Audio recorded at Buddha House Adelaide. Transcript auto-generated and AI-corrected; may contain errors.
About this talk. Lama Choedak, a Sakya teacher, introduces the foundational attitude toward life that Buddhism offers—not a dogma but an experiential understanding grounded in how the mind shapes happiness and suffering. He argues that external circumstances are less decisive than our relationship to them: we habitually blame objects and situations, yet the mind’s interpretation is what actually determines whether we suffer or flourish. He then unfolds four universal principles—impermanence, the unsatisfactory nature of conditioned experience, the absence of a fixed self, and the emptiness of inherent existence in phenomena—as the bedrock of Buddhist practice and psychology. These are not philosophical abstractions but keys to transforming attitude, developing resilience, and uncovering what Buddhists call Buddha nature: an inherent clarity and capacity for genuine happiness that does not depend on external gain or loss. Addressed to general audiences curious about how Buddhist understanding applies to ordinary life.
File metadata (for organising)
File: Buddhist Attitude to Life1.mp3
UUID: 9a41f07a-bd05-4321-9e83-2e0de9097123
Teacher: Choedak
Collection: Buddhist Attitude to Life (Choedak)
Recorded at: Buddha House Adelaide
Words: ~11,760
Well, I’d like to welcome you all here tonight and this is the first of a series of two talks given by Lama Choedak and indeed the first of a series of talks, public talks, that Buddha House puts on through the year. Lama Choedak is a member of the Sakya sect, and he underwent twelve years monastic training, which was ended with a three and a half year retreat. And it’s with great pleasure we have him to come over to Adelaide so early in the year. And the format of his talk tonight will be the Buddhist attitude to life, and he’ll be speaking first, and then he’ll be taking questions afterwards. So without any much further ado, Lama Choedak, thank you, and I hope you enjoy the evening.
Thank you. Thank you. Good evening, and I’m very pleased and honored to be able to come here and share on attitude more correctly than a than that of a Buddhist attitude to life. You who might have some common interest in knowing about Buddhism and how one serve as an individual can benefit from developing such an a unique attitude to one’s life. First of all, it it seems that whoever we are, we seem to have our own attitude to our life Despite of our religious background, education, what whatever ideas we have developed throughout the life, we seem to have developed a distinctive attitude to our life.
And is that distinctive attitude that we have developed in our life for the goodness of one’s life and for the fellow members of human beings, Is it relevant to the Buddhist attitude to life or the distinctive attitude that individuals do have, no similarity or what ever with the Buddhist attitude to life. So what I would like to point out is that Buddhist itself the the title Buddhist itself is not dogmatic follower of any religious any kind of a religion or idea. It’s rather a person who who have introspected enough within himself or and have found therefore the universal nature of oneself as well as the spirit of others. So therefore, has actually experienced the dynamic nature of themselves that they quite they could quite easily find in others as well. So developing such an attitude to be able to see oneself not as quite as very different from others requires to face oneself.
But when we have a particular attitude to our life, they seem to be very much influenced by the external things that happen around us or ideas that we have learned from others or environment or social background and upbringing that we have experienced seems to have modeled this attitude to life rather than the unspoken true experience of the true nature ourselves. So therefore, when I say the Buddhist attitude to life, I’m very much speaking an undogmatic, unphilosophical, but a genuine feeling of us as a human being. It doesn’t have to be prejudiced by any ideas or whatsoever. But if we therefore look what is the really common interest of oneself and others in a given life situation ranging from the smallest insect to the most powerful human beings, we could see that the very attitude or aim of anybody who has a life is to be happy and to avoid the problems in life. So given this as a principle for every living being, therefore, living being has developed a technique of bringing this happiness about and avoiding the problems in life.
But however, such method such way of implementing our own methods of bringing happiness hasn’t quite proven to be successful as the history tells us, as our own life tells us. So therefore, what is the real secret means and method to find out how this dynamic nature of us which is wanting to be happy and then free from problems, can actually be evolved. So therefore we have to therefore challenge to the method that we have developed and utilized so far since we were born up to now, say your age of thirty or forty or fifty, all through our experience, various means and methods we have utilized to bring this happiness about and yet have proven to fail. This is not necessarily to make ourselves to be so negative about ourselves how a big shame for me it was to be so unsuccessful so far and to find something new at this late stage. But it rather can be taken as a very progressive stage depending to the attitude that you have as a supporting factor which encourages you to develop this attitude.
So this attitude I’m referring to is very much the mind of ourselves. The mind that that is, I would say, bottled in this human form, the body, in which the mind is dwelling is receiving information through various sense organs. And therefore, the mind is trying to monitor the information that we receive. Whether we receive information through eyes or nose, whatever we receive through whichever sense organs. There seems to be a very predominant factor within us that we are quite not aware what really it is, but yet have tremendous power to evaluate these information.
So have you ever really wondered what really is this predominant quality that is in us, but yet we haven’t quite looked at it? The thing is, the way we have developed our life is so press pressurizing that all our sense organs, including the mind itself, has been induced to engage in external forms such as form, sound, taste, and so forth. But there are various intangible intangible feelings that the mind actually, I would say, inherently experiences whether or not it depends to external sense objects. So therefore, our experiences of happiness that we do seem to rely upon external objects doesn’t prove us that external objects necessarily have the potential of bringing happiness. Whereas there are very similar cases that we thought engaging in those direct perception of this object when we can position our mind in right order, still a lot of experience of happiness and satisfaction can be gained without engaging in tangible objects by our sense organs.
So we seem to therefore understand that there is the indwelling quality of ours that when it is allowed to be utilized to its best potential, there seems to be the every quality of bringing happiness. But yet when it is not maintained properly, no matter what circumstances are there around us to all of our sense organs, there seems to be only substantial causes of problems when the mind is not capable of making the best out of the situation. So given this as a reason of our experience, it’s happy happiness we have experienced or problems that we have experienced, we come to conclusion that whether conditions are right or wrong externally, it seems to be the mind that actually trans that that actually can transform whatsoever is available. So therefore, when I say Buddhist attitude to life, it means that our long developed habit of finding and blaming object externally for bringing not happiness and thus bringing suffering will be diverted internally. Rather, it will not develop a negative attitude to oneself that we used to develop external people or objects and circumstances, but rather it has its own capacity of processing these problems within the mind because mind is already clear enough that problems does not necessarily come from externally.
