’s also that it connects to the next moment, like coming from the past to this life, and then this moment connects to future life, and then continuously this continuum, that is which continues up to the enlightened state.
So then when our body, when the aggregates, when we die, the aggregate ceases there. The aggregate ceases there, but the person doesn’t cease there; it continues to its next moment. So as the many reasons which have been explained here—and not only that, but applying your own different reasons, how the self, the inherent self, is not the same or one with the aggregate—one should have come to this conclusion that this inherent self is not one with the aggregate. So one should have this conviction that one—the self and the aggregates are not truly one.
So then we will go to the next point. That is the fourth one, that which is free from being many. So with applying many reasons or analysis that one comes to this conclusion that the self, the self is inherently one with the aggregate—when one had that, when one comes to that conclusion… So then if that’s so, again, to inherently exist separately from the aggregate, then as an example, there’s a collection, a group of animals like goat, sheep, and other animals. There’s a group of animals here. So this logical analysis which is also explained, which comes from the text known as the Root of Wisdom.
So this group of animals like goat, sheep, and bull—if there’s a group of these three and if you take out the two, like the goat and the sheep, there’s one still remaining back. So similar to that, one can identify still one there with the aggregate. Also when you like clarify one, like take out one by one the aggregates, you should still, let’s say, we should still be able to find a separate self after taking out all the aggregates. So after taking out all the aggregates one by one, one should be able also—one should be able to single out that self—but this is not possible.
So as another reason which is given: with the aggregate or with the body, it has this characteristic of the body—it should have that of production or birth, aging, and so on, they’re like the abiding, and that is what the characteristic of the body. That is what the body has, and it also should be the same also with the self or the person—it should have this with the self. So the self doesn’t have this characteristic that which the aggregate has, that is birth, aging, and so on. So with the aggregate, it has this characteristic that which it has this feature—which it is born, it becomes sick, and it dies. So it has this nature. And with the self, there is no birth, no aging, no death. The self doesn’t have that nature.
So whatever causes damage to the aggregate, that doesn’t cause damage to the person or the self. So and also, it is not possible that one can point at a self where there’s no aggregate. So if also there are other faults which come here, it is that if the self, this inherently existent self, is completely separate from the aggregates, then also it means that the karma which you have done will dissipate, and the karma which you have never done you will experience. So this mistake or this fault can arise if the self, the inherently existent self, and the aggregates are separate, completely separate.
So then when one comes to this conclusion or the conviction that the self, this inherent self, is not entirely separate from the aggregate—when we come to this conclusion, then that is like, let’s say, the fourth point. So finding, keeping this understanding in the mind, that this inherently existent self is not entirely one with the aggregate and not inherently separate from the aggregate. When one has this understanding or when one has clarification of this, then it means that one has found the view.
So one shouldn’t just entirely depend on the explanation that I give you. So that conviction or understanding should come from one’s own experience. We shall give an analogy or example. If there’s only two places that you can go to. And if it happens that you lost your cow… So not just, I would say, like, not just getting satisfied by others’ explanation saying that the cow is not in those two places. So not only being satisfied with what others said, but oneself going into these two places and and searching for the cow. So one should search for the cow, and one is searching, one should have the clear picture of the cow in one’s mind.
So with giving the clear picture of the cow and searching for the cow in these two places, and if you don’t find… If you don’t find, then you have, let’s say, you have this mind that the cow is not there in these two places. So similar to that, the innate self or the inherent self that appears to us—something solid and clear. Solid, meaning something, let’s say, standing like a solid… So like when we, the way we grasp that self, that self appears to be something solid, and that feels like we can see it through our eyes, or it feels that this I can be also, let’s say, gripped, held.
So that innate I which appears to be, which appears to us, or which… if one… So when one has a clear understanding of that type of that self that appears to one is non-existent, and the experience of that which is not existing—so then that is what is known as finding the final view.
So as up to now, the four points which is the analysis or logical explanations are given, which is that four points—that is, the object which is to be refuted, and then the second point which is pervasion, setting the pervasion or the possibility, and third that is which is free from being one, and free from being separate. So applying this four logical analysis. So applying these analyses and coming to the conclusion that the self that we grasped, that innate self doesn’t exist. One should come to the conclusion that this innate self doesn’t exist. Like that self is completely non-existent, and it is, let’s say, non-existent from the very beginning. So that is the view that we should practice, or that is the view that we should get the understanding of.
So so then… So to analyze that view, to analyze that view—that in the Heart Sūtra there are five levels or five points of analysis are explained. So those five are, what do you say, explained according to the five paths: the path of accumulation, preparation, path of seeing, path of meditation, and path of no more learning.
So this, all the explanations, the way how we analyze or the practice that we do, the way we analyze at this stage, is the way how one practices on the path of accumulation. So on the path of accumulation, the emptiness is analyzed in the way how we do right now. Again and again we analyze, again and again applying these analyses. So like applying the analysis without forgetting the view—it’s just saying that maybe possible that here someone might do that. Say, even if one doesn’t forget the final view, if one has some understanding—if one has understanding of the final view—then on that basis, it’s okay to apply this analysis.
So when one, like, finding the right view—finding the right view is like for those very sharp, intelligent ones, if they do find this view, then they feel very joyful, like finding a very valuable thing. They feel very joyful, like finding a very valuable thing for those very sharp, intelligent ones. So then for those who are of low intelligence, for them, when they do find this unknown view, they experience fear. So even if one experiences fear or one is terrified, you know, there’s no fault. So the fear arises because when one realizes or when one understands that the self is not inherently—one comes to think that the self is not truly existing, and because of that, fear arises.
So in Tibet, it was in Sera, close to Sera in the hill, there was a cave which Lama Tsongkhapa used to meditate. And at that time, that place gave teachings on emptiness. So in that teaching, the master of the name of Sherab Senge, the one who started the Lower Tantric College, that master, I would say, had realized that the final view. Well, just the final view. And when he realized that, he was, I would say, he experienced fear, he was terrified, and he was grabbing his robe around the top.