It seems to be very much the interpretation of one’s own mind. And given being reaching to this awareness of noticing how the mind can be very instrumental, whether bringing happiness or produce suffering. Therefore, that very courage itself becomes very transformative. Whether you notice a lot of limitation within yourself or not, say, if you discover stacks of problems within yourself through this analysis. But this very understanding in gives you a feel of burning those problems or transforming those problems.
So therefore, when you practice such a means of method, whether you practice any particular religion or not, whether you are a specific follower of one religion or you admire all the religions and try to extract the essence and try to practice yourself, whether you are confirmed Christian or Buddhist, that doesn’t really matter. As long as a person has this view that problems or happiness is all how I interpret it myself. Therefore, no external objects and circumstances and people can be, you know, pointed out as we develop habit to be the blaming object or to be an object to be attached so much that it gives us so much. So doing this exercise to our mind allows us neither to be too much over too much, you know, in external objects, either blaming as a cause of suffering or liking so much that you get attached to. No, does engage you to totally withdraw from it, then you don’t have anything to do with the circumstances.
At the same time, it develops its own positive attitude through the circumstances. So this attitude, whoever develops whoever develops well, a Buddhist would call Buddhist attitude. Christian would call might call Christian attitude. I don’t know exactly how their views are. But you see, that is to say that one who can go beyond such such labeling concepts and thereby develop within himself or herself an open attitude.
Say, we have a lot of experiences of problems in our life and how we usually process it and how we really try to transmute it. What kind of antidotes we try to apply? Have they successful? If not, what other antidotes, what other optional antidotes have they applied? Have they proven to be successful?
And, you know, developing this kind of case story of your own experiences dealing with happiness and unhappiness, which the mind is experiencing all the time. So reaching to the point that there is no external object whatsoever to be the blaming object such as the cause of suffering or to be the object that really is a source of happiness. And then but finding the mind which is experiencing these conditions. So therefore, we reach to the point that if the mind is gazed, if the mind is faced by the mind, you will you will not find the mind as an object, but there is no no mind elsewhere other than the mind. So this minding business, Tibetan word is called sempa, means which is able to be which is is able to know its which is able to be aware of itself.
See, the reason circumstances tells us that there are things that can that that can be circumstantially, I would say, contributive in terms of developing a suffering or problem. But other than that, these circumstances have nothing whatsoever potentially to to bring us total suffering or happiness. So it’s like Blade. Blade itself can be potentially dangerous, potentially dangerous, also potentially can be helpful or useful. It depends whether you have the technique or knowledge how to use it properly.
So anything around us are all circumstances. But whether you have awareness or clarity of using the using the situations to the best of its its its ability or not depends on the mind. So this is how Buddhist attitude to life means if you are confronted with the unexpected suffering or problem, that was probably probably that long time you haven’t been unaware of yourself. You were one has been so much pressurized in terms of expecting something externally. And circumstances has proven it so difficult that one is unreceptive.
Even though there are potentials within the circumstances to bring give everything, because of one’s own unreceptivity, the circumstances can’t just become good. Instead, it becomes very negative. Therefore, the circumstances seem to become very provocative to bring suffering rather than happiness. So this we can tell from our own experience as some somebody that we love so much that we seem to think that without this person, I’d be unhappy. I wish I could be with this person, say, whether it was a personal relationship or a spiritual relationship or somebody that you need to, you know, think that is very important for your life.
So there’s that kind of attitude in our mind how important this person is. So we develop this very extrovertedly very extrovertedly as our experience develop. But as nothing is permanent, that object seems to transform changes, you know, in many ways. Therefore, one’s perspective or view of the person also changes to the to the extreme that you once start developing disliking the person. So what is the really happening with the person?
Previously, one was seeing fantastically perfect condition in the person which should actually become more perfect if you have been aware of the circumstances, what really it was. But things tells that this that is quite true, that what circumstances now now forces you to see is something totally different to what it previously was. So therefore, once even though the person was really good, because the one’s extroverted grabbing mind, something grabbing for oneself, it provokes oneself to be dissatisfied. Dissatisfied because there’s a very limited thing the person or object can give even though it’s perfect. It’s not perfect anyway.
So even though it’s perfect temporarily, it can only give as much as it can. You see? Everything has to be moderate. But when you take too much of anything, it becomes too much. Our own food and clothing and everything that we use for our survival, if we if we overuse them, they become causal.
I just noticed when we were driving just down the road in front of the pub, some are fighting. Some of us are trying to bash each other. If we look circumstances like this, people go to enjoy, temporarily at least, and their their enjoyment becomes so provocative so provocative, and they they start they start fighting. You know? So therefore, when we have such an attitude to expect external object, say food or drink or clothing or people or job or climate, whatever, when we expect so much externally, no matter how good that circumstances are, it becomes subject to change because nothing stays as it is.
It becomes change. So our mind, is very fixed idea how the personal circumstances should be to bring happiness, of course, it’s nothing but to suffer its consequences of grabbing or becoming attached to the circumstances. So therefore, the mind which mind which is which can understand how one how one can really be it’s important for oneself to become fully control over the mind and its nature, then becomes less predominant by external conditions. That doesn’t mean that you are not you cannot utilize what conventional circumstances they can offer you for your growth and for your understanding. But yet you have ability to withdraw and to moderate yourself.
Have the sense of moderation, balancing, balancing, harmonizing harmonizing the extremes. Therefore, if we say how what kind of philosophical and religious, you know, basis do we have from the Buddhistic point of view? You say Buddha himself experienced in one very lifetime that too much of a hard working, practicing six years of solitary retreat thinking that mainly asceticism would suffice and help him to gain enlightenment. And he understood that extremes of either living in a palace as a prince or living in the bush thinking that one can become a sage and the or living in a cave depending too much on gross food, he realized that his whole experience of a whole life’s practice became middle way or the or the path that that that harmonizes two extremes. So then this is to say that more correctly from from for one’s own experience, if, say say, I got a lot of experiences of being unhappy in life and probably as much as you have or more than you have.
I can’t speak up. Anyway so this this this experiences very much tells tells me or probably even tell you that your our own experiences tells us that these sufferings and these sufferings when I say suffering, it does not necessarily something you dislike. It could be something you like temporarily so much. That’s called the word suffering doesn’t quite, you know, reveal the meaning of the word Luca, means hard to bear. See, happiness can be hard to bear at times.
Can we? Yeah? Have you had that experience? So so, therefore we should always be have interpretive understanding when you hear the word suffering in Buddhist Buddhist teachings or discussion time. It really doesn’t mean suffering of agony necessarily, suffering of pain necessarily.
It means something that really drives you to the extreme. So therefore, it becomes out of control. Hard to bear. People cry because of happiness. They’ve done that.
Not necessarily because they are unhappy. You see? So this is this is to suggest us that our experiences of unhappiness has mainly depending and mainly relying upon external conditions because we were we became too much extroverted extremes of extroverted. We we we seem to depend upon external objects so much that we we never looked back. Where is this experience, sir?
And how he looks like? Where is he? This kind of added, you know, you know. When what whatever whatever concepts we have for ourselves, say, forget about our own name and and your cultural background and your sex and your education and age. You know?
What kind of difference we have all other than that? Other than these labelings that we think to, you know, condition ourselves to be what we think we are, what is the real difference between you and me and all of us here and all people or others? It’s very intangible. We all willingness to express what that really could be or couldn’t be. So that experience does not develop very easily when we when our mind is strongly, I would say, tangibly engaged with external object.
The mind seems to be very much, I would say, imprisoned with with with various objects. Therefore, it gains very little chance of itself to be. So therefore, although our very principle, as I mentioned at the beginning, to be happy and avoid sufferings and problems, it doesn’t seem to be quite successful because it didn’t really know what is this happiness seeker. Let alone know anything about happiness. One doesn’t even know who really wants happiness.
It’s not just sufficient to say me. What is me? You see, these these are the questions that religious teachings sometimes people when they have some, I would say, some devotion people develop, some kind of hopelessness about this life, some kind of that nothing seems to be quite complete. When people find this, that’s because they haven’t looked at themselves. Themselves.
And therefore, if one discovers this important factor in life and thereby really take the advantage of all the existing religious teachings, whichever comically appears very, you know, meaningful to your life. Doesn’t have to you don’t have to be obliged to accept it as soon as you hear. And Buddhism is no and they’re like that. They hardly know how to say you must must practice Buddhism. They say, look, I think about this, but you better watch out, you know?
You be careful yourself. So so it’s it’s very much that how much you become prepared and understanding about Buddhism or any religion. And then you can make the use of these available teachings and then try to really water this seed of consciousness or mind I’m talking about. And therefore, will be able to understand whether you are rich, whether you are powerful, whether you got a good job, or whether you are happy with the with the circumstances that are surrounding you or not, you seem to you will find there is something in you that is quite important. The outside world is beautiful when you can make it beautiful.
Outside world cannot make anything for us if we cannot make ourselves beautiful, ourselves calm, ourselves peaceful. So therefore, the meditation, the concept of meditation doesn’t have to be, seen as a mystical or instant thing that you have to use and burn incense necessarily, sit in closed room necessarily. It doesn’t really apply, mean that. It means that whenever you whenever you have developed this introspective mind to be aware of yourself, what is best way for you to communicate others physically and mentally and verbally for the goodness of you and others and perhaps the third person and perhaps the rest of the world. When you when you become this sensitive about about utilizing your your awareness, that becomes most important means for you to develop the actual meditation.
For, therefore, this such analytical mind this analytical mind to develop the awareness is called analytical meditation, which is most important to develop the actual meditation that people think would would help you by sitting on a warm cushion. Doesn’t happen easily, you know. Maybe some someone can teach you some very easy formulas of chanting and so forth, and that seems to have certain effect on your mind to to to calm you down at least, you know. But that is not really the aim of meditation at all. Aim of meditation and spirituality is to change your attitude to your life like positive yourself, and everything is okay.
When when we are not quite contented with ourselves, our ability in ourselves, nothing seems to be quite make any sense to us. Cannot give us anything when we are when we are unreceptive ourselves. So such self esteem is very important in Buddhist teachings. We we are not governed by anybody. We are very much the production of our own doing.
So therefore, such an attitude that you that does not cause you, however, to be very, very, you know, to be unsociable person. It doesn’t make you unsociable person at all. There is a danger. You know, some people say that if you become very self centered in such developing such a self esteem by looking at yourself for time, you know, aren’t we aren’t we really ignoring the world in which we share share? And such question arises out of fear because one hasn’t really looked at one’s death at all.
Therefore, it it it produces that fear. But when you really look and really see yourself and I’m talking that that’s that’s the distinctive quality of you that which can go beyond our ordinary labeling to which we are attached to. Our problems always comes from this grasping to the labelings, the eye, and then all the various things that we seem to make up ourselves as a Tibetan. Say if I’m I’m if I come if I have any problems, it it has to mainly come from Tibet because I I think I’m in Tibetan. You see?
If there’s any political problem in my mind, it’s because I think I’m better. You see, other than that, what is the is the is the various views anyway? Views are just views. Like, you see lawn from there. I see ship out there.
You see a car out there. It’s just as beautiful as anyone can see from their door. So it’s very much the various ideas and concepts that we get entangled with, and these seem to be the cause of problems. So when we look talk about looking at ourselves, we’re really looking about the the the we pace ourselves in a way. We are journeying somewhere, but at times, we’re going too quick.
So when you do meditation, it paces your life, in other words. There’s a certain stage that you have to be contented. Although there’s going to be great future, we all look forward. There should be some stage that you have to be contented right now as well. And that that kind of attitude is all Buddhist attitude to life.
When one can’t be develop a transformative even though it is very hard for us to make it very happy and likable, but still when you have transformative attitude to make it best out of the worst conditions, it has to be courageous to make it. Having a positive thought and make a goal to make it good. And such an attitude, a courageous attitude, makes oneself able to transform the worst sick situation. And this actually this kind of teaching enables us, high Buddha, at the very beginning, after so many years of practice, had to necessarily teach at the very beginning saying that suffering is noble, noble truth of suffering. Why did he has to teach suffering is noble when all religious talks about bliss and joy at the very beginning?
He’s so he’s pointing out of the suffering is noble. Means when you look at the real suffering, you will know how to overcome it. When you do not dare to look at the nature of the suffering and problems, that itself is a suffering. You’re not going away from the suffering. That itself is a big problem.
So we become we develop suffering upon suffering because of not being able to have the ability just to penetratively look in the existing suffering. So therefore, when when Buddha used at the very beginning noble truth of suffering, in this he he talks about in this talk, he says, when you don’t do not know the existence of the darkness in the room, there wouldn’t be the invention of light in the first place. So so if we therefore notice by looking at ourselves through this through this understanding, if you notice yourself, there’s sort of a lot of problems within yourself, a lot of problems within ourselves, and no doubt there are. But that is not to be a cause of guilt conscience or make feeling negative and feeling very bad about oneself. That’s all you got, so you feel that you should be happy about it because you can do something with it because that’s all you got.
So darkness. And so the darkness what do you think about darkness? The light that we seem to really appreciate has no basis whatsoever to the light other than other than the resistance. Strong resistance from the darkness only makes light meaningful. Amazing beauty of the contrast.
So when you encounter suffering, usually, we we don’t wanna look at it. We want to try to quit it as quick as possible, and that’s not really, really treating yourself properly. So if there is a problem, don’t get irritated by it. Probably step few few steps backward rather than front and have a careful look at it. And then you will you will notice that how did all of a sudden one is one’s mind is in the middle of a problem.
Say, I’ll give you a very simple example. Say, you’re having a good day. Someone is someone is really insulting you all of a sudden, and your day starts becoming very bad. Okay. And you find yourself in the middle of anger and, you know, frustration.
And how can this person be so rude and ruining my day and so forth? You know? So at that time, if you have this awareness, usually, we don’t develop the awareness, so we really we really aggregates it by insulting back. But when you develop this awareness that your mind is now being insulted and what you’re you’re you’re really having been irritated and agitated, at that stage, if you have a just a few seconds of allowing yourself to look at the situation properly, there were circumstances previously or even few minutes before you were quite happy. But what has now transformed that circumstances into becoming this dislikable condition makes you understand that nothing stays, including the happiness that you will so much enjoy and including this very existing problem that you seem to think I must get rid of as quick as possible.
You don’t get have to. You don’t have to get rid of it as long as you just take it easy. If you think I have to get rid of easy as soon as possible, you’re pumping more problems. You’re pumping more problems. So when you when we just give self a better attitude, how can I deal with this more positively and skillfully, I would rather say, you will develop a very impressive mind toward the acceptance?
And when we do not develop this this this attitude, then we we become very, very emotional. We become darkened by these negativities. Our mind have has no ability whatsoever to be penetrated about the problem and solving the problem. It instead attacks more on behalf of the problem. So this becomes rather self destructive and destructive to others as well.
So therefore, the attitude to life is when you have a problem. Of course, when you have happiness, even that time, you have to have the ability to to look at carefully so that you don’t make it very hard to bear. So when we have this constant awareness to within ourselves, we will develop a technique, technique of being able to make the best out of any given circumstances. As I said, the more when even though if you have only one candlelight, if the room is very, very dark, one candle light can quite display quite a substantial darkness of the room. But if the if the darkness is more compact in a smaller room, the candle light become even more stronger.
The room is very big. It’s not very dark. Not very dark, but it’s still as dark dark enough not to see things. The candlelight alone couldn’t be very big. You know, couldn’t couldn’t dispel as much darkness as the same candle.
So therefore, what we are saying is the more problem you can see in you be positive about problem. That’s what I’m saying. The more problem you see into yourself and and not thinking, I shouldn’t have these problems or I got this problem, but I don’t have that problem. You know, if you start thinking like that, then you’re really not seeing the darkness, the real compact darkness of a small room. You have you have a rather semi darkness in a big room.
You know? You think, oh, this is a problem, but I’m actually okay, know, sort of thing. That this kind of attitude that we we always seem to try to make us feel good and not admitting that we have problems. And even if you know how to admit that you have problems, then you then you feel negative about oneself. So this dark and evil and good concept does not exist in Buddhism.
Only if there’s skillfulness and unskillfulness. Only comes problem comes from unskillfulness and and positivity comes from skillfulness. So if something is unskillful, it’s not ultimately negative. It is transformable. Because, say say, if the real essence of all religious teachings suggest people to practice love or patience.
Okay? You cannot practice patience or love just by saying love. It’s not easy. The more we understand hatred, more we understand, you know, anger and self pity, a negative part of the patient, you know, patience and love, better we will understand love. So therefore, that’s why why Buddha had to, after six years of concentrated meditation and many, many lifetimes hard practice made him to speak so boldly about the sufferings rather than the enlightenment at the beginning.
So therefore, the noble truth of suffering suggests out that the life is has is surrounded by circumstances and when we are not skillful enough, it’s all suffering. But however, he says that when you look at the sufferings with the attitude with the attitude by wanting to know the the real causes that has given the rise given the rise to the existence of suffering, then you will understand then you will understand the more you understand of the suffering, you wouldn’t be thirsty. You wouldn’t be asking for a for a immediate immediate treatment, immediate antidote at all. It’s like a scientist or it’s like, say, the great mountain climbers. You know?
Say say we have a good example of Edmund Hillary or whatever. People like that who work so hard and try to gain something no matter what trouble they got. So after many years of experience of climbing and hardships and those hardships are real path to achievement. Real path to achievement. The more problems he face, more tactics he know about the mountain Himalayan climate.
So better skill can he develop in challenging it. So therefore, in speaking about intangible emotional problems, even though when we have such problems in our mind, when we when we have the courage to investigate internally, we will really develop the half a day that has been going fairly positively all of a sudden became unhappy. That circumstances should not make the rest of the day worse but rather should be able to look that this very given situation should make should be able to transform these various circumstances, the given various circumstances of insult insult to make it rather positive, even better than the morning. Mhmm. Even better than the morning.
A step ahead. You you know this term? Australian term, you know, step ahead. You know? What I’m saying here is say, if we have the basic principle of life being to seek happiness and develop understanding with fellow beings and to avoid suffering of oneself and others, how can how can how can we, as an individual, can can equip ourselves with such a talent and skill to develop so?
And how can we overcome our shortcomings of past experiences? And this is therefore to say that, okay, the attitude you to in us, to our life, and to our experiences seems to be the key role whether you’re going to be skillful or not. The attitude to one’s life, they require few fundamental issues. You know? You just can’t say, take it easy and be positive all the time.
It’s not that easy. You know? It’s not that easy to be positive all the time. So there are there are people very basic important principles, if not all religions, Buddhist teaching says. All the religious teaching might not use the same term, but I would say that they all actually the essence of it, it suggests people to look at these four very instrumental issues.
That is that all phenomena, all conditional phenomena are changeable, impermanent. So if you to develop this attitude I was referring before, you must and you must be able to understand this universal law of impermanence, the changeability of view of circumstances. So therefore, if you do not understand this very important issue, then we have an idea of getting attached to certain circumstances as I was referring before. You one becomes so attached to the morning’s experience that this sudden occurrence of insult doesn’t quite fit in today’s today’s experience sort of thing. But when you understand this law of impermanence, you have a very strong backer backs your mind to tackle the situation no matter how horrendous the situation might be.
Still, you have this strong understanding that things all change, whatever they are. Millionaires become poor. Prime minister end up in the prison. Don’t know what else. Sort of things.
So good morning is not very interesting. Doesn’t it’s not very surprising becoming a quite a a quite a dramatic afternoon. So you can you can see it all around. It is not an idea. It’s not an idea.
You don’t have to accept this comes from Buddhist idea or Christian idea. It’s all happening around you. Buddha never made it up. He wasn’t good at doing so. He just he just he just revealed what was there.
You know? He he was never good at inventing. You know? If would they ever had a had a leg problem, it would be he never invented. It was it he was just revealing the reality.
Everything changes. Look at this. The room was the room here wasn’t wasn’t was was vacant a few hours ago. Now it’s full of energy, lot of eyes looking at each other, hoping that there’s something come out of these circumstances. I don’t know when we go out what will come.
You see all changes all the time, rotating circumstances. That’s very important. To develop this attitude I was referring, you have to know the law of impermanence. And look around. If you have big problems, you think about it, it really helps.
The problem comes in our mind because we can’t accept change. We can’t accept change. Therefore, you have a loss of family members or a break in you know, break of a relationship, loss of a job, nice weather transforming into terrible weather. All these things because we can’t we are not accepting the changes. We’re too attached to one another, and we don’t want the other side.
It’s too unfair to the reality. Reality doesn’t speak for itself but sometimes the humans have to therefore communicate each other about the reality and this is what Buddha has tried to say, tried to teach. And probably his most important message is such that we human beings have to communicate each other what is the reality that is surrounding us and what we are composed of. We are are impermanent. Truly speaking, we all have a name, don’t we?
Sometimes even more than one. If we really try to research when we got this name and what really we are thinking of this name to be me, we would be suggesting ourselves that I am the seven month old boy, so so so, Peter, of six six days old Janet or whatever name you were given. So that name was given in that occasion only. And you’re yet thinking that you got now. So are we saying that you we are Janet.
We are Janet of seven months old or six days old? See, we change all the time. We change all the time. Not of course, not surprising between seven weeks to an hour in the early 30s or 40s, but between the morning and here we change. So if you develop this law of impermanence that I cannot really explain a lot in this very short time.
But if you really look about law of impermanence something in you that will give you a tremendous energy to cope with problems, accept the problems and make the best out of circumstance. And you can develop that attitude I was referring to. That’s very important. And the second thing is every experience is no other than suffering. No other than suffering.
No other than how to bear. Better it that way. So that is even though as I put out at the very beginning that aim of life or principle to end happiness and avoid suffering, but the mere craving for happiness and thinking that one is happy is not happiness. It’s that is that itself being attached to our happy experiences is suffering. Because as we will be now be fully supported by the previous understanding of impermanence that because you have understanding of impermanence so the circumstances changes.
Circumstances changes and therefore happy experiences, happy experiences even if you have is only subject to unhappy. If it is becoming furthering if it is becoming furthering of an experience of happiness, it still is not perfect happiness. If it’s perfect happiness, it wouldn’t change. So so we have to look at these things of our experiences that are hard to bear. So even if we think the reason why we suggest this is not we’re suggesting that there’s no happiness in this lifetime.
There is happiness as long as we can make it. But if we become attached to the happiness experiences then actually we are aggravating ourselves. We are provoking ourselves as I said before to suffer more consequences of its extreme. So if you really use into certain particular weather or used to like particular drink, I’ll tell you a very interesting example, we all have a different taste of drink, say hot drink, cup of tea or coffee or whatever. You know, we seem to be able to like because of our habit where we want to drink.
Drink itself whether with sugar or without sugar or milk doesn’t seem to have any value because each person seems to like differently. So the happiness of drinking a coffee without milk and sugar that someone experience doesn’t have to be experience of others. They cannot even touch it, let alone enjoying it. They have to substitute with some other things. So if we are attached to one thing, thinking this is a happiness, that is not happiness.
That’s what Buddha is trying to say, that this is temporary happiness. Okay. You might you might call it, but he wouldn’t suggest that’s perfect happiness. So therefore, it is directing us. It is directing, pointing his finger that there is a greater happiness that you can aim for.
And this not to really devalue what our happiness experience we have in this life, but rather to evaluate the real, the ultimate happiness on the basis of our experience of temporary happiness when we say all experiences are nothing but suffering. So we’re not really sort of overlooking our samsaric experience or mundane experiences, but we rather try to look at very few mainly what these experiences are all about, what can I make other than the liking of an item? Right now when you experience, what can I make as a furthering to the perfect happiness? So therefore this suggests one step to get attached to any particular circumstances whether you like it or not. And that is of course becoming becomes very strongly supported with understanding of the law of impermanence.
So if you become attached to anything, maybe it’s perfect. You might think it’s perfect. Like like whatever whatever you have in life. Whatever you have that you think is perfect. As long as one is developing this sticky, gluey mind towards these circumstances, it really makes it it breaks.
Maybe only it breaks. It doesn’t really stick at all. It really breaks and fall apart. So therefore, that that ability to come when you know every experience of including the happiness that you have temporarily doesn’t last long. It changes.
So if you can let it go any particular experiences, they all become, I would say, raw material for developing ultimate happiness. And so therefore it doesn’t devalue the given experiences offering necessarily. They help us. They are raw material for us developing enlightened understanding. And these are two most and two universal principles that everyone can actually understand.
It doesn’t have to be any you don’t have to make any philosophical reasons whether life is changing or whether life has problems all the time. You don’t have to question about. You don’t have to back up with any philosophical arguments to make it valid. But two other principles which I feel quite reluctant to really discuss in-depth is self doesn’t exist. One of them is self doesn’t exist.
The self that we seem to work on doesn’t exist. Does this make any sense? See, Buddha is Buddha is tricky in a sense. He says he says that life is impermanent life is full of suffering, then he says, you don’t exist. Don’t worry about them.
You see, there’s always there’s always a message. You know? Teachers always sometimes pointing a different direction to so that we get to other direction. So Buddha say when Buddha says the the self doesn’t exist, it doesn’t mean that we don’t exist. We quite exist.
Comfortably, exist, don’t we? What is it? We don’t exist exist as we appear to be. We exist quite comfortably, quite truly where we are, but we don’t quite exist where we appear ourselves, where we comprehend ourselves. See, as I said to you before, as I told before that we don’t really we are not really this color, sex, education, name.
We are not really these things, are we? The the present cognition of our mind that really establishes us as a person is because of this only. Only upon the basis of this various labeling basis are the body, the name, the sex, the background, the feeling of you, what you are, your background. You know, when people when we introduce to each other, you know, we feel something solid in us. We feel something solid in us.
We try to explain what I am. This Buddha says only what appears you to be, but not what you are. So this is really making you that if if the practice of understanding or impermanence is suffering is still, you know, making it difficult, difficult to understand reality, that is because you are too much on yourself as as if you exist as it appears to you, as if I appear as I seem to exist as I see myself in the mirror. Usually, we we just go in the mirror as we watch in the mirror thinking, oh, I’m okay or I’m dirty or one. You see?
Does it ever strike our mind when we watch in the mirror, am I in one in the mirror, or am I one here, or are these two different? If such a circumstance ever strikes your mind, you are you are getting what Buddha was trying to say. You don’t exist as it appears. That is a questioning very, very mysterious mind that questions the the real ultimate existence of you. That universality I was talking about before.
All the sameness of us. All the sameness us. All the distinctiveness or dissimilarities of us as it appears is what we think we are. But what really Buddha tried to establish what really we are is what is the sameness in all of us. We cannot establish that unless we dematerialize ourselves as an individual and then get to know the real core essence of each of us, the sameness in us.
So what I’m suggesting here to look at this, the self doesn’t exist, suggests the mind to be mind to be be alert enough to be alert enough to investigate what the what really am I? What really am I? So the meditation practices as you calm your physical body down and you become less provocative by other external sense objects to disturb your mind, When you develop that ability to subdue your sensitive sense organs to be influenced by external objects and thereby being able to maintain the prime consciousness into its state of clarity, There you don’t have to substantiate yourself on the basis of this body, on the basis of this label, on the basis of your academic degree, on the basis of the job, whether you’re a father, whether you’re a daughter. You don’t have to think of us. So all these things we usually substantiate ourselves doesn’t make sense, doesn’t become even meaningful, doesn’t doesn’t become necessary when you reach to that meditative level.
That experience where most spiritual teaching talk it is realizing some kind of that, I would say, flavor of that all embracing an emptiness nature in you, all embracing the unsubstantiality of you, yet you exist temporarily. And this understanding is called clarity and emptiness. You are you can experience clearly that very clarity that very clarity that is now I can give you example. You hear me. You hear me.
I see you. I talk to you because you seem to be listening to me. Am I right? You see? That’s clarity.
That’s nothing different from clarity. Okay. We now investigate what is this communication, listening and hearing. Is this substantial or is this empty? Is there any true inherent existence in this hearing?
You can taste now too if you’re if you’re chewing now. You can chew. Don’t have to necessarily hear all the time. So my speaking that you were listening can stop. It changes.
These clear experiences that you go through changes. It stops. It still can reoccur. It doesn’t stop to be stopped all the time. You know?
The beauty is that it is never produced. Don’t think, subtly speaking, when we when I speak you here, it’s not production. There’s no production at all. There’s no production at all. There’s no work involved, ultimately speaking.
Now there is a relative that you have to effortfully listen and I have to speak, you know, putting all energy. Then you will know that there’s a lot of effort required from both of us to do this. This doing according to the selfless nature of us is not a doing at all. It’s just a play game. I will play a big game.
I caught a good number of people. I know they played. You see? So this very activity of communication that we are experiencing is very much the combination of clarity and emptiness. Although it is empty, still it’s clear, clear enough that we our mind can be involved into it.
So to understand the real nature of the selflessness of us as it appears, you really have to be careful when we use the word selflessness. It doesn’t mean you don’t exist at all. You exist quite well, but not quite the way it appears. See? If you say you don’t exist as as as the teaching suggests, then you’re falling in the other extreme that Buddha was very sensitive at the very beginning on the of the nihilism.
You don’t exist at all. So at the same time, you don’t quite exist as you have been grabbing yourself because if you do that, you fall into the external extreme of eternalism. Eternally, there’s a potential, there’s substantial and permanent me that is existing. So when you allow these two to understanding, to filter your mind very carefully, there seems to be expansive space in you to maneuver your mind, to allow your mind to capsulate what really is you, what really is the meaning of us as an individual. And that doesn’t come from philosophical analysis.
You have to meditate. Only through meditation gradually as the gross layers of obscuration become peeled off then they become very then they become easy to experience. Otherwise, we cannot experience this clarity and empty nature of ourselves. Therefore, we are always subject to form, sound, taste, touch, and all these things. Our experiences only seem to depend upon them.
They seem to be the blaming object too when we’re not happy and they seem to do the things that we grab onto. We don’t seem to have any control of our own potential. So this, therefore, the Buddhist teaching as well as in other religious teachings, when you start learning learning, it seems to it seems to make you more of a person, more of a complete person. And you become very, very, I would say, very, very purposeful in your life. The life is not quite the way everyone is directing themselves.
It tends to have its own very purpose. The purpose in your life, the true religious message has a significant effect of changing people’s attitude and purpose in life. That’s because they see this intangible clarity in selfless nature within themselves. That is very dynamic nature, which we call in Buddhist terms called Buddha nature. Buddha nature, the nature of us that can be clear and clearly evolved.
And fourth very important principle in this, This third is a bit difficult, isn’t it? I I I don’t want to go in-depth. Not that it can, you know, it can’t go in-depth. You know? It can’t go in-depth.
It can’t be explained. What I’m trying to do is that’s useless. Okay? So therefore, the fourth very important thing to develop this attitude, big game, I guess. The fourth very important thing is that it’s all phenomena as it appears to us doesn’t exist.
All phenomena that appears around you doesn’t exist as it appears to you. Same as before. Before, if this concept and information makes you too frightened, it’s good. Good Good homies, you know? Why?
Because as we said, this third, fourth principle is very much to back up the third one. The third one, we talk about, oh, I don’t exist as it appears to me. What about all these things? We all seem to be so engaging. This very much these two first, second all these first four main topics I’m referring here now as a very, very essential about entire teaching of Buddhism as well as many other religious teachings, I suppose, becomes the basis or foundation of Buddhist psychology or meditation.
It teaches you the Buddhist teaching of psychology is based upon a special metaphysical teaching on Buddhist teaching called Abhidharma. Abhidharma talks about the clear appearance of phenomena. What really things are? Chö nangpa. Chiu means phenomena.
Mumba means appearance. You know the appearance of the phenomena very clearly. That appearance are empty only. So when we challenge the existence of this temporary cell that we claim to work on to, that really actually, as I said before, that actually disentangles everything very easily. Disentangles everything and can, at the same time, clearly, this room is a room.
Put it that way because we call it. Other than that, it’s empty. Other than that, it’s empty. Similarly, this chair is a chair because we call it. Water is water.
That’s because we only call it. Merely Merely call it. Merely call it, it will be. Don’t call it, it will not be. As simple as that.
As far as the substantiality of external phenomena are concerned, it’s just what we make it. This very much points out in Buddhist philosophical views. There’s an one school called mind only school. It’s very much back. For beginners who try to understand these four principles, especially the third and fourth, very much understand that the mind only school philosophical view, that everything is nothing other than mind, including whatever exists around us.
You see, whatever exists around us. Merely, merely call it to just to make us convenient. What a beautiful relative world. It has no reason whatsoever other than making us convenient. Itself doesn’t want it to substantiate.
This is the beauty of relative truth because that is the that understanding leads you to understand relative ultimate truth. As I said, more easy, easy, easy method that what is the beauty what a beauty of the suffering. It makes you to recover from it. When you look at this way, there is a very important when we look at these four factors, if you have this develop this attitude to life, to ease your life and test to be very positive, you must develop and further your understanding, your contemplation, your meditation, and experience on these four topics. If you seem to be short of information, some emotional breakdown, whatever, you seem to be needing somebody to talk to, that’s because you haven’t looked at this before.
If you go to some other great teachers or friends who seem to have some better understanding than you, they’re only speaking on based upon these four principles. Other than that, maybe they have some experiences that is more meaningful to you to correlate. But these four principles are the only fabric of making the life much easier relatively and thus become very, very leading factor for your spiritual upliftment. So if you look at our life, if you have a big problem that you seem to you know, psychologically you really are you have a big problem. Okay?
Although practically you have to do something about it without, you know, saying, you know, just thinking it over all the time. You still have to do something about it. But the attitude seems to be very important. Then it becomes very easy to accept or or continue or reject. Very easy.
You can let go. You can make it very easy because you edit if you can change the attitude. And that whether you can change the attitude comfortably and positively or caringly or embracing with it is you are able or not is how deeply you looked at these important factors. And there was a lot of argument in Buddhist teachers how can one define to be Buddhist. The ones most others say you have to go refuge in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.
Buddha, the teaching, the teacher who has shown the path for followers and his teaching and of course his teaching involved these factors. But that’s becoming very dogmatic to become a Buddhist you have to follow the refuge in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. But you don’t quite become good Buddhist at all just merely by accepting these three as refuge and then forget about these four principles they’re talking about. So more deep thinkers of Buddhist teacher says, whether you have taken refuge in Buddha or not, a ceremonial sense, he says that as long as you accept this accept and understand experientially and try to make them sense to you and others to all these factors and you really become not a believer who really understands these four, then you are a real Buddhist. You don’t have to be made up again.
You don’t have to go through ceremony. Yes, temporarily for your mainly for the speeding of your spiritual practices and especially your devotional practices and make yourself more closer to the teachings and practitioners, you need to go for the formal refuge. Formal going for refuge, as I mentioned, taking refuge in the Buddha, the teacher, Dharma is teaching, and Sangha is followers and practitioners. Then this person has no doubt or difficulty at all in taking refuge. So ceremony one will become very easy to understand it.
But if he or she has gone for refuge and gone for refuge into Buddha, Dharma, Sangha, claim them self to be born Buddhist or whatever, but nothing having the slightest no ability whatsoever to cope and transform their problems with the consideration of this principle, say, I’m sorry, no Buddhist. So no Buddhist or nowhere near any spiritual path. Because spiritual path means it has to have something more than material things give us. There should be inner satisfaction. That’s spirituality.
Inner satisfaction, temporarily and ultimately. So when you have a problem, your money doesn’t solve the problem. It doesn’t solve the problem. Your friend doesn’t solve the problem. Doctor cannot solve the problem.
Even if they dig out some of the hole in, it doesn’t solve the problem. Whatever we do doesn’t solve the problem. But there’s only one way of solving the long ranging long range long run suffering or problem, chronic diseases of us. The real worst disease is only through spiritual medication. And these four are the real recipes, recipes of spirituality.
And that’s called tawa katpa shi, means four great seals of the right view. Seals means you put a seal. If you write a letter, you put your signature. That’s it. It can be unchangeable.
Then you have to put another signature if you really have to check. You see? These four are laws. Nobody made them up. These are where it is.
And as long as a person sees the way it is, then they where it is and then follow themselves, adapt their life accordingly, that is actually, as I said, realizing their own Buddha nature. So it was overall, the whole action was just to deprogram yourself. Not to go ahead. There’s nowhere to go. It’s just to know what you have.
And this process is but yet temporarily we individually we have we are very much a component of our coming factors, coming actions of many, many lifetimes. Look at the distinctive appearance, the features of us here and our attitude and our lifestyle and our possessions. We all are very different. We are very much a collection of our own do ings. Very appearance of the body, although interdependently related, very much to the consciousness that has been working so many lifetimes.
But when yet one technique that is universal, you know, correlated to these principles I was referring to, we the very distinct appearance of us can be made, can be unified. I’m saying that temporarily we are all consciousness, individual consciousness, consciousness are bottled in this appearance. Asian, German, Tibetan, Nepali, I don’t know, African, you call them. you know, all in the end. Okay?
Bottled in different ways and label them label them. But the real nature of all of us, the Buddha nature I’m referring to, the real nature of all of us are nothing different from each other. Like the space in this room, like the bottle, like the space in this glass, like the space in an eye body, when this wall is knocked off, when this glass is knocked off, the actual nature of the space is neither increased nor decreased. Is that? Similarly, when the actual awakening is occurred, happens, we didn’t do it at all.
We didn’t have to do it in the first place. Only we had we think we have done is just deprogramming ourselves, only breaking the walls. So the barriers that we are interpreting, the conceptual patterns, karma, one has to accumulate. These are all filled up by this realization of the truth. I’m going too far now.
I will stop here. Yes. When I say whether you when you are happy with a cup of tea, say you got a habit of liking tea the way you wanted to. There are times, unfortunately, problem of not being able to able to accept what is available, but at the same time, it becomes a cause of problem to others. They cannot provide you what they like.
So they feel very, very unhappy about about what they can do. So therefore, when we develop this attitude in us, not so much you have to think that when you’re having when you usually like cup of tea where you want it, oh, I’m happy with it and but rather you have to have this understanding that if you are confronted with the situation that you have to have a drink that you quite do not like it, quite do not like it. You may very comfortably refuse in a positive way. But if you don’t have developed this attitude, you your refusal becomes the cause of problem to others. So when you have a very positive attitude about it, you will either don’t care about your and will quite comfortably drink and yet being able to accept and like it and thereby wouldn’t cause any problem to other people.
And therefore, you have anything given situation is the raw material for you. So your mind has become quite powerful enough to be able to accept the situation or even not by drinking. Still you become you have developed a technique of still being able to communicate to others. So that is to say, whatever circumstances comes us, either opposite to our liking or not, we still have to have the ability to make the raw material or given situation in something that is that can yet become positively productive in one’s attitude. Yes.
Very much we’re not here, we’re not talking really very much at all in a tangible adaptation or adjustment. We are very much talking about the attitude, which is not so much of an adjusting, oh, now I’m confronted with this, what I should do. You don’t become at all slightly even aware that this is something that you didn’t expect when you have, I would say, developed this attitude right from the very beginning, right from the very beginning when you have developed it. So it becomes a flow of, I would say, stream. Flow of stream.
It doesn’t become suddenly you come into a place and then you have to sort of reposition yourself. Of course, as a beginner, we might have to do that. We face all the things. But when you become quite well acquainted with it with it, it becomes rather rather a stream of of quality that flows in you. Thereby everything, everything what has happened becomes very like fire.
Fire burns everything. Fire burns everything. It doesn’t sort of it might take some longer time to burn other things. But it’s fire nature of fire is constant burning. So the attitude is something that is flowing all the time with the help of your meditation and understanding and practice and your view.
Then it becomes as you become very experienced, it becomes a flow and doesn’t become temporarily, you have to adjust it all of a sudden. It doesn’t it’s not a very tangible example at all. It is very much your attitude. Whether there is a bit, you know, contrasting that is happening here, here now or not, you still will be quite acquainted with this flow. This is what you have to feel, feeling homeliness of this feeling in you all the time.
That’s more important rather than being prepared to how I can, you know, how I can really adjust to the new situation. You know, not becoming as as waiting for an enemy to to attack. Rather, you become that enemies are always in your mind. You don’t have to wait to them to attack you. It’s all in my mind.
So that kind of sense of flow of awareness makes makes oh, adjusted adjustment is that is becoming that adjustment. Sudden coming togetherness of that situation becomes just the extinction of that. But rather taking adjustment and then extinguishing it. So we are talking about differences about progression. As a beginner, yes, they recall a lot of adjustment.
But as we become very well acquainted with this idea, it becomes rather a flow of energy in you that you will be able to transmute simultaneously and not becoming very much disturbed by that circumstance at all. What to get what you want, okay? Temporarily, yes. But ultimately, no. Ultimately.
Because what you get what you want to get what you want is also subject to change. So Buddhistically speaking, that is not really happening. Happiness. That’s our noble truth of suffering. That’s the noble truth of suffering.
That’s because subject to change. So we are not really talking about any happiness whatsoever we have to be happiness in the ultimate sense. But when you develop this understanding, happiness is what you gain. Okay? But then, then what you gain has to go.
What are you going to do then? Then you will suffer. It’s substantial consequences. As much as you gain, you will lose. So therefore, the more you have happiness through gaining, more you will have suffering when you lose it.
So that’s caused suffering of change. Even though temporarily you seem to gain what you want, it still doesn’t last. So that’s all temporary happiness. But if you develop this positive attitude to these as a raw material for your understanding, then our clinging and craving for this temporary happiness doesn’t become very strong and energetic as it is now. Rather it has an ability to penetrate and look in it so that we become very, very able enough not to be ruled by the experience or object or the circumstance because we rather quite become still become very able to see with awareness.
So the distinction between temporary happiness and ultimate happiness has to be made when we discuss the subject of happiness in both these two terms. Very important. We are all happy today, but we must let go. Otherwise, everything you gain, if we really look at our life, the reason why most people have difficulty of accepting debt is because when they are born, when they have worked so hard through their life, many years of achievement seems to let go. So all the years that you thought you had made up and worked to gain has to go away.
So when when a practitioner a practitioner who practices all the time spiritually and thereby doesn’t have any material expectations of gain, so for him, death is quite uncomfortable. He he rather look forward. He would rather be surprised that it doesn’t occur today. The attitude. So the gaining not really happiness because that has to go one day.
That’s ultimately speaking. Thank you. Well, so it depends how things are defined. We as a Buddhist feel a bit reluctant to use the word soul and God because most people who use these in religious terms use rather concrete matters, you know, something very permanent. Whereas we, even our own nature consciousness, stream of flow changes.
The Buddha nature, Buddha nature itself in ultimate enlightened sense is beyond change and unchanged. But at the meantime, we’re becoming, I would say, covered with obscuration of our department. This Buddha nature or the real ultimate essence or result of this realization through the practice itself doesn’t yet become subject, as I said, subject to a cause. It doesn’t become, as I said, it doesn’t become a result of anything. It was.
You just became to know it. You just came to be aware, develop the awareness of its existence and its nature rather than reaching a high, you know, top of the summit summit of enlightenment and then having a very, you know, ugly saṃsāra down there that you have discarded. You know? So it’s not a stage that you reach and then having something contrasting factor to see. So that omniscient mind is beyond dualism, beyond dualism, beyond meditation and non med non meditation, beyond good and bad, beyond enlightened and unenlightened for the enlightened point of mind.
But then enlightened beings have the point of view of our point of view. See what I mean? So enlightened beings from their point of view, they don’t go anywhere. They have no concept. They have no concept.